Question about dealing with electronics sales reps.

[Active8]

Hi:

I'd like to know at what point, if any, I should have blew my top
with these sales reps.

Situation:

I started dealing (on the phone) with a VP of outside sales I was
refered to by the manufacturer of the IC's for which I needed
samples. He is only in the office the first 2 or 3 days of the week.
Without explanation, many of my e-mails ended up being handled by an
inside sales rep who finally filled me in on the company heirarchy,
kinda tongue in cheek.

By December, I had the samples of these RF chips. They've been
verified with (some mfg's.) XTALs and muRata ceramic resonators.
I've never had a problem getting fast action from muRata.

muRata discontinued ("de-emphasized) the resonator I needed because
they want to push their 3 terminal resonators (built in caps) and I
knew they wouldn't work. The RFIC app engr concurred.

That started another back and forth between me, the VP, and the app
engr., who didn't know about the stunt muRata pulled. Finally the VP
relayed something from the app engineer about a part from a company
they don't represent. I wasn't told about the commo with the app
engr, or the fact that they don't rep that mfg. Then the VP
disappeared again leaving me and the inside rep to figure out what
the hell he was talking about.

Finally, 3 weeks or so after finding out muRata was out of the
picture, the week before Christmas, the inside rep sent me to a
website of a resonator mfg that they *do* rep. Moving quickly to
beat the holiday, I checked the specs and options for the parts and
came up with part numbers. I e-mailed the rep back on 18 DEC with
the part numbers and specifically stated that I had X samples of
each chip and no rocks or resonators and yes, the following part
numbers meet the specs and thanks a lot.

You'd think, after sending me samples and eval boards, and talking
about sourcing resonators, they'd realize without being told that I
need them to get me the stinkin' resonators, otherwise I'd have
already ordered them from Digi-Key or someone.

No answer. I didn't hassle the rep during the week of Christmas nor
the time between then and New Year's day. Then I inquired again this
week.

Three days later, I got an e-mail from the rep asking whether I
needed the parts or just prices, so I snipped and resent all the
relevant previous discussion to refresh the rep's memory. They've
only been told twice that my customer wanted to do an initial run
requiring some 1500 IC's this month. I also didn't mention the fact
that they've been jerking around for a month or so.

Now as much time as I spent dealing with this rep, which will result
in a single source for parts (that can be changed later of course) I
didn't get the impression at any point that I would need to look
elsewhere, so I can't just say "screw you" and go elsewhere without
incurring further delay.

Question:

At what point do you say, "Look. You're jerking me around. *I* am
the customer, not you. If you can't keep track of what you're
working on, understand the products and related components, and
listen to what your customer needs, I need to talk to someone [or
other company] who can."

.... or however you would have handled it. I'm sure some of you have
some knowlege of the best way to deal with this kind of thing. I've
been lucky up until now. This has been like dealing with bureaucrats
except that with them, I'd have gone through the roof on them by
now.

BTW, these people lost the order for the eval boards over
Thanksgiving which amounted to another 2 week delay.

Thanks for your input,
Mike

 

[Boris Mohar]

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:54:11 GMT, Active8 <ndbbm@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Hi:

I'd like to know at what point, if any, I should have blew my top
with these sales reps.

Situation:

Snip..

1. Always have a second and possibly third source if the part is mundane.
2. Always ask for the full name, phone extension and email address.
That enforces accountability.
3. Casually mention competitors names.

--
Boris Mohar

 

[CWatters]

Active8" <ndbbm@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:1jzv9j8ftdiex.12igzac9mx8k2.dlg@40tude.net...

muRata discontinued ("de-emphasized) the resonator I needed because
they want to push their 3 terminal resonators (built in caps) and I
knew they wouldn't work. The RFIC app engr concurred.

Did you tell muRata that their product couldn't be used? I'm surprised
muRata wern't chasing the RF manufacturer for you to find out why and to
agree on an alternative. Perhaps nobody is using that RF IC in very large
volume?

You'd think, after sending me samples and eval boards, and talking
about sourcing resonators, they'd realize without being told that I
need them to get me the stinkin' resonators, otherwise I'd have
already ordered them from Digi-Key or someone.

It sounds to me like you might be relying on the distributor a bit too much.
Some distrubutors know and support their product range very well but others
cover too wide a range for them to stand any chance. Other just don't have
the right quality of staff.

In my 20+ years in the electronics industry I've met two types of people...

There are those that are made of the "right stuff", who get a real kick out
of working as a team to achieve objectives and deliver projects on time.
They think ahead and consider what impact their part of the project will
have on others. They frequently work unpaid overtime because they enjoy the
challange. They are never heard to say "it's not my job to think about
xyz..."

..... and then there are those for who everything in life seems just too much
work. It never occurs to them that their actions will have an effect on
others. They never bother themselves with the wider picture and wouldn't
think twice about sending out urgent samples by regular post just before
Christmas.

All you can do is hope the boss knows which type you are when it comes to
the annual pay review, oh and make sure you hire the right type when you
you get his job.

At what point do you say, "Look. You're jerking me around. *I* am
the customer, not you.

Unfortunately 1500 resonators isn't going to get your average supplier very
excited unless you can hint at much larger volumes to come? They cost so
little there is no profit in it for them.

 

[Harry Conover]

Active8 <ndbbm@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:<1jzv9j8ftdiex.12igzac9mx8k2.dlg@40tude.net>...

Question:

At what point do you say, "Look. You're jerking me around. *I* am
the customer, not you. If you can't keep track of what you're
working on, understand the products and related components, and
listen to what your customer needs, I need to talk to someone [or
other company] who can."

It's been my personal experience (and training) that causes me to say
that if you've put yourself in in a position requiring such a
decision, you've done something wrong already.

I hate to say this, but honestly you're coming across as still another
one of those hot shots who low balls his bid, understates his delivery
committment, then expects all of his suppliers to cut corners and
expecite his stuff just in order to save his ass.

Sorry guy, but business doesn't work that way, even if you were Donald
Trump. Well...maybe a name like Donald Trump would buy you a bit of
slack, but otherwise...

If you wish to stay in the business for any significant amount of
time, broaden your design margins so your production product will meet
its specs using components available from at least 6 different
sources. Also, find out which of these suppliers maintains an in depth
stock locally. This variety of supply sources allow you bargain on
price, plus reduce your standing inventory to the minimal amount
(normally a 2-week supply).

Unfortunately, if you based your product on the use of a particular
component offered by only one supplier and didn't stockpile these
components, then don't blame your supplier, since you screwed
yourself!

Harry C.

 

[Harry Conover]

Active8 <ndbbm@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:<1jzv9j8ftdiex.12igzac9mx8k2.dlg@40tude.net>...

Question:

At what point do you say, "Look. You're jerking me around. *I* am
the customer, not you. If you can't keep track of what you're
working on, understand the products and related components, and
listen to what your customer needs, I need to talk to someone [or
other company] who can."

It's been my personal experience (and training) that causes me to say
that if you've put yourself in in a position requiring such a
decision, you've done something wrong already.

I hate to say this, but honestly you're coming across as still another
one of those hot shots who low balls his bid, understates his delivery
committment, then expects all of his suppliers to cut corners and
expecite his stuff just in order to save his ass.

Sorry guy, but business doesn't work that way, even if you were Donald
Trump. Well...maybe a name like Donald Trump would buy you a bit of
slack, but otherwise...

If you wish to stay in the business for any significant amount of
time, broaden your design margins so your production product will meet
its specs using components available from at least 6 different
sources. Also, find out which of these suppliers maintains an in depth
stock locally. This variety of supply sources allow you bargain on
price, plus reduce your standing inventory to the minimal amount
(normally a 2-week supply).

Unfortunately, if you based your product on the use of a particular
component offered by only one supplier and didn't stockpile these
components, then don't blame your supplier, since you screwed
yourself!

Harry C.

 

[Harry Conover]

Active8 <ndbbm@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:<1jzv9j8ftdiex.12igzac9mx8k2.dlg@40tude.net>...

Question:

At what point do you say, "Look. You're jerking me around. *I* am
the customer, not you. If you can't keep track of what you're
working on, understand the products and related components, and
listen to what your customer needs, I need to talk to someone [or
other company] who can."

It's been my personal experience (and training) that causes me to say
that if you've put yourself in in a position requiring such a
decision, you've done something wrong already.

I hate to say this, but honestly you're coming across as still another
one of those hot shots who low balls his bid, understates his delivery
committment, then expects all of his suppliers to cut corners and
expecite his stuff just in order to save his ass.

Sorry guy, but business doesn't work that way, even if you were Donald
Trump. Well...maybe a name like Donald Trump would buy you a bit of
slack, but otherwise...

If you wish to stay in the business for any significant amount of
time, broaden your design margins so your production product will meet
its specs using components available from at least 6 different
sources. Also, find out which of these suppliers maintains an in depth
stock locally. This variety of supply sources allow you bargain on
price, plus reduce your standing inventory to the minimal amount
(normally a 2-week supply).

Unfortunately, if you based your product on the use of a particular
component offered by only one supplier and didn't stockpile these
components, then don't blame your supplier, since you screwed
yourself!

Harry C.

 

[David Bengtson]

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:54:11 GMT, Active8 <ndbbm@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Hi:

I'd like to know at what point, if any, I should have blew my top
with these sales reps.

Situation:

I started dealing (on the phone) with a VP of outside sales I was
refered to by the manufacturer of the IC's for which I needed
samples. He is only in the office the first 2 or 3 days of the week.
Without explanation, many of my e-mails ended up being handled by an
inside sales rep who finally filled me in on the company heirarchy,
kinda tongue in cheek.

By December, I had the samples of these RF chips. They've been
verified with (some mfg's.) XTALs and muRata ceramic resonators.
I've never had a problem getting fast action from muRata.

muRata discontinued ("de-emphasized) the resonator I needed because
they want to push their 3 terminal resonators (built in caps) and I
knew they wouldn't work. The RFIC app engr concurred.

That started another back and forth between me, the VP, and the app
engr., who didn't know about the stunt muRata pulled. Finally the VP
relayed something from the app engineer about a part from a company
they don't represent. I wasn't told about the commo with the app
engr, or the fact that they don't rep that mfg. Then the VP
disappeared again leaving me and the inside rep to figure out what
the hell he was talking about.

Finally, 3 weeks or so after finding out muRata was out of the
picture, the week before Christmas, the inside rep sent me to a
website of a resonator mfg that they *do* rep. Moving quickly to
beat the holiday, I checked the specs and options for the parts and
came up with part numbers. I e-mailed the rep back on 18 DEC with
the part numbers and specifically stated that I had X samples of
each chip and no rocks or resonators and yes, the following part
numbers meet the specs and thanks a lot.

You'd think, after sending me samples and eval boards, and talking
about sourcing resonators, they'd realize without being told that I
need them to get me the stinkin' resonators, otherwise I'd have
already ordered them from Digi-Key or someone.

I wouldn't assume that at all. If you need parts, you need to make
sure that they know how many and when you need them. That's your
responsibility, not theirs. Assuming they know what you need is a sure
path to delaying builds.

I'd be kind of unhappy with the rep firm, since they seem to be hard
to deal with. Perhaps it's time to find some other manufacturer. The
other responses on making sure you have multiple vendor's is
excellent.


Dave

 

[Michael]

Active8 wrote:

Hi:

I'd like to know at what point, if any, I should have blew my top
with these sales reps.

Situation:

I started dealing (on the phone) with a VP of outside sales I was
refered to by the manufacturer of the IC's for which I needed
samples. He is only in the office the first 2 or 3 days of the week.
Without explanation, many of my e-mails ended up being handled by an
inside sales rep who finally filled me in on the company heirarchy,
kinda tongue in cheek.

By December, I had the samples of these RF chips. They've been
verified with (some mfg's.) XTALs and muRata ceramic resonators.
I've never had a problem getting fast action from muRata.

muRata discontinued ("de-emphasized) the resonator I needed because
they want to push their 3 terminal resonators (built in caps) and I
knew they wouldn't work. The RFIC app engr concurred.

That started another back and forth between me, the VP, and the app
engr., who didn't know about the stunt muRata pulled. Finally the VP
relayed something from the app engineer about a part from a company
they don't represent. I wasn't told about the commo with the app
engr, or the fact that they don't rep that mfg. Then the VP
disappeared again leaving me and the inside rep to figure out what
the hell he was talking about.

Finally, 3 weeks or so after finding out muRata was out of the
picture, the week before Christmas, the inside rep sent me to a
website of a resonator mfg that they *do* rep. Moving quickly to
beat the holiday, I checked the specs and options for the parts and
came up with part numbers. I e-mailed the rep back on 18 DEC with
the part numbers and specifically stated that I had X samples of
each chip and no rocks or resonators and yes, the following part
numbers meet the specs and thanks a lot.

You'd think, after sending me samples and eval boards, and talking
about sourcing resonators, they'd realize without being told that I
need them to get me the stinkin' resonators, otherwise I'd have
already ordered them from Digi-Key or someone.

No answer. I didn't hassle the rep during the week of Christmas nor
the time between then and New Year's day. Then I inquired again this
week.

Three days later, I got an e-mail from the rep asking whether I
needed the parts or just prices, so I snipped and resent all the
relevant previous discussion to refresh the rep's memory. They've
only been told twice that my customer wanted to do an initial run
requiring some 1500 IC's this month. I also didn't mention the fact
that they've been jerking around for a month or so.

Now as much time as I spent dealing with this rep, which will result
in a single source for parts (that can be changed later of course) I
didn't get the impression at any point that I would need to look
elsewhere, so I can't just say "screw you" and go elsewhere without
incurring further delay.

Question:

At what point do you say, "Look. You're jerking me around. *I* am
the customer, not you. If you can't keep track of what you're
working on, understand the products and related components, and
listen to what your customer needs, I need to talk to someone [or
other company] who can."

... or however you would have handled it. I'm sure some of you have
some knowlege of the best way to deal with this kind of thing. I've
been lucky up until now. This has been like dealing with bureaucrats
except that with them, I'd have gone through the roof on them by
now.

BTW, these people lost the order for the eval boards over
Thanksgiving which amounted to another 2 week delay.

Thanks for your input,
Mike

Take names. Then ask for the names of their manager(s). Contact
managers, explaining your situation and including copies of relevant
correspondence, and cc: the "grunts" who gave you no joy. Demand action
(of the managers) as well as their follow-up, making clear that you are
ready to "walk".

All that, only if you want to continue to put up with that company.
Otherwise, just walk and don't look back.

 

[JeffM]

I'd like to know at what point, if any,
I should have blew my top with these sales reps.
Active8

What's the old saying?
"Jerk me around once, shame on you; jerk me around twice, shame on me."

What did the manufacturer say
when you called up the office of the company President and said,
"I'm tired of this $#!~.
Give me the name of a distributer in a different region."?

 

[Active8]

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 11:05:26 -0500, dbengtson@pobox.com said...

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:54:11 GMT, Active8 <ndbbm@invalid.invalid
wrote:

Hi:

I'd like to know at what point, if any, I should have blew my top
with these sales reps.

Situation:

I started dealing (on the phone) with a VP of outside sales I was
refered to by the manufacturer of the IC's for which I needed
samples. He is only in the office the first 2 or 3 days of the week.
Without explanation, many of my e-mails ended up being handled by an
inside sales rep who finally filled me in on the company heirarchy,
kinda tongue in cheek.

By December, I had the samples of these RF chips. They've been
verified with (some mfg's.) XTALs and muRata ceramic resonators.
I've never had a problem getting fast action from muRata.

muRata discontinued ("de-emphasized) the resonator I needed because
they want to push their 3 terminal resonators (built in caps) and I
knew they wouldn't work. The RFIC app engr concurred.

That started another back and forth between me, the VP, and the app
engr., who didn't know about the stunt muRata pulled. Finally the VP
relayed something from the app engineer about a part from a company
they don't represent. I wasn't told about the commo with the app
engr, or the fact that they don't rep that mfg. Then the VP
disappeared again leaving me and the inside rep to figure out what
the hell he was talking about.

Finally, 3 weeks or so after finding out muRata was out of the
picture, the week before Christmas, the inside rep sent me to a
website of a resonator mfg that they *do* rep. Moving quickly to
beat the holiday, I checked the specs and options for the parts and
came up with part numbers. I e-mailed the rep back on 18 DEC with
the part numbers and specifically stated that I had X samples of
each chip and no rocks or resonators and yes, the following part
numbers meet the specs and thanks a lot.

You'd think, after sending me samples and eval boards, and talking
about sourcing resonators, they'd realize without being told that I
need them to get me the stinkin' resonators, otherwise I'd have
already ordered them from Digi-Key or someone.


I wouldn't assume that at all. If you need parts, you need to make
sure that they know how many and when you need them. That's your
responsibility, not theirs. Assuming they know what you need is a sure
path to delaying builds.

I didn't assume that. I told them I'd need the resonators once we
finally figured out that they rep'd a mfg that made the parts. That
was settled on the 18th of Dec. I let them have their holiday slack
time and just like the eval boards were forgotten due to
Thanksgiving, everything prior to Christmas was forgotten. It's
really hard to drag emails from the inbox to a WIP folder and those
post-it notes are such a pain.

I'd be kind of unhappy with the rep firm, since they seem to be hard
to deal with. Perhaps it's time to find some other manufacturer. The
other responses on making sure you have multiple vendor's is
excellent.

Yes, it was, and I did check whether this was some part that was
going to be history soon. muRata MArketing may have had no way of
knowing that their 2 terminal resonators were recommended as
"tested and evaluated" in the spec sheet even though IIRC, it's
muRata that offers free evals to companies making RF ICs. Maybe
muRata didn't do an eval for those IC's. Maybe the IC mfg did it an
gave them a stamp of approval so to speak.

I started dealing with these people since they were referred to me
by the mfg., and I plan to send my customer a list of alternate
sources in case they have trouble with this rep. It's the least I
can do.

--
Thanks,
Mike

Dave

--
Best Regards,
Mike

 

[Active8]

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 20:08:58 GMT, NoSpam@att.net said...

Active8 wrote:

snip


Take names. Then ask for the names of their manager(s). Contact
managers, explaining your situation and including copies of relevant
correspondence, and cc: the "grunts" who gave you no joy. Demand action
(of the managers) as well as their follow-up, making clear that you are
ready to "walk".

All that, only if you want to continue to put up with that company.
Otherwise, just walk and don't look back.

Thanks. If I can get the resonators out of them, that'll finish the

prototype and I can warn my customer that they might want to talk
to a few different reps before production.

--
Best Regards,
Mike

 

[Active8]

On 9 Jan 2004 15:07:51 -0800, jeffm_@email.com said...

I'd like to know at what point, if any,
I should have blew my top with these sales reps.
Active8

What's the old saying?
"Jerk me around once, shame on you; jerk me around twice, shame on me."

What did the manufacturer say
when you called up the office of the company President and said,
"I'm tired of this $#!~.
Give me the name of a distributer in a different region."?

That's basically what I've been thinking. I'm trying to strike a
balance, I guess. I suppose the best indicator of when to get
pissed-off is being pissed-off. Compared to other reps I've dealt
with, I'd say this has been the worst experience, so far.

I was raised to expect good sevice in restaurants, etc., and
although I see people taking it up the butt and coming back for
more, I just can't do it myself. Mom told me if they don't get the
message when you leave a penny for a tip, they weren't worth the
penny.

Maybe my question should have been, "How many times do you say
please?" Maybe saying please and thank you is a sign of
weakness.

--
Best Regards,
Mike

 

[JeffM]

I did check whether this was some part that was going to be history soon.
Active8

Reminds me of the time that the head of engineering told us
to use the Mostek IC instead of the Seiko chip--BUY AMERICAN!

Before the design was finished, Mostek was sold to SGS
and the availibility of the IC was in question.

What's that they say? "No good deed goes unpunished".