Protel 2004

F

Fred

Guest
Hi,

I'm using Protel99SE and have been apprroached by Altium with an upgrade
path to Protel 2004. HAs anyone got 2004 that could give a heads up on
how it compares to 99SE?

Fred S



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Hi Fred,

Fred <fps@pmr-iowa.com> wrote in
news:1126113470_15923@spool6-east.superfeed.net:

Hi,

I'm using Protel99SE and have been apprroached by Altium with an
upgrade path to Protel 2004. HAs anyone got 2004 that could give
a heads up on how it compares to 99SE?
Click to expand...
Hm, seems to be the same around the world ... we had this first some
months ago, and since then, every three-four weeks ... ;-)

For the comparison have a look at their webpage (www.protel.com) and
look for some documents which list a number of features of DXP2004
which are not available in 99SE. They show this as a kind of "field
test" with their own engineers.
I received the printed version of this but at the moment can't
remember the document's title.

For a "hands-on" comparison just tell them to send you the demo CD
install it and work with it! But MAKE A BACKUP of all your 99SE
design files because AFAIK the file format has changed completely!

Regards
Michael
 
Michael Bohlender wrote:

Hi Fred,

Fred <fps@pmr-iowa.com> wrote in
news:1126113470_15923@spool6-east.superfeed.net:


Hi,

I'm using Protel99SE and have been apprroached by Altium with an
upgrade path to Protel 2004. HAs anyone got 2004 that could give
a heads up on how it compares to 99SE?



Hm, seems to be the same around the world ... we had this first some
months ago, and since then, every three-four weeks ... ;-)

For the comparison have a look at their webpage (www.protel.com) and
look for some documents which list a number of features of DXP2004
which are not available in 99SE. They show this as a kind of "field
test" with their own engineers.
I received the printed version of this but at the moment can't
remember the document's title.

For a "hands-on" comparison just tell them to send you the demo CD
install it and work with it! But MAKE A BACKUP of all your 99SE
design files because AFAIK the file format has changed completely!

Regards
Michael
Hi Michael,
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response and I certainly will do these things before
upgrading. I guess what I'm looking for is current users of 2004
reaction to the change from 99SE.

I remember when Protel 98 first came out. It was so full of bugs that
the user base was driven nuts. The program would lock up capriously and
a lot of work could be (and was)lost. It was very frustrating. As if
this wasn't enough, when 99 came out, it was a similar situation. The
user interface was also quite different and was alot of work to learn.
This coupled with the 99 bugs was a platefull. 99SE has been a good
stable performer but it was quite a while before it was available.

What I'm saying is I don't trust Altium to deliver a satisfactory
product until some time after it's initial introduction; I'm gun-shy.
I'm looking for how previous users of 99SE felt about learning yet
another user-interface, how long it took to learn, how stable it is and
was it worth the effort.

Thanks,

Fred




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I think you just described Protel 2004 :)
But they do seem to have got alot of bugs out.. the new features are nice
too.. like padstack editor which allows different sizes on different
internal layers. Also the ERC seems to be working now.. not that you would
have noticed that some schematic ERC's aren't getting flagged even tho, if
you look at them, you will realise they are turned on. They are all
non-critical ERC warnings that affect the schematic sheet but not the
overall design.

From my own point of view.. if 99SE is good for what you do.. there is very
little reason to upgrade unless you have money burning a hole in your pocket
which you just have to spend. I haven't seen a 'wow' feature that is a must
have ... for example.. 99SE could pour 4 polygons in the time Protel 3.0
could pour one. Since most of the new features in Protel I've had to work
around for years... there seems little point in doing it any other way right
now.

There is a footnote that some parts of Protel 2004 benefit from dual
processors... but its only some.. and probably small some of a function you
don't use often (e.g. FPGAs)

Simon


"Fred" <fps@pmr-iowa.com> wrote in message
news:1126191596_21411@spool6-east.superfeed.net...
Michael Bohlender wrote:

Hi Fred,

Fred <fps@pmr-iowa.com> wrote in
news:1126113470_15923@spool6-east.superfeed.net:


Hi,

I'm using Protel99SE and have been apprroached by Altium with an
upgrade path to Protel 2004. HAs anyone got 2004 that could give
a heads up on how it compares to 99SE?



Hm, seems to be the same around the world ... we had this first some
months ago, and since then, every three-four weeks ... ;-)

For the comparison have a look at their webpage (www.protel.com) and
look for some documents which list a number of features of DXP2004
which are not available in 99SE. They show this as a kind of "field
test" with their own engineers.
I received the printed version of this but at the moment can't
remember the document's title.

For a "hands-on" comparison just tell them to send you the demo CD
install it and work with it! But MAKE A BACKUP of all your 99SE
design files because AFAIK the file format has changed completely!

Regards
Michael
Hi Michael,

Thanks for the response and I certainly will do these things before
upgrading. I guess what I'm looking for is current users of 2004
reaction to the change from 99SE.

I remember when Protel 98 first came out. It was so full of bugs that
the user base was driven nuts. The program would lock up capriously and
a lot of work could be (and was)lost. It was very frustrating. As if
this wasn't enough, when 99 came out, it was a similar situation. The
user interface was also quite different and was alot of work to learn.
This coupled with the 99 bugs was a platefull. 99SE has been a good
stable performer but it was quite a while before it was available.

What I'm saying is I don't trust Altium to deliver a satisfactory
product until some time after it's initial introduction; I'm gun-shy.
I'm looking for how previous users of 99SE felt about learning yet
another user-interface, how long it took to learn, how stable it is and
was it worth the effort.

Thanks,

Fred




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----
Click to expand...
 
Hello,

I did the jump full of hope, because there is a converter from PROTEL 99 SE
to PROTEL 2004 XP, but not everithing was OK, the PCB has to been
resynchronised with schematics. Altium has upgraded the converter, and I
have not tried the last released (SP4).
The new annoying thing is that there was not database with all the
documents, (changed with service PACK 4, you can do an archive with your
project).
You have a separate file with each document !
For the new components, the library editor is globally the same with height
of the component for placement with height constraint on the board.
You can do integrated library schematic component with its footprint (you
have some furnished).
Compatibilty is always limited to Autocad version 14. (SP4 ?)
It take more place and more power but doesn't use processeur with
Hyperthreading (SP4 ?) when I route with my Pentium 4 / 3.2 Ghz it uses only
50% of the processor power (Dos = Windows XP pro).
When routing there is a firts pass of analysing the board which is more
longer than 99SE and after it start routing, but at first it is slower than
99SE even with a partially routed board.

Good things :
You can open 99SE library and 2004 XP library at the same time. You can save
at the old 99SE Format (Yes File format has changed, why ?).
It is more stable then 99SE (with service pack 3) I have just installed SP4
so I could not speak about SP4.
For drawing PCB there was a bug in circular component so you need to use
software arc in generating Gerber files otherwise gerber files was wrong and
PCB looks OK. Bug fixed with SP4 ?
The router doesn't route easily all CMS fine pitch if you say one pin inner
and one pin outer and two pin close together should be routed the same
direction (outer the component by example), but you can add more passes the
router. (Fixed in SP4 ?).
You can add/edit easily multiple component properties, but I h'vent checked
the possibity of linking to a database.
You can download new components library.

I only did 2 and 4 layers board with splitted planes at this time and it
take some time to take the full power from PROTEL XP 2004, well if you are
satisfied with 99SE and don't want to download new library components from
Protel.

François knoff
To answer replace <family name> with my name.

Email :fn.<family name>@neuf.fr





"Fred" <fps@pmr-iowa.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1126191596_21411@spool6-east.superfeed.net...
Michael Bohlender wrote:

Hi Fred,

Fred <fps@pmr-iowa.com> wrote in
news:1126113470_15923@spool6-east.superfeed.net:
Hi,

I'm using Protel99SE and have been apprroached by Altium with an
upgrade path to Protel 2004. HAs anyone got 2004 that could give
a heads up on how it compares to 99SE?



Hm, seems to be the same around the world ... we had this first some
months ago, and since then, every three-four weeks ... ;-)

For the comparison have a look at their webpage (www.protel.com) and
look for some documents which list a number of features of DXP2004
which are not available in 99SE. They show this as a kind of "field
test" with their own engineers.
I received the printed version of this but at the moment can't
remember the document's title.

For a "hands-on" comparison just tell them to send you the demo CD
install it and work with it! But MAKE A BACKUP of all your 99SE
design files because AFAIK the file format has changed completely!

Regards
Michael
Hi Michael,

Thanks for the response and I certainly will do these things before
upgrading. I guess what I'm looking for is current users of 2004 reaction
to the change from 99SE.

I remember when Protel 98 first came out. It was so full of bugs that the
user base was driven nuts. The program would lock up capriously and a lot
of work could be (and was)lost. It was very frustrating. As if this wasn't
enough, when 99 came out, it was a similar situation. The user interface
was also quite different and was alot of work to learn. This coupled with
the 99 bugs was a platefull. 99SE has been a good stable performer but it
was quite a while before it was available.

What I'm saying is I don't trust Altium to deliver a satisfactory product
until some time after it's initial introduction; I'm gun-shy. I'm looking
for how previous users of 99SE felt about learning yet another
user-interface, how long it took to learn, how stable it is and was it
worth the effort.

Thanks,

Fred




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----
Click to expand...
 
The database disappeared with the first DXP release years ago
(2002?), not just at AD2004 SP4. It does support some form of
imports and exports at greater than ACAD ver. 14, heard what it
was but don't recall. Statements from tech support indicate they
are targeting good ACAD import/export operation right up to the
more recent releases (maybe a year or two behind since it is
difficult to keep absolutely current). Some portions of the more
intensive operations are hyper-threading, eventually they plan to
re-write more to use hyper-threading. You can actually compile
full 3D components, not just height, but it is not 100% fluid
passing off to various 3D tools. Also within the component
library you can now define your component outline and boundaries,
not just default to the silkscreen and all other features from
all layers in an all encompassing box.

So I don't know where Francios gets his info but a lot of it is
highly suspect. The Altium EDA forum is quite active and has an
extensive archive, if you are really interested Altium should let
you join for researching your inquiries. Supposedly from what I
have read, it will tax most any machine for speed on some
operations, it is reported to not be as fast as P99SE but then it
also does a lot more (too much in my opinion).

I have AD2004 at work but we have not yet switched, mostly
because of lack of time and resources to manage the switch and
retrain all the engineers. I monitor the AD forum continuously
and that is where my info above comes from.
--
Sincerely,
Brad Velander

"F KNOFF" <fn.knoff@neuf.fr> wrote in message
news:dg9030$14a$1@aphrodite.grec.isp.9tel.net...
Hello,

I did the jump full of hope, because there is a converter from
PROTEL 99 SE
to PROTEL 2004 XP, but not everithing was OK, the PCB has to
been
resynchronised with schematics. Altium has upgraded the
converter, and I
have not tried the last released (SP4).
The new annoying thing is that there was not database with all
the
documents, (changed with service PACK 4, you can do an archive
with your
project).
You have a separate file with each document !
For the new components, the library editor is globally the same
with height
of the component for placement with height constraint on the
board.
You can do integrated library schematic component with its
footprint (you
have some furnished).
Compatibilty is always limited to Autocad version 14. (SP4 ?)
It take more place and more power but doesn't use processeur
with
Hyperthreading (SP4 ?) when I route with my Pentium 4 / 3.2 Ghz
it uses only
50% of the processor power (Dos = Windows XP pro).
When routing there is a firts pass of analysing the board which
is more
longer than 99SE and after it start routing, but at first it is
slower than
99SE even with a partially routed board.

Good things :
You can open 99SE library and 2004 XP library at the same time.
You can save
at the old 99SE Format (Yes File format has changed, why ?).
It is more stable then 99SE (with service pack 3) I have just
installed SP4
so I could not speak about SP4.
For drawing PCB there was a bug in circular component so you
need to use
software arc in generating Gerber files otherwise gerber files
was wrong and
PCB looks OK. Bug fixed with SP4 ?
The router doesn't route easily all CMS fine pitch if you say
one pin inner
and one pin outer and two pin close together should be routed
the same
direction (outer the component by example), but you can add
more passes the
router. (Fixed in SP4 ?).
You can add/edit easily multiple component properties, but I
h'vent checked
the possibity of linking to a database.
You can download new components library.

I only did 2 and 4 layers board with splitted planes at this
time and it
take some time to take the full power from PROTEL XP 2004, well
if you are
satisfied with 99SE and don't want to download new library
components from
Protel.

François knoff
To answer replace <family name> with my name.

Email :fn.<family name>@neuf.fr
Click to expand...
 
Hello,

Sorry, you misunderstand me, I mean to say that jump from 99SE to 2004 XP
you don't have the same format with one database will all the documents.
You have a lot of individual documents.
I won't speak about 2002 release because I never used it.

Some of changes with SP4 is that you can do a zipped archive of your projet,
but I have to test it more because I have not succeded in making a full
archive of a projet (some schematics are missing) but there are some option
I have not tested in making the archive process.

You can also generate directly PDF document (File menu) very interesting for
sending a PDF document where every component and pins could be selected.
No more confusing with designator and footprint for the compagny which put
the components on the board when you send the .PDF of a PCB generated with
this function. Not every company could treat the pick and place file
generated by Protel.

Well you said that you can export file format more recent than AUTOCAD 14
format .DWG or .DXF so tell me exactly the key you press or where you click
with the mouse.
Because when I want to export, even with service pack 4 installed, ( I have
just installed it today), I could NOT export to Autocad 2000 format (.DWG or
..DXF). I'm limited to AUTOCAD 14 format .

I you can please tell me exectly how to proceed.

To modify 3D shape and color of components please tell me exactly the
key/mouse click you press because I don't know how to do that with Protel
2004 DXP.

The Hyperthreading is not used even with service pack 4; I tried it today.


You said that :

"> So I don't know where Francios gets his info but a lot of it is highly
suspect."

I will answer CLEARLY : I'm a user of Protel 2004 DXP and before I was using
Protel 99 SE.
All the infos came from me and my experience of the two version of this
products, when I did the jump one year ago.
I've exposed the problems and some of the avantage that I had and someby
doing the jump may have.
For a description of the new options of DXP the Altium site is well done but
the experience is a valuable thing.

Who is suspect ?
Somebody hearing something and repeating it of somebody who really use the
product and really knows its limits ?

And you Brad Velander who are you ?
What tools do you use now ?
Which board do you design (size, class, layers, Analog, Digital, FPGA) ?
What type of products Segment / Market do you design for ?
How many cards do you design by year ?

I really want to know...

Sorry, but I don't spend time to read Altium forum normally, if I have some
requests I call the Altium hotline which is excellent in Europe.

But now with a broken leg, I have more time to read the tutorials and
read/write in forum .

Faithfully.

François KNOFF

To answer replace <family name> with my name.

Email :fn.<family name>@neuf.fr



"Brad Velander" <SpamThis@nowhere.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
jm5We.199110$Hk.164571@pd7tw1no...
The database disappeared with the first DXP release years ago
(2002?), not just at AD2004 SP4. It does support some form of
imports and exports at greater than ACAD ver. 14, heard what it
was but don't recall. Statements from tech support indicate they
are targeting good ACAD import/export operation right up to the
more recent releases (maybe a year or two behind since it is
difficult to keep absolutely current). Some portions of the more
intensive operations are hyper-threading, eventually they plan to
re-write more to use hyper-threading. You can actually compile
full 3D components, not just height, but it is not 100% fluid
passing off to various 3D tools. Also within the component
library you can now define your component outline and boundaries,
not just default to the silkscreen and all other features from
all layers in an all encompassing box.

So I don't know where Francios gets his info but a lot of it is
highly suspect. The Altium EDA forum is quite active and has an
extensive archive, if you are really interested Altium should let
you join for researching your inquiries. Supposedly from what I
have read, it will tax most any machine for speed on some
operations, it is reported to not be as fast as P99SE but then it
also does a lot more (too much in my opinion).

I have AD2004 at work but we have not yet switched, mostly
because of lack of time and resources to manage the switch and
retrain all the engineers. I monitor the AD forum continuously
and that is where my info above comes from.
--
Sincerely,
Brad Velander

"F KNOFF" <fn.knoff@neuf.fr> wrote in message
news:dg9030$14a$1@aphrodite.grec.isp.9tel.net...
Hello,

I did the jump full of hope, because there is a converter from
PROTEL 99 SE
to PROTEL 2004 XP, but not everithing was OK, the PCB has to
been
resynchronised with schematics. Altium has upgraded the
converter, and I
have not tried the last released (SP4).
The new annoying thing is that there was not database with all
the
documents, (changed with service PACK 4, you can do an archive
with your
project).
You have a separate file with each document !
For the new components, the library editor is globally the same
with height
of the component for placement with height constraint on the
board.
You can do integrated library schematic component with its
footprint (you
have some furnished).
Compatibilty is always limited to Autocad version 14. (SP4 ?)
It take more place and more power but doesn't use processeur
with
Hyperthreading (SP4 ?) when I route with my Pentium 4 / 3.2 Ghz
it uses only
50% of the processor power (Dos = Windows XP pro).
When routing there is a firts pass of analysing the board which
is more
longer than 99SE and after it start routing, but at first it is
slower than
99SE even with a partially routed board.

Good things :
You can open 99SE library and 2004 XP library at the same time.
You can save
at the old 99SE Format (Yes File format has changed, why ?).
It is more stable then 99SE (with service pack 3) I have just
installed SP4
so I could not speak about SP4.
For drawing PCB there was a bug in circular component so you
need to use
software arc in generating Gerber files otherwise gerber files
was wrong and
PCB looks OK. Bug fixed with SP4 ?
The router doesn't route easily all CMS fine pitch if you say
one pin inner
and one pin outer and two pin close together should be routed
the same
direction (outer the component by example), but you can add
more passes the
router. (Fixed in SP4 ?).
You can add/edit easily multiple component properties, but I
h'vent checked
the possibity of linking to a database.
You can download new components library.

I only did 2 and 4 layers board with splitted planes at this
time and it
take some time to take the full power from PROTEL XP 2004, well
if you are
satisfied with 99SE and don't want to download new library
components from
Protel.

François knoff
To answer replace <family name> with my name.

Email :fn.<family name>@neuf.fr
Click to expand...
 
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