recomendation on a processor core

hi,

after few years i want to restart FPGA development once again - initially for personel fun, but later may move in to commercial development too. At the moment i am trying to find a suitable processor core for the work. These are my requirements:

1. It must have a good documentation + tools + community support
2. It should be mature and future proof
3. Better if it is Free, how ever commercial cores are OK too provided that i have the full documentation + tool set for free to get started.


Few years back i played a little with openrisc. This time too i initially wanted to go with it. However documentation for openrisc seems to be extremely low and incomplete. Im not sure the status of tools and support, but seems like they are lacking as well. I'd like to get some advice from expert engineers about this before going forward. Also like to know about better alternatives as well.

thank you

 

[Frank Buss]

manusha1980@gmail.com wrote:

after few years i want to restart FPGA development once again - initially for personel fun, but later may move in to commercial development too. At the moment i am trying to find a suitable processor core for the work. These are my requirements:

1. It must have a good documentation + tools + community support
2. It should be mature and future proof
3. Better if it is Free, how ever commercial cores are OK too provided that i have the full documentation + tool set for free to get started.


Few years back i played a little with openrisc. This time too i initially wanted to go with it. However documentation for openrisc seems to be extremely low and incomplete. Im not sure the status of tools and support, but seems like they are lacking as well. I'd like to get some advice from expert engineers about this before going forward. Also like to know about better alternatives as well.

How fast do you need it? I've used NIOS, the smallest version is free.
Sometimes a bit difficult to setup a project and to use Eclipse, but
when it works, it is nice, with integrated debugger.

--
Frank Buss, http://www.frank-buss.de
electronics and more: http://www.youtube.com/user/frankbuss

 

On Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:32:18 PM UTC+5:30, Frank Buss wrote:

manusha1980@gmail.com wrote:

after few years i want to restart FPGA development once again - initially for personel fun, but later may move in to commercial development too. At the moment i am trying to find a suitable processor core for the work. These are my requirements:

1. It must have a good documentation + tools + community support
2. It should be mature and future proof
3. Better if it is Free, how ever commercial cores are OK too provided that i have the full documentation + tool set for free to get started.


Few years back i played a little with openrisc. This time too i initially wanted to go with it. However documentation for openrisc seems to be extremely low and incomplete. Im not sure the status of tools and support, but seems like they are lacking as well. I'd like to get some advice from expert engineers about this before going forward. Also like to know about better alternatives as well.

How fast do you need it? I've used NIOS, the smallest version is free.
Sometimes a bit difficult to setup a project and to use Eclipse, but
when it works, it is nice, with integrated debugger.

--
Frank Buss, http://www.frank-buss.de
electronics and more: http://www.youtube.com/user/frankbuss

On Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:32:18 PM UTC+5:30, Frank Buss wrote:

manusha1980@gmail.com wrote:

after few years i want to restart FPGA development once again - initially for personel fun, but later may move in to commercial development too. At the moment i am trying to find a suitable processor core for the work. These are my requirements:

1. It must have a good documentation + tools + community support
2. It should be mature and future proof
3. Better if it is Free, how ever commercial cores are OK too provided that i have the full documentation + tool set for free to get started.


Few years back i played a little with openrisc. This time too i initially wanted to go with it. However documentation for openrisc seems to be extremely low and incomplete. Im not sure the status of tools and support, but seems like they are lacking as well. I'd like to get some advice from expert engineers about this before going forward. Also like to know about better alternatives as well.

How fast do you need it? I've used NIOS, the smallest version is free.
Sometimes a bit difficult to setup a project and to use Eclipse, but
when it works, it is nice, with integrated debugger.

--
Frank Buss, http://www.frank-buss.de
electronics and more: http://www.youtube.com/user/frankbuss

i'd like to have something that i can use for serious stuff, for example mp3 encoding/decoding, implementing neural networks, decoding movies. I started out with leon2/leon3 and things have been good so far. but still interested in knowing alternatives.

 

[Frank Buss]

manusha1980@gmail.com wrote:

i'd like to have something that i can use for serious stuff, for example
mp3 encoding/decoding, implementing neural networks, decoding movies.
I started out with leon2/leon3 and things have been good so far. but
still interested in knowing alternatives.

If you have a low end FPGA like Cyclone, I think just a CPU imlemented
in the FPGA will be too slow for things like decoding movies, but you
could add FPGA logic for some tasks. With NIOS you can embed it as
custom instructions, but the usual way is memory mapped. Of course, the
easiest solution would be to buy a Raspberry Pi for $25 for the tasks
you've mentioned, except the neural networks, which could be faster with
FPGAs, because of the high parallel processing capabilities and the
simple implementation of one neuron, but take a look at GPUs too for it.

--
Frank Buss, http://www.frank-buss.de
electronics and more: http://www.youtube.com/user/frankbuss

 

[Brian Drummond]

On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 09:17:23 -0700, manusha1980 wrote:

On Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:32:18 PM UTC+5:30, Frank Buss wrote:
manusha1980@gmail.com wrote:

after few years i want to restart FPGA development once again -
initially for personel fun, but later may move in to commercial
development too. At the moment i am trying to find a suitable
processor core for the work.

How fast do you need it? I've used NIOS, the smallest version is free.

i'd like to have something that i can use for serious stuff, for example
mp3 encoding/decoding, implementing neural networks, decoding movies. I
started out with leon2/leon3 and things have been good so far. but still
interested in knowing alternatives.

If you're using a processor core for serious stuff, instead of using it
to control the serious stuff, you're probably missing the point of an
FPGA...

- Brian

 

[David Brown]

On 15/04/2012 18:17, manusha1980@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:32:18 PM UTC+5:30, Frank Buss wrote:
manusha1980@gmail.com wrote:

after few years i want to restart FPGA development once again -
initially for personel fun, but later may move in to commercial
development too. At the moment i am trying to find a suitable
processor core for the work. These are my requirements:

1. It must have a good documentation + tools + community support
2. It should be mature and future proof 3. Better if it is Free,
how ever commercial cores are OK too provided that i have the
full documentation + tool set for free to get started.


Few years back i played a little with openrisc. This time too i
initially wanted to go with it. However documentation for
openrisc seems to be extremely low and incomplete. Im not sure
the status of tools and support, but seems like they are lacking
as well. I'd like to get some advice from expert engineers about
this before going forward. Also like to know about better
alternatives as well.

How fast do you need it? I've used NIOS, the smallest version is
free. Sometimes a bit difficult to setup a project and to use
Eclipse, but when it works, it is nice, with integrated debugger.

i'd like to have something that i can use for serious stuff, for
example mp3 encoding/decoding, implementing neural networks, decoding
movies. I started out with leon2/leon3 and things have been good so
far. but still interested in knowing alternatives.

You can use a NIOS for serious stuff - you are not going to get anything
significantly faster in an FPGA soft core (I expect Xilinx's soft core
is similar). MP3 encoding/decoding is not /that/ demanding. Neural
networks, of course, scale from something that can run on a tiny
microcontroller to networks that take forever to run on the biggest
supercomputer, so they are a useless example.

Decoding video is not going to run in software on a 150/200 MHz
processor - you do the hard work in the FPGA itself. The trick here is
to bind it well with the NIOS - perhaps using custom instructions, or a
memory-mapped peripheral. You can even use Altera's tools for turning C
code into FPGA hardware.

There are also some FPGA's with hard cores (PPC or ARM). These will run
a lot faster, but cost a lot more.

 

[Rob Gaddi]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 09:04:29 +0200
David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:

You can use a NIOS for serious stuff - you are not going to get anything
significantly faster in an FPGA soft core (I expect Xilinx's soft core
is similar).

The II/s and II/f maybe. But the free II/e needs at least 6 cycles per
instruction. Altera's benchmarks on it are in the 20-30 MIPS range
for Cylone III, and even on a Stratix V don't get up to even 50 MIPS.
Sure they're tiny, you can parallel a mess of them, but they're really
meant for occasional control plane stuff rather than heavy lifting.

--
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order. See above to fix.

 

[David Brown]

On 16/04/2012 19:00, Rob Gaddi wrote:

On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 09:04:29 +0200
David Brown<david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:

[snip]

You can use a NIOS for serious stuff - you are not going to get anything
significantly faster in an FPGA soft core (I expect Xilinx's soft core
is similar).

The II/s and II/f maybe. But the free II/e needs at least 6 cycles per
instruction. Altera's benchmarks on it are in the 20-30 MIPS range
for Cylone III, and even on a Stratix V don't get up to even 50 MIPS.
Sure they're tiny, you can parallel a mess of them, but they're really
meant for occasional control plane stuff rather than heavy lifting.

Well, yes, I was referring to the "real" Nios's - the ones designed for
fast, efficient processing in a soft core, rather than the version aimed
at minimal space. As you say, the II/e has its usage - but not as a
fast processor.