Power Supplies

K

Kari Laine

Guest
Hi,

I am trying to find schematics for PSUs. I found one, probably good one,
but it was very complicated and used an IC, which I probably won't get
anywhere.
So any good links welcome.

I understand the sub 3A PSUs somehow. But for example a 12V/60A ones are
mystery to me. One person told me that they use FET's. Are they
basically like the PC Power supply? But how they make the controllable
between 1.5 -- 12V with full load?

Any schema ?

I hope my continued questions are not regarded as spam...

Best Regards
Kari

--
PIC - ARM - DISPLAYS - RELAYS - MODULES - CONVERTERS - I2C - SPI -
KEYPADS - ACCESSORIES
http://www.byvac.com (I am just a satisfied customer)
 
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:07:59 +0300, Kari Laine <klaine8@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi,

I am trying to find schematics for PSUs. I found one, probably good one,
but it was very complicated and used an IC, which I probably won't get
anywhere.
So any good links welcome.

I understand the sub 3A PSUs somehow. But for example a 12V/60A ones are
mystery to me. One person told me that they use FET's. Are they
basically like the PC Power supply? But how they make the controllable
between 1.5 -- 12V with full load?

Any schema ?

I hope my continued questions are not regarded as spam...

Best Regards
Kari
Click to expand...
It's most likely a Switched Mode Power Supply (SMPS). I'm not saying
it couldnt be a linear regulator without seeing it,but at that power
level 720W its likely an SMPS.

You might want to try something less ambtious if this is your first
foray into SMPS's . They can be difficult at 7W let alone 700W.

A good basic IC to use; to learn some basics about variable linear
regulators is the old LM723. You will soon see the problems and
expense of building a linear regulator at 12V/60A.

A good basic SMPS CONTROLLER to use is the NCP3063 which is an
upgraded version of the old MC34063A-D.

http://www.intusoft.com/onsemipdfs/AN920-D.pdf

LM723
http://eu.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/4553.pdf

Googling anyone of those part numbers will get you a wealth of info.

Everything you could want to know about SMPS well almost; nothing
beats frying a few controllers and what not on the bench;-)

http://www.smps.us/

basic simulator

http://schmidt-walter.eit.h-da.de/smps_e/smps_e.html

Small steps first grasshopper;-)
 
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 14:10:11 -0400, Hammy <spam@spam.com> wrote:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:07:59 +0300, Kari Laine <klaine8@gmail.com
wrote:

Hi,

I am trying to find schematics for PSUs. I found one, probably good one,
but it was very complicated and used an IC, which I probably won't get
anywhere.
So any good links welcome.

I understand the sub 3A PSUs somehow. But for example a 12V/60A ones are
mystery to me. One person told me that they use FET's. Are they
basically like the PC Power supply? But how they make the controllable
between 1.5 -- 12V with full load?

Any schema ?

I hope my continued questions are not regarded as spam...

Best Regards
Kari

It's most likely a Switched Mode Power Supply (SMPS). I'm not saying
it couldnt be a linear regulator without seeing it,but at that power
level 720W its likely an SMPS.

You might want to try something less ambtious if this is your first
foray into SMPS's . They can be difficult at 7W let alone 700W.

A good basic IC to use; to learn some basics about variable linear
regulators is the old LM723. You will soon see the problems and
expense of building a linear regulator at 12V/60A.

A good basic SMPS CONTROLLER to use is the NCP3063 which is an
upgraded version of the old MC34063A-D.

http://www.intusoft.com/onsemipdfs/AN920-D.pdf

LM723
http://eu.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/4553.pdf

Googling anyone of those part numbers will get you a wealth of info.

Everything you could want to know about SMPS well almost; nothing
beats frying a few controllers and what not on the bench;-)

http://www.smps.us/

basic simulator

http://schmidt-walter.eit.h-da.de/smps_e/smps_e.html

Small steps first grasshopper;-)
Click to expand...
I should've added this. Browsing manufacturers sites can get a lot of
your questions answered. For instance

http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/supportDoc.do?type=manuals

What you want is

Linear & Switching Voltage Regulator Handbook

and

SWITCHMODE™ Power Supply Reference Manual

LT has a free SIMULATOR get it here.

http://www.linear.com/designtools/software/ltspice.jsp
 
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 14:23:23 -0400, Hammy <spam@spam.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 14:10:11 -0400, Hammy <spam@spam.com> wrote:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:07:59 +0300, Kari Laine <klaine8@gmail.com
wrote:

Hi,

I am trying to find schematics for PSUs. I found one, probably good one,
but it was very complicated and used an IC, which I probably won't get
anywhere.
So any good links welcome.

I understand the sub 3A PSUs somehow. But for example a 12V/60A ones are
mystery to me. One person told me that they use FET's. Are they
basically like the PC Power supply? But how they make the controllable
between 1.5 -- 12V with full load?

Any schema ?

I hope my continued questions are not regarded as spam...

Best Regards
Kari

It's most likely a Switched Mode Power Supply (SMPS). I'm not saying
it couldnt be a linear regulator without seeing it,but at that power
level 720W its likely an SMPS.

You might want to try something less ambtious if this is your first
foray into SMPS's . They can be difficult at 7W let alone 700W.

A good basic IC to use; to learn some basics about variable linear
regulators is the old LM723. You will soon see the problems and
expense of building a linear regulator at 12V/60A.

A good basic SMPS CONTROLLER to use is the NCP3063 which is an
upgraded version of the old MC34063A-D.

http://www.intusoft.com/onsemipdfs/AN920-D.pdf

LM723
http://eu.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/4553.pdf

Googling anyone of those part numbers will get you a wealth of info.

Everything you could want to know about SMPS well almost; nothing
beats frying a few controllers and what not on the bench;-)

http://www.smps.us/

basic simulator

http://schmidt-walter.eit.h-da.de/smps_e/smps_e.html

Small steps first grasshopper;-)

I should've added this. Browsing manufacturers sites can get a lot of
your questions answered. For instance

http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/supportDoc.do?type=manuals

What you want is

Linear & Switching Voltage Regulator Handbook

and

SWITCHMODE™ Power Supply Reference Manual

LT has a free SIMULATOR get it here.

http://www.linear.com/designtools/software/ltspice.jsp
Click to expand...
UNITRODE has had some nice seminars and books on the subject,
as well. TI has taken over and has them on their site.

There are a number of archived seminars here:
http://focus.ti.com/docs/training/catalog/events/event.jhtml?sku=SEM401001

Plus later ones here:
http://focus.ti.com/docs/training/catalog/events/event.jhtml?sku=SEM405006
http://focus.ti.com/docs/training/catalog/events/event.jhtml?sku=SEM406008
http://focus.ti.com/docs/training/catalog/events/event.jhtml?sku=SEM408003

These seminars also include a number of topics, such as:
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slup168/slup168.pdf
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slup169/slup169.pdf
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slup170/slup170.pdf
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slup171/slup171.pdf
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slup172/slup172.pdf
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slup173/slup173.pdf
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slup174/slup174.pdf

The Unitrode Magnetics Design Handbook, MAG 100A, is at:
http://focus.ti.com/docs/training/catalog/events/event.jhtml?sku=SEM401014

The book itself is labeled SLUP003, but I don't know where to
find that exact PDF file. Perhaps someone else can.

Jon
 
Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 14:23:23 -0400, Hammy <spam@spam.com
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 14:10:11 -0400, Hammy <spam@spam.com> wrote:

On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:07:59 +0300, Kari Laine <klaine8@gmail.com
wrote:

Hi,

I am trying to find schematics for PSUs. I found one, probably good one,
but it was very complicated and used an IC, which I probably won't get
anywhere.
So any good links welcome.

I understand the sub 3A PSUs somehow. But for example a 12V/60A ones are
mystery to me. One person told me that they use FET's. Are they
basically like the PC Power supply? But how they make the controllable
between 1.5 -- 12V with full load?

Any schema ?

I hope my continued questions are not regarded as spam...

Best Regards
Kari
It's most likely a Switched Mode Power Supply (SMPS). I'm not saying
it couldnt be a linear regulator without seeing it,but at that power
level 720W its likely an SMPS.

You might want to try something less ambtious if this is your first
foray into SMPS's . They can be difficult at 7W let alone 700W.

A good basic IC to use; to learn some basics about variable linear
regulators is the old LM723. You will soon see the problems and
expense of building a linear regulator at 12V/60A.

A good basic SMPS CONTROLLER to use is the NCP3063 which is an
upgraded version of the old MC34063A-D.

http://www.intusoft.com/onsemipdfs/AN920-D.pdf

LM723
http://eu.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/4553.pdf

Googling anyone of those part numbers will get you a wealth of info.

Everything you could want to know about SMPS well almost; nothing
beats frying a few controllers and what not on the bench;-)

http://www.smps.us/

basic simulator

http://schmidt-walter.eit.h-da.de/smps_e/smps_e.html

Small steps first grasshopper;-)
I should've added this. Browsing manufacturers sites can get a lot of
your questions answered. For instance

http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/supportDoc.do?type=manuals

What you want is

Linear & Switching Voltage Regulator Handbook

and

SWITCHMODE™ Power Supply Reference Manual

LT has a free SIMULATOR get it here.

http://www.linear.com/designtools/software/ltspice.jsp

UNITRODE has had some nice seminars and books on the subject,
as well. TI has taken over and has them on their site.

There are a number of archived seminars here:
http://focus.ti.com/docs/training/catalog/events/event.jhtml?sku=SEM401001

Plus later ones here:
http://focus.ti.com/docs/training/catalog/events/event.jhtml?sku=SEM405006
http://focus.ti.com/docs/training/catalog/events/event.jhtml?sku=SEM406008
http://focus.ti.com/docs/training/catalog/events/event.jhtml?sku=SEM408003

These seminars also include a number of topics, such as:
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slup168/slup168.pdf
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slup169/slup169.pdf
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slup170/slup170.pdf
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slup171/slup171.pdf
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slup172/slup172.pdf
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slup173/slup173.pdf
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/slup174/slup174.pdf

The Unitrode Magnetics Design Handbook, MAG 100A, is at:
http://focus.ti.com/docs/training/catalog/events/event.jhtml?sku=SEM401014

The book itself is labeled SLUP003, but I don't know where to
find that exact PDF file. Perhaps someone else can.

Jon
Click to expand...
Thank you VERY much for all of this information. Would keep me busy some
time to come :)

Best Regards
Kari

--
PIC - ARM - DISPLAYS - RELAYS - MODULES - CONVERTERS - I2C - SPI -
KEYPADS - ACCESSORIES
http://www.byvac.com (I am just a satisfied customer)
 
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:07:59 +0300, Kari Laine
<klaine8@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I am trying to find schematics for PSUs. I found one, probably good one,
but it was very complicated and used an IC, which I probably won't get
anywhere.
So any good links welcome.

I understand the sub 3A PSUs somehow. But for example a 12V/60A ones are
mystery to me. One person told me that they use FET's. Are they
basically like the PC Power supply? But how they make the controllable
between 1.5 -- 12V with full load?

Any schema ?

I hope my continued questions are not regarded as spam...

Best Regards
Kari
Click to expand...
Kari:

I would recommend starting out with a linear
supply, unless you have a specific project that
needs more amps. Unless you are already into
power electronics (motor controllers, etc), I
think you will find that 1 amp supplies will be
just fine for almost everything else. 1 amp will
be more than enough for projects with multiple
op-amps, for example, and/or lots of CMOS chips.

The way it has always worked out for me, is that
projects that need more power also need their own
supplies anyway, such as audio power amps.

I'd suggest starting with +/-15V supplies, which
you can use for most op-amps, and for a lot of
CMOS digital stuff on just the 0-15 supply. You
may also want a 5V supply for low-voltage op-amps
and logic.

These can all be built with readily available
1-amp linear regulator chips, and they are super
simple. I would stay away from SMPS designs until
you have a definite need for more amps. Not only
are they mode complex, but they involve high
frequencies that can really mess up whatever
project or measurement you are working on.

Plus, if you start out playing with big amps, you
can expect some big "phhhttts" along the learning
curve. Much better, IMHO, to learn on the tamer
stuff... cheaper (and safer) when you make a
mistake!

Best regards,





Bob Masta

DAQARTA v5.10
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter
Frequency Counter, FREE Signal Generator
Pitch Track, Pitch-to-MIDI
DaqMusic - FREE MUSIC, Forever!
(Some assembly required)
Science (and fun!) with your sound card!
 
Bob Masta wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:07:59 +0300, Kari Laine
Click to expand...
Thanks Bob,

yep I will do +/- 12V 1.0A supply.
I have already all the parts except housing.

To make housing right seems to be another graft to master.

The "super" switching PSUs. I was more interested to know how they are
implemented rather than building one. If I ever need such power I will
buy a ready made supply. Reasons are that the currents in that range are
so huge that I will surely burn my house with a self made supply.

One question I have though. I am thinking that one cannot use soldering
with that kind of currents - can one? If not then how the connections
are made?

Anyway thanks to all in this group. This is a great resource.

And about the mains. Before I try to measure it in any way(if there
really is need - witch I doubt) I will borrow a book and ask someone how
exactly to do that. I don't want to blow up my equipment or kill myself.


Best Regards
Kari

--
PIC - ARM - DISPLAYS - RELAYS - MODULES - CONVERTERS - I2C - SPI -
KEYPADS - ACCESSORIES
http://www.byvac.com (I am just a satisfied customer)
 
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:30:06 +0300, Kari Laine
<klaine8@gmail.com> wrote:

Bob Masta wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:07:59 +0300, Kari Laine

Thanks Bob,

yep I will do +/- 12V 1.0A supply.
I have already all the parts except housing.

To make housing right seems to be another graft to master.

The "super" switching PSUs. I was more interested to know how they are
implemented rather than building one. If I ever need such power I will
buy a ready made supply. Reasons are that the currents in that range are
so huge that I will surely burn my house with a self made supply.

One question I have though. I am thinking that one cannot use soldering
with that kind of currents - can one? If not then how the connections
are made?
Click to expand...
All the switchmode PSUs I've seen are soldered.
The important thing at higher currents is to make
the copper circuit board traces wide enough. I've
never run into problems with this, but it's
certainly possible. After all, if you make the
trace narrow enough it starts to look a lot like a
fuse!

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v5.10
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter
Frequency Counter, FREE Signal Generator
Pitch Track, Pitch-to-MIDI
DaqMusic - FREE MUSIC, Forever!
(Some assembly required)
Science (and fun!) with your sound card!
 
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:20:00 GMT, N0Spam@daqarta.com (Bob Masta)
wrote:

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:30:06 +0300, Kari Laine
klaine8@gmail.com> wrote:

Bob Masta wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:07:59 +0300, Kari Laine

Thanks Bob,

yep I will do +/- 12V 1.0A supply.
I have already all the parts except housing.

To make housing right seems to be another graft to master.

The "super" switching PSUs. I was more interested to know how they are
implemented rather than building one. If I ever need such power I will
buy a ready made supply. Reasons are that the currents in that range are
so huge that I will surely burn my house with a self made supply.

One question I have though. I am thinking that one cannot use soldering
with that kind of currents - can one? If not then how the connections
are made?

All the switchmode PSUs I've seen are soldered.
The important thing at higher currents is to make
the copper circuit board traces wide enough. I've
never run into problems with this, but it's
certainly possible. After all, if you make the
trace narrow enough it starts to look a lot like a
fuse!

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v5.10
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter
Frequency Counter, FREE Signal Generator
Pitch Track, Pitch-to-MIDI
DaqMusic - FREE MUSIC, Forever!
(Some assembly required)
Science (and fun!) with your sound card!
Click to expand...
This trace width calculator wil give you an idea. It seems pretty
accurate compared a few with a chart of conductor width for current
for a given temp rise in my power electronics book.

http://circuitcalculator.com/wordpress/2006/01/31/pcb-trace-width-calculator/

But for an SMPS you also have to consider RMS handling for the
switching loops.

http://circuitcalculator.com/rms.php
 
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:07:59 +0300, Kari Laine <klaine8@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi,

I am trying to find schematics for PSUs. I found one, probably good one,
but it was very complicated and used an IC, which I probably won't get
anywhere.
So any good links welcome.

I understand the sub 3A PSUs somehow. But for example a 12V/60A ones are
mystery to me. One person told me that they use FET's. Are they
basically like the PC Power supply? But how they make the controllable
between 1.5 -- 12V with full load?

Any schema ?

I hope my continued questions are not regarded as spam...

Best Regards
Kari
Click to expand...
Like bob already said - a basic three terminal regulator is a good
place to start. I would find a variable supply more useful, if I just
had one. Plus and Minus supplies find most of the applications in
linear electronics - and from you sig file, I get the idea that
perhaps you are more interested in digital (learning to run before
walking?)

I keep one small variable three terminal supply, two independent 12
VDC fixed supplies (separate cases and line cords), and one 12-24
unregulated heathen (lot of amps with circuit breakers), and a
variable (variac controlled) 0-18 / 5 amp with circuit breakers, and
one I call my "come along" brute force ~15 Volts with no protection
and enough output to start an outboard motor , and motorcycle (maybe a
small car too).

My tinkering is mostly with the variable 1 amp supply (a volt meter
mounted to it would be nice - read: "damn near necessary" yet I never
get around to it). The "picaxe" is mostly with 2-3 AA batteries (only
needs some micro amps), or a 5V regulated supply for the axe, and an X
voltage for the peripherals (mostly for the convenience of having one
switch control everything)

Check out the picaxe. Really amazing fun device. Low cost. No
programmer required. Free software. Just an RS232 serial port on
your computer, and three resistors to program, using BASIC, and maybe
a breadboard with three AA cells on it. Total outlay <$20 (or zero if
you have a junk box). Extra fast learning. And, from the forum, I
deduce there's a lot of folks learning to fly, run, and walk from
square one. (e.g. "how do I connect a transistor?" to "which
communications protocol does my flat panel display take?")

Cost of the chips is <~$3 to ~$12 US depending on which flavor you get
(8-40 pins). The 08M is the most basic chip - has on board music, PWM
out, a couple of programmable A/D inputs, etc.. All the regular BASIC
commands, plus some controller commands to make a pin an output and
have it go high or low. Only integer math - no decimals (so you work
around that).

I'm old. Learned vacuum tooobs back in the day, but I have become an
apostle for the 'axe. I have them working inside my computer, working
my electric range, time elapsed cameras, etc.. Even did a switching
(buck PS) - using an N channel mosfet switching to ground. These
things are just plain fun.

Site with all the skinny and program software, and manuals:
http://www.rev-ed.co.uk/picaxe/

Best place in the US to get them, IMO:
http://www.phanderson.com/picaxe/picaxe.html

UK AU NZ and EU have other outlets
--
 
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