\"Right\" angle RJ11?...

[Don Y]

[Cripes, I never realized how \"involved\" all of these \"packaging\"
issues could be!]

I\'m looking for a right angle (\"up\" angle) RJ11 (male).

While I can see how it should be possible to design such a thing,
I imagine there is little/no market for one (at least not in as
\"extreme\" a form as I desire).

I\'d like the cable to exit the rear of the connector body normal to
the plane formed by the contacts. And, *just* outside the limits of
the mating receptacle -- not someplace further up the cable!

To prototype this (a handful of copies), I was thinking I could
print a connector body and retrofit contacts salvaged from a
genuine article (?).

But, access to my local printer is hindered by Covid19 constraints.
And, using a commercial service will likely require lots of iterations
(calendar time) as I figure out the mechanics involved for something
that \"finely detailed\" (having direct access to a local printer cuts
the time required to turn that crank).

I\'m also nervous that getting a print of that fine quality may
be difficult. (?)

So, I\'m thinking of just cobbling something together -- Dremel
and copious amounts of quick-set epoxy (in lieu of a mechanical
strain relief)

Any other ideas as to how to proceed (short of approaching a
connector vendor for a \"custom\", this early in the game)?
The contacts seem to be the real problem area...

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2020-08-07 00:01, Don Y wrote:

[Cripes, I never realized how \"involved\" all of these \"packaging\"
issues could be!]

I\'m looking for a right angle (\"up\" angle) RJ11 (male).

While I can see how it should be possible to design such a thing,
I imagine there is little/no market for one (at least not in as
\"extreme\" a form as I desire).

I\'d like the cable to exit the rear of the connector body normal to
the plane formed by the contacts.  And, *just* outside the limits of
the mating receptacle -- not someplace further up the cable!

To prototype this (a handful of copies), I was thinking I could
print a connector body and retrofit contacts salvaged from a
genuine article (?).

But, access to my local printer is hindered by Covid19 constraints.
And, using a commercial service will likely require lots of iterations
(calendar time) as I figure out the mechanics involved for something
that \"finely detailed\" (having direct access to a local printer cuts
the time required to turn that crank).

I\'m also nervous that getting a print of that fine quality may
be difficult.  (?)

So, I\'m thinking of just cobbling something together -- Dremel
and copious amounts of quick-set epoxy (in lieu of a mechanical
strain relief)

Any other ideas as to how to proceed (short of approaching a
connector vendor for a \"custom\", this early in the game)?
The contacts seem to be the real problem area...

\"Right angle\" in a connector means that the plug enters parallel to the
board.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Don Y]

On 8/6/2020 9:07 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 2020-08-07 00:01, Don Y wrote:
[Cripes, I never realized how \"involved\" all of these \"packaging\"
issues could be!]

I\'m looking for a right angle (\"up\" angle) RJ11 (male).

While I can see how it should be possible to design such a thing,
I imagine there is little/no market for one (at least not in as
\"extreme\" a form as I desire).

I\'d like the cable to exit the rear of the connector body normal to
the plane formed by the contacts. And, *just* outside the limits of
the mating receptacle -- not someplace further up the cable!

To prototype this (a handful of copies), I was thinking I could
print a connector body and retrofit contacts salvaged from a
genuine article (?).

But, access to my local printer is hindered by Covid19 constraints.
And, using a commercial service will likely require lots of iterations
(calendar time) as I figure out the mechanics involved for something
that \"finely detailed\" (having direct access to a local printer cuts
the time required to turn that crank).

I\'m also nervous that getting a print of that fine quality may
be difficult. (?)

So, I\'m thinking of just cobbling something together -- Dremel
and copious amounts of quick-set epoxy (in lieu of a mechanical
strain relief)

Any other ideas as to how to proceed (short of approaching a
connector vendor for a \"custom\", this early in the game)?
The contacts seem to be the real problem area...

\"Right angle\" in a connector means that the plug enters parallel to the board.

For a RECEPTACLE, perhaps.

Compare (for terminology, only) -- PLUGS:

<https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Extension-Shielded-Extender-Connector/dp/B08D3LXSPG>

<https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-CableCreation-Network-Category-3m（10FT）/dp/B076PV63LF>

<https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Combo-Pack-Degree-Ethernet/dp/B01N1EO495>

etc.

 

[boB]

On Thu, 6 Aug 2020 21:17:40 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
wrote:

On 8/6/2020 9:07 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-08-07 00:01, Don Y wrote:
[Cripes, I never realized how \"involved\" all of these \"packaging\"
issues could be!]

I\'m looking for a right angle (\"up\" angle) RJ11 (male).

While I can see how it should be possible to design such a thing,
I imagine there is little/no market for one (at least not in as
\"extreme\" a form as I desire).

I\'d like the cable to exit the rear of the connector body normal to
the plane formed by the contacts. And, *just* outside the limits of
the mating receptacle -- not someplace further up the cable!

To prototype this (a handful of copies), I was thinking I could
print a connector body and retrofit contacts salvaged from a
genuine article (?).

But, access to my local printer is hindered by Covid19 constraints.
And, using a commercial service will likely require lots of iterations
(calendar time) as I figure out the mechanics involved for something
that \"finely detailed\" (having direct access to a local printer cuts
the time required to turn that crank).

I\'m also nervous that getting a print of that fine quality may
be difficult. (?)

So, I\'m thinking of just cobbling something together -- Dremel
and copious amounts of quick-set epoxy (in lieu of a mechanical
strain relief)

Any other ideas as to how to proceed (short of approaching a
connector vendor for a \"custom\", this early in the game)?
The contacts seem to be the real problem area...

\"Right angle\" in a connector means that the plug enters parallel to the board.

For a RECEPTACLE, perhaps.

Compare (for terminology, only) -- PLUGS:

https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-Extension-Shielded-Extender-Connector/dp/B08D3LXSPG

https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-CableCreation-Network-Category-3m?10FT?/dp/B076PV63LF

https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Combo-Pack-Degree-Ethernet/dp/B01N1EO495

etc.

Lots of RJ-11 receptacles. Stand up and right angle PCB mount

I searched quite a bit for a PCB mount version of the male plug
version. I do not think anyone makes that. At least I could never
find one.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2020-08-07, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

[Cripes, I never realized how \"involved\" all of these \"packaging\"
issues could be!]

I\'m looking for a right angle (\"up\" angle) RJ11 (male).

While I can see how it should be possible to design such a thing,
I imagine there is little/no market for one (at least not in as
\"extreme\" a form as I desire).

I\'d like the cable to exit the rear of the connector body normal to
the plane formed by the contacts. And, *just* outside the limits of
the mating receptacle -- not someplace further up the cable!

The ordinary ones I have here only stick out by about 2mm.
(the body of the plug ends about 4.5mm after the wide part of the latch)

Having a bent body would likely result in a plug that about the same
length, or longer.

I\'ve possibly mis-understood, please confirm that you really are
straining over 2mm.

--
Jasen.

 

[Don Y]

On 8/6/2020 11:37 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2020-08-07, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
[Cripes, I never realized how \"involved\" all of these \"packaging\"
issues could be!]

I\'m looking for a right angle (\"up\" angle) RJ11 (male).

While I can see how it should be possible to design such a thing,
I imagine there is little/no market for one (at least not in as
\"extreme\" a form as I desire).

I\'d like the cable to exit the rear of the connector body normal to
the plane formed by the contacts. And, *just* outside the limits of
the mating receptacle -- not someplace further up the cable!

The ordinary ones I have here only stick out by about 2mm.
(the body of the plug ends about 4.5mm after the wide part of the latch)

Having a bent body would likely result in a plug that about the same
length, or longer.

I\'ve possibly mis-understood, please confirm that you really are
straining over 2mm.

I want the *cable* that terminates in the plug to lie flat against
the face of the receptacle (which is usually coplanar with the
case of the device of which it is a part).

A \"straight\" plug forces the cable to be bent, 90 degrees, as soon
as it exits the connector body -- IF the body is fully engaged
in the receptacle. If the plug is latched but not completely
penetrating, then this distance increases to almost 0.25\" -- WITH
that severe bend/strain in the cable.

I\'d like the \"outside\" of the cable to not protrude beyond the end
of the \"latch\" (or even less as I can always trim a bit of plastic
off the latch). With \"typical\" cabling, this is a really tight
bend (i.e., failure point) AT the end of the connector body.

+---+
| |
| |\\
| | \\
+---+ \\
Cable======= \\

Instead of:

+---+
| |
| ||\\
| || \\
+---+ \\
| \\
/
Cable=====

 

[Don Y]

On 8/6/2020 10:52 PM, boB wrote:

On 2020-08-07 00:01, Don Y wrote:
[Cripes, I never realized how \"involved\" all of these \"packaging\"
issues could be!]

I\'m looking for a right angle (\"up\" angle) RJ11 (male).

Lots of RJ-11 receptacles. Stand up and right angle PCB mount

I searched quite a bit for a PCB mount version of the male plug
version. I do not think anyone makes that. At least I could never
find one.

A \"straight up\" PCB mount would still be too tall; the plane
of the PCB (which could be replaced by a flex circuit acting as
the cable) needs to be cleared by the plug\'s \"latch\". I.e.,
the end of the latch would have to coincide with the end of the
connector body; typically it extends beyond.

+---+
| |
| |\\
| | \\
+---+ \\
========\\==============================PCB

 

[TTman]

On 07/08/2020 05:01, Don Y wrote:
SNIP

I\'m also nervous that getting a print of that fine quality may
be difficult.  (?)

So, I\'m thinking of just cobbling something together -- Dremel
and copious amounts of quick-set epoxy (in lieu of a mechanical
strain relief)

Any other ideas as to how to proceed (short of approaching a
connector vendor for a \"custom\", this early in the game)?
The contacts seem to be the real problem area...

I think your only option is to butcher a standard one.... cut away all
the plastic, bend the cable at rt angles and cover with epoxy. Getting
one custom made = $$$$

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

 

[Don Y]

On 8/7/2020 2:42 AM, TTman wrote:

On 07/08/2020 05:01, Don Y wrote:
SNIP

I\'m also nervous that getting a print of that fine quality may
be difficult. (?)

So, I\'m thinking of just cobbling something together -- Dremel
and copious amounts of quick-set epoxy (in lieu of a mechanical
strain relief)

Any other ideas as to how to proceed (short of approaching a
connector vendor for a \"custom\", this early in the game)?
The contacts seem to be the real problem area...

I think your only option is to butcher a standard one.... cut away all the
plastic, bend the cable at rt angles and cover with epoxy. Getting one custom
made = $$$$

Yes, for prototypes -- which shouldn\'t be abused as much as The Real Thing
and which have limited distribution and life -- I think a combination of
careful butchery and, perhaps, selection of wire type might do the trick.
E.g., solid conductors will likely tolerate a sharper \"one time\" flex
(secured with epoxy) at that critical point than stranded/woven wire.
Of course, it won\'t tolerate flexion elsewhere, as well. But...

(sigh) Too many connector issues consuming too much design time! :<

 

[whit3rd]

On Friday, August 7, 2020 at 12:47:53 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:

On 8/6/2020 10:52 PM, boB wrote:


Lots of RJ-11 receptacles. Stand up and right angle PCB mount

I searched quite a bit for a PCB mount version of the male plug
version. I do not think anyone makes that. At least I could never
find one.

A \"straight up\" PCB mount would still be too tall; the plane
of the PCB (which could be replaced by a flex circuit acting as
the cable) needs to be cleared by the plug\'s \"latch\".

Is a 45 degree outlet angle any help at all? You can cant a regular-old socket
so the mating cable doesn\'t pop straight perpendicular to
the faceplate, but trying to change the plug (with inbuilt strain relief
and contacts that deform the plastic to retain) is a hard engineering problem;
most materials can\'t do its flex and retain functions, so a 3D print doesn\'t help.

 

[Don Y]

On 8/7/2020 5:31 PM, whit3rd wrote:

On Friday, August 7, 2020 at 12:47:53 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 8/6/2020 10:52 PM, boB wrote:

Is a 45 degree outlet angle any help at all? You can cant a regular-old socket
so the mating cable doesn\'t pop straight perpendicular to
the faceplate,

I can only control the plug and cable coming from it.

but trying to change the plug (with inbuilt strain relief
and contacts that deform the plastic to retain) is a hard engineering problem;
most materials can\'t do its flex and retain functions, so a 3D print doesn\'t help.

I\'m only looking to print prototypes (silly to try to print in quantity).

I was thinking of replacing the hollow cavity where the cable exits with
a set of IDC contacts mounted at right angles to the existing ones on the
business end of the connector. Orient the \"biting edges\" outward (instead
of inward as they are on the \"real\" contact). Then, mash the conductors
onto those teeth in the reciprocal operation that is normally used to mate
the (real) contacts to the wires.

So, any tugging on the cord is normal to the connector\'s fit in the jack.
(and, in the prototypes, I can limit the tugging/abuse).

In a reengineered connector, you\'d just move the biting teeth out from
beneath the mating contacts and site them where the strain relief \"was\".

[But, I think just dremel and epoxy will be the most expedient. I doubt
anyone will look closely enough to gag on the sight!

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2020-08-07, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 8/6/2020 11:37 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2020-08-07, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
[Cripes, I never realized how \"involved\" all of these \"packaging\"
issues could be!]

I\'m looking for a right angle (\"up\" angle) RJ11 (male).

While I can see how it should be possible to design such a thing,
I imagine there is little/no market for one (at least not in as
\"extreme\" a form as I desire).

I\'d like the cable to exit the rear of the connector body normal to
the plane formed by the contacts. And, *just* outside the limits of
the mating receptacle -- not someplace further up the cable!

The ordinary ones I have here only stick out by about 2mm.
(the body of the plug ends about 4.5mm after the wide part of the latch)

Having a bent body would likely result in a plug that about the same
length, or longer.

I\'ve possibly mis-understood, please confirm that you really are
straining over 2mm.

I want the *cable* that terminates in the plug to lie flat against
the face of the receptacle (which is usually coplanar with the
case of the device of which it is a part).

A \"straight\" plug forces the cable to be bent, 90 degrees, as soon
as it exits the connector body -- IF the body is fully engaged
in the receptacle. If the plug is latched but not completely
penetrating, then this distance increases to almost 0.25\" -- WITH
that severe bend/strain in the cable.

\"severe?\"

I\'d like the \"outside\" of the cable to not protrude beyond the end
of the \"latch\" (or even less as I can always trim a bit of plastic
off the latch). With \"typical\" cabling, this is a really tight
bend (i.e., failure point) AT the end of the connector body.

If you trim the latch the plug will fall out, do you mean latch handle?

+---+
| |
| |\\
| | \\
+---+ \\
Cable======= \\

Instead of:

+---+
| |
| ||\\
| || \\
+---+ \\
| \\
/
Cable=====

If I squeeze lightly on an ordinary oval phone cable I can make it
look like this.
__
.----||
| }| ||
|-\'| ||
|>: :| \\
|.\' :| \\
___+----\' \\
Cable_____/\' \\


With a little stategic heating and folding of the cable before crimping I can
probably make that shape permanent

Identifying marks on the cable seem to be E133136 AWM20251 and
LIOU YUANE, but to me it seems very ordinary.

--
Jasen.

 

[Tim Williams]

What does it matter that it\'s an RJ11?

If a regular one plus cable can\'t fit, well, it\'s not really RJ11 anymore,
is it? The whole point of following a standard, is to be compatible.
You\'re breaking that. Just pick a dfferent connector with a lower profile.

Tim

--
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design
Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/

\"Don Y\" <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in message
news:rgijni$7fp$1@dont-email.me...

[Cripes, I never realized how \"involved\" all of these \"packaging\"
issues could be!]

I\'m looking for a right angle (\"up\" angle) RJ11 (male).

While I can see how it should be possible to design such a thing,
I imagine there is little/no market for one (at least not in as
\"extreme\" a form as I desire).

I\'d like the cable to exit the rear of the connector body normal to
the plane formed by the contacts. And, *just* outside the limits of
the mating receptacle -- not someplace further up the cable!

To prototype this (a handful of copies), I was thinking I could
print a connector body and retrofit contacts salvaged from a
genuine article (?).

But, access to my local printer is hindered by Covid19 constraints.
And, using a commercial service will likely require lots of iterations
(calendar time) as I figure out the mechanics involved for something
that \"finely detailed\" (having direct access to a local printer cuts
the time required to turn that crank).

I\'m also nervous that getting a print of that fine quality may
be difficult. (?)

So, I\'m thinking of just cobbling something together -- Dremel
and copious amounts of quick-set epoxy (in lieu of a mechanical
strain relief)

Any other ideas as to how to proceed (short of approaching a
connector vendor for a \"custom\", this early in the game)?
The contacts seem to be the real problem area...

 

[Don Y]

On 8/8/2020 3:55 AM, Tim Williams wrote:
> What does it matter that it\'s an RJ11?

Because the mating connector on the other piece of equipment is an RJ11 *jack*.
Sure would be nice if we could redefine the constraints imposed on our
designs, eh? :> I could change the connector, change it\'s location, change
the form factor of the device, etc. Ah, the possibilities!

If a regular one plus cable can\'t fit, well, it\'s not really RJ11 anymore, is
it? The whole point of following a standard, is to be compatible. You\'re
breaking that. Just pick a dfferent connector with a lower profile.

Tim

 

[Don Y]

On 8/7/2020 11:26 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:

With a little stategic heating and folding of the cable before crimping I can
probably make that shape permanent

I was able to do it without \"strategic heating\" (but by modifying the connector
shell, as I described). A better long-run solution (i.e., make new connectors
that fit the needs of the application).

 

[Tim Williams]

\"Don Y\" <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in message
news:rgm5pc$emv$1@dont-email.me...

Because the mating connector on the other piece of equipment is an RJ11
*jack*.
Sure would be nice if we could redefine the constraints imposed on our
designs, eh? :

Excuse me for thinking this was a design group...

You didn\'t mention which sides you have control over; both is a reasonable
assumption.

Then what is this equipment, why doesn\'t it fit, and why can\'t it be
redesigned? (Perhaps not in the same project timeline, but that happens.)

Tim

--
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design
Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/

 

[Don Y]

On 8/9/2020 1:47 PM, Tim Williams wrote:

\"Don Y\" <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in message
news:rgm5pc$emv$1@dont-email.me...
Because the mating connector on the other piece of equipment is an RJ11 *jack*.
Sure would be nice if we could redefine the constraints imposed on our
designs, eh? :

Excuse me for thinking this was a design group...

Yes. And, in design, we almost always have constraints on the environment
(electrical, physical, economic) in which our designs are intended to function.

E.g., I\'d have loved to pick something besides 8P8C\'s for my network
connections (yet another crappy connector!) but don\'t want to be in the
business of convincing users that they need to \"adapt\" their existing
cables to fit my choice of implementation -- regardless of how much better
that choice may be!

You didn\'t mention which sides you have control over; both is a reasonable
assumption.

As is \"neither\". The fact that I\'d obviously ruled out \"using a different
connector\", \"modifying the other device\'s physical characteristics to
support a \'normal\' RJ11\" as well as \"modifying the environment to make
such a COTS selection possible\" suggests that the solution proposed was
the only practical one.

Likewise, when a client gives me a list of requirements, I tend to assume
he/she KNOWS his market and why those particular requirements are important
enough to be codified. I don\'t need a justification of each.

Then what is this equipment, why doesn\'t it fit, and why can\'t it be
redesigned? (Perhaps not in the same project timeline, but that happens.)

I don\'t have control over the other piece of equipment. I can\'t \"recall\"
every unit that has ever been sold. I have no leverage over the manufacturer
of same. I have no desire to enter into competition with them.

The \"dremel plus epoxy\" approach demonstrated that such an approach is
possible. I\'ve a colleague working on fleshing out a new connector body
that will be compatible with the existing equipment as well as my needs.

This is the fourth such connector he\'s been asked to \"revise\".
Apparently a necessary consequence when you\'re looking for really
small packages that must \"conform\" to existing devices. It was MUCH
easier designing kit that could sit on a table/bench and have cables
leisurely feeding it.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 8/6/2020 11:37 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2020-08-07, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
[Cripes, I never realized how \"involved\" all of these \"packaging\"
issues could be!]

I\'m looking for a right angle (\"up\" angle) RJ11 (male).

While I can see how it should be possible to design such a thing,
I imagine there is little/no market for one (at least not in as
\"extreme\" a form as I desire).

I\'d like the cable to exit the rear of the connector body normal to
the plane formed by the contacts. And, *just* outside the limits of
the mating receptacle -- not someplace further up the cable!

The ordinary ones I have here only stick out by about 2mm.
(the body of the plug ends about 4.5mm after the wide part of the latch)

Having a bent body would likely result in a plug that about the same
length, or longer.

I\'ve possibly mis-understood, please confirm that you really are
straining over 2mm.

I want the *cable* that terminates in the plug to lie flat against
the face of the receptacle (which is usually coplanar with the
case of the device of which it is a part).

A \"straight\" plug forces the cable to be bent, 90 degrees, as soon
as it exits the connector body -- IF the body is fully engaged
in the receptacle. If the plug is latched but not completely
penetrating, then this distance increases to almost 0.25\" -- WITH
that severe bend/strain in the cable.

I\'d like the \"outside\" of the cable to not protrude beyond the end
of the \"latch\" (or even less as I can always trim a bit of plastic
off the latch). With \"typical\" cabling, this is a really tight
bend (i.e., failure point) AT the end of the connector body.

+---+
| |
| |\\
| | \\
+---+ \\
Cable======= \\

Instead of:

+---+
| |
| ||\\
| || \\
+---+ \\
| \\
/
Cable=====

Never seen this, and I checked on sandman.com. If there\'s a supplier of
goofy telecom stuff, it\'s them.

You could nibbled out part of the connector on a RJ-11 plug. If you cut
out too much, the strain relief \"wedge\" won\'t catch though. Inject epoxy
instead? Whatever you\'re doing sounds like a hack anyways.

I measure ~ 0.21\" of connector you can cut off and not alter any part of
the electrical parts. This is from an genuine Amp 6 opsition RJ-11 plug.
The mating receptable usually allow for the plug to be recessed into a
well, so you it sounds like you need to modify that too for cable
clearance.