please refresh my memory: what a PFC capacitor does and a re

[Larz]

I recently installed a mercury vapor light fixture. It is a 125 W lamp
with integrated ballast in the housing. Today, I check the current with
a clamp ammeter on the 120 VAC/ 60 Hz line going into the housing.
After a 10 minute warm up, the current reads approximately 2.3 A AC.
Not being sure, I then wired a series multimeter in line for a moment
and it too read 2.3 A. Unfortunately, there is no PFC with this yard
light, only the bulb and ballast, so I don't think anything can be done.
However....

In another set up I have on the way, there is the 175 W MV bulb, ballast
and the PFC capacitor that will be used with the ballast. Any ideas as
to performance would be welcome. I'm just looking for in general as I
realize we can't get too specific without any more figures, but I'm
really hoping the efficiency is better than with the 125 W set up.

Thank you in advance.

 

[KenW]

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:30:42 -0400, Larz <dispcal667@nospam.net>
wrote:

I recently installed a mercury vapor light fixture. It is a 125 W lamp
with integrated ballast in the housing. Today, I check the current with
a clamp ammeter on the 120 VAC/ 60 Hz line going into the housing.
After a 10 minute warm up, the current reads approximately 2.3 A AC.
Not being sure, I then wired a series multimeter in line for a moment
and it too read 2.3 A. Unfortunately, there is no PFC with this yard
light, only the bulb and ballast, so I don't think anything can be done.
However....

In another set up I have on the way, there is the 175 W MV bulb, ballast
and the PFC capacitor that will be used with the ballast. Any ideas as
to performance would be welcome. I'm just looking for in general as I
realize we can't get too specific without any more figures, but I'm
really hoping the efficiency is better than with the 125 W set up.

Thank you in advance.

Since I have no idea about them I searched for > PFC capacitor <
and there is plenty of information about them which my help you.


KenW

 

[Larz]

On 9/22/19 2:42 PM, KenW wrote:

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:30:42 -0400, Larz <dispcal667@nospam.net
wrote:

I recently installed a mercury vapor light fixture. It is a 125 W lamp
with integrated ballast in the housing. Today, I check the current with
a clamp ammeter on the 120 VAC/ 60 Hz line going into the housing.
After a 10 minute warm up, the current reads approximately 2.3 A AC.
Not being sure, I then wired a series multimeter in line for a moment
and it too read 2.3 A. Unfortunately, there is no PFC with this yard
light, only the bulb and ballast, so I don't think anything can be done.
However....

In another set up I have on the way, there is the 175 W MV bulb, ballast
and the PFC capacitor that will be used with the ballast. Any ideas as
to performance would be welcome. I'm just looking for in general as I
realize we can't get too specific without any more figures, but I'm
really hoping the efficiency is better than with the 125 W set up.

Thank you in advance.

Since I have no idea about them I searched for > PFC capacitor
and there is plenty of information about them which my help you.


KenW

I was just hoping to cut to the chase with someone using the examples
above. I'm not all that pleased with the lack of efficiency with the
125 W lamp, just wondering if the capacitor would increase efficiency
with the 175 W set up.

At one time, 25+ years ago, in college, we actually had to calculate the
correct capacitor to use in a circuit for PFC, but that's the last time
I did it.

 

[Larz]

On 9/22/19 2:42 PM, KenW wrote:

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:30:42 -0400, Larz <dispcal667@nospam.net
wrote:

I recently installed a mercury vapor light fixture. It is a 125 W lamp
with integrated ballast in the housing. Today, I check the current with
a clamp ammeter on the 120 VAC/ 60 Hz line going into the housing.
After a 10 minute warm up, the current reads approximately 2.3 A AC.
Not being sure, I then wired a series multimeter in line for a moment
and it too read 2.3 A. Unfortunately, there is no PFC with this yard
light, only the bulb and ballast, so I don't think anything can be done.
However....

In another set up I have on the way, there is the 175 W MV bulb, ballast
and the PFC capacitor that will be used with the ballast. Any ideas as
to performance would be welcome. I'm just looking for in general as I
realize we can't get too specific without any more figures, but I'm
really hoping the efficiency is better than with the 125 W set up.

Thank you in advance.

Since I have no idea about them I searched for > PFC capacitor
and there is plenty of information about them which my help you.


KenW

Ok, this shows me what happens:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPFKcUxbNuQ

Great refresher! So the capacitor in the mercury vapor circuit should
reduce the current if matched correctly. I wonder why there is no such
capacitor in my 125 W mercury vapor yard light?

 

[Phil Allison]

Larz wrote:
------------

I recently installed a mercury vapor light fixture. It is a 125 W lamp
with integrated ballast in the housing. Today, I check the current with
a clamp ammeter on the 120 VAC/ 60 Hz line going into the housing.
After a 10 minute warm up, the current reads approximately 2.3 A AC.
Not being sure, I then wired a series multimeter in line for a moment
and it too read 2.3 A. Unfortunately, there is no PFC with this yard
light, only the bulb and ballast, so I don't think anything can be done.
However....

In another set up I have on the way, there is the 175 W MV bulb, ballast
and the PFC capacitor that will be used with the ballast. Any ideas as
to performance would be welcome. I'm just looking for in general as I
realize we can't get too specific without any more figures, but I'm
really hoping the efficiency is better than with the 125 W set up.

** You are working under a serious delusion.

PFC caps or circuits have *NO* effect on a device's efficiency.

Power consumption remains exactly the same, with or without.

The sole purpose is to reduce the *current draw* and allow more lights or whatever to be used on the same AC supply circuit.

Current draw that is non-sine wave or not in phase with the voltage is always higher than when it is.


...... Phil

 

[Rob]

Larz <dispcal667@nospam.net> wrote:

On 9/22/19 2:42 PM, KenW wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:30:42 -0400, Larz <dispcal667@nospam.net
wrote:

I recently installed a mercury vapor light fixture. It is a 125 W lamp
with integrated ballast in the housing. Today, I check the current with
a clamp ammeter on the 120 VAC/ 60 Hz line going into the housing.
After a 10 minute warm up, the current reads approximately 2.3 A AC.
Not being sure, I then wired a series multimeter in line for a moment
and it too read 2.3 A. Unfortunately, there is no PFC with this yard
light, only the bulb and ballast, so I don't think anything can be done.
However....

In another set up I have on the way, there is the 175 W MV bulb, ballast
and the PFC capacitor that will be used with the ballast. Any ideas as
to performance would be welcome. I'm just looking for in general as I
realize we can't get too specific without any more figures, but I'm
really hoping the efficiency is better than with the 125 W set up.

Thank you in advance.

Since I have no idea about them I searched for > PFC capacitor
and there is plenty of information about them which my help you.


KenW


Ok, this shows me what happens:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPFKcUxbNuQ

Great refresher! So the capacitor in the mercury vapor circuit should
reduce the current if matched correctly. I wonder why there is no such
capacitor in my 125 W mercury vapor yard light?

Because it does not really matter for lamps that are typically used
solitarily or with 2 or 3. It is of course different when hundreds
of streetlights have to be powered.

 

On Sunday, 22 September 2019 19:30:46 UTC+1, Larz wrote:

I recently installed a mercury vapor light fixture. It is a 125 W lamp
with integrated ballast in the housing. Today, I check the current with
a clamp ammeter on the 120 VAC/ 60 Hz line going into the housing.
After a 10 minute warm up, the current reads approximately 2.3 A AC.
Not being sure, I then wired a series multimeter in line for a moment
and it too read 2.3 A. Unfortunately, there is no PFC with this yard
light, only the bulb and ballast, so I don't think anything can be done.
However....

done about what?

PFC is normally immaterial in domestic discharge lamps. You're not paying for the reactive current.

In another set up I have on the way, there is the 175 W MV bulb, ballast
and the PFC capacitor that will be used with the ballast. Any ideas as
to performance would be welcome.

google mercury lamps to get the figures. They're poor compared to fluorescent, led, sodium or more modern discharge lamps, hence they're obsolete.

I'm just looking for in general as I
realize we can't get too specific without any more figures, but I'm
really hoping the efficiency is better than with the 125 W set up.

Thank you in advance.

higher power discharge lamps do tend to be more efficient, but you're stuck with a poor efficiency lamp. Unless you change the lamp for something compatible & a lot more modern.


NT

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 15:02:07 -0400, Larz wrote:

Great refresher!

Obviously not *that* great.

So the capacitor in the mercury vapor circuit should
reduce the current if matched correctly. I wonder why there is no such
capacitor in my 125 W mercury vapor yard light?

Oh dear oh dear.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

Larz is amongst the Invincibly Ignorant - reminds me of Jimmy Neutron it its own way - might even be the same creature.

Let it be.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Adrian Caspersz]

On 23/09/2019 14:43, pfjw@aol.com wrote:

Larz is amongst the Invincibly Ignorant - reminds me of Jimmy Neutron it its own way - might even be the same creature.

Let it be.

Wait till it starts posting lots of links and answers its own questions.

Then you have id

--
Adrian C

 

[Fox's Mercantile]

On 9/23/19 10:25 AM, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 23/09/2019 14:43, pfjw@aol.com wrote:
Larz is amongst the Invincibly Ignorant - reminds me of Jimmy Neutron
it its own way - might even be the same creature.

Let it be.


Wait till it starts posting lots of links and answers its own questions.

Then you have id

*Laughs* You're thinking of that carbuncle on the ass of humanity Arlen
Holder.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

 

[Larz]

You know, everytime I post here I am met with sarcasm and other negative
commentary. I asked a simple question and only two people answered,
appropriately.

You might be surprised what degrees (yes, degrees) I have, but none in
electrical engineering. I did have an electric circuits course as part
of my major, but that was over 30 years ago and I forgot some things. I
never have liked working with AC and maybe, if you do in fact want to
poke fun at my questions as some obviously can't seem to resist for some
odd reason, then credit my lack of AC knowledge as the reason. I much
prefer DC, but unfortunately these lamps need AC circuitry.

So.... that being said.... I won't bother this patronizing, sarcastic
group anymore. I must say I have been using Usenet in various
capacities for over 20 years and I have never been meet with conduct
like I'm experiencing here. Some of you must be college professors
because you are a lot like some of the aholes I had.

I bid you farewell. My hat is off to you. Whatever floats your boat,
but know this: I won't respond nor post any further commentary in this
pathetic group. Goodbye.

 

[Larz]

On 9/22/19 11:05 PM, Phil Allison wrote:

Larz wrote:
------------

I recently installed a mercury vapor light fixture. It is a 125 W lamp
with integrated ballast in the housing. Today, I check the current with
a clamp ammeter on the 120 VAC/ 60 Hz line going into the housing.
After a 10 minute warm up, the current reads approximately 2.3 A AC.
Not being sure, I then wired a series multimeter in line for a moment
and it too read 2.3 A. Unfortunately, there is no PFC with this yard
light, only the bulb and ballast, so I don't think anything can be done.
However....

In another set up I have on the way, there is the 175 W MV bulb, ballast
and the PFC capacitor that will be used with the ballast. Any ideas as
to performance would be welcome. I'm just looking for in general as I
realize we can't get too specific without any more figures, but I'm
really hoping the efficiency is better than with the 125 W set up.



** You are working under a serious delusion.

PFC caps or circuits have *NO* effect on a device's efficiency.

Power consumption remains exactly the same, with or without.

The sole purpose is to reduce the *current draw* and allow more lights or whatever to be used on the same AC supply circuit.

Current draw that is non-sine wave or not in phase with the voltage is always higher than when it is.


..... Phil

Ok, I can accept that answer and will try and learn more.

 

[Larz]

On 9/23/19 5:27 AM, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, 22 September 2019 19:30:46 UTC+1, Larz wrote:

I recently installed a mercury vapor light fixture. It is a 125 W lamp
with integrated ballast in the housing. Today, I check the current with
a clamp ammeter on the 120 VAC/ 60 Hz line going into the housing.
After a 10 minute warm up, the current reads approximately 2.3 A AC.
Not being sure, I then wired a series multimeter in line for a moment
and it too read 2.3 A. Unfortunately, there is no PFC with this yard
light, only the bulb and ballast, so I don't think anything can be done.
However....

done about what?

PFC is normally immaterial in domestic discharge lamps. You're not paying for the reactive current.


In another set up I have on the way, there is the 175 W MV bulb, ballast
and the PFC capacitor that will be used with the ballast. Any ideas as
to performance would be welcome.

google mercury lamps to get the figures. They're poor compared to fluorescent, led, sodium or more modern discharge lamps, hence they're obsolete.


I'm just looking for in general as I
realize we can't get too specific without any more figures, but I'm
really hoping the efficiency is better than with the 125 W set up.

Thank you in advance.

higher power discharge lamps do tend to be more efficient, but you're stuck with a poor efficiency lamp. Unless you change the lamp for something compatible & a lot more modern.


NT

Thank you!

 

[Larz]

On 9/23/19 1:55 PM, Larz wrote:

You know, everytime I post here I am met with sarcasm and other negative
commentary.  I asked a simple question and only two people answered,
appropriately.

You might be surprised what degrees (yes, degrees) I have, but none in
electrical engineering.  I did have an electric circuits course as part
of my major, but that was over 30 years ago and I forgot some things.  I
never have liked working with AC and maybe, if you do in fact want to
poke fun at my questions as some obviously can't seem to resist for some
odd reason, then credit my lack of AC knowledge as the reason.  I much
prefer DC, but unfortunately these lamps need AC circuitry.

So.... that being said.... I won't bother this patronizing, sarcastic
group anymore.  I must say I have been using Usenet in various
capacities for over 20 years and I have never been meet with conduct
like I'm experiencing here.  Some of you must be college professors
because you are a lot like some of the aholes I had.

I bid you farewell.  My hat is off to you.  Whatever floats your boat,
but know this: I won't respond nor post any further commentary in this
pathetic group.  Goodbye.

I take some of this back: I will, in the future, respond to those who
responded to me appropriately but as for the rest, you are being
filtered. I won't let the negativity and sarcasm of a few select ruin
it for those who did answer or try to answer appropriately.

 

[Jon Elson]

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:30:42 -0400, Larz wrote:

I recently installed a mercury vapor light fixture. It is a 125 W lamp
with integrated ballast in the housing. Today, I check the current with
a clamp ammeter on the 120 VAC/ 60 Hz line going into the housing. After
a 10 minute warm up, the current reads approximately 2.3 A AC. Not being
sure, I then wired a series multimeter in line for a moment and it too
read 2.3 A. Unfortunately, there is no PFC with this yard light, only
the bulb and ballast, so I don't think anything can be done.
However....

Without a Wattmeter, you have no idea what the actual power draw is.
Some of that 2.3 A is reactive current, at 90 degrees to the voltage, and
you are not billed for that. Measuring the current and voltage
separately, you only get the VA (volts * amps) which is NOT the power in
Watts.

Jon

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <f8ydnTnWzv3UjhTAnZ2dnUU7-aednZ2d@giganews.com>, elson@pico-
systems.com says...

Without a Wattmeter, you have no idea what the actual power draw is.
Some of that 2.3 A is reactive current, at 90 degrees to the voltage, and
you are not billed for that. Measuring the current and voltage
separately, you only get the VA (volts * amps) which is NOT the power in
Watts

I never could get it in my head about AC power either. I know how volts
or amps can lead if there is any reactance in the circuit. I have an
inline power meter that shows voltage, current, and power (watts )_ A
heater element will show about the same watts as the voltage times the
courrent. A load with a large transformer in it will show a much
differant V times A than the watt meter. I understand it doing that,
but not how the power company realy charges for the power.

 

[amdx]

On 9/22/2019 2:02 PM, Larz wrote:

On 9/22/19 2:42 PM, KenW wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:30:42 -0400, Larz <dispcal667@nospam.net
wrote:

I recently installed a mercury vapor light fixture.  It is a 125 W lamp
with integrated ballast in the housing.  Today, I check the current with
a clamp ammeter on the 120 VAC/ 60 Hz line going into the housing.
After a 10 minute warm up, the current reads approximately 2.3 A AC.
Not being sure, I then wired a series multimeter in line for a moment
and it too read 2.3 A.  Unfortunately, there is no PFC with this yard
light, only the bulb and ballast, so I don't think anything can be done.
  However....

In another set up I have on the way, there is the 175 W MV bulb, ballast
and the PFC capacitor that will be used with the ballast.  Any ideas as
to performance would be welcome.  I'm just looking for in general as I
realize we can't get too specific without any more figures, but I'm
really hoping the efficiency is better than with the 125 W set up.

Thank you in advance.

Since I have no idea about them I searched for > PFC capacitor
and there is plenty of information about them which my help you.


KenW


Ok, this shows me what happens:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPFKcUxbNuQ

Great refresher!  So the capacitor in the mercury vapor circuit should
reduce the current if matched correctly.  I wonder why there is no such
capacitor in my 125 W mercury vapor yard light?

Kind of interesting, this website shows an electric motor has a PF of
0.15 with no-load, and 0.7 to 0.85 with a load.
> https://www.electricalengineeringtoolbox.com/2016/12/typical-power-factors-for-common.html

Mikek

 

[Phil Allison]

amdx dickhead wrote:

--------------------

Kind of interesting, this website shows an electric motor has a PF of
0.15 with no-load, and 0.7 to 0.85 with a load.

https://www.electricalengineeringtoolbox.com/2016/12/typical-power-factors-for-common.html

---------------------------------------------------

** Fraid the info is so minimal, it's highly misleading.

Motors used in domestic appliances like washers and fridges operate on full or near full load at all times - so have good PFs.

What they might do off load is not important, as it is very rare.

In any case, the current draw and power consumed off load is much lower.



..... Phil

 

[Larz]

On 9/23/19 2:47 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:30:42 -0400, Larz wrote:

I recently installed a mercury vapor light fixture. It is a 125 W lamp
with integrated ballast in the housing. Today, I check the current with
a clamp ammeter on the 120 VAC/ 60 Hz line going into the housing. After
a 10 minute warm up, the current reads approximately 2.3 A AC. Not being
sure, I then wired a series multimeter in line for a moment and it too
read 2.3 A. Unfortunately, there is no PFC with this yard light, only
the bulb and ballast, so I don't think anything can be done.
However....

Without a Wattmeter, you have no idea what the actual power draw is.
Some of that 2.3 A is reactive current, at 90 degrees to the voltage, and
you are not billed for that. Measuring the current and voltage
separately, you only get the VA (volts * amps) which is NOT the power in
Watts.

Jon

Wow, I didn't know this or had forgotten. I am fully used to working
with DC, seldom AC I see digital plug in wattmeters on Amazon in the
$10-15. Would something like those be satisfactory? I really would
like to find out the true wattage.