Question for the gurus...

D

Dave

Guest
Need to rewire (to add a ground) several outlets in my house, which will
require that I locate the breaker serving each outlet. Wondering if I
couldn't build my own circuit breaker identifier out of a 9VDC wall-wart and
some junkbox parts. Am thinking I could just use the wall-wart to run a
10kHz oscillator, whose output would be picked up by the transformer in the
wall-wart and injected into the line thereby. A simple receiver with a
small coil antenna could be used at the breaker box to locate the breaker
with the signal going through it. The breaker with the loudest signal would
be the most likely one to shut off, to see if the signal stops. Bingo.
Leave that breaker off, test the outlet (just to make sure) and then unhook
the old wires and hook up the new wires to it before putting it back in the
wall. Sounds simple. Any obvious holes in my reasoning? I'm all ears...

And yes, I could buy a breaker identifier, but all the reasonably priced
ones seem to have questionable results with some people, or are cheaply
made.

Thanks,

Dave
 
Dave wrote:
Need to rewire (to add a ground) several outlets in my house, which will
require that I locate the breaker serving each outlet. Wondering if I
couldn't build my own circuit breaker identifier out of a 9VDC wall-wart and
some junkbox parts. Am thinking I could just use the wall-wart to run a
10kHz oscillator, whose output would be picked up by the transformer in the
wall-wart and injected into the line thereby. A simple receiver with a
small coil antenna could be used at the breaker box to locate the breaker
with the signal going through it. The breaker with the loudest signal would
be the most likely one to shut off, to see if the signal stops. Bingo.
Leave that breaker off, test the outlet (just to make sure) and then unhook
the old wires and hook up the new wires to it before putting it back in the
wall. Sounds simple. Any obvious holes in my reasoning? I'm all ears...

And yes, I could buy a breaker identifier, but all the reasonably priced
ones seem to have questionable results with some people, or are cheaply
made.

Thanks,

Dave


What's the matter with just switching off breakers one by one and seeing
Click to expand...
what stops working? You'll spend less time resetting all your clocks
than you will making your fox & hound set, and it'll give you a chance
to label the box properly, so you'll only have to do it once.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
 
In article <RJKdnXzc5ulc1CbWnZ2dnUVZ_s6unZ2d@web-ster.com>,
Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote:

Dave wrote:
Need to rewire (to add a ground) several outlets in my house, which will
require that I locate the breaker serving each outlet. Wondering if I
couldn't build my own circuit breaker identifier out of a 9VDC wall-wart
and
some junkbox parts. Am thinking I could just use the wall-wart to run a
10kHz oscillator, whose output would be picked up by the transformer in the
wall-wart and injected into the line thereby. A simple receiver with a
small coil antenna could be used at the breaker box to locate the breaker
with the signal going through it. The breaker with the loudest signal
would
be the most likely one to shut off, to see if the signal stops. Bingo.
Leave that breaker off, test the outlet (just to make sure) and then unhook
the old wires and hook up the new wires to it before putting it back in the
wall. Sounds simple. Any obvious holes in my reasoning? I'm all ears...

And yes, I could buy a breaker identifier, but all the reasonably priced
ones seem to have questionable results with some people, or are cheaply
made.

Thanks,

Dave


What's the matter with just switching off breakers one by one and seeing
what stops working? You'll spend less time resetting all your clocks
than you will making your fox & hound set, and it'll give you a chance
to label the box properly, so you'll only have to do it once.
Click to expand...
For any house smaller than stately Wayne manor, a plug in radio works
perfectly. Crank it up, listen for the sudden quiet, know which breaker
goes to that outlet. As Tim says, fix the labels - if you don't already
*know* which breaker goes to an outlet (and then *verify* that with the
radio) your box is *not* properly labeled. You can also label the other
end (put breaker position numbers on the outlet plates.) Beware of split
outlets where the top and bottom *may* be fed by different sources (ie,
the typical outlet/switched outlet for a lamp arrangement.)

If you live in stately Wayne manor, you can have Albert listen and call
you on the bat communicator when the radio turns off. You can also use
lamps if you have an assistant, or can use the exercise going back and
forth - it would still take less time than the fox/hound foolishness,
and no money at all.

Shut down the bat (or otherwise) computer before you start flipping
breakers.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
 
Dave wrote:
Need to rewire (to add a ground) several outlets in my house, which will
require that I locate the breaker serving each outlet. Wondering if I
couldn't build my own circuit breaker identifier out of a 9VDC wall-wart and
some junkbox parts. Am thinking I could just use the wall-wart to run a
10kHz oscillator, whose output would be picked up by the transformer in the
wall-wart and injected into the line thereby. A simple receiver with a
small coil antenna could be used at the breaker box to locate the breaker
with the signal going through it. The breaker with the loudest signal would
be the most likely one to shut off, to see if the signal stops. Bingo.
Leave that breaker off, test the outlet (just to make sure) and then unhook
the old wires and hook up the new wires to it before putting it back in the
wall. Sounds simple. Any obvious holes in my reasoning? I'm all ears...

And yes, I could buy a breaker identifier, but all the reasonably priced
ones seem to have questionable results with some people, or are cheaply
made.

Thanks,

Dave


You could use a radio and turn off each breaker individually but i doubt
Click to expand...
you could hear the radio throughout the house.

And using a light won't work unless you have a one bedroom house.

The best way to go about labeling your circuits would be to:

[1] Get one of them 110 volt to car cigarette lighter adapters.
[2] Plug in an Ipod car FM transmitter
[3] Plug it in to a compatible Ipod
[4] Download Lady Gaga's "Penis Face" on to your Ipod
[5] Put "Penis Face" on repeat
[6] Get an FM radio walkman
[7] Tune the walkman to the channel that the Ipod Transmitter is tuned to.
[8] Quickly go to the fuse box and turn off each circuit breaker or pull
each fuse until "Penis Face" turns to static.
[9] If unidentifed_circuits>0 then goto 1

I strongly suggest that you label each circuit with a magic marker to
avoid having to go through this ordeal again.

Whatever you do, don't just simply shut off the main breaker permanently
just to avoid hearing "Penis Face" one more time.
 
"Dave" <db5151@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZLGdnb6RZtCI2CbWnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica...
Need to rewire (to add a ground) several outlets in my house, which will
require that I locate the breaker serving each outlet. Wondering if I
couldn't build my own circuit breaker identifier out of a 9VDC wall-wart
and some junkbox parts. Am thinking I could just use the wall-wart to run
a 10kHz oscillator, whose output would be picked up by the transformer in
the wall-wart and injected into the line thereby. A simple receiver with
a small coil antenna could be used at the breaker box to locate the
breaker with the signal going through it. The breaker with the loudest
signal would be the most likely one to shut off, to see if the signal
stops. Bingo. Leave that breaker off, test the outlet (just to make sure)
and then unhook the old wires and hook up the new wires to it before
putting it back in the wall. Sounds simple. Any obvious holes in my
reasoning? I'm all ears...

And yes, I could buy a breaker identifier, but all the reasonably priced
ones seem to have questionable results with some people, or are cheaply
made.

Thanks,

Dave
Click to expand...
Fox & hound, stately Wayne Manor? I cannot respond seriously to THIS
foolishness. I asked a reasonable question. Anyone who has serious input
is welcome to reply. Others will be happily ignored. I'm off to get my Op
Amp Cookook and my IC Timer cookbook out and raid my junkbox. I'll let you
know how it turns out.

Take it easy...

Dave
 
"Ecnerwal" <MyNameForward@ReplaceWithMyVices.Com.invalid> wrote in message
news:MyNameForward-E56363.11092306042010@h1744866.stratoserver.net...
In article <RJKdnXzc5ulc1CbWnZ2dnUVZ_s6unZ2d@web-ster.com>,
Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote:

snip

If you live in stately Wayne manor, you can have Albert listen and call
you on the bat communicator when the radio turns off.

snip
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Click to expand...
Great except that the butler is named Alfred!!! :)




--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
 
Jon wrote:
"Ecnerwal" <MyNameForward@ReplaceWithMyVices.Com.invalid> wrote in message
news:MyNameForward-E56363.11092306042010@h1744866.stratoserver.net...
In article <RJKdnXzc5ulc1CbWnZ2dnUVZ_s6unZ2d@web-ster.com>,
Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote:

snip
If you live in stately Wayne manor, you can have Albert listen and call
you on the bat communicator when the radio turns off.

snip
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Great except that the butler is named Alfred!!! :)
Click to expand...
He expired from old age, and was replaced by his nephew.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
 
Dave wrote:
"Dave" <db5151@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZLGdnb6RZtCI2CbWnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica...
Need to rewire (to add a ground) several outlets in my house, which will
require that I locate the breaker serving each outlet. Wondering if I
couldn't build my own circuit breaker identifier out of a 9VDC wall-wart
and some junkbox parts. Am thinking I could just use the wall-wart to run
a 10kHz oscillator, whose output would be picked up by the transformer in
the wall-wart and injected into the line thereby. A simple receiver with
a small coil antenna could be used at the breaker box to locate the
breaker with the signal going through it. The breaker with the loudest
signal would be the most likely one to shut off, to see if the signal
stops. Bingo. Leave that breaker off, test the outlet (just to make sure)
and then unhook the old wires and hook up the new wires to it before
putting it back in the wall. Sounds simple. Any obvious holes in my
reasoning? I'm all ears...

And yes, I could buy a breaker identifier, but all the reasonably priced
ones seem to have questionable results with some people, or are cheaply
made.

Thanks,

Dave



Fox & hound, stately Wayne Manor? I cannot respond seriously to THIS
foolishness. I asked a reasonable question. Anyone who has serious input
is welcome to reply. Others will be happily ignored. I'm off to get my Op
Amp Cookook and my IC Timer cookbook out and raid my junkbox. I'll let you
know how it turns out.
Click to expand...
The gizmo (pair of gizmos, actually) that you're proposing to build are
known in the trade as a "Fox and Hound". I believe there's even one
bnand that's named that. The transmit side is the fox, the sniffer side
is the hound.

Building them for one house's worth of work, particularly on the mains
wiring, is -- quite seriously -- a total waste of time. They're
exceedingly handy if you're a telephone technician, though.

So if you want to engage in foolishness from a time management
perspective, get out your op-amp cookbook and have fun -- just remember
that you're wasting time, and enjoy yourself.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
 
Dave wrote:
"Dave" <db5151@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZLGdnb6RZtCI2CbWnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica...
Need to rewire (to add a ground) several outlets in my house, which will
require that I locate the breaker serving each outlet. Wondering if I
couldn't build my own circuit breaker identifier out of a 9VDC wall-wart
and some junkbox parts. Am thinking I could just use the wall-wart to run
a 10kHz oscillator, whose output would be picked up by the transformer in
the wall-wart and injected into the line thereby. A simple receiver with
a small coil antenna could be used at the breaker box to locate the
breaker with the signal going through it. The breaker with the loudest
signal would be the most likely one to shut off, to see if the signal
stops. Bingo. Leave that breaker off, test the outlet (just to make sure)
and then unhook the old wires and hook up the new wires to it before
putting it back in the wall. Sounds simple. Any obvious holes in my
reasoning? I'm all ears...

And yes, I could buy a breaker identifier, but all the reasonably priced
ones seem to have questionable results with some people, or are cheaply
made.

Thanks,

Dave



Fox & hound, stately Wayne Manor? I cannot respond seriously to THIS
foolishness. I asked a reasonable question. Anyone who has serious input
is welcome to reply. Others will be happily ignored. I'm off to get my Op
Amp Cookook and my IC Timer cookbook out and raid my junkbox. I'll let you
know how it turns out.

Take it easy...
Click to expand...

Make sure to tell your family where to bury you before you start.
Obviously your sense of humor is long dead.


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'
 
"Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote in message
news:X8mdnWzAveJt_SbWnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@web-ster.com...
Jon wrote:
"Ecnerwal" <MyNameForward@ReplaceWithMyVices.Com.invalid> wrote in
message
news:MyNameForward-E56363.11092306042010@h1744866.stratoserver.net...
In article <RJKdnXzc5ulc1CbWnZ2dnUVZ_s6unZ2d@web-ster.com>,
Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote:

snip
If you live in stately Wayne manor, you can have Albert listen and call
you on the bat communicator when the radio turns off.

snip
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Great except that the butler is named Alfred!!! :)

He expired from old age, and was replaced by his nephew.
Click to expand...
Oh, in the film version...I stand corrected Tim.

Dave, don't be so serious, we just having some fun. Tim's
advice to use a radio is how many of us go about labeling
the breaker box. As Tim stated, you can label the outlet
end as well, I do so with a sharpie permanent marker on the
inside of the plate.

If you opt to build your own oscillator, you can inject the signal
onto the hot lead and if you can still find an A.M. radio, use that
as the detector. Obviously, you should also set the oscillator for
the frequency of the A.M. broadcast band.




--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
Click to expand...


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
 
"Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote in message
news:2NKdnQjvaq5L_CbWnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d@web-ster.com...
Dave wrote:
"Dave" <db5151@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZLGdnb6RZtCI2CbWnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica...
Need to rewire (to add a ground) several outlets in my house, which will
require that I locate the breaker serving each outlet. Wondering if I
couldn't build my own circuit breaker identifier out of a 9VDC wall-wart
and some junkbox parts. Am thinking I could just use the wall-wart to
run a 10kHz oscillator, whose output would be picked up by the
transformer in the wall-wart and injected into the line thereby. A
simple receiver with a small coil antenna could be used at the breaker
box to locate the breaker with the signal going through it. The breaker
with the loudest signal would be the most likely one to shut off, to see
if the signal stops. Bingo. Leave that breaker off, test the outlet
(just to make sure) and then unhook the old wires and hook up the new
wires to it before putting it back in the wall. Sounds simple. Any
obvious holes in my reasoning? I'm all ears...

And yes, I could buy a breaker identifier, but all the reasonably priced
ones seem to have questionable results with some people, or are cheaply
made.

Thanks,

Dave



Fox & hound, stately Wayne Manor? I cannot respond seriously to THIS
foolishness. I asked a reasonable question. Anyone who has serious
input is welcome to reply. Others will be happily ignored. I'm off to
get my Op Amp Cookook and my IC Timer cookbook out and raid my junkbox.
I'll let you know how it turns out.

The gizmo (pair of gizmos, actually) that you're proposing to build are
known in the trade as a "Fox and Hound". I believe there's even one bnand
that's named that. The transmit side is the fox, the sniffer side is the
hound.

Building them for one house's worth of work, particularly on the mains
wiring, is -- quite seriously -- a total waste of time. They're
exceedingly handy if you're a telephone technician, though.

So if you want to engage in foolishness from a time management
perspective, get out your op-amp cookbook and have fun -- just remember
that you're wasting time, and enjoy yourself.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
Click to expand...
Haaaaah. Okay, my apologies. I thought the Fox and Hound reference was an
attempt at some sort of off humor. My mistake. I do apologize for jumping
to conclusions.

I have been checking these devices out on Amazon.com and the local hardware
outlets, and decided that the only decent ones were $50.00 or more, which I
have a hard time justifying for the sole purpose of labeling my breaker box.
And I am not afraid of wasting time, as time is all I have (along with an
overflowing junk box.). Besides, saving money is not a waste of time to me.
I still have my toolbox and most of my equipment, and regularly fix things
for family and friends. So I figured this would merely be an addition to
the repertoire, and would be fun to build.

So anyway, do any of you see any holes in the logic of what I suggested
(besides the time factor)? I have a ton of wall-warts, several 741s and
555s, as well as transistors off all types galore. Not sure what I *don't*
have (besides the appropriately tuned sense of humor.) Open to suggestions
(that don't involve bodily orifices.)

Thanks for the reality check, and again I am sorry I jumped so easily to
conclusions.

Dave
 
Dave wrote:
"Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote in message
news:2NKdnQjvaq5L_CbWnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d@web-ster.com...
Dave wrote:
"Dave" <db5151@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZLGdnb6RZtCI2CbWnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica...
Need to rewire (to add a ground) several outlets in my house, which will
require that I locate the breaker serving each outlet. Wondering if I
couldn't build my own circuit breaker identifier out of a 9VDC wall-wart
and some junkbox parts. Am thinking I could just use the wall-wart to
run a 10kHz oscillator, whose output would be picked up by the
transformer in the wall-wart and injected into the line thereby. A
simple receiver with a small coil antenna could be used at the breaker
box to locate the breaker with the signal going through it. The breaker
with the loudest signal would be the most likely one to shut off, to see
if the signal stops. Bingo. Leave that breaker off, test the outlet
(just to make sure) and then unhook the old wires and hook up the new
wires to it before putting it back in the wall. Sounds simple. Any
obvious holes in my reasoning? I'm all ears...

And yes, I could buy a breaker identifier, but all the reasonably priced
ones seem to have questionable results with some people, or are cheaply
made.

Thanks,

Dave


Fox & hound, stately Wayne Manor? I cannot respond seriously to THIS
foolishness. I asked a reasonable question. Anyone who has serious
input is welcome to reply. Others will be happily ignored. I'm off to
get my Op Amp Cookook and my IC Timer cookbook out and raid my junkbox.
I'll let you know how it turns out.
The gizmo (pair of gizmos, actually) that you're proposing to build are
known in the trade as a "Fox and Hound". I believe there's even one bnand
that's named that. The transmit side is the fox, the sniffer side is the
hound.

Building them for one house's worth of work, particularly on the mains
wiring, is -- quite seriously -- a total waste of time. They're
exceedingly handy if you're a telephone technician, though.

So if you want to engage in foolishness from a time management
perspective, get out your op-amp cookbook and have fun -- just remember
that you're wasting time, and enjoy yourself.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

Haaaaah. Okay, my apologies. I thought the Fox and Hound reference was an
attempt at some sort of off humor. My mistake. I do apologize for jumping
to conclusions.

I have been checking these devices out on Amazon.com and the local hardware
outlets, and decided that the only decent ones were $50.00 or more, which I
have a hard time justifying for the sole purpose of labeling my breaker box.
And I am not afraid of wasting time, as time is all I have (along with an
overflowing junk box.). Besides, saving money is not a waste of time to me.
I still have my toolbox and most of my equipment, and regularly fix things
for family and friends. So I figured this would merely be an addition to
the repertoire, and would be fun to build.

So anyway, do any of you see any holes in the logic of what I suggested
(besides the time factor)? I have a ton of wall-warts, several 741s and
555s, as well as transistors off all types galore. Not sure what I *don't*
have (besides the appropriately tuned sense of humor.) Open to suggestions
(that don't involve bodily orifices.)

Thanks for the reality check, and again I am sorry I jumped so easily to
conclusions.

Dave


It's a moderately easy circuit to build. The good ones don't use a
Click to expand...
single frequency tone -- they switch, so the tone has a distinctive
"beedle beedle beedle" warble to it. They also use a high-impedance
input stage, so the signal will capacitively couple to the receiver
before it actually makes contact -- this is exceedingly handy when
you're sorting through a 25-pair bundle of wires looking for the one
pair that goes to the second phone jack in the Boss's office!

That high-impedance input stage is usually a FET preamplifier, you'd
shave a lot of development time if you could find an example circuit on
the web already.

Much of the value in the professional gear is that it all comes packaged
so that you can drop it off a 25' ladder onto concrete, pick it up, and
use it. Think about that when you're planning on how to package yours.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
 
"Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote in message
news:gqidnYawJ7Zn5CbWnZ2dnUVZ_qKdnZ2d@web-ster.com...
Dave wrote:
"Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote in message
news:2NKdnQjvaq5L_CbWnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d@web-ster.com...
Dave wrote:
"Dave" <db5151@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZLGdnb6RZtCI2CbWnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica...
Need to rewire (to add a ground) several outlets in my house, which
will require that I locate the breaker serving each outlet. Wondering
if I couldn't build my own circuit breaker identifier out of a 9VDC
wall-wart and some junkbox parts. Am thinking I could just use the
wall-wart to run a 10kHz oscillator, whose output would be picked up
by the transformer in the wall-wart and injected into the line
thereby. A simple receiver with a small coil antenna could be used at
the breaker box to locate the breaker with the signal going through
it. The breaker with the loudest signal would be the most likely one
to shut off, to see if the signal stops. Bingo. Leave that breaker
off, test the outlet (just to make sure) and then unhook the old wires
and hook up the new wires to it before putting it back in the wall.
Sounds simple. Any obvious holes in my reasoning? I'm all ears...

And yes, I could buy a breaker identifier, but all the reasonably
priced ones seem to have questionable results with some people, or are
cheaply made.

Thanks,

Dave


Fox & hound, stately Wayne Manor? I cannot respond seriously to THIS
foolishness. I asked a reasonable question. Anyone who has serious
input is welcome to reply. Others will be happily ignored. I'm off to
get my Op Amp Cookook and my IC Timer cookbook out and raid my junkbox.
I'll let you know how it turns out.
The gizmo (pair of gizmos, actually) that you're proposing to build are
known in the trade as a "Fox and Hound". I believe there's even one
bnand that's named that. The transmit side is the fox, the sniffer side
is the hound.

Building them for one house's worth of work, particularly on the mains
wiring, is -- quite seriously -- a total waste of time. They're
exceedingly handy if you're a telephone technician, though.

So if you want to engage in foolishness from a time management
perspective, get out your op-amp cookbook and have fun -- just remember
that you're wasting time, and enjoy yourself.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

Haaaaah. Okay, my apologies. I thought the Fox and Hound reference was
an attempt at some sort of off humor. My mistake. I do apologize for
jumping to conclusions.

I have been checking these devices out on Amazon.com and the local
hardware outlets, and decided that the only decent ones were $50.00 or
more, which I have a hard time justifying for the sole purpose of
labeling my breaker box. And I am not afraid of wasting time, as time is
all I have (along with an overflowing junk box.). Besides, saving money
is not a waste of time to me. I still have my toolbox and most of my
equipment, and regularly fix things for family and friends. So I figured
this would merely be an addition to the repertoire, and would be fun to
build.

So anyway, do any of you see any holes in the logic of what I suggested
(besides the time factor)? I have a ton of wall-warts, several 741s and
555s, as well as transistors off all types galore. Not sure what I
*don't* have (besides the appropriately tuned sense of humor.) Open to
suggestions (that don't involve bodily orifices.)

Thanks for the reality check, and again I am sorry I jumped so easily to
conclusions.

Dave


It's a moderately easy circuit to build. The good ones don't use a single
frequency tone -- they switch, so the tone has a distinctive "beedle
beedle beedle" warble to it. They also use a high-impedance input stage,
so the signal will capacitively couple to the receiver before it actually
makes contact -- this is exceedingly handy when you're sorting through a
25-pair bundle of wires looking for the one pair that goes to the second
phone jack in the Boss's office!

That high-impedance input stage is usually a FET preamplifier, you'd shave
a lot of development time if you could find an example circuit on the web
already.

Much of the value in the professional gear is that it all comes packaged
so that you can drop it off a 25' ladder onto concrete, pick it up, and
use it. Think about that when you're planning on how to package yours.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
Click to expand...
Thanks Tim,

I'm thinking I'll probably use an NTE451 for the JFET front end of the
receiver, as I built something else with those at one point and believe I
had the biasing worked out fairly well. I am guessing I will drive
something like an NTE85 (an audio amp) with that and feed that output to a
small meter movement I have sitting around for a visual indicator. For the
fox part, I am expecting to drive an NTE199 (bipolar with a gain of around
400) with the 741 in astable mode, which is in turn driven by a 555
operating as a multivibrator at 10kHz. Or at least that's what I have in
mind at this point. Also thinking I can tune the receiver with NTE618s
(varactor with 10pF to >400pF characteristics with voltages varying from
9VDC to <1VDC) and an Amidon T50-2 toroid core that I will wind, probably
with #24 single conductor insulated wire. Or, if I can, I'll try to make
use of some 18uH toroids I saw recently at my candy store.

This last half is the most speculative, I think, but I can work out the bugs
when I get to them I expect.

Thoughts are welcome. And thanks again for the explanatin of the fox &
hound reference.

Dave
 
Dave Inscribed thus:

"Dave" <db5151@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZLGdnb6RZtCI2CbWnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica...
Need to rewire (to add a ground) several outlets in my house, which
will
require that I locate the breaker serving each outlet. Wondering if
I couldn't build my own circuit breaker identifier out of a 9VDC
wall-wart
and some junkbox parts. Am thinking I could just use the wall-wart
to run a 10kHz oscillator, whose output would be picked up by the
transformer in
the wall-wart and injected into the line thereby. A simple receiver
with a small coil antenna could be used at the breaker box to locate
the
breaker with the signal going through it. The breaker with the
loudest signal would be the most likely one to shut off, to see if
the signal
stops. Bingo. Leave that breaker off, test the outlet (just to make
sure) and then unhook the old wires and hook up the new wires to it
before
putting it back in the wall. Sounds simple. Any obvious holes in my
reasoning? I'm all ears...

And yes, I could buy a breaker identifier, but all the reasonably
priced ones seem to have questionable results with some people, or
are cheaply made.

Thanks,

Dave



Fox & hound, stately Wayne Manor? I cannot respond seriously to THIS
foolishness. I asked a reasonable question. Anyone who has serious
input is welcome to reply. Others will be happily ignored. I'm off
to get my Op Amp Cookook and my IC Timer cookbook out and raid my
junkbox. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Take it easy...

Dave
Click to expand...
In all seriousness, plugging in a radio and listening for it going quiet
when you find the correct breaker works for me ! As does a lamp and
checking for it going out.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.
 
Dave Inscribed thus:

"Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote in message
news:2NKdnQjvaq5L_CbWnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d@web-ster.com...
Dave wrote:
"Dave" <db5151@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZLGdnb6RZtCI2CbWnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica...
Need to rewire (to add a ground) several outlets in my house, which
will
require that I locate the breaker serving each outlet. Wondering
if I couldn't build my own circuit breaker identifier out of a 9VDC
wall-wart
and some junkbox parts. Am thinking I could just use the wall-wart
to run a 10kHz oscillator, whose output would be picked up by the
transformer in the wall-wart and injected into the line thereby. A
simple receiver with a small coil antenna could be used at the
breaker
box to locate the breaker with the signal going through it. The
breaker with the loudest signal would be the most likely one to
shut off, to see
if the signal stops. Bingo. Leave that breaker off, test the
outlet (just to make sure) and then unhook the old wires and hook
up the new
wires to it before putting it back in the wall. Sounds simple.
Any
obvious holes in my reasoning? I'm all ears...

And yes, I could buy a breaker identifier, but all the reasonably
priced ones seem to have questionable results with some people, or
are cheaply made.

Thanks,

Dave



Fox & hound, stately Wayne Manor? I cannot respond seriously to
THIS
foolishness. I asked a reasonable question. Anyone who has serious
input is welcome to reply. Others will be happily ignored. I'm off
to get my Op Amp Cookook and my IC Timer cookbook out and raid my
junkbox. I'll let you know how it turns out.

The gizmo (pair of gizmos, actually) that you're proposing to build
are
known in the trade as a "Fox and Hound". I believe there's even one
bnand
that's named that. The transmit side is the fox, the sniffer side is
the hound.

Building them for one house's worth of work, particularly on the
mains
wiring, is -- quite seriously -- a total waste of time. They're
exceedingly handy if you're a telephone technician, though.

So if you want to engage in foolishness from a time management
perspective, get out your op-amp cookbook and have fun -- just
remember that you're wasting time, and enjoy yourself.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

Haaaaah. Okay, my apologies. I thought the Fox and Hound reference
was an
attempt at some sort of off humor. My mistake. I do apologize for
jumping to conclusions.

I have been checking these devices out on Amazon.com and the local
hardware outlets, and decided that the only decent ones were $50.00 or
more, which I have a hard time justifying for the sole purpose of
labeling my breaker box. And I am not afraid of wasting time, as time
is all I have (along with an
overflowing junk box.). Besides, saving money is not a waste of time
to me. I still have my toolbox and most of my equipment, and regularly
fix things
for family and friends. So I figured this would merely be an addition
to the repertoire, and would be fun to build.

So anyway, do any of you see any holes in the logic of what I
suggested (besides the time factor)? I have a ton of wall-warts,
several 741s and 555s, as well as transistors off all types galore.
Not sure what I *don't* have (besides the appropriately tuned sense of
humor.) Open to suggestions (that don't involve bodily orifices.)
Click to expand...
From a safety point of view, batteries may be better.

Thanks for the reality check, and again I am sorry I jumped so easily
to conclusions.

Dave
Click to expand...
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
 
On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 09:28:26 -0500, "Dave" <db5151@hotmail.com> wrote:

Need to rewire (to add a ground) several outlets in my house, which will
require that I locate the breaker serving each outlet. Wondering if I
couldn't build my own circuit breaker identifier out of a 9VDC wall-wart and
some junkbox parts. Am thinking I could just use the wall-wart to run a
10kHz oscillator, whose output would be picked up by the transformer in the
wall-wart and injected into the line thereby. A simple receiver with a
small coil antenna could be used at the breaker box to locate the breaker
with the signal going through it. The breaker with the loudest signal would
be the most likely one to shut off, to see if the signal stops. Bingo.
Leave that breaker off, test the outlet (just to make sure) and then unhook
the old wires and hook up the new wires to it before putting it back in the
wall. Sounds simple. Any obvious holes in my reasoning? I'm all ears...

And yes, I could buy a breaker identifier, but all the reasonably priced
ones seem to have questionable results with some people, or are cheaply
made.

Thanks,

Dave
Click to expand...
Why not use a kid? Plug a lamp into each outlet and station the kid,
on a cell phone, to tell you if the lamp is on or off. You flip the
breakers.

No kid handy? Plug a space heater into one outlet at a time, go the
the breaker box, measure currents with a clamp-on ammeter.

John
 
In article <hpge71$rsi$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
Patti Bryant <patti@bryantrv.com> wrote:

You could use a radio and turn off each breaker individually but i doubt
you could hear the radio throughout the house.
Click to expand...
You're either very deaf or you have a _very_ large house, aka, Stately
Wayne Manor. More likely, you live under a poorly built bridge.

And using a light won't work unless you have a one bedroom house.
Click to expand...
It's actually possible to walk from the breaker panel to the room with
the outlet, though extremely lazy people could use an extension cord run
back to where it can be seen at the breaker panel. I saw Neil Armstong
take one small step live and I have a dodgy knee, and I still can manage
to climb the stairs from the breaker box to see if a lamp has gone out
multiple times in a single hour. Which is about what it took when I
sorted out a poorly labeled 3 bedroom house and didn't have a radio
handy, nor care to put it off to track one down, when there were
perfectly good lamps handy.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
 
Tim Wescott wrote:
Dave wrote:
Need to rewire (to add a ground) several outlets in my house, which
will require that I locate the breaker serving each outlet. Wondering
if I couldn't build my own circuit breaker identifier out of a 9VDC
wall-wart and some junkbox parts. Am thinking I could just use the
wall-wart to run a 10kHz oscillator, whose output would be picked up
by the transformer in the wall-wart and injected into the line
thereby. A simple receiver with a small coil antenna could be used at
the breaker box to locate the breaker with the signal going through
it. The breaker with the loudest signal would be the most likely one
to shut off, to see if the signal stops. Bingo. Leave that breaker
off, test the outlet (just to make sure) and then unhook the old wires
and hook up the new wires to it before putting it back in the wall.
Sounds simple. Any obvious holes in my reasoning? I'm all ears...

And yes, I could buy a breaker identifier, but all the reasonably
priced ones seem to have questionable results with some people, or are
cheaply made.

Thanks,

Dave


What's the matter with just switching off breakers one by one and seeing
what stops working? You'll spend less time resetting all your clocks
than you will making your fox & hound set, and it'll give you a chance
to label the box properly, so you'll only have to do it once.
Click to expand...
I also labeled the actual switch and socket plates on the reverse
side with the breaker number. As long as I am going to have to remove
the plate anyway to effect repair I can just read the number.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
 
"Dan" <B2431B@aol.com> wrote in message
news:eek:_Uun.73177$NH1.58775@newsfe14.iad...
Tim Wescott wrote:
Dave wrote:
Need to rewire (to add a ground) several outlets in my house, which will
require that I locate the breaker serving each outlet. Wondering if I
couldn't build my own circuit breaker identifier out of a 9VDC wall-wart
and some junkbox parts. Am thinking I could just use the wall-wart to
run a 10kHz oscillator, whose output would be picked up by the
transformer in the wall-wart and injected into the line thereby. A
simple receiver with a small coil antenna could be used at the breaker
box to locate the breaker with the signal going through it. The breaker
with the loudest signal would be the most likely one to shut off, to see
if the signal stops. Bingo. Leave that breaker off, test the outlet
(just to make sure) and then unhook the old wires and hook up the new
wires to it before putting it back in the wall. Sounds simple. Any
obvious holes in my reasoning? I'm all ears...

And yes, I could buy a breaker identifier, but all the reasonably priced
ones seem to have questionable results with some people, or are cheaply
made.

Thanks,

Dave


What's the matter with just switching off breakers one by one and seeing
what stops working? You'll spend less time resetting all your clocks
than you will making your fox & hound set, and it'll give you a chance to
label the box properly, so you'll only have to do it once.


I also labeled the actual switch and socket plates on the reverse side
with the breaker number. As long as I am going to have to remove the plate
anyway to effect repair I can just read the number.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
Click to expand...
*Good idea* Thank you.

Dave
 
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