RE-Tube amp questions

Thanks everyone for your answers. I guess I can see some of the
reasons why tube amps tend to be low power. I am going to try Jurb's
suggestion and check out Audiokarma. I have found a battery operated
headphone tube amp that uses tiny tubes that also looks interesting.
What I need to do is find someone local to me that has a tube amp in
the 8 to 16 watt range and listen to it. Then hook my Pioneer amp to
their speakers and see if I can hear a difference. Tubes can look
cool, especially the Magic Eye tubes. But if I want to use one of them
then I need to figure out a use for it in any tube amp I build. My old
Pioneer amp doesn't need to look cool but if I build something it had
better look cool to me.
Cheers,
Eric

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:31:52 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

Thanks everyone for your answers. I guess I can see some of the
reasons why tube amps tend to be low power. I am going to try Jurb's
suggestion and check out Audiokarma. I have found a battery operated
headphone tube amp that uses tiny tubes that also looks interesting.
What I need to do is find someone local to me that has a tube amp in
the 8 to 16 watt range and listen to it. Then hook my Pioneer amp to
their speakers and see if I can hear a difference. Tubes can look
cool, especially the Magic Eye tubes. But if I want to use one of them
then I need to figure out a use for it in any tube amp I build. My old
Pioneer amp doesn't need to look cool but if I build something it had
better look cool to me.
Cheers,
Eric

Tubes are hot, transistors are co-o-o-ol >:-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[John G]

Jim Thompson presented the following explanation :

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:31:52 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

Thanks everyone for your answers. I guess I can see some of the
reasons why tube amps tend to be low power. I am going to try Jurb's
suggestion and check out Audiokarma. I have found a battery operated
headphone tube amp that uses tiny tubes that also looks interesting.
What I need to do is find someone local to me that has a tube amp in
the 8 to 16 watt range and listen to it. Then hook my Pioneer amp to
their speakers and see if I can hear a difference. Tubes can look
cool, especially the Magic Eye tubes. But if I want to use one of them
then I need to figure out a use for it in any tube amp I build. My old
Pioneer amp doesn't need to look cool but if I build something it had
better look cool to me.
Cheers,
Eric

Tubes are hot, transistors are co-o-o-ol >:-}

...Jim Thompson

The Magic eye tube was generaly used as a tuning indicator driven by
the AGC (Automatic Volume Control)voltage and since you will neither
have tuning nor AGC in you amp, a Magic Eye will not be of much use
unless you drive it from the audio andjust let it wink 8-o away for
Cool Looks.

--
John G Sydney.

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 09:41:46 +1000, John G <john.g@green.com> wrote:

Jim Thompson presented the following explanation :
On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:31:52 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

Thanks everyone for your answers. I guess I can see some of the
reasons why tube amps tend to be low power. I am going to try Jurb's
suggestion and check out Audiokarma. I have found a battery operated
headphone tube amp that uses tiny tubes that also looks interesting.
What I need to do is find someone local to me that has a tube amp in
the 8 to 16 watt range and listen to it. Then hook my Pioneer amp to
their speakers and see if I can hear a difference. Tubes can look
cool, especially the Magic Eye tubes. But if I want to use one of them
then I need to figure out a use for it in any tube amp I build. My old
Pioneer amp doesn't need to look cool but if I build something it had
better look cool to me.
Cheers,
Eric

Tubes are hot, transistors are co-o-o-ol >:-}

...Jim Thompson

The Magic eye tube was generaly used as a tuning indicator driven by
the AGC (Automatic Volume Control)voltage and since you will neither
have tuning nor AGC in you amp, a Magic Eye will not be of much use
unless you drive it from the audio andjust let it wink 8-o away for
Cool Looks.

That's the sort of thing that get audiphools aroused >:-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

I used to have a Q meter that used a magic eye tube as a tuning indicator. The're kind of cool.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 03:06:02 -0700 (PDT), Phil Hobbs
<pcdhobbs@gmail.com> wrote:

I used to have a Q meter that used a magic eye tube as a tuning indicator. The're kind of cool.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Yep. I played around with them when I was a kid.... used to be
common-place tuning indicators on radios.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:31:52 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

Thanks everyone for your answers. I guess I can see some of the
reasons why tube amps tend to be low power. I am going to try Jurb's
suggestion and check out Audiokarma. I have found a battery operated
headphone tube amp that uses tiny tubes that also looks interesting.
What I need to do is find someone local to me that has a tube amp in
the 8 to 16 watt range and listen to it. Then hook my Pioneer amp to
their speakers and see if I can hear a difference. Tubes can look
cool, especially the Magic Eye tubes. But if I want to use one of them
then I need to figure out a use for it in any tube amp I build. My old
Pioneer amp doesn't need to look cool but if I build something it had
better look cool to me.
Cheers,
Eric

You can buy fake tubes that have LEDs inside that look like filaments.
Mount them on top of a nice Best Buy Panasonic receiver.

Sort of like this:

http://tinyurl.com/p65m8p3


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing laser drivers and controllers

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:34:51 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:31:52 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

Thanks everyone for your answers. I guess I can see some of the
reasons why tube amps tend to be low power. I am going to try Jurb's
suggestion and check out Audiokarma. I have found a battery operated
headphone tube amp that uses tiny tubes that also looks interesting.
What I need to do is find someone local to me that has a tube amp in
the 8 to 16 watt range and listen to it. Then hook my Pioneer amp to
their speakers and see if I can hear a difference. Tubes can look
cool, especially the Magic Eye tubes. But if I want to use one of them
then I need to figure out a use for it in any tube amp I build. My old
Pioneer amp doesn't need to look cool but if I build something it had
better look cool to me.
Cheers,
Eric

Tubes are hot, transistors are co-o-o-ol >:-}

...Jim Thompson

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eric

 

On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 07:44:13 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:31:52 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

Thanks everyone for your answers. I guess I can see some of the
reasons why tube amps tend to be low power. I am going to try Jurb's
suggestion and check out Audiokarma. I have found a battery operated
headphone tube amp that uses tiny tubes that also looks interesting.
What I need to do is find someone local to me that has a tube amp in
the 8 to 16 watt range and listen to it. Then hook my Pioneer amp to
their speakers and see if I can hear a difference. Tubes can look
cool, especially the Magic Eye tubes. But if I want to use one of them
then I need to figure out a use for it in any tube amp I build. My old
Pioneer amp doesn't need to look cool but if I build something it had
better look cool to me.
Cheers,
Eric

You can buy fake tubes that have LEDs inside that look like filaments.
Mount them on top of a nice Best Buy Panasonic receiver.

Sort of like this:

http://tinyurl.com/p65m8p3

I like new stuff and old stuff. I don't like fake stuff though. If I
want the tube look then I'll use real tubes to do the job. I think
that many things we use can be made esthetically pleasing, to me as
well as others. When I make stuff for myself I make it to please
myself. For example, when I make a special tool to use in my machine
shop I will put on chamfers or radii or if made from steel I'll color
the surface with a torch. Because it pleases me. I have several old
motors that I use on shop made tools. I like the look of old motors
and have found some pretty good looking motors for cheap at garage
sales and the like.
Eric

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 6/20/2015 10:44 AM, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:31:52 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

Thanks everyone for your answers. I guess I can see some of the
reasons why tube amps tend to be low power. I am going to try Jurb's
suggestion and check out Audiokarma. I have found a battery operated
headphone tube amp that uses tiny tubes that also looks interesting.
What I need to do is find someone local to me that has a tube amp in
the 8 to 16 watt range and listen to it. Then hook my Pioneer amp to
their speakers and see if I can hear a difference. Tubes can look
cool, especially the Magic Eye tubes. But if I want to use one of them
then I need to figure out a use for it in any tube amp I build. My old
Pioneer amp doesn't need to look cool but if I build something it had
better look cool to me.
Cheers,
Eric

You can buy fake tubes that have LEDs inside that look like filaments.
Mount them on top of a nice Best Buy Panasonic receiver.

Sort of like this:

http://tinyurl.com/p65m8p3


All my filaments glow blue too.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Phil Hobbs wrote:

All my filaments glow blue too.

No wonder they don't work.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 6/20/2015 5:13 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

All my filaments glow blue too.



No wonder they don't work.

Well, all I did was try saving a transformer by wiring all the filaments
to 120V--parallel, right?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 13:42:22 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 6/20/2015 10:44 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:31:52 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

Thanks everyone for your answers. I guess I can see some of the
reasons why tube amps tend to be low power. I am going to try Jurb's
suggestion and check out Audiokarma. I have found a battery operated
headphone tube amp that uses tiny tubes that also looks interesting.
What I need to do is find someone local to me that has a tube amp in
the 8 to 16 watt range and listen to it. Then hook my Pioneer amp to
their speakers and see if I can hear a difference. Tubes can look
cool, especially the Magic Eye tubes. But if I want to use one of them
then I need to figure out a use for it in any tube amp I build. My old
Pioneer amp doesn't need to look cool but if I build something it had
better look cool to me.
Cheers,
Eric

You can buy fake tubes that have LEDs inside that look like filaments.
Mount them on top of a nice Best Buy Panasonic receiver.

Sort of like this:

http://tinyurl.com/p65m8p3


All my filaments glow blue too.

That's a fake thyratron. They cost more.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing laser drivers and controllers

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 6/20/2015 5:13 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

All my filaments glow blue too.



No wonder they don't work.


Well, all I did was try saving a transformer by wiring all the filaments
to 120V--parallel, right?

Some tubes wouldn't mind 120 VAC on the filaments. On the other hand,
there were tubes with a pair of 1.5 VAC filaments at 1000A each. That
would blow your fuses!

 

"On the other hand,
there were tubes with a pair of 1.5 VAC filaments at 1000A each. "

Damn, that's worse than a microprocessor.

What kind of tube needs over a thousand watt heater ? I mean, I can understand high power transmitting tubes but it really takes that much to cause thermionic emission ?

They must be wanting alot of emission.

 

[default]

On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 10:01:54 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 07:44:13 -0700, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:31:52 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

Thanks everyone for your answers. I guess I can see some of the
reasons why tube amps tend to be low power. I am going to try Jurb's
suggestion and check out Audiokarma. I have found a battery operated
headphone tube amp that uses tiny tubes that also looks interesting.
What I need to do is find someone local to me that has a tube amp in
the 8 to 16 watt range and listen to it. Then hook my Pioneer amp to
their speakers and see if I can hear a difference. Tubes can look
cool, especially the Magic Eye tubes. But if I want to use one of them
then I need to figure out a use for it in any tube amp I build. My old
Pioneer amp doesn't need to look cool but if I build something it had
better look cool to me.
Cheers,
Eric

You can buy fake tubes that have LEDs inside that look like filaments.
Mount them on top of a nice Best Buy Panasonic receiver.

Sort of like this:

http://tinyurl.com/p65m8p3
I like new stuff and old stuff. I don't like fake stuff though. If I
want the tube look then I'll use real tubes to do the job. I think
that many things we use can be made esthetically pleasing, to me as
well as others. When I make stuff for myself I make it to please
myself. For example, when I make a special tool to use in my machine
shop I will put on chamfers or radii or if made from steel I'll color
the surface with a torch. Because it pleases me. I have several old
motors that I use on shop made tools. I like the look of old motors
and have found some pretty good looking motors for cheap at garage
sales and the like.
Eric

A purist. Some of us understand where you are at. ("coming from")

Function counts, appearance only counts if it is functional.

Ditto the new/old dichotomy, if I'm building something that Tesla
would, it is brass wood screws, oak cabinets, potting in beeswax, and
a lot of time and effort at staying in context.

Programmable IC's get perfboard and plastic.

My childhood was all screwing tube sockets to wooden bases and point
to point wiring. (and I miss it)

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 08:59:15 -0400, default <default@defaulter.net>
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 10:01:54 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 07:44:13 -0700, John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:31:52 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

Thanks everyone for your answers. I guess I can see some of the
reasons why tube amps tend to be low power. I am going to try Jurb's
suggestion and check out Audiokarma. I have found a battery operated
headphone tube amp that uses tiny tubes that also looks interesting.
What I need to do is find someone local to me that has a tube amp in
the 8 to 16 watt range and listen to it. Then hook my Pioneer amp to
their speakers and see if I can hear a difference. Tubes can look
cool, especially the Magic Eye tubes. But if I want to use one of them
then I need to figure out a use for it in any tube amp I build. My old
Pioneer amp doesn't need to look cool but if I build something it had
better look cool to me.
Cheers,
Eric

You can buy fake tubes that have LEDs inside that look like filaments.
Mount them on top of a nice Best Buy Panasonic receiver.

Sort of like this:

http://tinyurl.com/p65m8p3
I like new stuff and old stuff. I don't like fake stuff though. If I
want the tube look then I'll use real tubes to do the job. I think
that many things we use can be made esthetically pleasing, to me as
well as others. When I make stuff for myself I make it to please
myself. For example, when I make a special tool to use in my machine
shop I will put on chamfers or radii or if made from steel I'll color
the surface with a torch. Because it pleases me. I have several old
motors that I use on shop made tools. I like the look of old motors
and have found some pretty good looking motors for cheap at garage
sales and the like.
Eric

A purist. Some of us understand where you are at. ("coming from")

Function counts, appearance only counts if it is functional.

Ditto the new/old dichotomy, if I'm building something that Tesla
would, it is brass wood screws, oak cabinets, potting in beeswax, and
a lot of time and effort at staying in context.

Programmable IC's get perfboard and plastic.

My childhood was all screwing tube sockets to wooden bases and point
to point wiring. (and I miss it)

Copperclad is an art form.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Protos/Z356_EOM_Timer/Z356_Top.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Protos/LDP2.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/Protos/D200_BB_4.JPG


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing laser drivers and controllers

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 9:57:12 AM UTC-7, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

"On the other hand,
there were tubes with a pair of 1.5 VAC filaments at 1000A each. "

Damn, that's worse than a microprocessor.

What kind of tube needs over a thousand watt heater ? I mean, I can understand high power transmitting tubes but it really takes that much to cause thermionic emission ?

They must be wanting alot of emission.

The Harris BT18-L2 transmitter where I worked used 2 of these, one aural and one visual. Note the filament power. Not quite what Michael mentioned but up there.

http://www.cordi.com/pdf/88.pdf

G˛

 

Did you ever post on AK ?

Anyway, the amp you referenced is not the amp I would build. There are alot of options. Another thing is that it needs 4 volts to hit maximum output. Dmanear have to run it off a headphone jack, and that is not always the highest of fidelity. It is usually better than what would go to the speakers because it is unloaded, but most preamps do not put out that much, at least at low distortion. You would pretty much need a tube preamp and your choices are vintage or expensive. Either that or build a custom booster.

There is a guy on AK right now with that problem but it is not a tube amp, it is a commercial amp designed to run off a mixing board. In that case, I could modify his amp to have higher gain. This would not reduce performance much because the open loop gain is probably high as hell. But not so in a tube amp. Upping the gain of those frequently runs you into problems pertaining to harmonic distortion and even frequency response.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

stratus46@yahoo.com wrote:

On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 9:57:12 AM UTC-7, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
"On the other hand,
there were tubes with a pair of 1.5 VAC filaments at 1000A each. "

Damn, that's worse than a microprocessor.

What kind of tube needs over a thousand watt heater ? I mean, I can understand high power transmitting tubes but it really takes that much to cause thermionic emission ?

They must be wanting alot of emission.

The Harris BT18-L2 transmitter where I worked used 2 of these, one aural and one visual. Note the filament power. Not quite what Michael mentioned but up there.

http://www.cordi.com/pdf/88.pdf

G˛

This was the power tetrode in a RCA TTU-25B. 3 KW of heater for
visual, and 1.5 KW of heater for Aural. RCA designed the tubes for this
transmitter. It was one of the first 'high power UHF transmitters' at 25
KW Visual output.