Psu for valves

P

Peter Percival

Guest
I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply. What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply? Where may I find circuits? Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.
 
On 3/30/2018 1:09 PM, Peter Percival wrote:
I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply.  What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply?  Where may I find circuits?  Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.
Click to expand...
The specifications would depend on what you wanted to supply. I suggest
that you read up on the voltages used in such circuits. You could kill
yourself.
 
On 31/03/2018 12:26 PM, Tom Biasi wrote:
On 3/30/2018 1:09 PM, Peter Percival wrote:
I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply.  What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply?  Where may I find circuits?  Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.
The specifications would depend on what you wanted to supply.  I suggest
that you read up on the voltages used in such circuits. You could kill
yourself.
Click to expand...

Yeah, study up on the valves then you will know what you want. operating
values run from 1.5vdc through 800v as a very loose indication.
 
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 18:09:01 +0100, Peter Percival wrote:

I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply. What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply? Where may I find circuits? Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.
Click to expand...

Naturally? You best course of action is to move your birth-date back 100
years. Failing that, easily obtainable will be a stretch.

The voltage, current, will be determined by what it will power. Vacuum
tube supplies, if variable generally had a variable transformer on the
input to a line frequency power supply. These days you'd be designing
and building a switching supply, so I guess the next thing you should ask
yourself is if the power supply to be versatile enough for a wide range
of applications (variable voltage) or for a single fixed purpose? And
does it have to be authentic (use "valves" itself?)

To learn about tubes you may look for some vintage electronics company
and start with a kit if you can find one, or find some old schematics and
breadboard something.

good luck
 
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 18:09:01 +0100, Peter Percival
<peterxpercival@hotmail.com> wrote:

I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply. What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply? Where may I find circuits? Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.
Click to expand...

Typically? Probably around 350VDC for the plate supply, 6.3VC and/or
12.6VAC for filaments.

As for the naysayers... there are still lots of things better done
with toobz than semiconductors.

It's always puzzled me that someone hasn't created a bipolar/tube
combo part that has the best of both worlds ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Understanding is a fountain of life to one who has it,
But the instruction of fools is folly. Proverbs 16:22
 
On 31-3-2018 6:26, Tom Biasi wrote:
On 3/30/2018 1:09 PM, Peter Percival wrote:
I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply. What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply? Where may I find circuits? Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.
The specifications would depend on what you wanted to supply. I suggest
that you read up on the voltages used in such circuits. You could kill
yourself.

Tubes are fun.
Click to expand...

In my practice year(1967) the first one was a device to
show cosmic rays.
It put 20.000 volts on two plates a 1/3 inch apart,
less than 10 microseconds after a particle passed through those
plates.
The ionized trace the particle left behind showed as a flashing trail.

Next thing was an experiment control unit to print the count of five
Philips counters onto one Kienzle printer in a radiation lab at predefined
time intervals.

Both projects in tubes, working supply voltages 300 - 500 and 20.000 volts.

And I enjoyed them .

Worst accident was a set of four electrolytes exploding.
(500 V reverse connected is a bit stupid........)
 
Peter Percival wrote:
I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply.  What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply?  Where may I find circuits?  Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.
Click to expand...

Also, these:
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/double-triode-valves/1448943/ look
interesting! If I don't kill myself I'll fertle around with them too.
 
Tom Biasi wrote:
On 3/30/2018 1:09 PM, Peter Percival wrote:
I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply.  What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply?  Where may I find circuits?  Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.
The specifications would depend on what you wanted to supply.  I suggest
that you read up on the voltages used in such circuits.
Click to expand...

Variable up to 800V (looking at
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/?sra=oss&r=t&searchTerm=thermionic+valves).

You could kill
yourself.
Click to expand...

It can only add to the interest!
 
default wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 18:09:01 +0100, Peter Percival wrote:

I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply. What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply? Where may I find circuits? Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.

Naturally? You best course of action is to move your birth-date back 100
years. Failing that, easily obtainable will be a stretch.

The voltage, current, will be determined by what it will power. Vacuum
tube supplies, if variable generally had a variable transformer on the
input to a line frequency power supply. These days you'd be designing
and building a switching supply, so I guess the next thing you should ask
yourself is if the power supply to be versatile enough for a wide range
of applications (variable voltage) or for a single fixed purpose? And
Click to expand...

Variable.

> does it have to be authentic (use "valves" itself?)

Preferably.

To learn about tubes you may look for some vintage electronics company
and start with a kit if you can find one, or find some old schematics and
breadboard something.

good luck
Click to expand...
 
On 2018-03-31, Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> wrote:
Peter Percival wrote:
I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply.  What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply?  Where may I find circuits?  Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.

Also, these:
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/double-triode-valves/1448943/ look
interesting! If I don't kill myself I'll fertle around with them too.
Click to expand...

by getting the version facing downwards you save 3.29 pounds :)
but the upwards facing one is in stock. 1449016 :)

--
This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software
 
On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 20:17:55 +0100, Peter Percival wrote:

default wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 18:09:01 +0100, Peter Percival wrote:

I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply. What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply? Where may I find circuits? Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.

Naturally? You best course of action is to move your birth-date back
100 years. Failing that, easily obtainable will be a stretch.

The voltage, current, will be determined by what it will power. Vacuum
tube supplies, if variable generally had a variable transformer on the
input to a line frequency power supply. These days you'd be designing
and building a switching supply, so I guess the next thing you should
ask yourself is if the power supply to be versatile enough for a wide
range of applications (variable voltage) or for a single fixed purpose?
And

Variable.

does it have to be authentic (use "valves" itself?)

Preferably.
Click to expand...
Then you might start with a big honking center-tapped high voltage
300-0-300 volt 1 amp transformer driven with a suitable variable
transformer, and a separate well insulated step down transformer working
at a fixed voltage of 5 volts 3 amps, driving a 5U4 vacuum tube rectifier.

The 5U4 is still in good supply, but all that stuff is going to cost
you. And even back in the day the first thing to go was the vacuum
rectifier replaced with a selenium or silicon diode rectifier.

But I think you'd be better off starting with an end project (or
projects) so you know what the power supply should supply (V and I).

Then breadboard something vacuum tubish. There are plenty of schematics
for the hobbyist in old magazines, old amateur radio books, and on line.
Wood works well if it doesn't have to look good. Learn then spend more
on chassis and chassis punches and metal working equipment.
To learn about tubes you may look for some vintage electronics company
and start with a kit if you can find one, or find some old schematics
and breadboard something.

good luck
Click to expand...
 
On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 10:58:02 AM UTC-4, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 18:09:01 +0100, Peter Percival
peterxpercival@hotmail.com> wrote:

I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply. What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply? Where may I find circuits? Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.

Typically? Probably around 350VDC for the plate supply, 6.3VC and/or
12.6VAC for filaments.

As for the naysayers... there are still lots of things better done
with toobz than semiconductors.

It's always puzzled me that someone hasn't created a bipolar/tube
combo part that has the best of both worlds ;-)
Click to expand...

Tubes are expensive. (and fragile)
How many $0.05 transistors does it take to replace a $50 tube?

Beside PMT's are there any tubes being made these days?
(They even stopped making those two terminal light emitting tubes,
incandescent bulbs :^)

George H.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Understanding is a fountain of life to one who has it,
But the instruction of fools is folly. Proverbs 16:22
Click to expand...
 
On Mon, 2 Apr 2018 07:33:35 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 10:58:02 AM UTC-4, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 18:09:01 +0100, Peter Percival
peterxpercival@hotmail.com> wrote:

I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply. What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply? Where may I find circuits? Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.

Typically? Probably around 350VDC for the plate supply, 6.3VC and/or
12.6VAC for filaments.

As for the naysayers... there are still lots of things better done
with toobz than semiconductors.

It's always puzzled me that someone hasn't created a bipolar/tube
combo part that has the best of both worlds ;-)

Tubes are expensive. (and fragile)
How many $0.05 transistors does it take to replace a $50 tube?

Beside PMT's are there any tubes being made these days?
(They even stopped making those two terminal light emitting tubes,
incandescent bulbs :^)

George H.

[snip SIG left by crap newsreader software]
Click to expand...

How many hoops do you have to jump thru to make an amplifier that
outputs 1000V P-P?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Understanding is a fountain of life to one who has it,
But the instruction of fools is folly. Proverbs 16:22
 
On 2-4-2018 16:33, George Herold wrote:
On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 10:58:02 AM UTC-4, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 18:09:01 +0100, Peter Percival
peterxpercival@hotmail.com> wrote:

I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply. What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply? Where may I find circuits? Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.

Typically? Probably around 350VDC for the plate supply, 6.3VC and/or
12.6VAC for filaments.

As for the naysayers... there are still lots of things better done
with toobz than semiconductors.

It's always puzzled me that someone hasn't created a bipolar/tube
combo part that has the best of both worlds ;-)

Tubes are expensive. (and fragile)
How many $0.05 transistors does it take to replace a $50 tube?

Beside PMT's are there any tubes being made these days?
(They even stopped making those two terminal light emitting tubes,
incandescent bulbs :^)

George H.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Understanding is a fountain of life to one who has it,
But the instruction of fools is folly. Proverbs 16:22
Click to expand...
I have never blown a tube.
They are rather sturdy, and when an anode starts glowing,
there is plenty of time to kill the power.
However, I have blown a lot of AF118 transistors, when they could hardly
deliver
the power and cuirrent and slew rate demanded by a certain aplication......
Oh, and they were very expensive at the time.
 
On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 12:10:15 PM UTC-4, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Apr 2018 07:33:35 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 10:58:02 AM UTC-4, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 18:09:01 +0100, Peter Percival
peterxpercival@hotmail.com> wrote:

I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply. What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply? Where may I find circuits? Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.

Typically? Probably around 350VDC for the plate supply, 6.3VC and/or
12.6VAC for filaments.

As for the naysayers... there are still lots of things better done
with toobz than semiconductors.

It's always puzzled me that someone hasn't created a bipolar/tube
combo part that has the best of both worlds ;-)

Tubes are expensive. (and fragile)
How many $0.05 transistors does it take to replace a $50 tube?

Beside PMT's are there any tubes being made these days?
(They even stopped making those two terminal light emitting tubes,
incandescent bulbs :^)

George H.

[snip SIG left by crap newsreader software]

How many hoops do you have to jump thru to make an amplifier that
outputs 1000V P-P?
Click to expand...
Sure some niche applications. How many 1kV amps have you made in your life?
(I've done zero. I guess I'd start with a 100V opamp and a 1:10
transformer, but then 'an opamp' is the hammer I hit all nails with. :^)

Hey I do have a ~200 Vp-p oscillator that runs a Rubidium lamp.
(It's probably less that 200V once the lamp warms up and the coil
get loaded down by the Rb vapor.)

There was a monstrous (~6 foot) klystron that pulsed the linear
accelerator at the Vanderbilt FEL. High power/ voltage stuff is
cool and scary.

George H.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Understanding is a fountain of life to one who has it,
But the instruction of fools is folly. Proverbs 16:22
Click to expand...
 
On 03/31/2018 10:57 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 18:09:01 +0100, Peter Percival
peterxpercival@hotmail.com> wrote:

I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply. What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply? Where may I find circuits? Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.

Typically? Probably around 350VDC for the plate supply, 6.3VC and/or
12.6VAC for filaments.

As for the naysayers... there are still lots of things better done
with toobz than semiconductors.

It's always puzzled me that someone hasn't created a bipolar/tube
combo part that has the best of both worlds ;-)

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...

Tubes can get you to places in voltage/current/capacitance space that no
semiconductor can touch. Back in about 1990, I used an 813 transmitting
tube to run the grid in an ion drift experiment, complete with a B
battery. ;)

Haven't used one since, except in gizmos others designed.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
https://hobbs-eo.com
 
On Mon, 2 Apr 2018 17:51:49 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 03/31/2018 10:57 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 18:09:01 +0100, Peter Percival
peterxpercival@hotmail.com> wrote:

I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply. What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply? Where may I find circuits? Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.

Typically? Probably around 350VDC for the plate supply, 6.3VC and/or
12.6VAC for filaments.

As for the naysayers... there are still lots of things better done
with toobz than semiconductors.

It's always puzzled me that someone hasn't created a bipolar/tube
combo part that has the best of both worlds ;-)

...Jim Thompson


Tubes can get you to places in voltage/current/capacitance space that no
semiconductor can touch. Back in about 1990, I used an 813 transmitting
tube to run the grid in an ion drift experiment, complete with a B
battery. ;)

Haven't used one since, except in gizmos others designed.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
Click to expand...

I've always been amused by the thought of a bipolar current mirror
_under_ the cathode of a tube (with grounded-grid)... I'll have to
take some time and analyze that configuration... probably will need
some kind of protective mechanism should the current mirror be "off".

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Understanding is a fountain of life to one who has it,
But the instruction of fools is folly. Proverbs 16:22
 
On 2018-04-02, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

Tubes are expensive. (and fragile)
How many $0.05 transistors does it take to replace a $50 tube?

Beside PMT's are there any tubes being made these days?
Click to expand...

magentrons.

Also RS-online seems to have about 12 different types of amplifier tube
in stock.

--
This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software
 
On 04/02/2018 07:06 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 2 Apr 2018 17:51:49 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

On 03/31/2018 10:57 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 18:09:01 +0100, Peter Percival
peterxpercival@hotmail.com> wrote:

I wish to experiment with valves (or tubes, if you prefer) and I shall
begin by building a power supply. What voltages (at what currents)
should it supply? Where may I find circuits? Naturally, the devices
used should be easily obtainable.

Typically? Probably around 350VDC for the plate supply, 6.3VC and/or
12.6VAC for filaments.

As for the naysayers... there are still lots of things better done
with toobz than semiconductors.

It's always puzzled me that someone hasn't created a bipolar/tube
combo part that has the best of both worlds ;-)

...Jim Thompson


Tubes can get you to places in voltage/current/capacitance space that no
semiconductor can touch. Back in about 1990, I used an 813 transmitting
tube to run the grid in an ion drift experiment, complete with a B
battery. ;)

Haven't used one since, except in gizmos others designed.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I've always been amused by the thought of a bipolar current mirror
_under_ the cathode of a tube (with grounded-grid)... I'll have to
take some time and analyze that configuration... probably will need
some kind of protective mechanism should the current mirror be "off".

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...

That's commonly done in pulsed CO2 lasers--see this patent that came up
in Waymo v. Uber:
<https://electrooptical.net/www/sed/US4648093Sasnett.pdf>

Sasnett has a fun trick that partly anticipated the last remaining Waymo
patent.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs



--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
https://hobbs-eo.com
 
Jim Thompson wrote:
As for the naysayers... there are still lots of things better done
with toobz than semiconductors.

It's always puzzled me that someone hasn't created a bipolar/tube
combo part that has the best of both worlds ;-)

...Jim Thompson


I've always been amused by the thought of a bipolar current mirror
_under_ the cathode of a tube (with grounded-grid)... I'll have to
take some time and analyze that configuration... probably will need
some kind of protective mechanism should the current mirror be "off".
Click to expand...

Does it have to be integrated? You can always assemble the separate
parts.
 
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