Right to repair

[Jeff Liebermann]

This might be of interest. A farmers group is leading a movement to
require manufacturers to supply service information, parts, etc. So,
far, legeslation has been introduced in 6 states. Kansas, Mass,
Minnesota, Nebraska, New York, and Wyoming so far. I don't know much
more than what I've read about it:
<https://repair.org>
<http://modernfarmer.com/2016/07/right-to-repair/>
<https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/farmers-right-to-repair>
<http://ifixit.org/right>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:11:07 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

This might be of interest. A farmers group is leading a movement to
require manufacturers to supply service information, parts, etc. So,
far, legeslation has been introduced in 6 states. Kansas, Mass,
Minnesota, Nebraska, New York, and Wyoming so far. I don't know much
more than what I've read about it:
https://repair.org
http://modernfarmer.com/2016/07/right-to-repair/
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/farmers-right-to-repair
http://ifixit.org/right

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

I think it will ultimately die out. It's a great idea, but manufacturers will say it's a safety issue or a proprietary issue.

In any case, it won't affect lower cost electronics. That will never happen.

 

This idea has been proposed a number of times and is most often seen in relation to vehicles. At issue is the need to go to a dealer to get some things fixed. Independent service providers don't have access to the computer diagnosis or update software and thus can not fix everything. I have seen this from both sides (I have provided service as a dealer as well as independently). Manufacturers charge service companies money for access to proprietary information. This guarantees some level of work for that provider at least for that manufacturer's product. If all were allowed access, then there would be little to differentiate service providers. Also, who would provide warranty service? Given what little is paid for service under warranty, at least having access to the service information will hopefully create more non-warranty work.

Dan

 

[whit3rd]

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 11:47:27 AM UTC-8, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:11:07 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
This might be of interest. A farmers group is leading a movement to
require manufacturers to supply service information, parts, etc.

I think it will ultimately die out. It's a great idea, but manufacturers will say it's a safety issue or a proprietary issue.

So? Let 'em document a safety issue. Iindustrial safety is NOT a closed-book issue,
it's a matter of public interest.
Sponsor a reverse-engineering session on any proprietary technology (and
publish everything). Customers, unlike employees, are not barred from disclosure.

The real issue, unfortunately, is that 'require to supply parts' is only possible if the
company and its suppliers exist unchanged as long as the goods do. Workarounds
like last-time-buy are prohibitively expensive in some
states (where inventory is taxed annually).

No current production line can replicate a 30-year-old engine computer.

 

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 7:45:07 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:

On 2017/02/02 3:06 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 11:47:27 AM UTC-8, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:11:07 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
This might be of interest. A farmers group is leading a movement to
require manufacturers to supply service information, parts, etc.

I think it will ultimately die out. It's a great idea, but manufacturers will say it's a safety issue or a proprietary issue.

So? Let 'em document a safety issue. Iindustrial safety is NOT a closed-book issue,
it's a matter of public interest.
Sponsor a reverse-engineering session on any proprietary technology (and
publish everything). Customers, unlike employees, are not barred from disclosure.
...

No current production line can replicate a 30-year-old engine computer.


I would disagree with your last statement.

If there is sufficient demand then some bright person will MAKE a
replacement computer for the 30 year old machine. In my industry
(pinball and other coin-op games) there are multiple suppliers of
circuit boards and computers for pinball games as far back as the early
70s. I am working on a replacement PCB for a 1975 motherboard that used
three 6530s (Rockwell) with a FPGA.

John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

If anything, it might be easier to emulate an early car computer than anything, assuming the plan is functionality not originality. The bigger problem would be the relatively low tech coil and solenoid drivers.

 

[whit3rd]

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 7:30:47 PM UTC-8, pedro wrote:

On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 15:06:30 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com
wrote:

Sponsor a reverse-engineering session on any proprietary technology (and
publish everything). Customers, unlike employees, are not barred from disclosure.

I have several pieces of equipment where the manufacturer's included
software licence statement *forbids* R/E and or disclosure of any
contents thereof.

The only way to test that in a jurisdiction is to have deeper pockets.

The proposed legislation would supersede that 'requirement' by making it
illegal. At least, it'd be illegal within the jurisdiction of the law, but it'd be very
silly outside that jurisdiction, once publication has occurred.

 

You certainly know where to find those big cans of worms. This goes alot deeper. The fact is that you own nothing, you are just a holder in good conduct.

When you think you buy a car, you are simply buying a title to that car. The actual proof of ownership is called a Manufacturer's Statement Of Origin. The state in which you live takes that, records ad then destroys it and issues you a certificate of title or similar instrument which is nothing but a license. The last state that would issue license plates on an MSO IIRC was Tennessee and I am pretty sure they stopped.

The same thing applies to real estate. The Constitution says property cannot be taken without compensation, but they can take it for taxes as easily as your Mother could take a toy away from you when you are five years old. Why ? Because they already owned it. You pay for it, they own it just like your car. In fact, the network of laws written from the Trading With The Enemy Act all the way to the US bankruptcy papers decades ago make it clear that you are actually property and property cannot own property. Also realize that your 1040 form every year is an actual contract with a mandatory oath.. Nothing else, a contract. That's why 80 % of the people who beat the IRS do not file. But that is a different subject.

We are on the losing ed of this, and as far as I am concerned the older the better. My next car will have no ECM at all in it. Ever see the hydraulic schematic for a THM400 transmission ? That thing is a hydraulic analog computer. But you can put a shift kit in it. Actually I frown o any modifications to a THM400 because it is the last thing they designed right.

I do not need the internet on my phone. I do not need a user configurable dashboard on my car or tractor or any other damn thing. They shove this shit down your throat because that is what they have. You buy it or do without.

Don't even get me started on any software EULAs. They all say the same thing. We own everything, you o wn nothing. If our software destroys your hardware you are out of luck. If you decompile or otherwise modify our software we can sue you and take everything we own from you. That means everything folks.

How to fight back ? Well eventually we have to get the young into it, but don't buy anything. The only thing they understand is money. When they see you fitting a custom molded housing or something on a 1964 Oliver farm tractor rather than buying the new John Deere with their easy credit terms, they might take note. And 3D printing will help in some things.

And yes, you CAN replicate a 1980s ECM for a car. The O2 sensor controls the timing and mixture, the vacuum or MAF sensor controls the mixture and timing, with those priorities. As long as you can get a pulse from the cam, sometimes even just the crank, you can make any engine run. Twelve volts to the injectors, ground the other side to fire. Predetermined values for startup until it hits 400 RPM.

John P was quite the character. Tells me, about a car that keeps killing the battery and we were talking 1970s cars here, he says "Get you a wire cutters and get under the dash and cut every damn wire down there except for the headlights". Sounds pretty flippant but that might be our last resort.

Now TVs, people are just going to have to do without them. Idiots threw out all their old CRT TVs and now are caught in a trap. And we tried. This was our life in business, and now we're dead.

We considered many options, both well monied and not. We found out that it is a losing game. We could go out and buy TVs new, exact same model number, serial numbers the same up to the last five characters and NOT ONE SINGLE PART FITS. Not even the god damn speakers !

Shopjimmy made great strides, but we were the guinea pigs. I proved one of their parts was bad and that it had exactly the same problem as the one that came out. It was a Tcon and it was clipping the video. The main had already been tried so it was the Tcon or the screen itself, and there is no way a screen fault would cause that symptom uniformly on the screen. So we had problems even testing the parts, even to board level. Luckily I found you actually could put a scope on the LVDS and got familiar with the waveforms in a plasma TV. Bought me a couple more years in the business but in the end I was selling buggy whips.

If we could get the government to do it, and believe me Trump is the most likely to do it, would be to require a warranty on all goods, commensurate with cost. you got a $500 smartphone you want to sell here ? Four year warranty and eight parts and supplies for the ASCs. Twenty grand car or tractor ? Twenty years. Thousand dollar plasma, six year warranty, and twelve for the ASCs.

And, the sum total of all the parts needed to build the unit cannot exceed double the MSRP.

Bottom line, many liberals see Trump as too brash and too whatever, but in some ways he might get something done. This country has been open season on malicious companies across the world for too too long. Really, IMO that tariff for the Mexicans should not be 20 %, it should be more like 75 %.

Offshoring of work in the US is taking advantage of echange rates and costs of living in other countries. In China, think they are living in grass huts ? Nope. They are driving their air conditioned cars to work on roads better than ours and getting better heath care than we are. They EXECUTED the head of their FDA for what the head of the US FDA does every day. Prescription drugs kill more people than illegal drugs in this country, in China, SEVEN PEOPLE died and they executed the guy.

And if you live near fracking and have kidney problems, your doctor is under a gag order not to discuss with you how those fracking chemicals destroy your kidneys and therefore renal function. (Pennsylvania, Dr. Rodriguez) you didn't think they just pumped water down there now did you ? But the formula is secret. Know why ? /because if it wasn't secret there would be a shit ton of lawsuits against the oil companies.

And they built that piece of shit in the golf that makes sure our shrimp is nicely greased up. They build pipelines that leak all the time and give that Native tribe up there ammunition to garner public support to shut down those pipelines that we desperately need. What are they making these pipelines out of, paper mache' ? Trump should say "Have your pipelines, but one drop of oil leaked is a million dollar fine and every gallon is a million dollar fine. that should pretty much please everyone because their bottom line cannot absorb that and it would put them out of business.

But the bottom liner is that the government is all for business ad doesn't give a shit about us whatsoever, until election day. now we got a half nuts loose cannon in there who might get something done.

I say we make every effort to use this time wisely.

 

>"I think it will ultimately die out. It's a great idea, but manufacturers will say it's a safety issue or a proprietary issue."

Then we adopt the Jewish idea of a boycott. Let's see them bribe the government with no money. HAHAHAHAHA.

 

[John Robertson]

On 2017/02/02 3:06 PM, whit3rd wrote:

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 11:47:27 AM UTC-8, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:11:07 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
This might be of interest. A farmers group is leading a movement to
require manufacturers to supply service information, parts, etc.

I think it will ultimately die out. It's a great idea, but manufacturers will say it's a safety issue or a proprietary issue.

So? Let 'em document a safety issue. Iindustrial safety is NOT a closed-book issue,
it's a matter of public interest.
Sponsor a reverse-engineering session on any proprietary technology (and
publish everything). Customers, unlike employees, are not barred from disclosure.
...

No current production line can replicate a 30-year-old engine computer.

I would disagree with your last statement.

If there is sufficient demand then some bright person will MAKE a
replacement computer for the 30 year old machine. In my industry
(pinball and other coin-op games) there are multiple suppliers of
circuit boards and computers for pinball games as far back as the early
70s. I am working on a replacement PCB for a 1975 motherboard that used
three 6530s (Rockwell) with a FPGA.

John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

 

>"
I have several pieces of equipment where the manufacturer's included
software licence statement *forbids* R/E and or disclosure of any
contents thereof. "

Some slick lawyer might find a way to break that. Like a no competition clause in an employment agreement. There has to be a geographical or other area specified and a time limit or the courts will usually not enforce it.

Say I have a 15 year old Tek scope that ruins XP. I will hire school kids in China to decompile and fix the software as I see fit. When they stopped support they terminated whatever contracts they may have had with me, and I double dog dare them to sue me. Let's air ALL the dirty laundry, and I will make it a point to have live TV coverage of the whole trial as well as summaries on the evening news every night, because we are not alone. Look at al the people who have tried to eek out a living helping the repair industry.. From Howard W. Sams reverse engineering to Asti making aftermarket transformers etc.

You know, they might put that revolution sensor in an engine where you really can't get to it, but you can drill a hole in the frikken valve cover and pick up a pulse off of one of the valves. that gives you phase as well as which side is firing, which doesn't always matter because half of the older designs fired two injectors and plugs at once and did not need a cam pulse at all. Hell some of the late 1980s cars we might be able to make better than new. Problem is the bodies rust out so we need good welders. Let's ho9pe the digitalennials don't start fucking with them or we'll have welders just using straight house current with a ballast like we used to in the old days.

Wanna see some real USian ingenuity ? Throw me a couple of million. I mean it. Know what you'll see ? Computers that can run any engine, and later transmission. (my buddy the engineer always buys stick shift cars, I actually wondered if he could even drive an automatic for a while but then eventually I saw him do it...)

You'll see these car bodies from the 1990s fixed, new ECMs and they pass emissions (pre OBD2). And last but not least, IF you select by switch, the lights go on immediately when you ope the doors and they go off imediately when you close the doors. The lights do not go on or off without your command.. And sorry, if you want the driver window all the way down you have to hold the button. And in any case those plastic tapes they use on the window regulators will be replaced by steel ones.

With all that, your great Grandson can drive your Buick Roadmaster until he is 140 years old. I always wanted one of those but they were too expensive and now they are too old. They had the old style headlight switch, the kind you pull out ! There were words in English, like "WIPER", "LIGHTS" and so forth instead of these icons. In the old windows I usually used File Manager. I do not need little pictures I know how to read. Take your icons and stick them where they are sure not to get a sunburn.

 

[John Robertson]

On 2017/02/02 5:15 PM, ohger1s@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 7:45:07 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:
On 2017/02/02 3:06 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 11:47:27 AM UTC-8, ohg...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 2:11:07 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
This might be of interest. A farmers group is leading a movement to
require manufacturers to supply service information, parts, etc.

I think it will ultimately die out. It's a great idea, but manufacturers will say it's a safety issue or a proprietary issue.

So? Let 'em document a safety issue. Iindustrial safety is NOT a closed-book issue,
it's a matter of public interest.
Sponsor a reverse-engineering session on any proprietary technology (and
publish everything). Customers, unlike employees, are not barred from disclosure.
...

No current production line can replicate a 30-year-old engine computer.


I would disagree with your last statement.

If there is sufficient demand then some bright person will MAKE a
replacement computer for the 30 year old machine. In my industry
(pinball and other coin-op games) there are multiple suppliers of
circuit boards and computers for pinball games as far back as the early
70s. I am working on a replacement PCB for a 1975 motherboard that used
three 6530s (Rockwell) with a FPGA.

John :-#)#

If anything, it might be easier to emulate an early car computer than anything, assuming the plan is functionality not originality. The bigger problem would be the relatively low tech coil and solenoid drivers.

Pinball games use lots of low-tech coils...and there are many
replacement driver boards out there.

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

 

[pedro]

On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 15:06:30 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

Sponsor a reverse-engineering session on any proprietary technology (and
publish everything). Customers, unlike employees, are not barred from disclosure.

I have several pieces of equipment where the manufacturer's included
software licence statement *forbids* R/E and or disclosure of any
contents thereof.

The only way to test that in a jurisdiction is to have deeper pockets.

 

[Jon Elson]

John Robertson wrote:

If there is sufficient demand then some bright person will MAKE a
replacement computer for the 30 year old machine. In my industry
(pinball and other coin-op games) there are multiple suppliers of
circuit boards and computers for pinball games as far back as the early
70s. I am working on a replacement PCB for a 1975 motherboard that used
three 6530s (Rockwell) with a FPGA.

The problem is that anything to do with the emission control system has to
be certified to not alter the emissions of the car. Hmmm, maybe won't
matter a lot on a 30 year old car (if it even HAD a computer).
But, making after market replacement parts for any part of the emissions
system has to go through a lot more than somebody making a wiper motor or a
fender.

Jon

 

.."The problem is that anything to do with the emission control system has to
be certified to not alter the emissions of the car. Hmmm, maybe won't
matter a lot on a 30 year old car (if it even HAD a computer).
But, making after market replacement parts for any part of the emissions
system has to go through a lot more than somebody making a wiper motor or a
fender. "

Many 30 year old cars had computers. They were basic, just controlled fuel mixture and ignition timing. Actually, after studying them a bit I find that it almost doesn't matter how many cylinders there are except for idle speed. Later one fire the injectors in pairs or possibly single at a time in which case you need a cam pulse to know what cylinder you're on. Generally a ring counter and a PWM can do the ignition, and the old TBFI doesn't care. When the MPFI came out it mattered and it matters in those cars that have direct cylinder injection.

The newer ones with the transmission controlled electronically present a new challenge but it can always be turned into and "auto-stick" where you shift but it is done with hydraulic valves. One of the problems with that is the newer transmissions are too cheap and frequently lack a one way clutch for the lower forward speeds, this means that downshifing must be done at the right RPM or there is a big objectionable clunk.

But it can be done. What can't be done with any realistic expectations is to drive a plasma panel, or even an LCD panel. Someone could rig up a backlight if that happens to fail and doesn't send the thing into knipshits and subsequent shutdown. (to protect you from the mercury of course, in their lead free product)

In any event, in the end the manufacturers win, unless we speak with the loudest voices possible. It takes some balls and staying out of debt. You go tell the John Deere dealer you will not be buying as new unrepairable item and since your old item is not repairable your crop will rot. Also mention that their founder would likely be rolling over in his grave. And then, we take every Tektroix scope that runs Windows and then it crashed and is no longer supported and take it to Oregon and throw it through the biggest piece of plate glass on their building. Take your fucking junk back. This is not a smartphone, get it ? I am not a 14 year old who needs the latest technology, and BTW, get off your slimey skinflint asses and build us a CRO again.. At least one model. Either non-sampling or can be switched to non-sampling. I want to slow down the sweep and see the green dot go across the screen.. that is what scopes do.

I, for one, am sick of this shit.

Know what Trump can do ? Somehow make it so when something is not repairable due to parts cost or non-0availability of parts or information, the company must take it back and pay for environmentally proper disposal.

Through the nose. Oh there's mercury in there, twenty bucks. Nickel in that stainless steel ? Ten bucks, add that shit up until it is more than what the thing cost new.

I hope Trump starts drinking vodka with Putin and grows a pair. Fuck you that you bestow your factory and or dealerships on the US, you PAY for the privilege to do business here, you got it fleagle ? You don't like our taxes you go peddle your junk in fucking Indonesia or some shit because you are banned from this market. We will make our own.

no factories here, no stores here. real simple like that, or can be refined.. Keep your junk. And BTW, that wheat you feed your hogs to sell that fat laden pork to USians and make us sick ? It has just doubled in price, and there is now a tariff on hog bellies that will make speculators run for the bathroom.

You wanna see hoe to fix the economy ? Well it takes someone ab0ut twice as radical as Trump. and he pissed off Australia. Know what ? I sat there earlier trying to give a fuck less but I just could not do it. They are totally irrelevant.

 

Oops, the part I forgot to putt in :

Most cars that old are exempt, or they only have to pass tailpipe emissions. We can do that. It is the newer ones that if the god damn glove box light is out it fails that are at issue here.

 

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 2/3/2017 3:11 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

This might be of interest. A farmers group is leading a movement to
require manufacturers to supply service information, parts, etc. So,
far, legeslation has been introduced in 6 states. Kansas, Mass,
Minnesota, Nebraska, New York, and Wyoming so far. I don't know much
more than what I've read about it:

Only big equipment can be repaired easily? Not with chips.

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

 

[Jon Elson]

jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

(my buddy the engineer always buys stick shift cars, I
actually wondered if he could even drive an automatic for a while but then
eventually I saw him do it...)

Yeah, but he keeps stomping his left foot on the floor where the clutch
pedal is SUPPOSED to be every time he come up to a light or stop sign.
Don't ask how I know about this - 30 years of primarily driving stick.

There were words in English, like "WIPER",
"LIGHTS" and so forth instead of these icons. In the old windows I usually
used File Manager. I do not need little pictures I know how to read. Take
your icons and stick them where they are sure not to get a sunburn.

Yup, really, how much extra would it cost to have the various panel
appliques made up in the language for where the car is delivered?

Some of these stalks by the steering wheel have so many functions now,
there's up-down, pull-push, press the end, turn the end, little slider
switches, and on and on...

Jon

 

[Jon Elson]

jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

Don't even get me started on any software EULAs. They all say the same
thing. We own everything, you o wn nothing. If our software destroys your
hardware you are out of luck. If you decompile or otherwise modify our
software we can sue you and take everything we own from you. That means
everything folks.

Ummm, try running Linux! No EULA at all, you are ENCOURAGED to browse the
source code. The only restriction is you can't improve it and then sell it
woithout releasing the source code. The only licensed software I use
anymore is an electronic CAD package and the annual tax program. Everything
else I do is using open source apps under Linux.

Jon

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 11:49:51 -0600, Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com>
wrote:

jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

(my buddy the engineer always buys stick shift cars, I
actually wondered if he could even drive an automatic for a while but then
eventually I saw him do it...)

Yeah, but he keeps stomping his left foot on the floor where the clutch
pedal is SUPPOSED to be every time he come up to a light or stop sign.
Don't ask how I know about this - 30 years of primarily driving stick.

I are an engineer (of sorts). All my vehicles have had stick shifts
since about 1970. In the past, it was because stick shifts got better
gas mileage, and were cheaper. I even converted one old vehicle from
automatic to manual (because the junk yard wanted less for the manual
than a rebuild would have cost me for the automatic). Today, it's
purely psychological and maybe a little macho. It doesn't feel like
I'm driving the vehicle unless I control the gearing. Having it done
automatically makes me feel more like I'm a passenger than a driver.
After price, a manual transmission was a mandatory requirement for my
last vehicle. I even overpaid the dealer for it as I knew they were
getting scarce and difficult to find.

And yes, I have problems driving an automatic, try to shift in an
automatic, and find my left foot wandering around looking for the
clutch pedal. I don't know how I'll do with a self-driving car.
Probably badly.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 02/03/2017 01:12 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 11:49:51 -0600, Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com
wrote:

jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

(my buddy the engineer always buys stick shift cars, I
actually wondered if he could even drive an automatic for a while but then
eventually I saw him do it...)

Yeah, but he keeps stomping his left foot on the floor where the clutch
pedal is SUPPOSED to be every time he come up to a light or stop sign.
Don't ask how I know about this - 30 years of primarily driving stick.

I are an engineer (of sorts). All my vehicles have had stick shifts
since about 1970. In the past, it was because stick shifts got better
gas mileage, and were cheaper. I even converted one old vehicle from
automatic to manual (because the junk yard wanted less for the manual
than a rebuild would have cost me for the automatic). Today, it's
purely psychological and maybe a little macho. It doesn't feel like
I'm driving the vehicle unless I control the gearing. Having it done
automatically makes me feel more like I'm a passenger than a driver.
After price, a manual transmission was a mandatory requirement for my
last vehicle. I even overpaid the dealer for it as I knew they were
getting scarce and difficult to find.

In October I bought a brand new 2012 Mustang convertible with the stick
shift. (It had 200 or so miles on it--it had got caught up in the
Takata airbag mess, so the dealer couldn't sell it for ages.) Got a
nice discount too--it wound up being the price of my daughter's Kia
econobox.

Newer cars are full of surveillance devices, which I cordially dislike.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net