Problems with DPLLing

MNQ · Jun 3, 2004

Hi All

I'm trying to write some code to synchronise my local clock with some
incoming data. At the moment when the receiver sees a specific bit pattern,
it makes pattern go to logic 1 for one clock period. This resets my clock
and adds a small delay to my 2MHz clock. If I use this method I effectively
loose a clock cycle which I cannot afford. I want to reset my clock on the
rising edge of pattern, but when I use the code

If pattern='1' and pattern'event then clock_divide<="00010" ;

I get a bad synchronous error when I synthesize

Am I correct in thinking that this is a digital phase locked loop?

Can anyone suggest a way of doing this as I have no idea at the moment and
time is slipping by.

Thanks for any help

clk = 65.536MHz
clock_2MHz should be 2.048MHz
CPLD is XC2C384

clock_divider : PROCESS (clk, pattern)
BEGIN
IF pattern='1' THEN clock_divide <= "00010";
ELSIF clk='1' AND clk'event THEN
clock_divide <= clock_divide - 1;
END IF;
END PROCESS clock_divider;

clock_2MHz <= clock_divide(4);

--
Mr Naveed Qayyum

www.mnq.org.uk

Peter Hermansson · Jun 3, 2004

"MNQ" <corlioni1976REMOVE@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:<c9mr9a$5tv$1@rdel.co.uk>...

I want to reset my clock on the rising edge of pattern, but when I use the code If pattern='1' and pattern'event then clock_divide<="00010" ;
I get a bad synchronous error when I synthesize

Hi,

Reset inputs on flipflops in FPGAs are level sensitive. You cant reset
them on the edge. Use synchronous clear to avoid all trouble connected
with asynchronous design.

/Peter

MNQ · Jun 3, 2004

Thanks for the advise but now I get the following

ERROR:Xst:1534 - Sequential logic for node <clock_divide> appears to be
controlled by multiple clocks.
ERROR:Xst:739 - Failed to synthesize logic for signal <clock_divide>.
ERROR:Xst:1431 - Failed to synthesize unit <tranceiver>.

I changed the code to that shown below.

Do you know what I am doing wrong?

Thanks

clock_divider : PROCESS (clk, pattern)
BEGIN
IF clk='1' AND clk'event THEN
IF pattern'event THEN
clock_divide <= "00000";
else
clock_divide <= clock_divide - 1;
end if;
END IF;
END PROCESS clock_divider;

--
Mr Naveed Qayyum

www.mnq.org.uk
"Peter Hermansson" <peter.hermansson@sts.saab.se> wrote in message
news:4fc631bb.0406030540.65edafb2@posting.google.com...

"MNQ" <corlioni1976REMOVE@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<c9mr9a$5tv$1@rdel.co.uk>...
I want to reset my clock on the rising edge of pattern, but when I use
the code If pattern='1' and pattern'event then clock_divide<="00010" ;
I get a bad synchronous error when I synthesize

Hi,

Reset inputs on flipflops in FPGAs are level sensitive. You cant reset
them on the edge. Use synchronous clear to avoid all trouble connected
with asynchronous design.

/Peter

Ralfe Cookson · Jun 3, 2004

"MNQ" <corlioni1976REMOVE@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:<c9ne23$qb5$1@rdel.co.uk>...

Thanks for the advise but now I get the following

ERROR:Xst:1534 - Sequential logic for node <clock_divide> appears to be
controlled by multiple clocks.
ERROR:Xst:739 - Failed to synthesize logic for signal <clock_divide>.
ERROR:Xst:1431 - Failed to synthesize unit <tranceiver>.

I changed the code to that shown below.

Do you know what I am doing wrong?

Thanks

clock_divider : PROCESS (clk, pattern)
BEGIN
IF clk='1' AND clk'event THEN
IF pattern'event THEN
clock_divide <= "00000";
else
clock_divide <= clock_divide - 1;
end if;
END IF;
END PROCESS clock_divider;

--
Mr Naveed Qayyum

Unless your CPLD allows multiple clock inputs for CLB flip flops, this
will not work. Your flip flop has 2 clocks: clk and pattern, because
you are using an event on either to change the flip flop. Furthermore
any change in pattern (0 -> 1 or 1 -> 0) will be seen as a clock
event, since you did not specify pattern = '1' or pattern = '0'.

The code below would work better, assuming that clk is continuous. You
can adjust the preset value of clock_divide to something other than
"00000" to change the phase of the 2MHz clock. Note that clock_divide
should also be in the sensitivity list.

clock_divider : PROCESS (clk, pattern, clock_divide)
BEGIN
IF clk='1' AND clk'event THEN
IF pattern = '1' THEN
clock_divide <= "00000";
else
clock_divide <= clock_divide - 1;
end if;
END IF;
END PROCESS clock_divider;

However in your original post you said somehting about that when
pattern = 1 it also resets your clock, i.e. clk -> 0. If this is so,
then you are in bad shape as the above code will never work, since it
requires clk = '1' and pattern = '1' at the same time. It seems like a
bad design to me.

Peter Hermansson · Jun 4, 2004

ralfe.cookson@trw.com (Ralfe Cookson) wrote in message news:<6085b684.0406031513.10ff83c@posting.google.com>...

"MNQ" <corlioni1976REMOVE@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:<c9ne23$qb5$1@rdel.co.uk>...
Note that clock_divide
should also be in the sensitivity list.

clock_divider : PROCESS (clk, pattern, clock_divide)
BEGIN
IF clk='1' AND clk'event THEN
IF pattern = '1' THEN
clock_divide <= "00000";
else
clock_divide <= clock_divide - 1;
end if;
END IF;
END PROCESS clock_divider;

I dont agree that pattern and clock_divide shall be in the sensitivity
list.
The generated hardware is only activated on rising edges on the clk
signal, so clk shall be the only signal in the sensitivity list.

/Peter

Ralfe Cookson · Jun 4, 2004

peter.hermansson@sts.saab.se (Peter Hermansson) wrote in message news:<4fc631bb.0406032318.6ffeca0@posting.google.com>...

ralfe.cookson@trw.com (Ralfe Cookson) wrote in message news:<6085b684.0406031513.10ff83c@posting.google.com>...
"MNQ" <corlioni1976REMOVE@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:<c9ne23$qb5$1@rdel.co.uk>...
Note that clock_divide
should also be in the sensitivity list.

clock_divider : PROCESS (clk, pattern, clock_divide)
BEGIN
IF clk='1' AND clk'event THEN
IF pattern = '1' THEN
clock_divide <= "00000";
else
clock_divide <= clock_divide - 1;
end if;
END IF;
END PROCESS clock_divider;

I dont agree that pattern and clock_divide shall be in the sensitivity
list.
The generated hardware is only activated on rising edges on the clk
signal, so clk shall be the only signal in the sensitivity list.

/Peter

I agree with your opinion and so do most text books I have read. Flips
flops do not change state on data or enable transitions only. They
require a clock.

However it seems the tool designers have a different opinion. All the
synthesis tools that I have used do not like any signal within a
process that appears on the right hand side of an assignment statement
to be left out of the sensitivity list. Otherwise they issue an
"incomplete sensitivity" list warning.

The tools seem to know what was intended, so they synthesize the
design properly anyway, but they also issue the warning. This is fine
for small designs, but when synthesizing a large design, I do not want
to wade thru hundreds of these "bogus" warnings when I am only
interested in "real" warnings or errors that should be corrected.
Therefore to avoid this I always try to have complete sensitivity
lists.

Tim Hubberstey · Jun 4, 2004

Ralfe Cookson wrote:

peter.hermansson@sts.saab.se (Peter Hermansson) wrote in message news:<4fc631bb.0406032318.6ffeca0@posting.google.com>...

ralfe.cookson@trw.com (Ralfe Cookson) wrote in message news:<6085b684.0406031513.10ff83c@posting.google.com>...

"MNQ" <corlioni1976REMOVE@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:<c9ne23$qb5$1@rdel.co.uk>...
Note that clock_divide
should also be in the sensitivity list.

clock_divider : PROCESS (clk, pattern, clock_divide)
BEGIN
IF clk='1' AND clk'event THEN
IF pattern = '1' THEN
clock_divide <= "00000";
else
clock_divide <= clock_divide - 1;
end if;
END IF;
END PROCESS clock_divider;

I dont agree that pattern and clock_divide shall be in the sensitivity
list.
The generated hardware is only activated on rising edges on the clk
signal, so clk shall be the only signal in the sensitivity list.

/Peter

I agree with your opinion and so do most text books I have read. Flips
flops do not change state on data or enable transitions only. They
require a clock.

However it seems the tool designers have a different opinion. All the
synthesis tools that I have used do not like any signal within a
process that appears on the right hand side of an assignment statement
to be left out of the sensitivity list. Otherwise they issue an
"incomplete sensitivity" list warning.

The tools seem to know what was intended, so they synthesize the
design properly anyway, but they also issue the warning. This is fine
for small designs, but when synthesizing a large design, I do not want
to wade thru hundreds of these "bogus" warnings when I am only
interested in "real" warnings or errors that should be corrected.
Therefore to avoid this I always try to have complete sensitivity
lists.

I absolutely disagree with you on this. I have _never_ used a
_synthesis_ tool that issues a warning in this situation (and I've used
at least 6 different tools). ModelSim will issue these warnings if you
turn on "synthesis" checking but this is because this option is, IMO,
not implemented properly. The ONLY signals that should appear in the
sensitivity list of a process, that THE SYNTHESIS TOOL RECOGNIZES AS A
FLIP-FLOP, are asynchronous set/clears and the clock. This is defined in
the IEEE synthesizable VHDL standard, P1076.6.

A tool WILL issue warnings if you create a COMBINATIONAL process and
don't fully specify the sensitivity list.
--
Tim Hubberstey, P.Eng. . . . . . Hardware/Software Consulting Engineer
Marmot Engineering . . . . . . . VHDL, ASICs, FPGAs, embedded systems
Vancouver, BC, Canada . . . . . . . . . . . http://www.marmot-eng.com

JohnP · Jun 7, 2004

Hi Naveen

What you are doing is not a PLL. But a PLL is the traditional way to sync.
local and remote clocks. IF you can add an external OpAmp & VCXO to your
logic device then the VHDL for the Phase Detector is simple.

Newbie

"MNQ" <corlioni1976REMOVE@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c9mr9a$5tv$1@rdel.co.uk...

Hi All

I'm trying to write some code to synchronise my local clock with some
incoming data. At the moment when the receiver sees a specific bit
pattern,
it makes pattern go to logic 1 for one clock period. This resets my clock
and adds a small delay to my 2MHz clock. If I use this method I
effectively
loose a clock cycle which I cannot afford. I want to reset my clock on
the
rising edge of pattern, but when I use the code

If pattern='1' and pattern'event then clock_divide<="00010" ;

I get a bad synchronous error when I synthesize

Am I correct in thinking that this is a digital phase locked loop?

Can anyone suggest a way of doing this as I have no idea at the moment and
time is slipping by.

Thanks for any help

clk = 65.536MHz
clock_2MHz should be 2.048MHz
CPLD is XC2C384

clock_divider : PROCESS (clk, pattern)
BEGIN
IF pattern='1' THEN clock_divide <= "00010";
ELSIF clk='1' AND clk'event THEN
clock_divide <= clock_divide - 1;
END IF;
END PROCESS clock_divider;

clock_2MHz <= clock_divide(4);

--
Mr Naveed Qayyum

www.mnq.org.uk

MNQ · Jun 8, 2004

Hi Newbie
Do you have any circuits diagrams or some thing that I can use to build a
VCXO I hav'nt done this in a while?

thanks

Naveed
"JohnP" <john.pearson@jpearson.homechoice.co.uk> wrote in message
news:40c4c47a$1@news1.homechoice.co.uk...

Hi Naveen

What you are doing is not a PLL. But a PLL is the traditional way to
sync.
local and remote clocks. IF you can add an external OpAmp & VCXO to your
logic device then the VHDL for the Phase Detector is simple.

Newbie

"MNQ" <corlioni1976REMOVE@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c9mr9a$5tv$1@rdel.co.uk...
Hi All

I'm trying to write some code to synchronise my local clock with some
incoming data. At the moment when the receiver sees a specific bit
pattern,
it makes pattern go to logic 1 for one clock period. This resets my
clock
and adds a small delay to my 2MHz clock. If I use this method I
effectively
loose a clock cycle which I cannot afford. I want to reset my clock on
the
rising edge of pattern, but when I use the code

If pattern='1' and pattern'event then clock_divide<="00010" ;

I get a bad synchronous error when I synthesize

Am I correct in thinking that this is a digital phase locked loop?

Can anyone suggest a way of doing this as I have no idea at the moment
and
time is slipping by.

Thanks for any help

clk = 65.536MHz
clock_2MHz should be 2.048MHz
CPLD is XC2C384

clock_divider : PROCESS (clk, pattern)
BEGIN
IF pattern='1' THEN clock_divide <= "00010";
ELSIF clk='1' AND clk'event THEN
clock_divide <= clock_divide - 1;
END IF;
END PROCESS clock_divider;

clock_2MHz <= clock_divide(4);

--
Mr Naveed Qayyum

www.mnq.org.uk

mike_usa · Jun 8, 2004

Naveed,

Do you think you can afford width of pattern=1 equal half clock cycle? Or
even 1/4 (1/8) of clock cycle if you have 4Mhz (8Mhz) clock in your
circuit? When the width of the patten=1 smaller enough, your
re-synchronized output clock will look much better. Hopefully it helps.
process(patter_half, clk)
begin
if patter_half = '1' then
syn_out_clk <= '0';
else
syn_out_clk <= clk;
end if;

JohnP · Jun 9, 2004

The VCXO is a voltage controlled Xtal - many people supply 'em including CTS
Reeves,
CMAC, Frequency Controls, Ecmelectronics etc

Note that VCXOs come in 2 type, fast make and regular. You want fast make
for prototyping (as you are in a hurry) and regular for manufacture. If your
PCB
is crowded choose both types with the same footprint so you can swop out the
fast make for the regular without having to mount both devices.

The phase detector VDHL (to get back OT ) is

entity PLL_Mixer is
port (
output: buffer STD_LOGIC;
clk_in_1: in STD_LOGIC;
clk_in_2: in STD_LOGIC;
reset: in STD_LOGIC
);
end PLL_Mixer;

architecture PLL_Mixer_arch of PLL_Mixer is
signal clear: std_logic;
signal Q2: std_logic;
begin

D_Type1: process (reset, clk_in_1, clear)
begin
if reset ='0' then
output <= '0';
elsif clear ='1' then output <= '0';
elsif (clk_in_1 'event and clk_in_1 ='1' ) then
output <= '1';
end if;
end process pll_mixer1;

D_Type2: process (reset, clk_in_2, clear, output)
begin
if reset ='0' then
Q2 <= '0';
elsif clear ='1' then
Q2 <= '0';
elsif (clk_in_2 'event and clk_in_2 ='1' ) then
Q2 <= output;
end if;
end process pll_mixer2;
clear <= output AND Q2;
end pll_mixer_arch;

The frequency of "output" should be a few kilohertz so you likely will
have to divide down inputs clk_in_1 and clk_in_2, depending on what these
are. "output" goes to the OpAmp LP filter which drives the VCXO - Voila !

Mail me if you want a circuit diag.

Newbie

"MNQ" <corlioni1976REMOVE@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ca3mbk$gg5$1@rdel.co.uk...

Hi Newbie
Do you have any circuits diagrams or some thing that I can use to build a
VCXO I hav'nt done this in a while?

thanks

Naveed
"JohnP" <john.pearson@jpearson.homechoice.co.uk> wrote in message
news:40c4c47a$1@news1.homechoice.co.uk...
Hi Naveen

What you are doing is not a PLL. But a PLL is the traditional way to
sync.
local and remote clocks. IF you can add an external OpAmp & VCXO to
your
logic device then the VHDL for the Phase Detector is simple.

Newbie

"MNQ" <corlioni1976REMOVE@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c9mr9a$5tv$1@rdel.co.uk...
Hi All

I'm trying to write some code to synchronise my local clock with some
incoming data. At the moment when the receiver sees a specific bit
pattern,
it makes pattern go to logic 1 for one clock period. This resets my
clock
and adds a small delay to my 2MHz clock. If I use this method I
effectively
loose a clock cycle which I cannot afford. I want to reset my clock
on
the
rising edge of pattern, but when I use the code

If pattern='1' and pattern'event then clock_divide<="00010" ;

I get a bad synchronous error when I synthesize

Am I correct in thinking that this is a digital phase locked loop?

Can anyone suggest a way of doing this as I have no idea at the moment
and
time is slipping by.

Thanks for any help

clk = 65.536MHz
clock_2MHz should be 2.048MHz
CPLD is XC2C384

clock_divider : PROCESS (clk, pattern)
BEGIN
IF pattern='1' THEN clock_divide <= "00010";
ELSIF clk='1' AND clk'event THEN
clock_divide <= clock_divide - 1;
END IF;
END PROCESS clock_divider;

clock_2MHz <= clock_divide(4);

--
Mr Naveed Qayyum

www.mnq.org.uk

johnp · Jun 9, 2004

And THIS is my corect mail addy - - - sorry for that.
"JohnP" <john.pearson@homechoice.co.uk> wrote in message news:40c6b9e4

Problems with DPLLing

MNQ

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