Reflowing a BGA?

[mike]

I bought a Thinkpad X31.
Fails video memory test and the image looks like
it's in 8-bit color mode.
Pushing hard on the motherboard fixes the image.
Lots of googling uncovers many people who've reflowed
the nVidea BGA chip by means varying from oven to hot
air to a blowtorch.
The bad news about this one is that the video BGA
and a RAM BGA are sitting on a carrier that's looks
like it's made out of circuit board material and is also
BGA'd to the mother board.

I'm not optimistic about getting the heat thru the chips
and the carrier to the motherboard without burning up something.

The thing works well enough to surf the web or control stuff.
I'd hate to brick it. Certainly not worth a replacement motherboard
that has or will soon have the same problem.

Anybody got experience reflowing this dual-stack kind of thing?

Thanks,
mike

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 09:21:16 -0700, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:

I bought a Thinkpad X31.

I have one on the bench as I write. Nice machine with a few design
defects. The plastic case is really flimsy and easy to crack along
the sides. I have yet to see an X30, X31, or X32 that does NOT have a
crack in the case somewhere. Plastic epoxy will fix it if you don't
care what the result looks like. Mine resembles Frankenstein:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Thinkpad-X31.jpg>
X30 on the left, X31 on the right.

Fails video memory test and the image looks like
it's in 8-bit color mode.
Pushing hard on the motherboard fixes the image.
Lots of googling uncovers many people who've reflowed
the nVidea BGA chip by means varying from oven to hot
air to a blowtorch.

The X31 uses an ATI Radeo Mobile 7000 video chip.
<http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X31>

Before you blame the video chip, carefully inspect the video ribbon
cable. I've had failures with that cable that looked much like a
video chip problem. They're available on eBay for about $7.

The bad news about this one is that the video BGA
and a RAM BGA are sitting on a carrier that's looks
like it's made out of circuit board material and is also
BGA'd to the mother board.

Yep, that's the problem. Hit it with too much heat and it will melt
or burn (I forgot which). I monitor the heat with an IR thermometer.
Not hugely accurate because it's mostly measuring the temperature of
the hot air gun tip, but good enough. It really doesn't take much
heat or time to reflow the solder with the "skirt" of PCB material
around the BGA. Work fast. This should give you an idea of what to
expect:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJlgPbELL0E>
(Drivel: Not the giant blob of Arctic Silver on top of the CPU to the
right. That's about 100 times too much. Oh well).

Incidentally, I just hot air reflowed and fixed 4 out of 6 HP
JetDirect J4169A cards, which have the same style BGA chip.

I'm not optimistic about getting the heat thru the chips
and the carrier to the motherboard without burning up something.

Rosin flux really helps. It largely prevents oxidation (cold solder
joint). It conducts the heat to odd places. It explodes if you get
it too hot.

In my limited experience, a real hot air desoldering station is a
must. You don't really need all the BGA nozzles as a small 3mm nozzle
is usually sufficient. I bought mine on eBay for about $80 with 4
nozzles. I suggest you practice on an old PCB before trying the real
thing. Getting the temperature right and how fast you move the
nozzle, require some practice.

The thing works well enough to surf the web or control stuff.
I'd hate to brick it. Certainly not worth a replacement motherboard
that has or will soon have the same problem.

It's worth saving.

Anybody got experience reflowing this dual-stack kind of thing?

Yep. My success rate was about 2 out of 5 motherboards with that
configuration. Can't win them all. You have a better chance than
most because you can sorta tell where to reflow.

A few hints:
1. Don't push down on the "skirt" while hot. That will cause the
solder balls to migrate across adjacent pads.
2. Use flux even if it makes a mess. I messy working computer is
better than a clean brick.
3. Build a heat shield out of aluminum foil. The hot air will melt
adjacent plastic quite easily.
4. Give it time to cool down.

Good luck.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

 

[mike]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 09:21:16 -0700, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:

I bought a Thinkpad X31.

I have one on the bench as I write. Nice machine with a few design
defects. The plastic case is really flimsy and easy to crack along
the sides. I have yet to see an X30, X31, or X32 that does NOT have a
crack in the case somewhere. Plastic epoxy will fix it if you don't
care what the result looks like. Mine resembles Frankenstein:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Thinkpad-X31.jpg
X30 on the left, X31 on the right.

Fails video memory test and the image looks like
it's in 8-bit color mode.
Pushing hard on the motherboard fixes the image.
Lots of googling uncovers many people who've reflowed
the nVidea BGA chip by means varying from oven to hot
air to a blowtorch.

The X31 uses an ATI Radeo Mobile 7000 video chip.
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X31

Before you blame the video chip, carefully inspect the video ribbon
cable. I've had failures with that cable that looked much like a
video chip problem. They're available on eBay for about $7.

I discounted the ribbon cable because it fails video ram test
and because it has the same problem at the VGA output connector on the back.
Is there something I'm missing?

The bad news about this one is that the video BGA
and a RAM BGA are sitting on a carrier that's looks
like it's made out of circuit board material and is also
BGA'd to the mother board.

Yep, that's the problem. Hit it with too much heat and it will melt
or burn (I forgot which). I monitor the heat with an IR thermometer.
Not hugely accurate because it's mostly measuring the temperature of
the hot air gun tip, but good enough. It really doesn't take much
heat or time to reflow the solder with the "skirt" of PCB material
around the BGA. Work fast. This should give you an idea of what to
expect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJlgPbELL0E
(Drivel: Not the giant blob of Arctic Silver on top of the CPU to the
right. That's about 100 times too much. Oh well).

I watched a bunch of videos, including that one.
Difference is that they all have a BGA mounted directly to the main board.
That intermediate carrier is the wild card. I don't know what to
expect except that it's a thermal insulator and have nothing equivalent
to practice on.
I haven't taken it apart far enough to try to determine if the chip
or the carrier is where the fault lies.

Incidentally, I just hot air reflowed and fixed 4 out of 6 HP
JetDirect J4169A cards, which have the same style BGA chip.

I'm not optimistic about getting the heat thru the chips
and the carrier to the motherboard without burning up something.

Rosin flux really helps. It largely prevents oxidation (cold solder
joint). It conducts the heat to odd places. It explodes if you get
it too hot.

In my limited experience, a real hot air desoldering station is a
must.
I have three temperature controlled air guns. I've made air nozzles

with baffles in the past...way past...to rework gull-wing and J-leaded
packages.
I've got zero experience with BGA and even less with two-layer stacks
of BGA.

I thought I'd build a hollow platform out of bricks and blast it from
underneath with a power-controlled heat gun while I watched the pre-heat
temperature.
Then hit it from the top to reflow it. Sounds like reflow temp
is about 260C. Any recommendations on what air temperature
I oughta use to get there?

You don't really need all the BGA nozzles as a small 3mm nozzle

is usually sufficient. I bought mine on eBay for about $80 with 4
nozzles. I suggest you practice on an old PCB before trying the real
thing. Getting the temperature right and how fast you move the
nozzle, require some practice.

The thing works well enough to surf the web or control stuff.
I'd hate to brick it. Certainly not worth a replacement motherboard
that has or will soon have the same problem.

It's worth saving.

Anybody got experience reflowing this dual-stack kind of thing?

Yep. My success rate was about 2 out of 5 motherboards with that
configuration. Can't win them all. You have a better chance than
most because you can sorta tell where to reflow.


A few hints:
1. Don't push down on the "skirt" while hot. That will cause the
solder balls to migrate across adjacent pads.
2. Use flux even if it makes a mess. I messy working computer is
better than a clean brick.
3. Build a heat shield out of aluminum foil. The hot air will melt
adjacent plastic quite easily.
4. Give it time to cool down.

Good luck.

Thanks, I gotta go find some flux...

mike

 

[mike]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 09:21:16 -0700, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:

I bought a Thinkpad X31.

I have one on the bench as I write. Nice machine with a few design
defects. The plastic case is really flimsy and easy to crack along
the sides. I have yet to see an X30, X31, or X32 that does NOT have a
crack in the case somewhere. Plastic epoxy will fix it if you don't
care what the result looks like. Mine resembles Frankenstein:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Thinkpad-X31.jpg
X30 on the left, X31 on the right.

Fails video memory test and the image looks like
it's in 8-bit color mode.
Pushing hard on the motherboard fixes the image.
Lots of googling uncovers many people who've reflowed
the nVidea BGA chip by means varying from oven to hot
air to a blowtorch.

The X31 uses an ATI Radeo Mobile 7000 video chip.
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X31

Before you blame the video chip, carefully inspect the video ribbon
cable. I've had failures with that cable that looked much like a
video chip problem. They're available on eBay for about $7.

The bad news about this one is that the video BGA
and a RAM BGA are sitting on a carrier that's looks
like it's made out of circuit board material and is also
BGA'd to the mother board.

Yep, that's the problem. Hit it with too much heat and it will melt
or burn (I forgot which). I monitor the heat with an IR thermometer.
Not hugely accurate because it's mostly measuring the temperature of
the hot air gun tip, but good enough. It really doesn't take much
heat or time to reflow the solder with the "skirt" of PCB material
around the BGA. Work fast. This should give you an idea of what to
expect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJlgPbELL0E
(Drivel: Not the giant blob of Arctic Silver on top of the CPU to the
right. That's about 100 times too much. Oh well).

Incidentally, I just hot air reflowed and fixed 4 out of 6 HP
JetDirect J4169A cards, which have the same style BGA chip.

I'm not optimistic about getting the heat thru the chips
and the carrier to the motherboard without burning up something.

Rosin flux really helps. It largely prevents oxidation (cold solder
joint). It conducts the heat to odd places. It explodes if you get
it too hot.

In my limited experience, a real hot air desoldering station is a
must. You don't really need all the BGA nozzles as a small 3mm nozzle
is usually sufficient. I bought mine on eBay for about $80 with 4
nozzles. I suggest you practice on an old PCB before trying the real
thing. Getting the temperature right and how fast you move the
nozzle, require some practice.

The thing works well enough to surf the web or control stuff.
I'd hate to brick it. Certainly not worth a replacement motherboard
that has or will soon have the same problem.

It's worth saving.

Anybody got experience reflowing this dual-stack kind of thing?

Yep. My success rate was about 2 out of 5 motherboards with that
configuration. Can't win them all. You have a better chance than
most because you can sorta tell where to reflow.

A few hints:
1. Don't push down on the "skirt" while hot. That will cause the
solder balls to migrate across adjacent pads.
2. Use flux even if it makes a mess. I messy working computer is
better than a clean brick.
3. Build a heat shield out of aluminum foil. The hot air will melt
adjacent plastic quite easily.
4. Give it time to cool down.

Good luck.

Flux turned out to be a much more difficult question than I thought.

What flux do you recommend?

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 21:29:05 -0700, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I discounted the ribbon cable because it fails video ram test
and because it has the same problem at the VGA output connector on the back.
Is there something I'm missing?

Ok. It's not the ribbon cable.

I watched a bunch of videos, including that one.
Difference is that they all have a BGA mounted directly to the main board.
That intermediate carrier is the wild card. I don't know what to
expect except that it's a thermal insulator and have nothing equivalent
to practice on.

Well, the real test is at what point the solder melts. Try taking
small pieces of solder and scattering them onto a PCB. You might have
to glue them down with some Cyanoacrylate adhesive. Then play with
the hot air SMT rework gun to see what it takes to melt the solder.

I haven't taken it apart far enough to try to determine if the chip
or the carrier is where the fault lies.

I'll remove the kbd from my A31 and see what I can find. I don't
recall seeing a video carrier board, but it's possible. Hopefully,
you wont have to remove the PCB in order to do the reflow.

I have three temperature controlled air guns. I've made air nozzles
with baffles in the past...way past...to rework gull-wing and J-leaded
packages.
I've got zero experience with BGA and even less with two-layer stacks
of BGA.

Good. You have proper tools. Think of it as using a soldering iron
made of air. Practice with any PCB at melting solder and removing
parts. It's not a perfect analogy of the X31, but it will help with
the temperature and timing. I don't recall if the X31 uses ROHS high
temp solder, or leaded low temp.

I thought I'd build a hollow platform out of bricks and blast it from
underneath with a power-controlled heat gun while I watched the pre-heat
temperature.

I don't know if that will work. You're blowing air into a dead end
"box" canyon, where most of the air is going to blow back towards the
nozzle. It will probably spray hot air in a much larger area than
intended. Try doing it very quickly, and check the result with a fast
acting contact thermometer (thermocouple and DVM).

Then hit it from the top to reflow it. Sounds like reflow temp
is about 260C. Any recommendations on what air temperature
I oughta use to get there?

Nope, but I know how to check. Same trick with the tiny piece of
solder. Put it where it won't do any damage if it melts. Tack it
down with some glue. Add flux. When it melts, you're hot enough.

Thanks, I gotta go find some flux...

Try blowing hot air at a puddle of flux to give you a clue what it
will do. Most use alcohol, which might catch fire.

Lenovo X31 hardware service manual:
<http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/39t6189.pdf>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 21:43:56 -0700, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:

Flux turned out to be a much more difficult question than I thought.
What flux do you recommend?

Well, here a part with the orthodoxy. Most experts recommend using
paste flux, which helps keep things in place, and does not volatize
when heated. For example:
<http://www.circuitnet.com/articles/article_70588.shtml>
My guess(tm) is that the above advice assumes that the component to be
reflow soldered is a loose part, where the flux can be smeared onto
the part prior to assembly. That's not the case with the in place
rework as we're discussing.

I tried paste flux, but found that I couldn't get it to go *UNDER* the
BGA, where it was needed most. Same problem when cleaning. The paste
flux was hell to remove with mild solvents (alcohol) while the liquid
flux came off easily.

Not knowing any better, I just used whatever I had handy, which was GC
Liquid Solder Flux 10-4202
<http://www.altex.com/GC-Liquid-Solder-Flux-2-oz-10-4202-P139823.aspx>

Googling a little, I find that the current fashion is no-clean Kester
951 non-rosin flux for BGA rework. For example:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/270623217792>
Many web page claim that 951 was specifically designed for BGA rework,
but I see no indication of that in the data sheet:
<http://www.kester.com/SideMenu/Products/WaveSolderingMaterials/Fluxes/tabid/250/Default.aspx>

Anyway, the flux cheap enough to try various potions and compare
effectiveness.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 23:28:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

More on BGA flux use:
<http://www.circuitnet.com/articles/article_80293.shtml>
I hadn't thought of bulding a "dam" to keep the liquid flux in place,
but I'll give it a try next time.

Rework Fluxes:
<http://www.zeph.com/zephlux.htm>
<http://www.coprise.com/Rework_Liquid_Flux_Page.html>
<http://www.aimsolder.com/Products/NoClean/NC280LowResidueLiquidReworkFlux.aspx>
etc...

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[mike]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 21:43:56 -0700, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:

Flux turned out to be a much more difficult question than I thought.
What flux do you recommend?

Well, here a part with the orthodoxy. Most experts recommend using
paste flux, which helps keep things in place, and does not volatize
when heated. For example:
http://www.circuitnet.com/articles/article_70588.shtml
My guess(tm) is that the above advice assumes that the component to be
reflow soldered is a loose part, where the flux can be smeared onto
the part prior to assembly. That's not the case with the in place
rework as we're discussing.

I tried paste flux, but found that I couldn't get it to go *UNDER* the
BGA, where it was needed most. Same problem when cleaning. The paste
flux was hell to remove with mild solvents (alcohol) while the liquid
flux came off easily.

Not knowing any better, I just used whatever I had handy, which was GC
Liquid Solder Flux 10-4202
http://www.altex.com/GC-Liquid-Solder-Flux-2-oz-10-4202-P139823.aspx

Googling a little, I find that the current fashion is no-clean Kester
951 non-rosin flux for BGA rework. For example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/270623217792
Many web page claim that 951 was specifically designed for BGA rework,
but I see no indication of that in the data sheet:
http://www.kester.com/SideMenu/Products/WaveSolderingMaterials/Fluxes/tabid/250/Default.aspx

Anyway, the flux cheap enough to try various potions and compare
effectiveness.


Thanks for the inputs.

Trying different stuff sounds good on the surface, but I've only got one
shot
at this ;-)

I find it annoying, although not unexpected, that the cost of a bottle
of flux is 8X the cost of the laptop. Sigh...

mike

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 08 Jul 2011 07:49:05 -0700, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:

I find it annoying, although not unexpected, that the cost of a bottle
of flux is 8X the cost of the laptop. Sigh...

Huh? I paid $20 for my X31, but had to replace the HD, add RAM, and
upgrade the 2100b wireless to a 2200bg card. My guess is I have about
$100 into it. Ebay completed auctions show selling prices of $90 to
$180 so this is not going to make me rich.

Incidentally, there are motherboards for sale for about $45 which is
probably too high to use as a replacement or practice board.

If the price of flux is a problem, you could also make your own.
<http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-your-own-Eco-friendly-soldering-flux/>
I've actually done this and find that it somewhat works. The problem
was the sticky mess it created. For pine sap, I just went to the
local lumber yard and got permission to "sample" the sap oozing from
the cheap pine lumber. Very little sap is required. My guess is
about 5% solids in solution. I found that I had to add some HCL acid,
which made it "highly activated" flux and required cleaning after use.

I had better luck buying some rosin paste flux from the local hardware
store and dilluting it in denatured alcohol. It worked about the same
as the home made variety, but did not require filtering out the sap
solids, bugs, wood debris, dirt, etc.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Smitty Two]

In article <iv75f9$mev$1@dont-email.me>, mike <spamme9@gmail.com>
wrote:

I find it annoying, although not unexpected, that the cost of a bottle
of flux is 8X the cost of the laptop. Sigh...

As an electronic assembly house, I buy flux by the gallon. Find such an
outfit in your area and I'd bet they'd give you an ounce or two for
nothing. I would.

 

[mike]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 08 Jul 2011 07:49:05 -0700, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:

I find it annoying, although not unexpected, that the cost of a bottle
of flux is 8X the cost of the laptop. Sigh...

Huh? I paid $20 for my X31, but had to replace the HD, add RAM, and
upgrade the 2100b wireless to a 2200bg card. My guess is I have about
$100 into it. Ebay completed auctions show selling prices of $90 to
$180 so this is not going to make me rich.

Incidentally, there are motherboards for sale for about $45 which is
probably too high to use as a replacement or practice board.

I buy computers when they're a buck and I think I can fix 'em up.
I do it mostly for the challenge and to give me something to do.

Price of flux isn't a "problem", it's an annoyance.
Making your own is interesting. Wonder what my neighbor would say
if he caught me gnawing on his pine tree?
I happened by a parts store today, but they didn't have anything
I thought would work.
I'll just order some from ebay.

If the price of flux is a problem, you could also make your own.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-your-own-Eco-friendly-soldering-flux/
I've actually done this and find that it somewhat works. The problem
was the sticky mess it created. For pine sap, I just went to the
local lumber yard and got permission to "sample" the sap oozing from
the cheap pine lumber. Very little sap is required. My guess is
about 5% solids in solution. I found that I had to add some HCL acid,
which made it "highly activated" flux and required cleaning after use.

I had better luck buying some rosin paste flux from the local hardware
store and dilluting it in denatured alcohol. It worked about the same
as the home made variety, but did not require filtering out the sap
solids, bugs, wood debris, dirt, etc.

 

[mike]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 09:21:16 -0700, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:

I bought a Thinkpad X31.

I have one on the bench as I write. Nice machine with a few design
defects. The plastic case is really flimsy and easy to crack along
the sides. I have yet to see an X30, X31, or X32 that does NOT have a
crack in the case somewhere. Plastic epoxy will fix it if you don't
care what the result looks like. Mine resembles Frankenstein:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Thinkpad-X31.jpg
X30 on the left, X31 on the right.

Fails video memory test and the image looks like
it's in 8-bit color mode.
Pushing hard on the motherboard fixes the image.
Lots of googling uncovers many people who've reflowed
the nVidea BGA chip by means varying from oven to hot
air to a blowtorch.

The X31 uses an ATI Radeo Mobile 7000 video chip.
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X31

Before you blame the video chip, carefully inspect the video ribbon
cable. I've had failures with that cable that looked much like a
video chip problem. They're available on eBay for about $7.

The bad news about this one is that the video BGA
and a RAM BGA are sitting on a carrier that's looks
like it's made out of circuit board material and is also
BGA'd to the mother board.

Yep, that's the problem. Hit it with too much heat and it will melt
or burn (I forgot which). I monitor the heat with an IR thermometer.
Not hugely accurate because it's mostly measuring the temperature of
the hot air gun tip, but good enough. It really doesn't take much
heat or time to reflow the solder with the "skirt" of PCB material
around the BGA. Work fast. This should give you an idea of what to
expect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJlgPbELL0E
(Drivel: Not the giant blob of Arctic Silver on top of the CPU to the
right. That's about 100 times too much. Oh well).

Incidentally, I just hot air reflowed and fixed 4 out of 6 HP
JetDirect J4169A cards, which have the same style BGA chip.

I'm not optimistic about getting the heat thru the chips
and the carrier to the motherboard without burning up something.

Rosin flux really helps. It largely prevents oxidation (cold solder
joint). It conducts the heat to odd places. It explodes if you get
it too hot.

In my limited experience, a real hot air desoldering station is a
must. You don't really need all the BGA nozzles as a small 3mm nozzle
is usually sufficient. I bought mine on eBay for about $80 with 4
nozzles. I suggest you practice on an old PCB before trying the real
thing. Getting the temperature right and how fast you move the
nozzle, require some practice.

The thing works well enough to surf the web or control stuff.
I'd hate to brick it. Certainly not worth a replacement motherboard
that has or will soon have the same problem.

It's worth saving.

Anybody got experience reflowing this dual-stack kind of thing?

Yep. My success rate was about 2 out of 5 motherboards with that
configuration. Can't win them all. You have a better chance than
most because you can sorta tell where to reflow.

A few hints:
1. Don't push down on the "skirt" while hot. That will cause the
solder balls to migrate across adjacent pads.
2. Use flux even if it makes a mess. I messy working computer is
better than a clean brick.
3. Build a heat shield out of aluminum foil. The hot air will melt
adjacent plastic quite easily.
4. Give it time to cool down.

Good luck.

Thanks for the inputs.

Flux arrived.
I practiced on a TiVo board. Had to get the air temp over 350C to get
enough heat to desolder a BGA.
I then took a shot at the laptop.
The intermediate board curled up on the corner when I heated it. I
feared I'd lost connection on that corner. Probably shoulda dropped the
temp cause of the thinner intermediate board.

When I tried to run it, I got no video. My heart sank...
I didn't think I needed to plug in the boards for wifi, firewire
and modem, but I took a shot and reassembled the whole thing.
IT WORKS.

Got any suggestions for a blower for a hot air gun.
This Leister is a 600W element and temperature regulator
at the end of a 10-foot air hose. They ran the power wire
down the center of the air hose and it provides a lot of back pressure.
It's designed to run off shop compressed air. My 3/4HP compressor
won't supply as much flow as I like. I haven't found anything that
can give me more volume against the back pressure. I even tried a 14"
blower designed for blow-up advertising devices. No luck. Back pressure
just stalls the impeller and the flow drops to nearly nothing.
Can't really justify a bigger air compressor and a new circuit to run it
for this.

Does it make sense to put fans in series to get better flow under
pressure? I gots lotsa fans.

Ideas?
Thanks,mike

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 21:55:43 -0700, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:

I practiced on a TiVo board. Had to get the air temp over 350C to get
enough heat to desolder a BGA.

Argh. Too hot. It should about 220C for leaded and about 230C for
lead free BGA.
<http://www.rayprasad.com/home/rp1/page_71/smt_-_lead-free_reflow_profile_development__part_2.html>
This article also covers some other issues (mixing solder types).

I then took a shot at the laptop.
The intermediate board curled up on the corner when I heated it. I
feared I'd lost connection on that corner. Probably shoulda dropped the
temp cause of the thinner intermediate board.

Again, too hot and possibly not moving the hot air gun fast enough. At
that temperature, if you stay at one position for too long, you'll
burn the board. I've reflowed similar sandwiches on JetDirect boards,
and didn't have the edges curled.

When I tried to run it, I got no video. My heart sank...
I didn't think I needed to plug in the boards for wifi, firewire
and modem, but I took a shot and reassembled the whole thing.
IT WORKS.

Hold on. Have you tried flexing the board? You may have a mechanical
contact connection, but not a soldered connection. You might also
break some other BGA connections flexing the board, so you decide if
it's worthwhile.

Got any suggestions for a blower for a hot air gun.
This Leister is a 600W element and temperature regulator
at the end of a 10-foot air hose. They ran the power wire
down the center of the air hose and it provides a lot of back pressure.

The back pressure doesn't matter much. I use a little air as
possible. The only thing the air does is move the heat from the air
gun heater, to the PCB. Too much air results in premature cooling.
Too little air doesn't move enough heat or heats too slowly. If
there's some back pressure, and the reflected air remains fairly cool,
don't worry about it.

It's designed to run off shop compressed air.

Ummm... I hope it wasn't designed to run directly off a 150 psi
manifold. Got a URL for this thing? One of these?
<http://www.leister.com/en/processheat-product.html?catalog=c70f3b1c-b3d6-4c64-88be-6d7b5cdc7502>
I couldn't find anything that matches your description. Perhaps if
you supplied a model number?

My 3/4HP compressor
won't supply as much flow as I like.

Assuming a piston type compressor, 3/4HP should give you about 5 cubic
ft/min. That should be enough to peel parts off the top of the board
if you get too close. No way do you need that much air for
desoldering. You're not trying to blow hot solder balls all over the
board.

I haven't found anything that
can give me more volume against the back pressure. I even tried a 14"
blower designed for blow-up advertising devices. No luck. Back pressure
just stalls the impeller and the flow drops to nearly nothing.

What size nozzle are you using? That's not normal. Looking at the
various Leister models, it appears that they were not intended for use
with a small diameter nozzle.

Can't really justify a bigger air compressor and a new circuit to run it
for this.

Does it make sense to put fans in series to get better flow under
pressure? I gots lotsa fans.

Dunno. Offhand, I don't think so.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[mike]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 21:55:43 -0700, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:

I practiced on a TiVo board. Had to get the air temp over 350C to get
enough heat to desolder a BGA.

Argh. Too hot. It should about 220C for leaded and about 230C for
lead free BGA.

Well, I asked you about this before.
I used an IR thermometer to monitor the chip temperature and stopped
heating when it got to 220C. I didn't time it, but it seemed like it took
a long time to get there with 350C air temperature.

When I practiced on the tivo, I tried air at 260C and could never get
the chip over 150C. 350C worked nicely, but it didn't have the
intermediate substrate.

The thing is still working. Good enough for me.

http://www.rayprasad.com/home/rp1/page_71/smt_-_lead-free_reflow_profile_development__part_2.html
This article also covers some other issues (mixing solder types).

I then took a shot at the laptop.
The intermediate board curled up on the corner when I heated it. I
feared I'd lost connection on that corner. Probably shoulda dropped the
temp cause of the thinner intermediate board.

Again, too hot and possibly not moving the hot air gun fast enough. At
that temperature, if you stay at one position for too long, you'll
burn the board. I've reflowed similar sandwiches on JetDirect boards,
and didn't have the edges curled.

When I tried to run it, I got no video. My heart sank...
I didn't think I needed to plug in the boards for wifi, firewire
and modem, but I took a shot and reassembled the whole thing.
IT WORKS.

Hold on. Have you tried flexing the board? You may have a mechanical
contact connection, but not a soldered connection. You might also
break some other BGA connections flexing the board, so you decide if
it's worthwhile.

Consensus seems to be that uncontrolled reflowing is a temporary solution
at best. Reballing and reworking with proper equipment is discussed
as the only reliable solution.
Remember, we're talking a dollar laptop. Not like it's the end of the world
if it quits. I hate that darn eraser mouse, so probably won't use it
anyway. I just like to fix stuff.
I can part it out for more than it's worth.

Got any suggestions for a blower for a hot air gun.
This Leister is a 600W element and temperature regulator
at the end of a 10-foot air hose. They ran the power wire
down the center of the air hose and it provides a lot of back pressure.

The back pressure doesn't matter much. I use a little air as
possible. The only thing the air does is move the heat from the air
gun heater, to the PCB. Too much air results in premature cooling.
Too little air doesn't move enough heat or heats too slowly. If
there's some back pressure, and the reflected air remains fairly cool,
don't worry about it.

It's designed to run off shop compressed air.

Ummm... I hope it wasn't designed to run directly off a 150 psi
manifold. Got a URL for this thing? One of these?
http://www.leister.com/en/processheat-product.html?catalog=c70f3b1c-b3d6-4c64-88be-6d7b5cdc7502
I couldn't find anything that matches your description. Perhaps if
you supplied a model number?

My 3/4HP compressor
won't supply as much flow as I like.

Assuming a piston type compressor, 3/4HP should give you about 5 cubic
ft/min. That should be enough to peel parts off the top of the board
if you get too close. No way do you need that much air for
desoldering. You're not trying to blow hot solder balls all over the
board.

I haven't found anything that
can give me more volume against the back pressure. I even tried a 14"
blower designed for blow-up advertising devices. No luck. Back pressure
just stalls the impeller and the flow drops to nearly nothing.

What size nozzle are you using? That's not normal. Looking at the
various Leister models, it appears that they were not intended for use
with a small diameter nozzle.

Labor 7 S
http://www.leister.com/en/plastic-welding-product.html
I don't have the tiny nozzle, opening is about half an inch across.
I built a 1/4" nozzle and experimented on the tivo board, but decided
it was worse than the full opening.

Rated 50-150 l/min at 500mbar static pressure.
I set the regulator at around 10psi, no idea how accurate the gauge is.
After about a minute, the tank pressure equalizes somewhere below 10psi
and that's all the flow I get.

It's designed for plastic welding with a small tip.

That 10 foot hose really does restrict air flow when you use the whole
half-inch
opening..

Can't really justify a bigger air compressor and a new circuit to run it
for this.

Does it make sense to put fans in series to get better flow under
pressure? I gots lotsa fans.

Dunno. Offhand, I don't think so.
When I dug up the spec, I found lotsa graphs of volume vs back pressure

for fans.
So, I've looked at this in detail back in 2005 and gave up.
>

 

[Meat Plow]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 22:45:37 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 21:55:43 -0700, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:

I practiced on a TiVo board. Had to get the air temp over 350C to get
enough heat to desolder a BGA.

Argh. Too hot. It should about 220C for leaded and about 230C for lead
free BGA.
http://www.rayprasad.com/home/rp1/page_71/smt_-_lead-
free_reflow_profile_development__part_2.html
This article also covers some other issues (mixing solder types).

I then took a shot at the laptop.
The intermediate board curled up on the corner when I heated it. I
feared I'd lost connection on that corner. Probably shoulda dropped the
temp cause of the thinner intermediate board.

Again, too hot and possibly not moving the hot air gun fast enough. At
that temperature, if you stay at one position for too long, you'll burn
the board. I've reflowed similar sandwiches on JetDirect boards, and
didn't have the edges curled.

When I tried to run it, I got no video. My heart sank... I didn't think
I needed to plug in the boards for wifi, firewire and modem, but I took
a shot and reassembled the whole thing. IT WORKS.

Hold on. Have you tried flexing the board? You may have a mechanical
contact connection, but not a soldered connection. You might also break
some other BGA connections flexing the board, so you decide if it's
worthwhile.

Got any suggestions for a blower for a hot air gun. This Leister is a
600W element and temperature regulator at the end of a 10-foot air hose.
They ran the power wire down the center of the air hose and it provides
a lot of back pressure.

The back pressure doesn't matter much. I use a little air as possible.
The only thing the air does is move the heat from the air gun heater, to
the PCB. Too much air results in premature cooling. Too little air
doesn't move enough heat or heats too slowly. If there's some back
pressure, and the reflected air remains fairly cool, don't worry about
it.

It's designed to run off shop compressed air.

Ummm... I hope it wasn't designed to run directly off a 150 psi
manifold. Got a URL for this thing? One of these?
http://www.leister.com/en/processheat-product.html?catalog=c70f3b1c-
b3d6-4c64-88be-6d7b5cdc7502
I couldn't find anything that matches your description. Perhaps if you
supplied a model number?

My 3/4HP compressor
won't supply as much flow as I like.

Assuming a piston type compressor, 3/4HP should give you about 5 cubic
ft/min. That should be enough to peel parts off the top of the board if
you get too close. No way do you need that much air for desoldering.
You're not trying to blow hot solder balls all over the board.

I haven't found anything that
can give me more volume against the back pressure. I even tried a 14"
blower designed for blow-up advertising devices. No luck. Back
pressure just stalls the impeller and the flow drops to nearly nothing.

What size nozzle are you using? That's not normal. Looking at the
various Leister models, it appears that they were not intended for use
with a small diameter nozzle.

Can't really justify a bigger air compressor and a new circuit to run it
for this.

Does it make sense to put fans in series to get better flow under
pressure? I gots lotsa fans.

Dunno. Offhand, I don't think so.

I had an NVidia 8500 that the gpu was BGA. I cooked it in the oven at
450F for 5 minutes and it fixed the problem I was having, a system freeze
hard lock. Internet suggestions were a BGA problem and the reflow or
whatever the oven did fixed it. I thought solder melted higher than 450F
though.



--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

 

[Aliem]

Meat Plow <mhywattt@yahoo.com> wrote in
<news:4ri353.n1i.19.2@news.alt.net>:

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 22:45:37 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
=20
On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 21:55:43 -0700, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:
=20
I practiced on a TiVo board. Had to get the air temp over 350C to get
enough heat to desolder a BGA.
=20
Argh. Too hot. It should about 220C for leaded and about 230C for le=
ad
free BGA.
http://www.rayprasad.com/home/rp1/page_71/smt_-_lead-
free_reflow_profile_development__part_2.html
This article also covers some other issues (mixing solder types).
=20
I then took a shot at the laptop.
The intermediate board curled up on the corner when I heated it. I
feared I'd lost connection on that corner. Probably shoulda dropped t=
he
temp cause of the thinner intermediate board.
=20
Again, too hot and possibly not moving the hot air gun fast enough. At
that temperature, if you stay at one position for too long, you'll bur=
n
the board. I've reflowed similar sandwiches on JetDirect boards, and
didn't have the edges curled.
=20
When I tried to run it, I got no video. My heart sank... I didn't thi=
nk
I needed to plug in the boards for wifi, firewire and modem, but I too=
k=20
a shot and reassembled the whole thing. IT WORKS.
=20
Hold on. Have you tried flexing the board? You may have a mechanical
contact connection, but not a soldered connection. You might also bre=
ak
some other BGA connections flexing the board, so you decide if it's
worthwhile.
=20
Got any suggestions for a blower for a hot air gun. This Leister is a
600W element and temperature regulator at the end of a 10-foot air hos=
e.
They ran the power wire down the center of the air hose and it provid=
es
a lot of back pressure.
=20
The back pressure doesn't matter much. I use a little air as possible=
=20
The only thing the air does is move the heat from the air gun heater, =
to
the PCB. Too much air results in premature cooling. Too little air
doesn't move enough heat or heats too slowly. If there's some back
pressure, and the reflected air remains fairly cool, don't worry about
it.
=20
It's designed to run off shop compressed air.
=20
Ummm... I hope it wasn't designed to run directly off a 150 psi
manifold. Got a URL for this thing? One of these?
http://www.leister.com/en/processheat-product.html?catalog=3Dc70f3b1c=
-
b3d6-4c64-88be-6d7b5cdc7502
I couldn't find anything that matches your description. Perhaps if yo=
u
supplied a model number?
=20
My 3/4HP compressor
won't supply as much flow as I like.
=20
Assuming a piston type compressor, 3/4HP should give you about 5 cubic
ft/min. That should be enough to peel parts off the top of the board =
if
you get too close. No way do you need that much air for desoldering.=20
You're not trying to blow hot solder balls all over the board.
=20
I haven't found anything that
can give me more volume against the back pressure. I even tried a 14"
blower designed for blow-up advertising devices. No luck. Back
pressure just stalls the impeller and the flow drops to nearly nothing=

 

[Aliem]

Meat Plow <mhywattt@yahoo.com> wrote in
<news:4ri353.n1i.19.2@news.alt.net>:

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 22:45:37 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 21:55:43 -0700, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:

I practiced on a TiVo board. Had to get the air temp over 350C to get
enough heat to desolder a BGA.

Argh. Too hot. It should about 220C for leaded and about 230C for lead
free BGA.
http://www.rayprasad.com/home/rp1/page_71/smt_-_lead-
free_reflow_profile_development__part_2.html
This article also covers some other issues (mixing solder types).

I then took a shot at the laptop.
The intermediate board curled up on the corner when I heated it. I
feared I'd lost connection on that corner. Probably shoulda dropped the
temp cause of the thinner intermediate board.

Again, too hot and possibly not moving the hot air gun fast enough. At
that temperature, if you stay at one position for too long, you'll burn
the board. I've reflowed similar sandwiches on JetDirect boards, and
didn't have the edges curled.

When I tried to run it, I got no video. My heart sank... I didn't think
I needed to plug in the boards for wifi, firewire and modem, but I took
a shot and reassembled the whole thing. IT WORKS.

Hold on. Have you tried flexing the board? You may have a mechanical
contact connection, but not a soldered connection. You might also break
some other BGA connections flexing the board, so you decide if it's
worthwhile.

Got any suggestions for a blower for a hot air gun. This Leister is a
600W element and temperature regulator at the end of a 10-foot air hose.
They ran the power wire down the center of the air hose and it provides
a lot of back pressure.

The back pressure doesn't matter much. I use a little air as possible.
The only thing the air does is move the heat from the air gun heater, to
the PCB. Too much air results in premature cooling. Too little air
doesn't move enough heat or heats too slowly. If there's some back
pressure, and the reflected air remains fairly cool, don't worry about
it.

It's designed to run off shop compressed air.

Ummm... I hope it wasn't designed to run directly off a 150 psi
manifold. Got a URL for this thing? One of these?
http://www.leister.com/en/processheat-product.html?catalog=c70f3b1c-
b3d6-4c64-88be-6d7b5cdc7502
I couldn't find anything that matches your description. Perhaps if you
supplied a model number?

My 3/4HP compressor
won't supply as much flow as I like.

Assuming a piston type compressor, 3/4HP should give you about 5 cubic
ft/min. That should be enough to peel parts off the top of the board if
you get too close. No way do you need that much air for desoldering.
You're not trying to blow hot solder balls all over the board.

I haven't found anything that
can give me more volume against the back pressure. I even tried a 14"
blower designed for blow-up advertising devices. No luck. Back
pressure just stalls the impeller and the flow drops to nearly nothing.

What size nozzle are you using? That's not normal. Looking at the
various Leister models, it appears that they were not intended for use
with a small diameter nozzle.

Can't really justify a bigger air compressor and a new circuit to run it
for this.

Does it make sense to put fans in series to get better flow under
pressure? I gots lotsa fans.

Dunno. Offhand, I don't think so.

I had an NVidia 8500 that the gpu was BGA. I cooked it in the oven at
450F for 5 minutes and it fixed the problem I was having, a system freeze
hard lock. Internet suggestions were a BGA problem and the reflow or
whatever the oven did fixed it. I thought solder melted higher than 450F
though.

Most commonly used solders melt in the temperature range of 360 to 370
F. But depending upon the type of solder used, it may be a eutectic or
non-eutectic solder (single melting point or multiple melting point
alloy), so it may not even have any single melting point. Instead, as
the different components of the non-eutectic solder alloy reach their
melting point, the solder will form a slurry of the liquid
lower-melting-point metal, with solid bits of the higher-melting-point
metal in it.

If the card was produced prior to ~2006, NVidia most likely used what
most other electronics manufacturers used, the 63/37 Sn/Pb solder,
with a melting point of about 362 F.

If it was produced after ~2006, it most likely used Sn-Ag-Cu
(Tin-Silver-Copper) solder, with a melting point of ~428 F.

Here's a soldering tip if yer soldering to gold connectors... Sn (tin)
at soldering temperatures dissolves gold. So if yer solder joints
don't look shiny, and instead have a dull look, it might mean you had
the heat on too long, causing some of the gold to dissolve into the
tin.

We'll just chalk all this up as yet one more thing you have no clue
about, hey.

--
Live Fat Die Broke, Leave A Pustulent Corpse

Fixed yer .sig to reflect yer reality.

Yer welcome.


--

___ ___ ___ ___
/ /\ / /\ ___ / /\ / /\
/ /::\ / /:/ /__/\ / /::\ / /::|
/ /:/\:\ / /:/ \__\:\ / /:/\:\ / /:|:|
/ /::\ \:\ / /:/ / /::\ / /::\ \:\ / /:/|:|__
/__/:/\:\_\:\ /__/:/ __/ /:/\/ /__/:/\:\ \:\ /__/:/ |:| /\
\__\/ \:\/:/ \ \:\ /__/\/:/ \ \:\ \:\_\/ \__\/ |:|/:/
\__\::/ \ \:\ \ \::/ \ \:\ \:\ | |:/:/
/ /:/ \ \:\ \ \:\ \ \:\_\/ |__|::/
/__/:/ \ \:\ \__\/ \ \:\ /__/:/
\__\/ \__\/ \__\/ \__\/


WHO IS 'MEAT PLOW' from Alt.Usenet.Kooks (AUK)?

The obese, abusive, ugly, snaggle-toothed, giant-headed, gay 'bear'
biker retard who likes to surf gay porn sites as 'BlancoBear' while
wearing only assless chaps:

William Malone Griffith, Jr.
(aka Milt, Meat Plow, BlancoBear, Meat@petitmorte.net, Tripp)
308 10th Street NE
North Canton, OH 44720-2023

Some of this sick fuck's best work, and comments from others about
him:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.buzzard.rules/msg/f630759d6303a19d
Message-ID: <SFexc.17128428$Of.2846155@news.easynews.com>

Willy claims to be a member of SPUTUM (Subgenius Police, Usenet
Tactical Unit, Mobile), but subgenius doesn't even BEGIN to describe
Willy...
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.net-people/msg/b42fac45ef5210f9
Is yer CapsLock on, Willy?

Evidence that Meat Plow is William Malone Griffith, II:
--------------------
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usenet.kooks/msg/5650f8e1e7dedefa
Message-ID: <fc5167ee7ad8e6f64bbe528026c00d98@rip.ax.lt>

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/msg/e52ffbb346f5b764
Message-ID: <ac995ab01f76a177f4012486eb671c0e@rip.ax.lt>

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usenet.kooks/msg/a94a2a11df601e39
Message-ID: <f6ccd46e74bff6e99d49781388db38c7@rip.ax.lt>

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/msg/ef80aad2e7db945d
Message-ID: <2abe74de52d65b6046cc0bdd3c108d86@rip.ax.lt>
--------------------

Meat Plow personal info:
--------------------
Birthdate: Oct 3, 1955

Amateur Radio callsign N8NCX
Technician Plus
(2 meter, 6 meter)
--------------------


--------------------
Photo of MeatPlow in Belden Village Music store (his sister's music
store):
(Note the guitars in the background, the planet-sized head,
the rotten-Chiclet teeth, and general look of retardation)
http://www.productwiki.com/william-malone-griffith-ii/lists/
http://images.productwiki.com/upload/images/william_malone_griffith_ii_avatar_1_0-150-150.jpg

Photo of William Malone Griffith, Jr. from uffnet.com:
(Note that it's the same person as in the photo above)
http://www.uffnet.com/library/headlines/images/news1376621745xlb.jpg

He's got his father's nose and eyes:
http://www.legacy.com/guestbook/kentucky/guestbook.aspx?pid=2527782
http://mi-cache.legacy.com/usercontent/guestbook/photos/2005-09/6966764.jpg
--------------------

Meat Plow email addresses:
--------------------
http://web.archive.org/web/20010305113423/http://www.k1hk.org/ugb_archive3.html
"Bill N8NCX wgriffit@neo.rr.com"

wgriffit at neo.rr.com (neo = North East Ohio)
mhywattt at yahoo.com
mhywatt at yahoo.com
--------------------

Meat Plow admits to being from Ohio:
--------------------
Message-ID: <pan.2011.05.17.23.07.01@emutt.macspoofer.lmao>
Message-ID: <pan.2011.05.17.23.09.38@emutt.macspoofer.lmao>
--------------------

Meat Plow's brushes with the law:
--------------------
1}
http://www.starkcountycjis.org/crim/crim_display_docket_main?pass_case_no=11543&pass_case_type=VBD&pass_case_year=2002&pass_first_name=William&pass_last_name=Griffith

2}
http://www.starkcountycjis.org/civil/civil_display_docket_main?case_year_no=2009-3533&litigant_txt=Griffith
--------------------

Meat Plow quotes:
--------------------
Message-ID: <pan.2011.05.18.22.21.28@emutt.macspoofer.lmao>
"I have no shame here in Usenet."

Message-ID: <pan.2011.05.20.01.22.52@emutt.macspoofer.lmao>
"I'd bet $200.00 of that Keiser money you still have that you will
leave before me."

Meat Plow describes his high-powered legal team:
Message-ID: <pan.2011.05.25.00.08.32@emutt.macspoofer.lmao>
"You know i have a legal team who specializes in internet law. And I
won't hesitate to get them in on the action."

Message-ID: <pan.2011.05.25.00.16.43@emutt.macspoofer.lmao>
"I haven't changed nor do I plan on it any time in the near future.
And yes I am bullet-proof as I have proved it."

Meat Plow visits a massage parlor for a Happy Ending massage.
But they refused to give him a Happy Ending his second time there.
That explains why he's gay, he can't even PAY for HAND JOBS from
women.
-----
http://www.clreviews.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11679
"One time I got a HE, and the 2nd time I didn't. I was asked if I was
there both times and said I was. That's is why I didn't know if I said
something wrong the 2nd time which made me not get a HE."

Well, at least we know what he does with his weekends.
-----

Meat Plow losing his connection to reality, insinuating that he's law
enforcement:
Message-ID: <pan.2011.07.02.00.58.38@emutt.macspoofer.lmao>
"I could be LE posing as Meat Plow. It can't be dis-proven."

--------------------


Oh, William, what would yer family say if they learned yer secrets?

Mother:
...----------------------------.
Catherine & Angelo Griffith

4760 Echovalley St. NW
North Canton, OH 44720-7504
330-494-5785
'----------------------------'


Sister:
...----------------------------------------.
Pamela L. & Roger R. Werling
{ son Todd E. Werling (Ft. Wayne, IN) }
{ son Chris (Kennesaw, GA) }
{ son Keith (Ft. Wayne, IN) }
{ grandson Easton }
{ grandson Zakary }
{ granddaughter Camella }

7704 Bisque Court
Fort Wayne, IN 46825-3501
260-489-6086
'----------------------------------------'


Sister:
...----------------------------------------------.
Cheryl J. & Jason 'Sparky' Humberto E. Rivera
{ daughter Christina }
{ daughter Rosalio (North Canton, OH) }
{ daughter Maria (North Canton, OH) }
{ son Len Gray (Ft. Worth, TX) }

5225 Echo Valley St. NW
North Canton, OH 44720-9702
----------------------------------------------
Belden Village Music
6787 Wales Ave NW
North Canton, OH 44720
beldenvillagemusic.com
330-497-9292
----------------------------------------------
Rosalio B & Maria I Rivera
444 Wales Rd. NE
Massillon, OH 44646-5875
330-833-4291
----------------------------------------------
PO Box 35093
Canton, OH 44735
'----------------------------------------------'


Sister:
...---------------------------------------.
Carol L. & Ric A. Campbell
{ son Richard }
{ son Christopher (North Canton, OH) }
{ son Brandon († 30 May 1996) }
{ daughter Erin }

6794 William Tell Ave NW
North Canton, OH 44720-6546
330-497-7980
330-499-5107
---------------------------------------
PO Box 36473
Canton, OH 44735
'---------------------------------------'


Sister:
...----------------------------------.
Christine H. & Shelton M. Vick
{ son Matthew }

3915 Harvard Ave NW
Canton, OH 44709-1538
330-493-5645
----------------------------------
Re/Max Edge Realty
North Canton / Massillon / Canton
Realtor Christine H. Vick

6929 Portage St. NW
North Canton, OH 44720-6535
330-236-5100
888-830-6509 (fax)
330-904-0883 (cell)
www.MyOhioHomeFinder.com
MyOhioHomeFinder@gmail.com
'----------------------------------'


Sister:
...----------------------------.
Angela C. & Mark Warshefski

11 SE 12th St.
Pompano Beach, FL 33060
954-785-4716
----------------------------
4760 Echovalley St. NW
North Canton, OH 44720-7504
330-942-0584
'----------------------------'


Cousin:
...-------------------------.
Eddy Dailey

Bergholz Super Mart
861 Washington St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
740-768-1018
-------------------------
Bergholz Financial Corp.
dba SuperMart
PO Box 545
524 Garfield St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
'-------------------------'


Cousin:
...--------------------.
Donna L. Dailey

524 5th St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
740-768-2416
--------------------
Bergholz Super Mart
861 Washington St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
740-768-1018
--------------------
Bergholz, OH EMT
'--------------------'


Cousin:
...-------------------.
Bill & Joyce Leas
{ son Billy }

243 2nd St.
Bergholz, OH 43908
'-------------------'


Niece:
...---------------------------.
Rachel & Adam T. Livengood
{ son Lukas }
{ daughter Lauren }

6342 Palmer Dr. NW
Canton, OH 44718
330-497-7754
'---------------------------'


Izzatchoo, or yer dead daddy?
...--------------------------------.
William M. Griffith

between 3rd and 4th St.
between Monroe and Lincoln Ave.
Bergholz, OH 43908
740-768-2539
'--------------------------------'


What would yer landlord for 308 10th St. NE,
North Canton, OH say if they learned yer secrets?
...----------------------------.
David S. and Joan R. Shaner

2095 Waterbury Dr.
Uniontown OH 44312
330-699-4042
'----------------------------'


What would the employees at yer family's
business say if they learned yer secrets?
...-----------------------------------------.
Ohio Kentucky Oil Corporation
aka Ohio Oil & Gas Exploration (defunct)
aka Ohio Kentucky Coal Company (defunct)

5112 Portage St. NW
Canton, OH 44720-6856
(330) 494-8810
(330) 497-7980
-----------------------------------------
110 E. Lowry Lane
Lexington, KY 40503
(800) BUY 4 OIL
(800) 289-4645
(859) 223-5656
(859) 223-5946
(859) 276-0699 (fax)
(859) 276-3500
(859) 276-4080
-----------------------------------------
http://www.ohiokentuckyoil.com
oilstrike@insightbb.com
admin@ohiokentuckyoil.net
'-----------------------------------------'


----------
Oh, but wait, Ohio Oil & Gas Exploration is no longer incorporated in
Ohio:
Daddy Griffith's petrol exploration company (defunct):
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:3376481605987832::NO:77_CHARTER_NUM:384125

Nor are any of the other businesses yer daddy started. You let them
all fail:
Daddy Griffith's stables (defunct):
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:3376481605987832::NO:77_CHARTER_NUM:377966

Daddy Griffith's motel business (defunct):
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:3376481605987832::NO:77_CHARTER_NUM:377965

Daddy Griffith's drilling company (defunct):
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:3376481605987832::NO:77_CHARTER_NUM:347837

Daddy Griffith's metals business (defunct):
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:3376481605987832::NO:77_CHARTER_NUM:552193

And Ohio Kentucky Oil Corporation is on its last legs, inundated with
securities fraud lawsuits and EPA lawsuits. It's barred from
soliciting investors in Tennessee due to securities fraud, it's under
investigation in Ohio and Kentucky, it owns no oil assets or wells,
and it no longer does any of its own drilling. It'll be gone soon,
too.

And you've squandered everything Daddy Griffith earned from his
businesses, so yer now poor, adding insult to injury.
----------


You being poor is why you issued the following. You knew you didn't
have ten thousand dollars or so to defend yerself against yet another
lawsuit:

William Malone Griffith, II's grovelfest of an apology for being a
fucktard stauker:
==================================================
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usenet.kooks/browse_thread/thread/8d753c94bd612f4e
http://www.freak-search.com/en/thread/3859383/meat_plow_exposed
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usenet.kooks/msg/c9fccf0d1ab26ace
Message-ID: <3n4c2e.bi4.17.1@news.alt.net>

Title: Apology to Charles Novins

The witnesses to this abject, groveling apology:

Angela Griffith = Angela C. Griffith-Warshefski, William Malone
Griffith, Jr.'s sister

Catherine Griffith = William Malone Griffith, Jr.'s mother

Julia M. Griffith = ?

Cheri Griffith = Cheryl J. Griffith-Rivera, William Malone Griffith,
Jr.'s sister

Justin Griffith = ?

Kristy Griffith = Christine H. Griffith-Vick, William Malone Griffith,
Jr.'s sister

-----

Questions yet to be answered:
Who are Julia M. Griffith and Justin Griffith?

Angela C. Griffith-Warshefski came all the way from Pompano Beach,
Florida to witness and sign MeatPlow's apology letter?

Or did William Malone Griffith, Jr. forge the witness signatures,
which would indicate some level of insincerity in the apology?

If William Malone Griffith, Jr. did indeed forge the witness
signatures, is his family cognizant of him using them in this way?

Who is Deborah Ann Griffith?

-----
Who is Sherri Renee Christie, William D. Christie (age 54) and Lillie
L. Christie, and how are they associated with William Malone Griffith,
II?

1345 Bison St. NW
Massillon, OH 44647
330-833-5313 (Sherri)
330-837-4967 (William)

2524 Meadows Ave NW
Apt. 4
Massillon, OH 44647

PO Box 36221
Canton, OH 44735
-----

==================================================

It's time for a digital enema to flush this turd named William Malone
Griffith, II out of the system.

The exit is -.
|
'-----.
.---. .-----. |
| | '---. | |
'-. `-----|-' |
| '---'
'------------->
thataway

 

[josephkk]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 21:55:43 -0700, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 09:21:16 -0700, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote:

I bought a Thinkpad X31.

I have one on the bench as I write. Nice machine with a few design
defects. The plastic case is really flimsy and easy to crack along
the sides. I have yet to see an X30, X31, or X32 that does NOT have a
crack in the case somewhere. Plastic epoxy will fix it if you don't
care what the result looks like. Mine resembles Frankenstein:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Thinkpad-X31.jpg
X30 on the left, X31 on the right.

Fails video memory test and the image looks like
it's in 8-bit color mode.
Pushing hard on the motherboard fixes the image.
Lots of googling uncovers many people who've reflowed
the nVidea BGA chip by means varying from oven to hot
air to a blowtorch.

The X31 uses an ATI Radeo Mobile 7000 video chip.
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X31

Before you blame the video chip, carefully inspect the video ribbon
cable. I've had failures with that cable that looked much like a
video chip problem. They're available on eBay for about $7.

The bad news about this one is that the video BGA
and a RAM BGA are sitting on a carrier that's looks
like it's made out of circuit board material and is also
BGA'd to the mother board.

Yep, that's the problem. Hit it with too much heat and it will melt
or burn (I forgot which). I monitor the heat with an IR thermometer.
Not hugely accurate because it's mostly measuring the temperature of
the hot air gun tip, but good enough. It really doesn't take much
heat or time to reflow the solder with the "skirt" of PCB material
around the BGA. Work fast. This should give you an idea of what to
expect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJlgPbELL0E
(Drivel: Not the giant blob of Arctic Silver on top of the CPU to the
right. That's about 100 times too much. Oh well).

Incidentally, I just hot air reflowed and fixed 4 out of 6 HP
JetDirect J4169A cards, which have the same style BGA chip.

I'm not optimistic about getting the heat thru the chips
and the carrier to the motherboard without burning up something.

Rosin flux really helps. It largely prevents oxidation (cold solder
joint). It conducts the heat to odd places. It explodes if you get
it too hot.

In my limited experience, a real hot air desoldering station is a
must. You don't really need all the BGA nozzles as a small 3mm nozzle
is usually sufficient. I bought mine on eBay for about $80 with 4
nozzles. I suggest you practice on an old PCB before trying the real
thing. Getting the temperature right and how fast you move the
nozzle, require some practice.

The thing works well enough to surf the web or control stuff.
I'd hate to brick it. Certainly not worth a replacement motherboard
that has or will soon have the same problem.

It's worth saving.

Anybody got experience reflowing this dual-stack kind of thing?

Yep. My success rate was about 2 out of 5 motherboards with that
configuration. Can't win them all. You have a better chance than
most because you can sorta tell where to reflow.

A few hints:
1. Don't push down on the "skirt" while hot. That will cause the
solder balls to migrate across adjacent pads.
2. Use flux even if it makes a mess. I messy working computer is
better than a clean brick.
3. Build a heat shield out of aluminum foil. The hot air will melt
adjacent plastic quite easily.
4. Give it time to cool down.

Good luck.

Thanks for the inputs.
Flux arrived.
I practiced on a TiVo board. Had to get the air temp over 350C to get
enough heat to desolder a BGA.
I then took a shot at the laptop.
The intermediate board curled up on the corner when I heated it. I
feared I'd lost connection on that corner. Probably shoulda dropped the
temp cause of the thinner intermediate board.

When I tried to run it, I got no video. My heart sank...
I didn't think I needed to plug in the boards for wifi, firewire
and modem, but I took a shot and reassembled the whole thing.
IT WORKS.

Cool.

Got any suggestions for a blower for a hot air gun.
This Leister is a 600W element and temperature regulator
at the end of a 10-foot air hose. They ran the power wire
down the center of the air hose and it provides a lot of back pressure.
It's designed to run off shop compressed air. My 3/4HP compressor
won't supply as much flow as I like. I haven't found anything that
can give me more volume against the back pressure. I even tried a 14"
blower designed for blow-up advertising devices. No luck. Back pressure
just stalls the impeller and the flow drops to nearly nothing.
Can't really justify a bigger air compressor and a new circuit to run it
for this.

Recently there was a thing about high volume low pressure air for paint
guns. I bet you could find something surplus or yard sale for cheap.

Does it make sense to put fans in series to get better flow under
pressure? I gots lotsa fans.

Ideas?
Thanks,mike