recommended cad computer

J

Jacob

Guest
Hello all,

I'am working with Ultiboard 2001 and want to upgrade my computer.
My question are: What type of processor are recommended?
P4 / P4EE / Xeon / Athlon64-FX or others?

PS I'am working with verry big designs

Thanks in advance,
Jacob
 
In article <2360pb.293.ln@ARV-001.ARVOO>, NONAME@NOSPAM.NL says...

Hello all,

I'am working with Ultiboard 2001 and want to upgrade my computer.
My question are: What type of processor are recommended?
P4 / P4EE / Xeon / Athlon64-FX or others?

PS I'am working with verry big designs
Click to expand...
You may want to consider a multiprocessor platform, especially if
you're doing other things with the system besides EDA/CAD.

I faced a similar decision not long ago. My five-year old system
was getting a bit long in the tooth when it came to apps like Protel
DXP, PageMaker, etc. I will freely admit to being exceedingly picky
where it comes to my hardware, so my choice was to keep my nice
rackmount case, and rebuild the guts as follows:

--PC Power & Cooling 'TurboCool 500' power supply.

--Tyan Tiger MPX dual Athlon MB.

--Twin Athlon 2200MP CPUs (retail pack, which included AMD-
specified fan/heatsink combos).

--1GB ECC PC2100 DDR RAM.

--No IDE/ATA! All-SCSI system using the Tekram DC390U2W and an 18
gig Seagate Cheetah LVD/Wide drive. There's a second adapter in place
(just a cheap Adaptec 2940 series) to handle the CD-ROM and external
drives. This was done for the sake of expandability. The motherboard
will also handle USB devices if I ever need them.

--Windows 2000 Pro, SP3 (you couldn't pay me to use X(tra) P(ain)
Heck, I'd use a Unix variant if much of my software didn't depend on the
Windows platform).

The results were amazing. Just as an example, where heavy
processing is concerned, my old system (an AMD K6-2/550 single CPU) used
to take about 30 hours to rip through a SETI-at-Home work unit. The new
system does one in about four.

As for CAD work, I don't think I've ever seen Protel route a
circuit board so quick. The 3-D board preview looks every bit as good as
the engineering workstations I used to support at Boeing (IBM RS/6000's
running AIX and CATIA), and I don't expect anything different when I
give OrCAD a try later this month.

One warning about the Athlon MP's: They run hot! Make sure, if you
choose a similar platform, that your case has plenty of airflow, and
that you follow AMD's recommendations TO THE LETTER in terms of
recommended motherboard, power supply, and memory. I used Corsair RAM
that I got from Fry's. It has a lifetime warranty, and is on Tyan's
'recommended' list.

Building up a new system is always fun (if a bit hard on the
checkbook). Happy hunting. ;-)


--
Dr. Anton Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR)
kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t c&o&m
Motorola Radio Programming & Service Available -
http://www.bluefeathertech.com/rf.html
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
 
I'am tried Ultiboard on a duall prosessor board, but he don't use the second
prosessor!
So I think I must invest in other things.

Thanks,
JAcob

"Dr. Anton Squeegee" <SpammersAreVermin@dev.null> schreef in bericht
news:MPG.1a1d4466dfd50cbe989af5@192.168.42.131...
In article <2360pb.293.ln@ARV-001.ARVOO>, NONAME@NOSPAM.NL says...

Hello all,

I'am working with Ultiboard 2001 and want to upgrade my computer.
My question are: What type of processor are recommended?
P4 / P4EE / Xeon / Athlon64-FX or others?

PS I'am working with verry big designs

You may want to consider a multiprocessor platform, especially if
you're doing other things with the system besides EDA/CAD.

I faced a similar decision not long ago. My five-year old system
was getting a bit long in the tooth when it came to apps like Protel
DXP, PageMaker, etc. I will freely admit to being exceedingly picky
where it comes to my hardware, so my choice was to keep my nice
rackmount case, and rebuild the guts as follows:

--PC Power & Cooling 'TurboCool 500' power supply.

--Tyan Tiger MPX dual Athlon MB.

--Twin Athlon 2200MP CPUs (retail pack, which included AMD-
specified fan/heatsink combos).

--1GB ECC PC2100 DDR RAM.

--No IDE/ATA! All-SCSI system using the Tekram DC390U2W and an 18
gig Seagate Cheetah LVD/Wide drive. There's a second adapter in place
(just a cheap Adaptec 2940 series) to handle the CD-ROM and external
drives. This was done for the sake of expandability. The motherboard
will also handle USB devices if I ever need them.

--Windows 2000 Pro, SP3 (you couldn't pay me to use X(tra) P(ain)
Heck, I'd use a Unix variant if much of my software didn't depend on the
Windows platform).

The results were amazing. Just as an example, where heavy
processing is concerned, my old system (an AMD K6-2/550 single CPU) used
to take about 30 hours to rip through a SETI-at-Home work unit. The new
system does one in about four.

As for CAD work, I don't think I've ever seen Protel route a
circuit board so quick. The 3-D board preview looks every bit as good as
the engineering workstations I used to support at Boeing (IBM RS/6000's
running AIX and CATIA), and I don't expect anything different when I
give OrCAD a try later this month.

One warning about the Athlon MP's: They run hot! Make sure, if you
choose a similar platform, that your case has plenty of airflow, and
that you follow AMD's recommendations TO THE LETTER in terms of
recommended motherboard, power supply, and memory. I used Corsair RAM
that I got from Fry's. It has a lifetime warranty, and is on Tyan's
'recommended' list.

Building up a new system is always fun (if a bit hard on the
checkbook). Happy hunting. ;-)


--
Dr. Anton Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR)
kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t c&o&m
Motorola Radio Programming & Service Available -
http://www.bluefeathertech.com/rf.html
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
Click to expand...
 
ahh.. but you missed the point.. Protel doesn't use the second processor
either.. that means.. its free for something else to use it :)

I've been using Protel for donkeys years.. and this is suitable for DXP..
don't know about Ultiboard
my system is also brand new.. P4 2.6G .. 512 DDR dual Corsair with an
average 3D card.. G-force .. not ATI (ever!)
you might want to consider a nice 17" LCD (or 19").. my monitor at work is a
19" IBM Trinitron ... monitor, memory, mouse. The more memory the better.
You don't need a fast hard drive just big, but an optical mouse and sharp
screen are a must.

Simon


"Jacob" <NONAME@NOSPAM.NL> wrote in message
news:iv02pb.t5m.ln@ARV-001.ARVOO...
I'am tried Ultiboard on a duall prosessor board, but he don't use the
second
prosessor!
So I think I must invest in other things.

Thanks,
JAcob

"Dr. Anton Squeegee" <SpammersAreVermin@dev.null> schreef in bericht
news:MPG.1a1d4466dfd50cbe989af5@192.168.42.131...
In article <2360pb.293.ln@ARV-001.ARVOO>, NONAME@NOSPAM.NL says...

Hello all,

I'am working with Ultiboard 2001 and want to upgrade my computer.
My question are: What type of processor are recommended?
P4 / P4EE / Xeon / Athlon64-FX or others?

PS I'am working with verry big designs

You may want to consider a multiprocessor platform, especially if
you're doing other things with the system besides EDA/CAD.

I faced a similar decision not long ago. My five-year old system
was getting a bit long in the tooth when it came to apps like Protel
DXP, PageMaker, etc. I will freely admit to being exceedingly picky
where it comes to my hardware, so my choice was to keep my nice
rackmount case, and rebuild the guts as follows:

--PC Power & Cooling 'TurboCool 500' power supply.

--Tyan Tiger MPX dual Athlon MB.

--Twin Athlon 2200MP CPUs (retail pack, which included AMD-
specified fan/heatsink combos).

--1GB ECC PC2100 DDR RAM.

--No IDE/ATA! All-SCSI system using the Tekram DC390U2W and an 18
gig Seagate Cheetah LVD/Wide drive. There's a second adapter in place
(just a cheap Adaptec 2940 series) to handle the CD-ROM and external
drives. This was done for the sake of expandability. The motherboard
will also handle USB devices if I ever need them.

--Windows 2000 Pro, SP3 (you couldn't pay me to use X(tra) P(ain)
Heck, I'd use a Unix variant if much of my software didn't depend on the
Windows platform).

The results were amazing. Just as an example, where heavy
processing is concerned, my old system (an AMD K6-2/550 single CPU) used
to take about 30 hours to rip through a SETI-at-Home work unit. The new
system does one in about four.

As for CAD work, I don't think I've ever seen Protel route a
circuit board so quick. The 3-D board preview looks every bit as good as
the engineering workstations I used to support at Boeing (IBM RS/6000's
running AIX and CATIA), and I don't expect anything different when I
give OrCAD a try later this month.

One warning about the Athlon MP's: They run hot! Make sure, if you
choose a similar platform, that your case has plenty of airflow, and
that you follow AMD's recommendations TO THE LETTER in terms of
recommended motherboard, power supply, and memory. I used Corsair RAM
that I got from Fry's. It has a lifetime warranty, and is on Tyan's
'recommended' list.

Building up a new system is always fun (if a bit hard on the
checkbook). Happy hunting. ;-)


--
Dr. Anton Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, KC7GR)
kyrrin a/t bluefeathertech d-o=t c&o&m
Motorola Radio Programming & Service Available -
http://www.bluefeathertech.com/rf.html
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
Click to expand...
 
"Jacob" <NONAME@NOSPAM.NL> wrote in message news:<2360pb.293.ln@ARV-001.ARVOO>...
Hello all,

I'am working with Ultiboard 2001 and want to upgrade my computer.
My question are: What type of processor are recommended?
P4 / P4EE / Xeon / Athlon64-FX or others?

PS I'am working with verry big designs
Click to expand...
At the moment Intel has the advantage over AMD of a faster memory bus
- my local computer shop is offering Pentium-based systems with an
800MHz memory bus, while the Athalon-based systems don't seem to go
above 333MHz.

My guess would be that this could be important if you were working on
big designs. As much DRAM is you could afford would probably also be a
good idea.

I'm planning on sitting on my hands until AMD catches up. I don't make
any money out of my computer, and paying for bleeding edge technology
is correspondingly hard to justify.

-----
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
 
"Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:7c584d27.0311140504.530e8e52@posting.google.com...
"Jacob" <NONAME@NOSPAM.NL> wrote in message
news:<2360pb.293.ln@ARV-001.ARVOO>...
Hello all,

I'am working with Ultiboard 2001 and want to upgrade my computer.
My question are: What type of processor are recommended?
P4 / P4EE / Xeon / Athlon64-FX or others?

PS I'am working with verry big designs

At the moment Intel has the advantage over AMD of a faster memory bus
- my local computer shop is offering Pentium-based systems with an
800MHz memory bus, while the Athalon-based systems don't seem to go
above 333MHz.
Click to expand...
There is something about the RAMBUS memory that does not allow it to reach
full theoretical speed (IIRC the realized bandwidth was like 1/3 of the 800
MHz limit during typical use!)

My guess would be that this could be important if you were working on
big designs. As much DRAM is you could afford would probably also be a
good idea.

I'm planning on sitting on my hands until AMD catches up. I don't make
any money out of my computer, and paying for bleeding edge technology
is correspondingly hard to justify.
Click to expand...
I usually buy cutting edge stuff that's been around for 6 months. For
example CPU's are worth much less at that point, and are only about 5 to 10%
slower. The money you save could be used to buy a much faster part a year
down the road.

Another good rule to follow is don't bother upgrading until the computer is
slowing you down from doing what you need it to do. My P III 500 laptop I'm
writing this on is perfectly fine for my needs at the moment, and if it was
not such a physical piece of crap, I wouldn't bother replacing it for
another year or two. My 2.2 GHz computer barely gets used.


-----
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Click to expand...
 
RAMBUS seems to be centered around an 16(18) bit word length.
So each access only gives you 16 bits of data. That means
that a RAMBUS board that is rated 800MHz, is capable of
800 million 16 bit words per second. Since even the lowliest
pentium needs 32 bits at a chunk, that means two accesses per
32 bit word. The newer CPU's with their 64 bit paths need 4
accesses per word. But to compensate, there are now RAMBUS
boards with between 1 and 2GHz access rates, and CPU boards
that can read multiple RAMBUS boards at the same time.

The other memory technologies in use are more parallel in
what they read each time, so they may read 32 bits at 133MHz,
or 64 bits at 133MHz. These would work out to a 266MHz and
532MHz in RAMBUS speak.

-Chuck

Jeff wrote:
"Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:7c584d27.0311140504.530e8e52@posting.google.com...

"Jacob" <NONAME@NOSPAM.NL> wrote in message

news:<2360pb.293.ln@ARV-001.ARVOO>...

Hello all,

I'am working with Ultiboard 2001 and want to upgrade my computer.
My question are: What type of processor are recommended?
P4 / P4EE / Xeon / Athlon64-FX or others?

PS I'am working with verry big designs

At the moment Intel has the advantage over AMD of a faster memory bus
- my local computer shop is offering Pentium-based systems with an
800MHz memory bus, while the Athalon-based systems don't seem to go
above 333MHz.


There is something about the RAMBUS memory that does not allow it to reach
full theoretical speed (IIRC the realized bandwidth was like 1/3 of the 800
MHz limit during typical use!)


My guess would be that this could be important if you were working on
big designs. As much DRAM is you could afford would probably also be a
good idea.

I'm planning on sitting on my hands until AMD catches up. I don't make
any money out of my computer, and paying for bleeding edge technology
is correspondingly hard to justify.


I usually buy cutting edge stuff that's been around for 6 months. For
example CPU's are worth much less at that point, and are only about 5 to 10%
slower. The money you save could be used to buy a much faster part a year
down the road.

Another good rule to follow is don't bother upgrading until the computer is
slowing you down from doing what you need it to do. My P III 500 laptop I'm
writing this on is perfectly fine for my needs at the moment, and if it was
not such a physical piece of crap, I wouldn't bother replacing it for
another year or two. My 2.2 GHz computer barely gets used.



-----
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Click to expand...
 
In article <bp3pm4$j1d$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, cfharris@erols.com
says...
RAMBUS seems to be centered around an 16(18) bit word length.
Click to expand...
Yes/no. The data bus is 16bits wide, but the word length is not
"centered around" this length.

So each access only gives you 16 bits of data.
Click to expand...
No, each access gives a full cache line (256bits for the P6) in a
burst.

That means
that a RAMBUS board that is rated 800MHz, is capable of
800 million 16 bit words per second.
Click to expand...
Ok. That means a cache line takes 16 clocks at 800MHz.

Since even the lowliest
pentium needs 32 bits at a chunk, that means two accesses per
32 bit word.
Click to expand...
No, "even the lowliest Pentium" needs 256 bits at a chunk. You
cannot fetch anything from memory less than a cache-line in size.
If you only need one byte, 31 others are coming along for the
ride.

The newer CPU's with their 64 bit paths
Click to expand...
Umm, "even the lowliest Pentium" has a 64-bit data path.

need 4
accesses per word. But to compensate, there are now RAMBUS
boards with between 1 and 2GHz access rates, and CPU boards
that can read multiple RAMBUS boards at the same time.
Click to expand...
The only chipset that had a single RAMBUSt channel was the Intel
420, which was an unmitigated disaster (read; slow as a pig in
slop). That thing was dropped faster than a turkey on
Thanksgiving.

The other memory technologies in use are more parallel in
what they read each time, so they may read 32 bits at 133MHz,
or 64 bits at 133MHz. These would work out to a 266MHz and
532MHz in RAMBUS speak.
Click to expand...
Note that there are no 32bit wide SDRAM DIMMs. The Pentium's
data path is 64bits, so all SDRAM DIMMs are in this width.
Before SDRAM there were 32bit asynchronous DRAMs, which were
intended for the '486 and before. To use these in a Pentium
system they had[1] to be used in pairs.

The arithmetic isn't all that easy (BTW, DDR SDRAM doubles your
number). The RAMBUSt channel has independent
command/address/data so it is more pipelined. The memory chips
allow more open pages (though no one uses this feature). In
theory


[1] There were chipsets that allowed single SIMMs, but it was a
Bad Idea (TM).
 
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