Prem Nath Thakur, general manager of the Tribhuvan International Airport in Kathmandu, said the plane had been granted landing clearance bef...

[a a]

Prem Nath Thakur, general manager of the Tribhuvan International Airport in Kathmandu, said the plane had been granted landing clearance before it crashed in the Seti River gorge.


https://english.news.cn/20230115/4a24b1da81ed4b89b5d5d660a2fbacfe/c.html

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 5:56:33 PM UTC-5, a a wrote:

Prem Nath Thakur, general manager of the Tribhuvan International Airport in Kathmandu, said the plane had been granted landing clearance before it crashed in the Seti River gorge.


https://english.news.cn/20230115/4a24b1da81ed4b89b5d5d660a2fbacfe/c.html

The student copilot was landing the plane, under the direction of the pilot.. They were originally assigned one runway but something developed and they asked the airport for a specific second runway. The airport gave them permission for the new runway and shortly thereafter the aircraft crashed.
The aircraft inexplicably started to roll longitudinally back and forth until culminating in a catastrophic aerodynamic stall with zero wing lift, causing it to crash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KShSbxIOpi0

 

[a a]

On Tuesday, 17 January 2023 at 02:30:02 UTC+1, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 5:56:33 PM UTC-5, a a wrote:
Prem Nath Thakur, general manager of the Tribhuvan International Airport in Kathmandu, said the plane had been granted landing clearance before it crashed in the Seti River gorge.


https://english.news.cn/20230115/4a24b1da81ed4b89b5d5d660a2fbacfe/c.html
The student copilot was landing the plane, under the direction of the pilot. They were originally assigned one runway but something developed and they asked the airport for a specific second runway. The airport gave them permission for the new runway and shortly thereafter the aircraft crashed.
The aircraft inexplicably started to roll longitudinally back and forth until culminating in a catastrophic aerodynamic stall with zero wing lift, causing it to crash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KShSbxIOpi0

one another crash due to Flight Termination System remotely activated

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 10:44:58 AM UTC-5, a a wrote:

On Tuesday, 17 January 2023 at 02:30:02 UTC+1, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 5:56:33 PM UTC-5, a a wrote:
Prem Nath Thakur, general manager of the Tribhuvan International Airport in Kathmandu, said the plane had been granted landing clearance before it crashed in the Seti River gorge.


https://english.news.cn/20230115/4a24b1da81ed4b89b5d5d660a2fbacfe/c.html
The student copilot was landing the plane, under the direction of the pilot. They were originally assigned one runway but something developed and they asked the airport for a specific second runway. The airport gave them permission for the new runway and shortly thereafter the aircraft crashed.
The aircraft inexplicably started to roll longitudinally back and forth until culminating in a catastrophic aerodynamic stall with zero wing lift, causing it to crash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KShSbxIOpi0
one another crash due to Flight Termination System remotely activated

Watch the video of the final moments- a 90o roll and starting a corkscrew dive it never got to finish. Supposedly Nepal has the world\'s record for airline crashes.

https://www.timesnownews.com/auto/nepal-airplane-crash-why-pokhara-international-airport-is-worlds-most-dangerous-article-97007404

 

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Am 17.01.23 um 19:40 schrieb Fred Bloggs:

Watch the video of the final moments- a 90o roll and starting a corkscrew dive it never got to finish. Supposedly Nepal has the world\'s record for airline crashes.

https://www.timesnownews.com/auto/nepal-airplane-crash-why-pokhara-international-airport-is-worlds-most-dangerous-article-97007404

Very badly researched article. Probably world\'s most badly researched one.

Pokhara and KTM are NOT that horrible. KTM tends to be foggy
in the morning. If it needs to be Nepals, both Lukla and Jomsom
are _much_ worse.

Lukla is the door to the Everest region and located on a nose
of a mountain. If you arrive too deep, you fly against the nose
of the mountain. If you are too high, you hit the mountain
400 meters later. There is no room to go around. You have only
one try. OK, me being an ex glider pilot, I can accept that
better than most.
When we arrived at Lukla, we were greeted by a crashed Pilatus
Twin Otter to the left and another one to the right. The runway
is STEEP. Turns out to be good for starts; such a overpowered
Twin Otter is airborne after 10 meters. (2 turbines for 14 PAX)

Lukla gets foggy in the afternoon. That creates a narrow flight
window to KTM that has the fog in the morning. Sometimes it is
impossible to fly at all for a week. Then the little village
Lukla is filled with 300 disgruntled tourists whose flights
home to US or EU have just expired. If a flight is possible
in this situation, the booked passengers for this flight go
first. Only after that, the waiting list is processed.

We had such a situation, but enough buffer time. We could walk
down to Jiri where the busses go. And the bus ride on the
roof was something special, too. Just a rope in the middle of
the roof and a 20 cm high reeling around.

The other really bad airport is Jomsom. When the sun shines,
the Annapurna mountains create thermals beyond belief. That\'s
in a narrow valley between two >8000 meter mountains.

Google Lukla or Jomsom!



Yours truly @ Jomsom:
<
https://get.google.com/albumarchive/103357048842463945642/album/AF1QipMYBHQTwzbh2wCIPDXe5LVF6KqYaGG8NZWdYlAG/AF1QipMdgeg0vfjMGCLFIlwnkbULP_qwO4UCuvIJTL7I
>

Pokhara airport:
<
https://get.google.com/albumarchive/103357048842463945642/album/AF1QipMYBHQTwzbh2wCIPDXe5LVF6KqYaGG8NZWdYlAG/AF1QipOyny9LOcCpE2l5gB56_sjIuRpsToRT6X9H_u-i
>

I could not resist a test flight:
Above Pokhara. Annapurna is to the left in the fog.
It turned out that the couple who ran the aviation school flew
tourists in the summer around Neuschwanstein castle, Bavaria.
We even both knew some people from a bavarian airport.
It is a small world.

<
https://get.google.com/albumarchive/103357048842463945642/album/AF1QipMYBHQTwzbh2wCIPDXe5LVF6KqYaGG8NZWdYlAG/AF1QipMgNpFQaktc2o8n0hkK5wbOjhN5MVGOeF5npNAA

Cheers, Gerhard

 

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[Fred Bloggs]

On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 3:07:08 PM UTC-5, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:

Am 17.01.23 um 19:40 schrieb Fred Bloggs:
Watch the video of the final moments- a 90o roll and starting a corkscrew dive it never got to finish. Supposedly Nepal has the world\'s record for airline crashes.

https://www.timesnownews.com/auto/nepal-airplane-crash-why-pokhara-international-airport-is-worlds-most-dangerous-article-97007404
Very badly researched article. Probably world\'s most badly researched one..

Pokhara and KTM are NOT that horrible. KTM tends to be foggy
in the morning. If it needs to be Nepals, both Lukla and Jomsom
are _much_ worse.

Lukla is the door to the Everest region and located on a nose
of a mountain. If you arrive too deep, you fly against the nose
of the mountain. If you are too high, you hit the mountain
400 meters later. There is no room to go around. You have only
one try. OK, me being an ex glider pilot, I can accept that
better than most.
When we arrived at Lukla, we were greeted by a crashed Pilatus
Twin Otter to the left and another one to the right. The runway
is STEEP. Turns out to be good for starts; such a overpowered
Twin Otter is airborne after 10 meters. (2 turbines for 14 PAX)

Lukla gets foggy in the afternoon. That creates a narrow flight
window to KTM that has the fog in the morning. Sometimes it is
impossible to fly at all for a week. Then the little village
Lukla is filled with 300 disgruntled tourists whose flights
home to US or EU have just expired. If a flight is possible
in this situation, the booked passengers for this flight go
first. Only after that, the waiting list is processed.

We had such a situation, but enough buffer time. We could walk
down to Jiri where the busses go. And the bus ride on the
roof was something special, too. Just a rope in the middle of
the roof and a 20 cm high reeling around.

The other really bad airport is Jomsom. When the sun shines,
the Annapurna mountains create thermals beyond belief. That\'s
in a narrow valley between two >8000 meter mountains.

Google Lukla or Jomsom!

I watched some videos of landing and takeoffs at Lukla. Just one hiccup and the plane is gone.

For this latest crash it looks like something was broken, like a control surface, and the pilot didn\'t have enough time to figure out how to work around it.

This crash from 37 years ago was a case in point where the pilot completely loss control of the aircraft due to structural failure. But he figured out how to work the thrusts to the engines differentially to maintain yaw control. He was making it back to the airport but was so distracted by working the controls that he overlooked his terrain clearance and crashed into a mountainside. Amazingly most of the passengers survived the crash but died of their injuries before rescue could get to them in the steep terrain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air_Lines_Flight_123

Yours truly @ Jomsom:

https://get.google.com/albumarchive/103357048842463945642/album/AF1QipMYBHQTwzbh2wCIPDXe5LVF6KqYaGG8NZWdYlAG/AF1QipMdgeg0vfjMGCLFIlwnkbULP_qwO4UCuvIJTL7I


Pokhara airport:

https://get.google.com/albumarchive/103357048842463945642/album/AF1QipMYBHQTwzbh2wCIPDXe5LVF6KqYaGG8NZWdYlAG/AF1QipOyny9LOcCpE2l5gB56_sjIuRpsToRT6X9H_u-i


I could not resist a test flight:
Above Pokhara. Annapurna is to the left in the fog.
It turned out that the couple who ran the aviation school flew
tourists in the summer around Neuschwanstein castle, Bavaria.
We even both knew some people from a bavarian airport.
It is a small world.


https://get.google.com/albumarchive/103357048842463945642/album/AF1QipMYBHQTwzbh2wCIPDXe5LVF6KqYaGG8NZWdYlAG/AF1QipMgNpFQaktc2o8n0hkK5wbOjhN5MVGOeF5npNAA

Interesting- just looking at those pictures makes me gasp for oxygen. No thanks ever going there.

Cheers, Gerhard

 

[Mike Monett VE3BTI]

Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> wrote:

Am 17.01.23 um 19:40 schrieb Fred Bloggs:

Watch the video of the final moments- a 90o roll and starting a
corkscrew dive it never got to finish. Supposedly Nepal has the world\'s
record for airline crashes.

https://www.timesnownews.com/auto/nepal-airplane-crash-why-pokhara-inter
national-airport-is-worlds-most-dangerous-article-97007404

Very badly researched article. Probably world\'s most badly researched
one.

Looks like a standard stall/spin. Too slow.

Video Captures Plane Losing Control Moments Before Crashing in Nepal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugbrNP9Q5Io



--
MRM

 

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Am 18.01.23 um 01:44 schrieb Mike Monett VE3BTI:
> Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> wrote:

No, I did not write that.

Am 17.01.23 um 19:40 schrieb Fred Bloggs:

Watch the video of the final moments- a 90o roll and starting a
corkscrew dive it never got to finish. Supposedly Nepal has the world\'s
record for airline crashes.

https://www.timesnownews.com/auto/nepal-airplane-crash-why-pokhara-inter
national-airport-is-worlds-most-dangerous-article-97007404

Very badly researched article. Probably world\'s most badly researched
one.

Looks like a standard stall/spin. Too slow.

Video Captures Plane Losing Control Moments Before Crashing in Nepal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugbrNP9Q5Io

Yes, from the short snipped I saw in the news: He was both too
low and too slow and when he tried to do a right turn, the
inner wing stalled.

 

[Mike Monett VE3BTI]

Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> wrote:

Looks like a standard stall/spin. Too slow.

Video Captures Plane Losing Control Moments Before Crashing in Nepal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugbrNP9Q5Io

Yes, from the short snipped I saw in the news: He was both too
low and too slow and when he tried to do a right turn, the
inner wing stalled.

blancolirio calls it the same way:

Nepal ATR 72 Crash 15 Jan 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnuVPUsz9VE

A possible cure is flaperons, as used on the KitFox:

Kitfox - So Safe It Will Barely Kill You
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO7mtq4zW6E

Another option: I am a firm believer that pilots should get some stick and
rudder time, such as in a Piper Cub. Practise stall/spins and get used to
the mushy feeling of the controls near the stall and the shudder of the
wings. The first time you feel this in a regular plane, you will
instinctively push the nose forward to get out of the incipient stall.

The only time I stalled my brand new Piper PA-48 Malibu was when my flight
instructor told me to slow the airplane and keep the wings level with
rudder. Eventually the A/C snap rolled. It was so violent the fire
extinguisher broke loose and hit her on the back of the head, knocking her
unconscious.

So now I was alone in an airplane with the nose pointed straight at the
ground and the speed increasing by the second.

Fortunately, my most favorite pastime when flying a Piper Cub back in the
1950\'s was to do stall/spins. So I wasn\'t frightened in an A/C with the
nose pointed at the ground, and gently pulled it out of a very dangerous
situation.

Here\'s my plane so you can see how clean it is and how fast it built up
speed:

N4360V http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5874208&nseq=0

Of course, it would have been deadly at low altitude, such as experienced
by the pilot of the Cessna 140 Stall/Spin Accident at Wayne NE, described
by blancolirio:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpPFfZ76v4Q





--
MRM

 

[Mike Monett VE3BTI]

Mike Monett VE3BTI <spamme@not.com> wrote:

Another option: I am a firm believer that pilots should get some stick
and rudder time, such as in a Piper Cub. Practise stall/spins and get
used to the mushy feeling of the controls near the stall and the shudder
of the wings. The first time you feel this in a regular plane, you will
instinctively push the nose forward to get out of the incipient stall.

Another option I forgot is sideslips. I hate S-turns. These take you away
from the runway, are very difficult to judge, and are a perfect setup for
a stall/spin.

Sideslips are the perfect solution for losing altitude quickly. This is a
case where deliberate cross-controls are the safest way of getting down.
You always have the runway in sight, and can stop the sideslip instantly.

Another pet peeve is the standard downwind, base leg, and final approach
used at controlled airports. These also set you up for stall/spins if you
misjudge your turns. By far, I prefer the circular approach used by
fighter pilots in WWII. Here, you always keep the runway in sight, and can
use sideslips if necessary to get down. Unfortunately, this approach would
probably drive controllers nuts and get you a number to call the FAA.
Great at uncontrolled airports, however.

Just be sure there are no other A/C in the vicinity, and declare your
intentions on the typical Unicom frequency of 122.8 MHz. But it could also
be 122.7 MHz or 123.0 MHz. Also check the MULTICOM frequency of 122.9 MHz.
The airport data will show the frequency in use.





--
MRM

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 8:02:45 PM UTC-5, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:

Am 18.01.23 um 01:44 schrieb Mike Monett VE3BTI:
Gerhard Hoffmann <dk...@arcor.de> wrote:

No, I did not write that.

Am 17.01.23 um 19:40 schrieb Fred Bloggs:

Watch the video of the final moments- a 90o roll and starting a
corkscrew dive it never got to finish. Supposedly Nepal has the world\'s
record for airline crashes.

https://www.timesnownews.com/auto/nepal-airplane-crash-why-pokhara-inter
national-airport-is-worlds-most-dangerous-article-97007404

Very badly researched article. Probably world\'s most badly researched
one.

Looks like a standard stall/spin. Too slow.

Video Captures Plane Losing Control Moments Before Crashing in Nepal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugbrNP9Q5Io
Yes, from the short snipped I saw in the news: He was both too
low and too slow and when he tried to do a right turn, the
inner wing stalled.

He/she wasn\'t making a right turn, they were coming in for landing. The final turn was left btw. As analyzed by an Australian aviation expert, the nose was up too high and the airspeed was too slow. It is standard practice, and necessity, to have nose up at landing for the large and heavy commercial aircraft. With all that weight, it\'s fairly easy to damage the aircraft. The ATR-72-600 is fairly big, it was carrying 78 passengers. It\'s not a Piper Cub. How the heck could it not stall with the wings banked at nearly 90o.

https://simpleflying.com/why-aircraft-land-on-their-rear-wheels-first/#:~:text=To%20overcome%20the%20pressure%20put,down%20for%20a%20smooth%20landing.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 8:02:45 PM UTC-5, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:

Am 18.01.23 um 01:44 schrieb Mike Monett VE3BTI:
Gerhard Hoffmann <dk...@arcor.de> wrote:

No, I did not write that.

Am 17.01.23 um 19:40 schrieb Fred Bloggs:

Watch the video of the final moments- a 90o roll and starting a
corkscrew dive it never got to finish. Supposedly Nepal has the world\'s
record for airline crashes.

https://www.timesnownews.com/auto/nepal-airplane-crash-why-pokhara-inter
national-airport-is-worlds-most-dangerous-article-97007404

Very badly researched article. Probably world\'s most badly researched
one.

Looks like a standard stall/spin. Too slow.

Video Captures Plane Losing Control Moments Before Crashing in Nepal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugbrNP9Q5Io
Yes, from the short snipped I saw in the news: He was both too
low and too slow and when he tried to do a right turn, the
inner wing stalled.

It looks to me like the left landing gear was dangling, looked like it was swinging around and not locked in position. The pilot may have been trying for a last minute abort and was in such a hurry forgot all about the flap setting.