Plug In GFCI Device Avail. ?

R

Robert11

Guest
Hello:

Was wondering if anyone makes a GFCI device that would just plug into a wall
outlet, and effectively be in series with, and provide protection to, an
extension cord (with perhaps a drill at the end) ?

Have never seen any.
None at HD either.

Beginning to believe they don't exist.

If not, why not ?

Thanks,
Bob
 
Hello Chris,

They don't. Liability issues emanate from this like a basket full of
vipers that's been smacked with a stick several times, then dumped on
the ground.
Click to expand...
If there was one, it would probably cost about $100. $2 for production,
$3 for profit and distribution and $95 for the liability insurance reserve.

I have seen extension cords with built-in GFCI though.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
 
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 19:16:04 +0100, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Chris <cfoley1064@yahoo.com> wrote
(in <1114624167.695127.183360@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>) about 'Plug
In GFCI Device Avail. ?', on Wed, 27 Apr 2005:

Robert11 wrote:
Hello:

Was wondering if anyone makes a GFCI device that would just plug into
a wall
outlet, and effectively be in series with, and provide protection to,
an
extension cord (with perhaps a drill at the end) ?

Have never seen any.
None at HD either.

Beginning to believe they don't exist.

If not, why not ?

Thanks,
Bob

They don't. Liability issues emanate from this like a basket full of
vipers that's been smacked with a stick several times, then dumped on
the ground.

OTOH, they are not only freely available in UK (for 230 V, 13 A of
course), but there are continual publicity campaigns to get people to
use them for any and every appliance that is not used inside the house.
Click to expand...

They are also available in Australia but they must be attached to the
user end of an extension cord as in the Clipsal E12, E13.
http://alfred.clipsal.com/scripts/apeweb.dll?SearchGroup&Tier=2&Code=774
(Select ESP Portable RCD/MCB Protected Outlets from menu)
 
"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:KgSbe.8651$J12.451@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Hello Chris,

They don't. Liability issues emanate from this like a basket full of
vipers that's been smacked with a stick several times, then dumped on
the ground.

If there was one, it would probably cost about $100. $2 for production,
$3 for profit and distribution and $95 for the liability insurance
reserve.

I have seen extension cords with built-in GFCI though.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Click to expand...
You guys have a problem. Those little beasts (the GFCI, not the lawyers) are
about $20 (Kiwi dollars, not even a real dollar!) and are basically a very
short extension cord with a GFCI in the middle. Big deal, where are the
issues??

Ken
 
I read in sci.electronics.design that Ken Taylor <ken@home.nz> wrote (in
<fHZbe.1951$Od6.296967@news.xtra.co.nz>) about 'Plug In GFCI Device
Avail. ?', on Thu, 28 Apr 2005:
You guys have a problem. Those little beasts (the GFCI, not the
lawyers) are about $20 (Kiwi dollars, not even a real dollar!) and are
basically a very short extension cord with a GFCI in the middle. Big
deal, where are the issues??
Click to expand...
In UK, ours are just an overgrown 13 A plug with a socket (and 'test'
button) built-in. One, maybe the only, advantage of the large size of
the plug. We can get the extensions (4 or 6 outputs, mostly) as well.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
 
Robert11 wrote:
Hello:

Was wondering if anyone makes a GFCI device that would just plug into a wall
outlet, and effectively be in series with, and provide protection to, an
extension cord (with perhaps a drill at the end) ?

Have never seen any.
None at HD either.

Beginning to believe they don't exist.

If not, why not ?

Thanks,
Bob
Click to expand...

Don't know if they are still available but I bought one 10-15 years ago for use
with hedge trimmer and weed whacker.
 
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 19:50:08 +1000, John G wrote:
"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:D1wElIG+fIcCFww0@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
I read in sci.electronics.design that Ken Taylor <ken@home.nz> wrote
(in <fHZbe.1951$Od6.296967@news.xtra.co.nz>) about 'Plug In GFCI Device
Avail. ?', on Thu, 28 Apr 2005:
You guys have a problem. Those little beasts (the GFCI, not the
lawyers) are about $20 (Kiwi dollars, not even a real dollar!) and are
basically a very short extension cord with a GFCI in the middle. Big
deal, where are the issues??

In UK, ours are just an overgrown 13 A plug with a socket (and 'test'
button) built-in. One, maybe the only, advantage of the large size of
the plug. We can get the extensions (4 or 6 outputs, mostly) as well.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.

Yes they have been available like that in Australia too I have 2 of
them.
They may have been withdrawn I don't know, as my new house has a built
in one because it is newer.

What is seen as the problem with this setup?
Click to expand...
Some idiot will plug it into a 3-to 2-prong adapter that they haven't
bothered to ground (AKA "cheater"), ergo no ground fault current, ergo
no protection, ergo one more dead idiot with relatives with lawyers.

Cheers!
Rich
 
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 14:38:45 +0000, Michael wrote:

Robert11 wrote:

Hello:

Was wondering if anyone makes a GFCI device that would just plug into a wall
outlet, and effectively be in series with, and provide protection to, an
extension cord (with perhaps a drill at the end) ?

Have never seen any.
None at HD either.

Beginning to believe they don't exist.

If not, why not ?

Don't know if they are still available but I bought one 10-15 years ago for use
with hedge trimmer and weed whacker.
Click to expand...
Well, imagine my surprise:
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=gfci+extension+cord

Cheers!
Rich
 
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 17:11:40 GMT, the renowned Rich Grise
<richgrise@example.net> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 19:50:08 +1000, John G wrote:
"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:D1wElIG+fIcCFww0@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
I read in sci.electronics.design that Ken Taylor <ken@home.nz> wrote
(in <fHZbe.1951$Od6.296967@news.xtra.co.nz>) about 'Plug In GFCI Device
Avail. ?', on Thu, 28 Apr 2005:
You guys have a problem. Those little beasts (the GFCI, not the
lawyers) are about $20 (Kiwi dollars, not even a real dollar!) and are
basically a very short extension cord with a GFCI in the middle. Big
deal, where are the issues??

In UK, ours are just an overgrown 13 A plug with a socket (and 'test'
button) built-in. One, maybe the only, advantage of the large size of
the plug. We can get the extensions (4 or 6 outputs, mostly) as well.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.

Yes they have been available like that in Australia too I have 2 of
them.
They may have been withdrawn I don't know, as my new house has a built
in one because it is newer.

What is seen as the problem with this setup?

Some idiot will plug it into a 3-to 2-prong adapter that they haven't
bothered to ground (AKA "cheater"), ergo no ground fault current, ergo
no protection, ergo one more dead idiot with relatives with lawyers.

Cheers!
Rich
Click to expand...
A ground is not necessary for the circuit to work.

What the device does is to detect any small (~5mA) difference between
the neutral and hot currents, using a type of CT. That difference is
assumed to be due to a undesirable circuit to ground.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
I read in sci.electronics.design that Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net>
wrote (in <pan.2005.04.28.17.12.18.161006@example.net>) about 'Plug In
GFCI Device Avail. ?', on Thu, 28 Apr 2005:

Some idiot will plug it into a 3-to 2-prong adapter that they haven't
bothered to ground (AKA "cheater"), ergo no ground fault current, ergo
no protection, ergo one more dead idiot with relatives with lawyers.
Click to expand...
We don't have those in UK, and our units are not GFCIs but RCDs
(Residual Current Detectors)- they operate on a difference in the L and
N currents exceeding 30 mA (or 10 mA for some critical applications). So
they WOULD work even if plugged into a non-grounded wall socket.
However, they (or some of them) can also detect that condition - the
test button doesn't work and you can't reset the breaker if it doesn't.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
 
In article <6Gu6J$gELScCFwUS@jmwa.demon.co.uk>,
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk says...
I read in sci.electronics.design that Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net
wrote (in <pan.2005.04.28.17.12.18.161006@example.net>) about 'Plug In
GFCI Device Avail. ?', on Thu, 28 Apr 2005:

Some idiot will plug it into a 3-to 2-prong adapter that they haven't
bothered to ground (AKA "cheater"), ergo no ground fault current, ergo
no protection, ergo one more dead idiot with relatives with lawyers.

We don't have those in UK, and our units are not GFCIs but RCDs
(Residual Current Detectors)- they operate on a difference in the L and
N currents exceeding 30 mA (or 10 mA for some critical applications).
Click to expand...
Aren't "RCD" and "GFCI" simply UKUS?

So
they WOULD work even if plugged into a non-grounded wall socket.
However, they (or some of them) can also detect that condition - the
test button doesn't work and you can't reset the breaker if it doesn't.
Click to expand...
Why? The test button on the GFCIs, on this side of the pond, connect
the load side hot to the line side neutral through a 15M(?) resistor.
This unbalances the current transformer and the device trips. No
ground is needed for GFCIs to operate.

--
Keith
 
In article <dWTzdMkxgTcCFwgm@jmwa.demon.co.uk>,
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk says...
I read in sci.electronics.design that Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz
wrote (in <MPG.1cdaf67b8afcf795989a14@news.individual.net>) about 'Plug
In GFCI Device Avail. ?', on Thu, 28 Apr 2005:

Aren't "RCD" and "GFCI" simply UKUS?

The original GFCIs were like our original ELCBs - voltage-operated
instead of current-operated - and DID need a ground.
Click to expand...
How do the voltage operated devices work?

The 'lock out' feature is there is because ALL our outlets are supposed
to be earthed, so one that isn't is definitely dangerous, and because
the earth conductor is looped through from one socket to the next, if
one is faulty others MAY be (but not necessarily, because we mostly use
ring-main wiring and not spurs).
Click to expand...
Ah, I see. New installations are supposed to be grounded here too.
Old (early '60s and before) may not be. A working GFCI is better than
nothing.

--
Keith
 
In article <1114716779.743005.318170@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
bigcat@meeow.co.uk says...
Keith Williams wrote:

Aren't "RCD" and "GFCI" simply UKUS?

Dont know what ukus is,
Click to expand...
UKUS == word differences between the UK and the US. You know;
colour/color, Aluminium/Aluminum, and all that rot, eh?

--
Keith
 
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:34:06 -0400, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 17:11:40 GMT, the renowned Rich Grise
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 19:50:08 +1000, John G wrote:
....
What is seen as the problem with this setup?

Some idiot will plug it into a 3-to 2-prong adapter that they haven't
bothered to ground (AKA "cheater"), ergo no ground fault current, ergo
no protection, ergo one more dead idiot with relatives with lawyers.

A ground is not necessary for the circuit to work.

What the device does is to detect any small (~5mA) difference between
the neutral and hot currents, using a type of CT. That difference is
assumed to be due to a undesirable circuit to ground.
Click to expand...
Sir, I stand corrected. :)

Thanks!
Rich
 
"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:D1wElIG+fIcCFww0@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
I read in sci.electronics.design that Ken Taylor <ken@home.nz> wrote
(in <fHZbe.1951$Od6.296967@news.xtra.co.nz>) about 'Plug In GFCI Device
Avail. ?', on Thu, 28 Apr 2005:
You guys have a problem. Those little beasts (the GFCI, not the
lawyers) are about $20 (Kiwi dollars, not even a real dollar!) and are
basically a very short extension cord with a GFCI in the middle. Big
deal, where are the issues??

In UK, ours are just an overgrown 13 A plug with a socket (and 'test'
button) built-in. One, maybe the only, advantage of the large size of
the plug. We can get the extensions (4 or 6 outputs, mostly) as well.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
Click to expand...
Yes they have been available like that in Australia too I have 2 of
them.
They may have been withdrawn I don't know, as my new house has a built
in one because it is newer.

What is seen as the problem with this setup?
--
John G

Wot's Your Real Problem?
 
I read in sci.electronics.design that Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz>
wrote (in <MPG.1cdaf67b8afcf795989a14@news.individual.net>) about 'Plug
In GFCI Device Avail. ?', on Thu, 28 Apr 2005:

Aren't "RCD" and "GFCI" simply UKUS?
Click to expand...
The original GFCIs were like our original ELCBs - voltage-operated
instead of current-operated - and DID need a ground.

The 'lock out' feature is there is because ALL our outlets are supposed
to be earthed, so one that isn't is definitely dangerous, and because
the earth conductor is looped through from one socket to the next, if
one is faulty others MAY be (but not necessarily, because we mostly use
ring-main wiring and not spurs).
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
 
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