R
Robert Baer
Guest
Mine quit - no vertical output.
Ideas? quotes? Etc?
Thanks.
Ideas? quotes? Etc?
Thanks.
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Michael Terrell
Guest
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 9:23:00 PM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:
Join the old Tekscopes group. It moved from Yahoo to GroupsIO. The people who repair old Tektronix gear are there. Unlike Usenet, they do not tolerate foul language and insults, so some of the people on this group would be banned in a hurry. Some members offer kits to make extenders for the 7000 series of scopes.
https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/topics
http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Main_Page has links to places where you can download manuals.
Mine quit - no vertical output.
Ideas? quotes? Etc?
Join the old Tekscopes group. It moved from Yahoo to GroupsIO. The people who repair old Tektronix gear are there. Unlike Usenet, they do not tolerate foul language and insults, so some of the people on this group would be banned in a hurry. Some members offer kits to make extenders for the 7000 series of scopes.
https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/topics
http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Main_Page has links to places where you can download manuals.
Guest
On Sat, 2 May 2020 18:22:52 -0700, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
What do you use a curve tracer for?
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
Science teaches us to doubt.
Claude Bernard
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
Ideas? quotes? Etc?
Thanks.
What do you use a curve tracer for?
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
Science teaches us to doubt.
Claude Bernard
Guest
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
news:5rcsafpht5liuqgphu6s6egrhr9jh9rl0r@4ax.com:
Testing transistors.
news:5rcsafpht5liuqgphu6s6egrhr9jh9rl0r@4ax.com:
On Sat, 2 May 2020 18:22:52 -0700, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
Ideas? quotes? Etc?
Thanks.
What do you use a curve tracer for?
Testing transistors.
Guest
On Sun, 3 May 2020 03:47:14 +0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
Do you use a curve tracer? I don't.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
Science teaches us to doubt.
Claude Bernard
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
news:5rcsafpht5liuqgphu6s6egrhr9jh9rl0r@4ax.com:
On Sat, 2 May 2020 18:22:52 -0700, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
Ideas? quotes? Etc?
Thanks.
What do you use a curve tracer for?
Testing transistors.
Do you use a curve tracer? I don't.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
Science teaches us to doubt.
Claude Bernard
W
Winfield Hill
Guest
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...
They're pretty handy at times. You get
results a lot faster than with a SMU,
but the SMU gives you precise answers.
--
Thanks,
- Win
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
Robert Baer wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
What do you use a curve tracer for?
Testing transistors.
Do you use a curve tracer? I don't.
They're pretty handy at times. You get
results a lot faster than with a SMU,
but the SMU gives you precise answers.
--
Thanks,
- Win
Guest
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
news:djltaf5kta21gkckte8ob4pqek7u3dfj46@4ax.com:
news:djltaf5kta21gkckte8ob4pqek7u3dfj46@4ax.com:
On Sun, 3 May 2020 03:47:14 +0000 (UTC),
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
news:5rcsafpht5liuqgphu6s6egrhr9jh9rl0r@4ax.com:
On Sat, 2 May 2020 18:22:52 -0700, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
Ideas? quotes? Etc?
Thanks.
What do you use a curve tracer for?
Testing transistors.
Do you use a curve tracer? I don't.
Same reason some folks still like tube amplifiers for their audio.
Guest
On 3 May 2020 07:39:33 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Data sheets generally have the curves for fets. Bipolars aren't very
interesting to curve trace.
I sometimes do a point measurement for something not on a data sheet,
like to measure actual capacitance or breakdown voltages, but a
classic curve tracer might not do those. Like 1800 volts for a SiC
fet, or 0.25 pF for a small diode.
I'd love to have a small USB box that characterized diodes and
transistors, but it would need to do c-v curves and pulsed breakdown
measurements. It would need to be cheap, for infrequent use.
My old Boonton 72 is great for c-v curves. I've been doing that lately
for varicaps. The Skyworks varicaps have 15v breakdown spec, actually
zener at 24 to 47, but the data sheets only have c-v data out to 8
volts. I don't need a curve tracer to measure a diode's forward or
breakdown voltages. A scope curve tracer isn't very quantitative
anyhow.
My old Keithley electrometer is good for pA leakage testing.
Curve tracers were popular for a while when transistors were new, but
I think people lost interest.
We have a few Keysight SMUs. Is there a curve tracer PC program for
those? I could have one of the kids do one in Python.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
Science teaches us to doubt.
Claude Bernard
wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
Robert Baer wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
What do you use a curve tracer for?
Testing transistors.
Do you use a curve tracer? I don't.
They're pretty handy at times. You get
results a lot faster than with a SMU,
but the SMU gives you precise answers.
Data sheets generally have the curves for fets. Bipolars aren't very
interesting to curve trace.
I sometimes do a point measurement for something not on a data sheet,
like to measure actual capacitance or breakdown voltages, but a
classic curve tracer might not do those. Like 1800 volts for a SiC
fet, or 0.25 pF for a small diode.
I'd love to have a small USB box that characterized diodes and
transistors, but it would need to do c-v curves and pulsed breakdown
measurements. It would need to be cheap, for infrequent use.
My old Boonton 72 is great for c-v curves. I've been doing that lately
for varicaps. The Skyworks varicaps have 15v breakdown spec, actually
zener at 24 to 47, but the data sheets only have c-v data out to 8
volts. I don't need a curve tracer to measure a diode's forward or
breakdown voltages. A scope curve tracer isn't very quantitative
anyhow.
My old Keithley electrometer is good for pA leakage testing.
Curve tracers were popular for a while when transistors were new, but
I think people lost interest.
We have a few Keysight SMUs. Is there a curve tracer PC program for
those? I could have one of the kids do one in Python.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
Science teaches us to doubt.
Claude Bernard
P
Phil Hobbs
Guest
On 2020-05-03 10:39, Winfield Hill wrote:
And an HP 4145B gives you the best of both, with four SMUs. (Assuming
you can keep the floppy drive working.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
Robert Baer wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
What do you use a curve tracer for?
Testing transistors.
Do you use a curve tracer? I don't.
They're pretty handy at times. You get
results a lot faster than with a SMU,
but the SMU gives you precise answers.
And an HP 4145B gives you the best of both, with four SMUs. (Assuming
you can keep the floppy drive working.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
R
Robert Baer
Guest
Michael Terrell wrote:
WOW! These guys are sharp and to the point!
Thanks.
Took a quick look at that Tekscopes group.On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 9:23:00 PM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
Ideas? quotes? Etc?
Join the old Tekscopes group. It moved from Yahoo to GroupsIO. The people who repair old Tektronix gear are there. Unlike Usenet, they do not tolerate foul language and insults, so some of the people on this group would be banned in a hurry. Some members offer kits to make extenders for the 7000 series of scopes.
https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/topics
http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Main_Page has links to places where you can download manuals.
WOW! These guys are sharp and to the point!
Thanks.
R
Robert Baer
Guest
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
specs, etc
Part matching, spec conformance/non-conformance, check off-datasheetOn Sat, 2 May 2020 18:22:52 -0700, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
Ideas? quotes? Etc?
Thanks.
What do you use a curve tracer for?
specs, etc
R
Robert Baer
Guest
Winfield Hill wrote:
Spencer Municipal Utilities?
Saint Mary's University of Minnesota?
a web based application?
Sacramento Municipal Utility District?
AHA!
What is an SMU (Source Measure Unit)?
Sometimes one needs more than hip-deep boots for wading...
Southern Methodist University?jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
Robert Baer wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
What do you use a curve tracer for?
Testing transistors.
Do you use a curve tracer? I don't.
They're pretty handy at times. You get
results a lot faster than with a SMU,
but the SMU gives you precise answers.
Spencer Municipal Utilities?
Saint Mary's University of Minnesota?
a web based application?
Sacramento Municipal Utility District?
AHA!
What is an SMU (Source Measure Unit)?
Sometimes one needs more than hip-deep boots for wading...
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Mon, 4 May 2020 12:40:49 -0700, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
Matching soulds iffy, on an analog oscilloscope curve tracer. Better
to design so that any data-sheet-conforming parts work.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 2 May 2020 18:22:52 -0700, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
Ideas? quotes? Etc?
Thanks.
What do you use a curve tracer for?
Part matching, spec conformance/non-conformance, check off-datasheet
specs, etc
Matching soulds iffy, on an analog oscilloscope curve tracer. Better
to design so that any data-sheet-conforming parts work.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Mon, 4 May 2020 12:56:51 -0700, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
Yes. Pronounced smooo, rimes with cow noise.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
Winfield Hill wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
Robert Baer wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
What do you use a curve tracer for?
Testing transistors.
Do you use a curve tracer? I don't.
They're pretty handy at times. You get
results a lot faster than with a SMU,
but the SMU gives you precise answers.
Southern Methodist University?
Spencer Municipal Utilities?
Saint Mary's University of Minnesota?
a web based application?
Sacramento Municipal Utility District?
AHA!
What is an SMU (Source Measure Unit)?
Sometimes one needs more than hip-deep boots for wading...
Yes. Pronounced smooo, rimes with cow noise.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
M
Michael Terrell
Guest
On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 3:37:52 PM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:
You're welcome.
Michael Terrell wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 9:23:00 PM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
Ideas? quotes? Etc?
Join the old Tekscopes group. It moved from Yahoo to GroupsIO. The people who repair old Tektronix gear are there. Unlike Usenet, they do not tolerate foul language and insults, so some of the people on this group would be banned in a hurry. Some members offer kits to make extenders for the 7000 series of scopes.
https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/topics
http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Main_Page has links to places where you can download manuals.
Took a quick look at that Tekscopes group.
WOW! These guys are sharp and to the point!
Thanks.
You're welcome.
R
Robert Baer
Guest
John Larkin wrote:
non-meaningful value.
For example, there is no bipolar transistor datasheet spec for the
E-B junction zener voltage; "5V max" if at all.
I dare you to find a bipolar with a 6.2V zener breakdown by using the
datasheet.
Or 9.5V zener breakdown.
Tempco of that Vz?
So you gotta measure and best with curve tracer so you know how
sharp, if avalanches, etc.
And one can easily match within 10mV.
On some of my designs, the part datasheet has no spec or aOn Mon, 4 May 2020 12:40:49 -0700, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 2 May 2020 18:22:52 -0700, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
Ideas? quotes? Etc?
Thanks.
What do you use a curve tracer for?
Part matching, spec conformance/non-conformance, check off-datasheet
specs, etc
Matching soulds iffy, on an analog oscilloscope curve tracer. Better
to design so that any data-sheet-conforming parts work.
non-meaningful value.
For example, there is no bipolar transistor datasheet spec for the
E-B junction zener voltage; "5V max" if at all.
I dare you to find a bipolar with a 6.2V zener breakdown by using the
datasheet.
Or 9.5V zener breakdown.
Tempco of that Vz?
So you gotta measure and best with curve tracer so you know how
sharp, if avalanches, etc.
And one can easily match within 10mV.
R
Robert Baer
Guest
Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2020-05-03 10:39, Winfield Hill wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
Robert Baer wrote:
  Mine quit - no vertical output.
What do you use a curve tracer for?
 Testing transistors.
Do you use a curve tracer? I don't.
 They're pretty handy at times. You get
 results a lot faster than with a SMU,
 but the SMU gives you precise answers.
And an HP 4145B gives you the best of both, with four SMUs. (Assuming
you can keep the floppy drive working.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Thanks!!!
Guest
Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote in
news:Sz1sG.273918$mf1.137923@fx45.iad:
Matching and culling transistor pairs (using a curve tracer) has
been around since before stereo amplifiers.
news:Sz1sG.273918$mf1.137923@fx45.iad:
John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 4 May 2020 12:40:49 -0700, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 2 May 2020 18:22:52 -0700, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
Ideas? quotes? Etc?
Thanks.
What do you use a curve tracer for?
Part matching, spec conformance/non-conformance, check
off-datasheet
specs, etc
Matching soulds iffy, on an analog oscilloscope curve tracer.
Better to design so that any data-sheet-conforming parts work.
On some of my designs, the part datasheet has no spec or a
non-meaningful value.
For example, there is no bipolar transistor datasheet spec for
the
E-B junction zener voltage; "5V max" if at all.
I dare you to find a bipolar with a 6.2V zener breakdown by
using the
datasheet.
Or 9.5V zener breakdown.
Tempco of that Vz?
So you gotta measure and best with curve tracer so you know how
sharp, if avalanches, etc.
And one can easily match within 10mV.
Matching and culling transistor pairs (using a curve tracer) has
been around since before stereo amplifiers.
Guest
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 9:59:10 PM UTC-4, Michael Terrell wrote:
Ditto - been hanging out in that group for years. Lots of SME's with real world experience. Interesting to hear stories from the ppl that did the design/fab/testing in the tek labs.
If you wanna know about common failure modes of tek scopes, where to find replacement parts, etc. that is the place to hang
J
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 9:23:00 PM UTC-4, Robert Baer wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
Ideas? quotes? Etc?
Join the old Tekscopes group. It moved from Yahoo to GroupsIO. The people who repair old Tektronix gear are there. Unlike Usenet, they do not tolerate foul language and insults, so some of the people on this group would be banned in a hurry. Some members offer kits to make extenders for the 7000 series of scopes.
https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/topics
http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Main_Page has links to places where you can download manuals.
Ditto - been hanging out in that group for years. Lots of SME's with real world experience. Interesting to hear stories from the ppl that did the design/fab/testing in the tek labs.
If you wanna know about common failure modes of tek scopes, where to find replacement parts, etc. that is the place to hang
J
Guest
On Mon, 4 May 2020 16:29:49 -0700, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
Can you read Vz and the tempco of Vz, to millivolts, off the screen of
an analog scope? I can do that easily on a DVM. I think the diode
range of my Fluke is 1 mA up to 10 volts.
If you use a be junction as a zener, you should be careful that it's
repeatable.
Some transistors are accidentally 6.2v "reference zeners" from
collector to emitter with the base open. But's that's probably not
suited to production.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
Science teaches us to doubt.
Claude Bernard
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 4 May 2020 12:40:49 -0700, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Sat, 2 May 2020 18:22:52 -0700, Robert Baer
robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:
Mine quit - no vertical output.
Ideas? quotes? Etc?
Thanks.
What do you use a curve tracer for?
Part matching, spec conformance/non-conformance, check off-datasheet
specs, etc
Matching soulds iffy, on an analog oscilloscope curve tracer. Better
to design so that any data-sheet-conforming parts work.
On some of my designs, the part datasheet has no spec or a
non-meaningful value.
For example, there is no bipolar transistor datasheet spec for the
E-B junction zener voltage; "5V max" if at all.
I dare you to find a bipolar with a 6.2V zener breakdown by using the
datasheet.
Or 9.5V zener breakdown.
Tempco of that Vz?
So you gotta measure and best with curve tracer so you know how
sharp, if avalanches, etc.
And one can easily match within 10mV.
Can you read Vz and the tempco of Vz, to millivolts, off the screen of
an analog scope? I can do that easily on a DVM. I think the diode
range of my Fluke is 1 mA up to 10 volts.
If you use a be junction as a zener, you should be careful that it's
repeatable.
Some transistors are accidentally 6.2v "reference zeners" from
collector to emitter with the base open. But's that's probably not
suited to production.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
Science teaches us to doubt.
Claude Bernard