Resonant RLC Conundrum

Guest
I recently purchased a variable-voltage, variable-frequency power
supply (which was designed for driving capacitive loads) and an extra
transformer for experimentation. Before I purchased the power supply,
in response to my email questioning certain aspects of the power
supply the company sent me a schematic of the unit. The transformer
also came with an example plan for a Jacob's ladder, with a schematic
and a fairly detailed description of the circuit. The two
aforementioned schematics are very similar, with a few minor
difference in the details, including the fact that the secondary of
the power supply's transformer is endpoint-grounded to the AC
electrical outlet earth ground via the metal chassis but the plan for
the Jacob's ladder calls for a center-tap-grounded secondary.

By the way, before purchasing, I did question the safety of grounding
the high-voltage, high-frequency secondary through the electrical
outlet instead of to a separate earth ground. My question went
unanswered. I also asked about the availability of datasheets for the
company's products, because the product information on the company's
website leaves out a lot of information, and the engineer(?) to whom I
spoke assured me that the products came with datasheets--when I
received the shipment, I had no datasheets. The schematic for the
power supply covers two or three different products (designed for
different purposes) and defines the primary and secondary turns for
three different transformers but only gives the open- and short-
circuit inductance for one of the transformers, which isn't the
transformer of my unit. As you might imagine, I'm quite frustrated by
the missing details.

CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION* (The same for both circuits.)

The primary (Lp) of the output transformer (T1) is driven by a pair of
IR450 MOSFETs (Q1, Q2) in a half-bridge configuration driven by an
IR2153 self-oscillating half-bridge driver. The primary of the
transformer has one end (TP2) connected between Q1 and Q2 and the
other end (TP3) connected between two 1.5 microfarad(?) capacitors (C5
and C6), which are between the positive and negative DC rails. Pin 6
of the IR2153 connects between TP2 and Q2. The .0015 microfarad(?)
capacitor (C7) and 10/3 resistor (R8) in parallel to Lp and between Lp
and TP2/TP3, to paraphrase the circuit description, slow down the
transition time of the switched pulses across Q1 and Q2, with the
resultant time constant limiting the dv/dt rate, which could cause
premature turn-on at the wrong switch, "creating a catastrophic fault
mode." C5 and C6 "provide a voltage midpoint and produce the necessary
storage energy to maintain the voltage level of the individual pulses.

Since the secondary (Ls) of the power supply is endpoint grounded to
earth, it leaves only the power output lead for connection to the
load, and, except for experiments with single-ended loads, the other
end of the load would be connected to earth.

* Especially considering that the company is willing to send a
schematic of their product to a prospective buyer without a request
for a schematic and that the assembly is clearly visible through the
clear plastic case of the unit, a partial description of the circuit
for discussion should be FAIR USE.

MY QUESTIONS

1. In his description/sales-pitch of the unit, the engineer(?)/
saleperson insisted that the [capacitive] load across the secondary is
in series with the inductor Ls, so the voltage is dependent on the Q
of the secondary circuit. Granted, IIRC, in the effective circuit of a
transformer each coil presents a series inductance and a parallel
inductance. However, because the load shares common power and ground
with Ls, isn't the secondary effectively a parallel RLC circuit?

2. I see a parallel RLC circuit consisting of C7, R8 and Ls. If I
adequately described the circuit, would this statement be accurate?

3. Every electronics reference I have found treats transformers and
RLC circuits separately. Granted, most references deal with
theoretical ideal components in their lessons on the theory (unless
the coil of the transformer is the only theoretical inductance, eg. in
descriptions of tank circuits). However, even in concrete experimental
examples, with step-down transformers providing the AC power source to
(R)LC circuits with separate coils, the example measurements leave the
inductances of the transformer out of the equation.

I did some calculations for a few RLC circuits, each with a capacitor
(C2) and an inductor (L2) powered by the seondary (Ls) of a
transformer. If Ls is relatively large the difference between the
resonant frequency of C2 and L2 and the resonant frequency of C2 and
Lst (ie, 1/(1/L2 + 1/Ls)) is much smaller than if Ls is relatively
small.

Why would an electronic reference leave Ls out of the equation,
especially if an experimental example about power factors and
resonance in LC circuits specifically includes a transformer to power
the experimental example?

4. Back to the power supply schematic, is there any reason I couldn't
choose the resonant frequency of the primary LC with an inductor L1
and a resistor Rx (matching the time constant of C7 and R9) parallel
to Lp and parallel to C7--R9?

(Why would I want to do that? I can think of a few reasons. First,
according to my calculations, if I understand it all correctly,
raising the resonant frequency of the primary with an extra parallel
inductor will raise the reactance of Lp, effectively reducing the VA
across the primary. Since I don't have a datasheet or VA rating for
the transformer and don't look forward to dealing with the company for
the answers, VA could be important, especially on the secondary coil.
Also, the unit was engineered for capacitive loads falling within a
specific range of capacitances that might not work for my experiments.
Furthermore, it might help me with impedance matching between the
primary and secondary.)

5. If in addition to adding L1 to the primary I add an inductor L2
likewise across the secondary circuit to match the resonant frequency
of the primary circuit, does a difference in the inductive reactances
of Lp and Ls draw power? Or is resonant impedance matching between L1,
C1 and L2, C2 more important?

6. The manner in which I phrased Number 5 might be confusing. To
paraphrase the question, do I want to match the resonant frequencies
of Lpt, C1 and Lst, C2 or the resonant frequencies of L1, C1 and L2,
C2?

7. I don't have inductance values for the 80T:2500T transformer in the
power supply, but I do have a multimeter with a built-in inductance
meter. I don't think I can measure the primary or secondary
inductances for frequency-reactance calculations without revoming the
transformer from the unit. Right?

8. Are frequency-impedance calculations based on open-circuit or short-
circuit inductance measurements or neither? (I can't seem to find the
answer to this one online or in my references.) The relationship
between open- and short-circuit specs would lead me to believe that
calculation would be based on the short-circuit inductance, but I
don't want to guess.

9. I can't quite wrap my head around how exactly the half bridge
works. As described, would C5 and C6 add a DC bias? Or would the power
lead swing from +V to -V with respect to ground?

Thanks in advance for the answers to any or all of these questions.
 
On Sep 4, 5:04 pm, jackpane...@yahoo.com wrote:
2. I see a parallel RLC circuit consisting of C7, R8 and Ls. If I
adequately described the circuit, would this statement be accurate?
I made a typo in question 2 of the original post. Ls should be Lp.

CORRECTION: 2. I see a parallel RLC circuit consisting of C7, R8 and
Lp. If I
adequately described the circuit, would this statement be accurate?
 
jackpanella@ yahoo.com wrote:
If I adequately described the circuit, would this statement be accurate?
A picture is MUCH better than a long-winded *description* of your
circuit.
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.tech-chat.de/aacircuit.html+&langpair=de%7Cen
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.design/browse_frm/thread/c205532fb4016e98/06866464cba0f374?q=3-years-*+*-*-*-*-great-job+Andy's-ASCII-Circuit
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.design/browse_frm/thread/6655973a2f01db8b/2ee8901ea226954?q=I-have-used-your-program-under-wine-in-Linux

....and a username that is NOT an email address
works much better--especially if you are posting from Google Groups.
http://groups.google.com/groups/mysubs
 
On Sep 4, 5:30 pm, JeffM <jef...@email.com> wrote:
 jackpanella@ yahoo.com wrote:
I made a typo[...]
If I adequately described the circuit, would this statement be accurate?

A picture is MUCH better than a long-winded *description* of your
circuit.http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.tech-chat.de/aacir...http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.design/browse_frm/thre...http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.design/browse_frm/thre....
Sorry. I don't do Windows and I don't WINE.

I considered using ASCII art but decided that someone with enough
knowledge to answer my questions could understand my description,
which I didn't think was overly verbose.

The last time I tried ASCII art for a USENET post, it didn't translate
well, due to font kerning. I tried this one with a text editor with my
fixed system font. I hope it works.

DC + rail
------------------------@---@
| |
|--->|--------@-@ | = C5
| _______ | | @--Q1< |
-@--|1 8|--@ = # | | L1 T1 L2
----|2 7|--|----@ @---|-@-@---@ @-@---@
----|3 IC1 6|--@--------@ | O | O|O | O
----|4 5|-------@ | | O =C7 O|O =C2 O
|_______| # | | O #R8 O|O | O
@--Q2> @-@-----@ @-@---@
| | Ls|Lp
| =C6
| |
------------------------@---@
DC - rail

IC1... IR2153 self-oscillating half-bridge driver
Q1,Q2... IR540 MOSFETs
C5,C6... 1.5 microfarad capacitors
L1,L2... Proposed inductor additions, absent from original design
C7... .0015 microfarad capacitor
R8... 10 ohm/3 watt resistor
T1... 80T:2500T transformer
C2... capacitive load

# resisitor
= capacitor
| diode
O inductor
@ connection, corners
 
On Sep 4, 8:11 pm, jackpane...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Sep 4, 5:30 pm, JeffM <jef...@email.com> wrote:

 jackpanella@ yahoo.com wrote:
I made a typo[...]
If I adequately described the circuit, would this statement be accurate?

A picture is MUCH better than a long-winded *description* of your
circuit.http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.tech-chat.de/aacir......

Sorry. I don't do Windows and I don't WINE.

I considered using ASCII art but decided that someone with enough
knowledge to answer my questions could understand my description,
which I didn't think was overly verbose.

The last time I tried ASCII art for a USENET post, it didn't translate
well, due to font kerning. I tried this one with a text editor with my
fixed system font. I hope it works.

       DC + rail
------------------------@---@
                        |   |
 |--->|--------@-@      |   = C5
 |   _______   | |  @--Q1<  |
-@--|1     8|--@ =  #   |   | L1     T1    L2
----|2     7|--|----@   @---|-@-@---@ @-@---@
----|3 IC1 6|--@--------@   | O |   O|O |   O
----|4     5|-------@   |   | O =C7 O|O =C2 O
    |_______|       #   |   | O #R8 O|O |   O
                    @--Q2>  @-@-----@ @-@---@
                        |   |      Ls|Lp
                        |   =C6
                        |   |
------------------------@---@
        DC - rail

IC1...   IR2153 self-oscillating half-bridge driver
Q1,Q2... IR540 MOSFETs
C5,C6... 1.5 microfarad capacitors
L1,L2... Proposed inductor additions, absent from original design
C7...    .0015 microfarad capacitor
R8...    10 ohm/3 watt resistor
T1...    80T:2500T transformer
C2...    capacitive load

#        resisitor
=        capacitor>|       diode

O        inductor
@        connection, corners
ACK! That's IR450 MOSFETs
 
On Sep 4, 8:11 pm, jackpane...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Sep 4, 5:30 pm, JeffM <jef...@email.com> wrote:

 jackpanella@ yahoo.com wrote:
I made a typo[...]
If I adequately described the circuit, would this statement be accurate?

A picture is MUCH better than a long-winded *description* of your
circuit.http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.tech-chat.de/aacir......

Sorry. I don't do Windows and I don't WINE.

I considered using ASCII art but decided that someone with enough
knowledge to answer my questions could understand my description,
which I didn't think was overly verbose.

The last time I tried ASCII art for a USENET post, it didn't translate
well, due to font kerning. I tried this one with a text editor with my
fixed system font. I hope it works.

       DC + rail
------------------------@---@
                        |   |
 |--->|--------@-@      |   = C5
 |   _______   | |  @--Q1<  |
-@--|1     8|--@ =  #   |   | L1     T1    L2
----|2     7|--|----@   @---|-@-@---@ @-@---@
----|3 IC1 6|--@--------@   | O |   O|O |   O
----|4     5|-------@   |   | O =C7 O|O =C2 O
    |_______|       #   |   | O #R8 O|O |   O
                    @--Q2>  @-@-----@ @-@---@
                        |   |      Ls|Lp
                        |   =C6
                        |   |
------------------------@---@
        DC - rail

IC1...   IR2153 self-oscillating half-bridge driver
Q1,Q2... IR540 MOSFETs
C5,C6... 1.5 microfarad capacitors
L1,L2... Proposed inductor additions, absent from original design
C7...    .0015 microfarad capacitor
R8...    10 ohm/3 watt resistor
T1...    80T:2500T transformer
C2...    capacitive load

#        resisitor
=        capacitor>|       diode

O        inductor
@        connection, corners
One more correction... ASCII art is such a PITA.

DC + rail
------------------------@---@
| |
|--->|--------@-@ | = C5
| _______ | | @--Q1< |
-@--|1 8|--@ = # | | L1 T1 L2
----|2 7|----|--@ @---|-@-@---@ @-@---@
----|3 IC1 6|----@------@ | O | O|O | O
----|4 5|-------@ | | O =C7 O|O =C2 O
|_______| # | | O #R8 O|O | O
@--Q2> @-@-----@ @-@---@
| | Ls|Lp
| =C6
| |
------------------------@---@
DC - rail

IC1... IR2153 self-oscillating half-bridge driver
Q1,Q2... IR540 MOSFETs
C5,C6... 1.5 microfarad capacitors
L1,L2... Proposed inductor additions, absent from original design
C7... .0015 microfarad capacitor
R8... 10 ohm/3 watt resistor
T1... 80T:2500T transformer
C2... capacitive load

# resisitor
= capacitor
| diode
O inductor
@ connection, corners
 
On Sep 4, 8:43 pm, jackpane...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Sep 4, 8:11 pm, jackpane...@yahoo.com wrote:



On Sep 4, 5:30 pm, JeffM <jef...@email.com> wrote:

 jackpanella@ yahoo.com wrote:
I made a typo[...]
If I adequately described the circuit, would this statement be accurate?

A picture is MUCH better than a long-winded *description* of your
circuit.http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.tech-chat.de/aacir......

Sorry. I don't do Windows and I don't WINE.

I considered using ASCII art but decided that someone with enough
knowledge to answer my questions could understand my description,
which I didn't think was overly verbose.

The last time I tried ASCII art for a USENET post, it didn't translate
well, due to font kerning. I tried this one with a text editor with my
fixed system font. I hope it works.

       DC + rail
------------------------@---@
                        |   |
 |--->|--------@-@      |   = C5
 |   _______   | |  @--Q1<  |
-@--|1     8|--@ =  #   |   | L1     T1    L2
----|2     7|--|----@   @---|-@-@---@ @-@---@
----|3 IC1 6|--@--------@   | O |   O|O |   O
----|4     5|-------@   |   | O =C7 O|O =C2 O
    |_______|       #   |   | O #R8 O|O |   O
                    @--Q2>  @-@-----@ @-@---@
                        |   |      Ls|Lp
                        |   =C6
                        |   |
------------------------@---@
        DC - rail

IC1...   IR2153 self-oscillating half-bridge driver
Q1,Q2... IR540 MOSFETs
C5,C6... 1.5 microfarad capacitors
L1,L2... Proposed inductor additions, absent from original design
C7...    .0015 microfarad capacitor
R8...    10 ohm/3 watt resistor
T1...    80T:2500T transformer
C2...    capacitive load

#        resisitor
=        capacitor>|       diode

O        inductor
@        connection, corners

One more correction... ASCII art is such a PITA.

       DC + rail
------------------------@---@
                        |   |
 |--->|--------@-@      |   = C5
 |   _______   | |  @--Q1<  |
-@--|1     8|--@ =  #   |   | L1     T1    L2
----|2     7|----|--@   @---|-@-@---@ @-@---@
----|3 IC1 6|----@------@   | O |   O|O |   O
----|4     5|-------@   |   | O =C7 O|O =C2 O
    |_______|       #   |   | O #R8 O|O |   O
                    @--Q2>  @-@-----@ @-@---@
                        |   |      Ls|Lp
                        |   =C6
                        |   |
------------------------@---@
        DC - rail

IC1...   IR2153 self-oscillating half-bridge driver
Q1,Q2... IR540 MOSFETs
C5,C6... 1.5 microfarad capacitors
L1,L2... Proposed inductor additions, absent from original design
C7...    .0015 microfarad capacitor
R8...    10 ohm/3 watt resistor
T1...    80T:2500T transformer
C2...    capacitive load

#        resisitor
=        capacitor>|       diode

O        inductor
@        connection, corners
ONE MORE TIME. I had Ls and Lp reversed.

DC + rail
------------------------@---@
| |
|--->|--------@-@ | = C5
| _______ | | @--Q1< |
-@--|1 8|--@ = # | | L1 T1 L2
----|2 7|----|--@ @---|-@-@---@ @-@---@
----|3 IC1 6|----@------@ | O | O|O | O
----|4 5|-------@ | | O =C7 O|O =C2 O
|_______| # | | O #R8 O|O | O
@--Q2> @-@-----@ @-@---@
| | Lp|Ls
| =C6
| |
------------------------@---@
DC - rail

IC1... IR2153 self-oscillating half-bridge driver
Q1,Q2... IR540 MOSFETs
C5,C6... 1.5 microfarad capacitors
L1,L2... Proposed inductor additions, absent from original design
C7... .0015 microfarad capacitor
R8... 10 ohm/3 watt resistor
T1... 80T:2500T transformer
C2... capacitive load

# resisitor
= capacitor
| diode
O inductor
@ connection, corners
 
On Sep 4, 9:46 pm, jackpane...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Sep 4, 8:43 pm, jackpane...@yahoo.com wrote:



On Sep 4, 8:11 pm, jackpane...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Sep 4, 5:30 pm, JeffM <jef...@email.com> wrote:

 jackpanella@ yahoo.com wrote:
I made a typo[...]
If I adequately described the circuit, would this statement be accurate?

A picture is MUCH better than a long-winded *description* of your
circuit.http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.tech-chat.de/aacir......

Sorry. I don't do Windows and I don't WINE.

I considered using ASCII art but decided that someone with enough
knowledge to answer my questions could understand my description,
which I didn't think was overly verbose.

The last time I tried ASCII art for a USENET post, it didn't translate
well, due to font kerning. I tried this one with a text editor with my
fixed system font. I hope it works.

       DC + rail
------------------------@---@
                        |   |
 |--->|--------@-@      |   = C5
 |   _______   | |  @--Q1<  |
-@--|1     8|--@ =  #   |   | L1     T1    L2
----|2     7|--|----@   @---|-@-@---@ @-@---@
----|3 IC1 6|--@--------@   | O |   O|O |   O
----|4     5|-------@   |   | O =C7 O|O =C2 O
    |_______|       #   |   | O #R8 O|O |   O
                    @--Q2>  @-@-----@ @-@---@
                        |   |      Ls|Lp
                        |   =C6
                        |   |
------------------------@---@
        DC - rail

IC1...   IR2153 self-oscillating half-bridge driver
Q1,Q2... IR540 MOSFETs
C5,C6... 1.5 microfarad capacitors
L1,L2... Proposed inductor additions, absent from original design
C7...    .0015 microfarad capacitor
R8...    10 ohm/3 watt resistor
T1...    80T:2500T transformer
C2...    capacitive load

#        resisitor
=        capacitor>|       diode

O        inductor
@        connection, corners

One more correction... ASCII art is such a PITA.

       DC + rail
------------------------@---@
                        |   |
 |--->|--------@-@      |   = C5
 |   _______   | |  @--Q1<  |
-@--|1     8|--@ =  #   |   | L1     T1    L2
----|2     7|----|--@   @---|-@-@---@ @-@---@
----|3 IC1 6|----@------@   | O |   O|O |   O
----|4     5|-------@   |   | O =C7 O|O =C2 O
    |_______|       #   |   | O #R8 O|O |   O
                    @--Q2>  @-@-----@ @-@---@
                        |   |      Ls|Lp
                        |   =C6
                        |   |
------------------------@---@
        DC - rail

IC1...   IR2153 self-oscillating half-bridge driver
Q1,Q2... IR540 MOSFETs
C5,C6... 1.5 microfarad capacitors
L1,L2... Proposed inductor additions, absent from original design
C7...    .0015 microfarad capacitor
R8...    10 ohm/3 watt resistor
T1...    80T:2500T transformer
C2...    capacitive load

#        resisitor
=        capacitor>|       diode

O        inductor
@        connection, corners

ONE MORE TIME. I had Ls and Lp reversed.

       DC + rail
------------------------@---@
                        |   |
 |--->|--------@-@      |   = C5
 |   _______   | |  @--Q1<  |
-@--|1     8|--@ =  #   |   | L1     T1    L2
----|2     7|----|--@   @---|-@-@---@ @-@---@
----|3 IC1 6|----@------@   | O |   O|O |   O
----|4     5|-------@   |   | O =C7 O|O =C2 O
    |_______|       #   |   | O #R8 O|O |   O
                    @--Q2>  @-@-----@ @-@---@
                        |   |      Lp|Ls
                        |   =C6
                        |   |
------------------------@---@
        DC - rail

IC1...   IR2153 self-oscillating half-bridge driver
Q1,Q2... IR540 MOSFETs
C5,C6... 1.5 microfarad capacitors
L1,L2... Proposed inductor additions, absent from original design
C7...    .0015 microfarad capacitor
R8...    10 ohm/3 watt resistor
T1...    80T:2500T transformer
C2...    capacitive load

#        resisitor
=        capacitor>|       diode

O        inductor
@        connection, corners
I think we can see the problem now.
 
On Sep 5, 7:48 am, Rose <couple7802...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think we can see the problem now.
Problem? You mean the itchy trigger figger? That I might need new
eyeglasses? That I'm clueless? Or that I forgot the connection from R8
to the adjacent trace and the ground on one leg of the secondary? ;o)

Sorry. I didn't mean to flood the group with corrections, but I
thought it needed edification.

DC + rail
------------------------@---@
| |
|--->|--------@-@ | =C5
| _______ | | @--Q1< |
-@--|1 8|--@ = # | | L1 T1 L2
----|2 7|----|--@ @---|-@---@---@ @-@---@
----|3 IC1 6|----@------@ | O | O|O | O
----|4 5|-------@ | | O =C7 O|O =C2 O
|_______| # | | #Rx #R8 O|O | O
@--Q2> @-@- @---@ @-@---@
| | Lp Ls |
| =C6 ---
| | -
------------------------@---@
DC - rail

IC1... IR2153 self-oscillating half-bridge driver
Q1,Q2... IR450 MOSFETs
C5,C6... 1.5 microfarad capacitors
L1,L2... Proposed inductor additions, absent from original design
C7... .0015 microfarad capacitor
R8... 10 ohm/3 watt resistor
T1... 80T:2500T transformer
C2... capacitive load

# resisitor
= capacitor
| diode
O inductor
@ connection, corner
 
On Sep 5, 9:30 am, jackpane...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Sep 5, 7:48 am, Rose <couple7802...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I think we can see the problem now.

Problem? You mean the itchy trigger figger? That I might need new
eyeglasses? That I'm clueless? Or that I forgot the connection from R8
to the adjacent trace and the ground on one leg of the secondary? ;o)

Sorry. I didn't mean to flood the group with corrections, but I
thought it needed edification.

       DC + rail
------------------------@---@
                        |   |
 |--->|--------@-@      |   =C5
 |   _______   | |  @--Q1<  |
-@--|1     8|--@ =  #   |   | L1     T1      L2
----|2     7|----|--@   @---|-@---@---@ @-@---@
----|3 IC1 6|----@------@   | O   |   O|O |   O
----|4     5|-------@   |   | O   =C7 O|O =C2 O
    |_______|       #   |   | #Rx #R8 O|O |   O
                    @--Q2>  @-@-  @---@ @-@---@
                        |   |        Lp Ls  |
                        |   =C6            ---
                        |   |               -
------------------------@---@
        DC - rail

IC1...   IR2153 self-oscillating half-bridge driver
Q1,Q2... IR450 MOSFETs
C5,C6... 1.5 microfarad capacitors
L1,L2... Proposed inductor additions, absent from original design
C7...    .0015 microfarad capacitor
R8...    10 ohm/3 watt resistor
T1...    80T:2500T transformer
C2...    capacitive load

#        resisitor
=        capacitor>|       diode

O        inductor
@        connection, corner
Somebody shoot me! I broke the trace. You probably get the idea.

DC + rail
------------------------@---@
| |
|--->|--------@-@ | =C5
| _______ | | @--Q1< |
-@--|1 8|--@ = # | | L1 T1 L2
----|2 7|----|--@ @---|-@---@---@ @-@---@
----|3 IC1 6|----@------@ | O | O|O | O
----|4 5|-------@ | | O =C7 O|O =C2 O
|_______| # | | #Rx #R8 O|O | O
@--Q2> @-@---@---@ @-@---@
| | Lp Ls |
| =C6 ---
| | -
------------------------@---@
DC - rail

IC1... IR2153 self-oscillating half-bridge driver
Q1,Q2... IR450 MOSFETs
C5,C6... 1.5 microfarad capacitors
L1,L2... Proposed inductor additions, absent from original design
C7... .0015 microfarad capacitor
R8... 10 ohm/3 watt resistor
T1... 80T:2500T transformer
C2... capacitive load

# resisitor
= capacitor
| diode
O inductor
@ connection, corner
 
On 2008-09-05, jackpanella@yahoo.com <jackpanella@yahoo.com> wrote:

knowledge to answer my questions could understand my description,
which I didn't think was overly verbose.

The last time I tried ASCII art for a USENET post, it didn't translate
well, due to font kerning. I tried this one with a text editor with my
fixed system font. I hope it works.
Generally that's the best way.
I see from your headers you're usding linux (also got the hint from some
earlier comments). There's a free tool called aewan that's good for ascii
art although that's apparently not the developer's intention - there's no
obvious way to save as plain text but select and paste works)

It's a pity you run ltspice under wine, it works really well. I know you
can use gschem (etc) instead but there's more people here who are equipped
to read ltspice cirucits.

Bye.
Jasen
 
When I took my girlfriend to a doctor appointment the other day, I had
some time to concentrate on the circuit. Even without the schematic in
front of me, I managed to understand it better, and I answered a few
of my own questions. Please correct any errors in my understanding.

1. In his description/sales-pitch of the unit, the engineer(?)/
saleperson insisted that the [capacitive] load across the secondary is
in series with the inductor Ls, so the voltage is dependent on the Q
of the secondary circuit. Granted, IIRC, in the effective circuit of a
transformer each coil presents a series inductance and a parallel
inductance. However, because the load shares common power and ground
with Ls, isn't the secondary effectively a parallel RLC circuit?

9. I can't quite wrap my head around how exactly the half bridge
works. As described, would C5 and C6 add a DC bias? Or would the power
lead swing from +V to -V with respect to ground?
Of course, C5 and C6 hold the one end of the primary between them at
the voltage midpoint, and the half bridge oscillates the other end of
the primary between ground (DC - rail) and full voltage (DC + rail). I
would deduce that this would oscillate the secondary between (stepped
up) +V and -V with respect to ground.

C5 and C6 also present a capacitance in serial(?) with the primary as
current flows in and out due to the other end of the line swinging
between high and low voltages. This serial LC circuit would probably
give an inductive kick, and THAT is why the salesman insisted that the
output voltage would depend on the Q of the load (and NOT because the
capacitive load is in serial with the inductance of the secondary).

Since a serial LC circuit draws maximum current at resonance, I
definitely don't want resonance in that part of the circuit. In fact,
I would want the frequency as far away from resonance as practical.
However, since this serial capacitance makes the primary circuit a
serial-parallel RLC circuit I'll need to go back to the books and redo
the math to fully comprehend what transpires here.

3. Every electronics reference I have found treats transformers and
RLC circuits separately. Granted, most references deal with
theoretical ideal components in their lessons on the theory (unless
the coil of the transformer is the only theoretical inductance, eg. in
descriptions of tank circuits). However, even in concrete experimental
examples, with step-down transformers providing the AC power source to
(R)LC circuits with separate coils, the example measurements leave the
inductances of the transformer out of the equation.

I did some calculations for a few RLC circuits, each with a capacitor
(C2) and an inductor (L2) powered by the seondary (Ls) of a
transformer. If Ls is relatively large the difference between the
resonant frequency of C2 and L2 and the resonant frequency of C2 and
Lst (ie, 1/(1/L2 + 1/Ls)) is much smaller than if Ls is relatively
small.

Why would an electronic reference leave Ls out of the equation,
especially if an experimental example about power factors and
resonance in LC circuits specifically includes a transformer to power
the experimental example?

5. If in addition to adding L1 to the primary I add an inductor L2
likewise across the secondary circuit to match the resonant frequency
of the primary circuit, does a difference in the inductive reactances
of Lp and Ls draw power? Or is resonant impedance matching between L1,
C1 and L2, C2 more important?

6. The manner in which I phrased Number 5 might be confusing. To
paraphrase the question, do I want to match the resonant frequencies
of Lpt, C1 and Lst, C2 or the resonant frequencies of L1, C1 and L2,
C2?
If I understand it correctly, I would want C2 and L2 to resonant in
parallel to draw minimum power at the load. In an ideal circuit with
ideal components, this would present infinite impedance (an open
circuit). I'm still not quite sure how Ls factors into the equation of
the frequency at which the secondary will draw minimum power at the
load, but I would deduce that it doesn't.

7. I don't have inductance values for the 80T:2500T transformer in the
power supply, but I do have a multimeter with a built-in inductance
meter. I don't think I can measure the primary or secondary
inductances for frequency-reactance calculations without revoming the
transformer from the unit. Right?
Yesterday, with the help of a friend, after removing T1 from the
circuit, I measured the oc and sc inductances of both Lp and Ls

STILL UNANSWERED QUESTIONS

8. Are frequency-impedance calculations based on open-circuit or short-
circuit inductance measurements or neither? (I can't seem to find the
answer to this one online or in my references.) The relationship
between open- and short-circuit specs would lead me to believe that
calculation would be based on the short-circuit inductance, but I
don't want to guess.

2. I see a parallel RLC circuit consisting of C7, R8 and Ls. If I
adequately described the circuit, would this statement be accurate?

4. Back to the power supply schematic, is there any reason I couldn't
choose the resonant frequency of the primary LC with an inductor L1
and a resistor Rx (matching the time constant of C7 and R9) parallel
to Lp and parallel to C7--R9?

(Why would I want to do that? I can think of a few reasons. First,
according to my calculations, if I understand it all correctly,
raising the resonant frequency of the primary with an extra parallel
inductor will raise the reactance of Lp, effectively reducing the VA
across the primary. Since I don't have a datasheet or VA rating for
the transformer and don't look forward to dealing with the company for
the answers, VA could be important, especially on the secondary coil.
Also, the unit was engineered for capacitive loads falling within a
specific range of capacitances that might not work for my experiments.
Furthermore, it might help me with impedance matching between the
primary and secondary.)
Of course, I could accomplish the same goal by changing C7. As I
mentioned, I need to go over the math again to determine if I truly
need to do adjust the LC to the greater capacitance on the secondary
if I've already matched that load with the aid of an additional
inductor. I'm more concerned about the VA across the secondary at
resonance than about the VA across the primary. However, I still need
to be concerned about power at C7, Lp. suppose the question still
stands. Is there any reason that choosing the resonant frequency with
an inductor across C7 and R8 is a bad idea?
 

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