\"Pink\" pages from color printer...

[Don Y]

My other half printed a bunch of stuff at the local library,
today (I\'ve long ago discarded all of our color printers as
they were used so infrequently that they didn\'t justify the
space they occupied nor the effort to maintain!).

Immediately after the prints were \"delivered\", they looked
fine.

But, within minutes, started taking on a very noticeable pink
caste. E.g., even the white/blank areas became very noticeably
pink. And, this process continued as time went on. So much
so that the prints weren\'t usable.

The flaw is most definitely NOT in the source materials as
they were later reprinted on another (same make/model) printer
and have not exhibited this phenomenon.

I could understand if some unintended color had appeared in
the output immediately after being delivered by the printer.
But, can\'t imagine what sort of \"process\" allows a color to
gradually manifest after-the-fact.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[We verified this with different users printing different
source material from different sources: remote PC app vs.
directly from the printer\'s USB port]

AFAICT, these are color lasers so the pigment should have been
fused prior to output. Instead, they were perfectly white in
the areas that were expected to be (and remain!) white.

I\'ll make note of the make/model when next I visit the library
to see if I can get any information from manufacturer, search
engines, etc.

\'Tis a puzzlement...

 

[Martin Brown]

On 08/02/2022 04:44, Don Y wrote:

My other half printed a bunch of stuff at the local library,
today (I\'ve long ago discarded all of our color printers as
they were used so infrequently that they didn\'t justify the
space they occupied nor the effort to maintain!).

Immediately after the prints were \"delivered\", they looked
fine.

But, within minutes, started taking on a very noticeable pink
caste.  E.g., even the white/blank areas became very noticeably
pink.  And, this process continued as time went on.  So much
so that the prints weren\'t usable.

The flaw is most definitely NOT in the source materials as
they were later reprinted on another (same make/model) printer
and have not exhibited this phenomenon.

I could understand if some unintended color had appeared in
the output immediately after being delivered by the printer.
But, can\'t imagine what sort of \"process\" allows a color to
gradually manifest after-the-fact.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The only plausible one I can think of but it more usually affects
inkjets is that the paper is some horrible grade that still has way too
much alkali or acid on its fibres. The result is that the dye/pigment
changes colour slightly as it dries or sets. Solid reactions are very
much slower so it could be that is what was happening.

Try taking some decent quality A4 paper into the library and see if
using that makes a difference. If I didn\'t know you lived in a desert my
other guess would have been high humidity messing up the colours.

(again mostly affecting inkjets making them bleed)

[We verified this with different users printing different
source material from different sources:  remote PC app vs.
directly from the printer\'s USB port]

AFAICT, these are color lasers so the pigment should have been
fused prior to output.  Instead, they were perfectly white in
the areas that were expected to be (and remain!) white.

I\'ll make note of the make/model when next I visit the library
to see if I can get any information from manufacturer, search
engines, etc.

\'Tis a puzzlement...

My money would be on the paper it is printed onto followed by the wrong
sort of toners in the printer (but that usually result in an immediately
obvious colour cast right out of the printer).

I have generally found colour lasers to be incredibly stable. I have a
Dell 1320C which was one of the first cheap to run decently close to
photo real lasers. On the right media it can still give a pretty good
output even by todays standards. Inkjet is better for photos and optical
printing onto Fuji crystal mark archive is better still.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Clive Arthur]

On 08/02/2022 04:44, Don Y wrote:

My other half printed a bunch of stuff at the local library,
today (I\'ve long ago discarded all of our color printers as
they were used so infrequently that they didn\'t justify the
space they occupied nor the effort to maintain!).

Immediately after the prints were \"delivered\", they looked
fine.

But, within minutes, started taking on a very noticeable pink
caste.  E.g., even the white/blank areas became very noticeably
pink.  And, this process continued as time went on.  So much
so that the prints weren\'t usable.

The flaw is most definitely NOT in the source materials as
they were later reprinted on another (same make/model) printer
and have not exhibited this phenomenon.

I could understand if some unintended color had appeared in
the output immediately after being delivered by the printer.
But, can\'t imagine what sort of \"process\" allows a color to
gradually manifest after-the-fact.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[We verified this with different users printing different
source material from different sources:  remote PC app vs.
directly from the printer\'s USB port]

AFAICT, these are color lasers so the pigment should have been
fused prior to output.  Instead, they were perfectly white in
the areas that were expected to be (and remain!) white.

I\'ll make note of the make/model when next I visit the library
to see if I can get any information from manufacturer, search
engines, etc.

\'Tis a puzzlement...
I wonder if the operative came across a pack of very old copier paper?

Maybe 55-60 years ago my dad brought home some paper from work which was
for some or other document copying process. IIRC it would go pink on
exposure to light - I imagine there was some chemical process to darken
and fix this. We played with it for a while just putting objects on top
to leave pink \'shadows\', but had no way to fix it.

It might have been Dyeline paper, that rings a bell.

--
Cheers
Clive

 

[Chris Jones]

On 08/02/2022 15:44, Don Y wrote:

My other half printed a bunch of stuff at the local library,
today (I\'ve long ago discarded all of our color printers as
they were used so infrequently that they didn\'t justify the
space they occupied nor the effort to maintain!).

Immediately after the prints were \"delivered\", they looked
fine.

But, within minutes, started taking on a very noticeable pink
caste.  E.g., even the white/blank areas became very noticeably
pink.  And, this process continued as time went on.  So much
so that the prints weren\'t usable.

The flaw is most definitely NOT in the source materials as
they were later reprinted on another (same make/model) printer
and have not exhibited this phenomenon.

I could understand if some unintended color had appeared in
the output immediately after being delivered by the printer.
But, can\'t imagine what sort of \"process\" allows a color to
gradually manifest after-the-fact.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[We verified this with different users printing different
source material from different sources:  remote PC app vs.
directly from the printer\'s USB port]

AFAICT, these are color lasers so the pigment should have been
fused prior to output.  Instead, they were perfectly white in
the areas that were expected to be (and remain!) white.

I\'ll make note of the make/model when next I visit the library
to see if I can get any information from manufacturer, search
engines, etc.

\'Tis a puzzlement...

Maybe someone found some \"photo paper\" that was really not glossy inkjet
paper but instead photographic printing paper that needs to be exposed
on an enlarger and developed and fixed? If you don\'t put it in fixer I
think it does something like that.

 

[Dimiter_Popoff]

On 2/8/2022 14:12, Chris Jones wrote:

On 08/02/2022 15:44, Don Y wrote:
My other half printed a bunch of stuff at the local library,
today (I\'ve long ago discarded all of our color printers as
they were used so infrequently that they didn\'t justify the
space they occupied nor the effort to maintain!).

Immediately after the prints were \"delivered\", they looked
fine.

But, within minutes, started taking on a very noticeable pink
caste.  E.g., even the white/blank areas became very noticeably
pink.  And, this process continued as time went on.  So much
so that the prints weren\'t usable.

The flaw is most definitely NOT in the source materials as
they were later reprinted on another (same make/model) printer
and have not exhibited this phenomenon.

I could understand if some unintended color had appeared in
the output immediately after being delivered by the printer.
But, can\'t imagine what sort of \"process\" allows a color to
gradually manifest after-the-fact.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[We verified this with different users printing different
source material from different sources:  remote PC app vs.
directly from the printer\'s USB port]

AFAICT, these are color lasers so the pigment should have been
fused prior to output.  Instead, they were perfectly white in
the areas that were expected to be (and remain!) white.

I\'ll make note of the make/model when next I visit the library
to see if I can get any information from manufacturer, search
engines, etc.

\'Tis a puzzlement...

Maybe someone found some \"photo paper\" that was really not glossy inkjet
paper but instead photographic printing paper that needs to be exposed
on an enlarger and developed and fixed? If you don\'t put it in fixer I
think it does something like that.

I think this is the most likely scenario.

But Don, why not just ask C to enjoy the nice pink colour....
(recently I had ordered for myself a new pair of gloves on Aliexpress
and guess what, instead of the expected black I got them
purplish-pink ... Lucy would have enjoyed them tremendously. Ordered
again, this time (today) they came black. May be it has been my
mistake after all).

 

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Am 08.02.22 um 10:16 schrieb Clive Arthur:

Maybe 55-60 years ago my dad brought home some paper from work which was
for some or other document copying process.  IIRC it would go pink on
exposure to light - I imagine there was some chemical process to darken
and fix this.  We played with it for a while just putting objects on top
to leave pink \'shadows\', but had no way to fix it.

We played this with Tektronix / Polaroid film and Pechblende (Uranium ore).

Cheers, Gerhard.

 

[Don Y]

On 2/8/2022 1:30 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

On 08/02/2022 04:44, Don Y wrote:

I could understand if some unintended color had appeared in
the output immediately after being delivered by the printer.
But, can\'t imagine what sort of \"process\" allows a color to
gradually manifest after-the-fact.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The only plausible one I can think of but it more usually affects inkjets is
that the paper is some horrible grade that still has way too much alkali or
acid on its fibres. The result is that the dye/pigment changes colour slightly
as it dries or sets. Solid reactions are very much slower so it could be that
is what was happening.

Note that there should have been no pigment applied in these parts
of the page (the other, identical, printer left them white as intended).

So, you\'re thinking that the exposure to the Magenta toner left enough
of an \"invisible\" (to the fuser!) layer of toner that it eventually \"bloomed\"?

Try taking some decent quality A4 paper into the library and see if using that
makes a difference. If I didn\'t know you lived in a desert my other guess would
have been high humidity messing up the colours.

Note that the other printer -- located about 15 feet from the problem
printer -- likely was stocked with the same paper (and toner cartridges)
as the problem printer. Recall, this is a branch library so they don\'t
have a variety of different paper/toner stocks on hand to mix up...

(again mostly affecting inkjets making them bleed)

[We verified this with different users printing different
source material from different sources: remote PC app vs.
directly from the printer\'s USB port]

AFAICT, these are color lasers so the pigment should have been
fused prior to output. Instead, they were perfectly white in
the areas that were expected to be (and remain!) white.

I\'ll make note of the make/model when next I visit the library
to see if I can get any information from manufacturer, search
engines, etc.

\'Tis a puzzlement...

My money would be on the paper it is printed onto followed by the wrong sort of
toners in the printer (but that usually result in an immediately obvious colour
cast right out of the printer).

Had the discoloration been present \"from the start\", I could have imagined
a light leak or other problem in the processing. The fact that it \"grew\"
on the pages -- like watching an image appear on an old Polaroid -- is
the puzzling part.

[While troubleshooting this, another patron used the printer to print
some text documents -- despite being advised of the problem. As he
finished, I asked him how they looked. He happened to have the most
recent document in his hand and held it up for us to see: \"Fine!\"
Then, thumbed through the rest of them and noticed that they were
turning various shades of pink, based on time since processed.
\"Oh, well. I\'m sending this stuff to the IRS so let them deal
with it!\" (I don\'t recall any prohibition against sending in tax
documents on pink paper!)]

I have generally found colour lasers to be incredibly stable. I have a Dell
1320C which was one of the first cheap to run decently close to photo real
lasers. On the right media it can still give a pretty good output even by
todays standards. Inkjet is better for photos and optical printing onto Fuji
crystal mark archive is better still.

I had a pair of (solid ink) Phasers that loved. But, each time I
fired one up, the house smelled of \"burnt crayons\". And, there is
a significant startup cost (in ink) associated with this.

I had a color laser (also labeled a \"Phaser\") that didn\'t produce nearly
the vibrant colors that the solid ink Phasers produced (output from
them felt like glossy pages out of a magazine).

Plus, a couple of wide-body ink jets. But, ink would always dry up and
risk clogging the heads (heads weren\'t replaced with the ink supply
like on the HP units).

And, a little Sony thermal-dye-transfer \"postcard printer\" that I use
to print photos. It\'s tiny so I can keep it in a desk drawer!

I decided that I could better spend the time *walking* to the local
service bureau and having things printed there than messing around with
maintaining my own (color) printers.

[I have a pair of B&W, low-temperature lasers that suffice for printing
\"disposable\" stuff]

I queue up the stuff that needs to be \"professionally\" printed and
handle it all in one visit -- every few months, or so. (I have
just such a trip planned for this afternoon for some greeting cards
I\'ve made -- Valentine\'s Day and other assorted holidays/events)

 

[Don Y]

On 2/8/2022 2:16 AM, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 08/02/2022 04:44, Don Y wrote:
My other half printed a bunch of stuff at the local library,
today (I\'ve long ago discarded all of our color printers as
they were used so infrequently that they didn\'t justify the
space they occupied nor the effort to maintain!).

Immediately after the prints were \"delivered\", they looked
fine.

But, within minutes, started taking on a very noticeable pink
caste. E.g., even the white/blank areas became very noticeably
pink. And, this process continued as time went on. So much
so that the prints weren\'t usable.

The flaw is most definitely NOT in the source materials as
they were later reprinted on another (same make/model) printer
and have not exhibited this phenomenon.

I could understand if some unintended color had appeared in
the output immediately after being delivered by the printer.
But, can\'t imagine what sort of \"process\" allows a color to
gradually manifest after-the-fact.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[We verified this with different users printing different
source material from different sources: remote PC app vs.
directly from the printer\'s USB port]

AFAICT, these are color lasers so the pigment should have been
fused prior to output. Instead, they were perfectly white in
the areas that were expected to be (and remain!) white.

I\'ll make note of the make/model when next I visit the library
to see if I can get any information from manufacturer, search
engines, etc.

\'Tis a puzzlement...
I wonder if the operative came across a pack of very old copier paper?

It\'s a public library (branch) so likely sees a fair bit of turnover.

The \"letter size\" drawer holds ~2000 sheets and I imagine it is a daily
or weekly chore to verify the paper supplies are up to capacity for
each of the printers (library staff uses them for their \"business
needs\", as well).

The \"non-public\" portion of the building is rather small -- mainly
for sorting incoming \"returns\" and processing \"new titles\". So,
it\'s not likely that they have some oddball paper hiding in a dark corner
of a disused storage closet.

[And, they are resupplied by the main library a few times weekly
so no incentive to keep many \"supplies\" on hand]

Maybe 55-60 years ago my dad brought home some paper from work which was for
some or other document copying process. IIRC it would go pink on exposure to
light - I imagine there was some chemical process to darken and fix this. We
played with it for a while just putting objects on top to leave pink \'shadows\',
but had no way to fix it.

It might have been Dyeline paper, that rings a bell.

 

[Don Y]

On 2/8/2022 5:12 AM, Chris Jones wrote:

On 08/02/2022 15:44, Don Y wrote:
I\'ll make note of the make/model when next I visit the library
to see if I can get any information from manufacturer, search
engines, etc.

\'Tis a puzzlement...

Maybe someone found some \"photo paper\" that was really not glossy inkjet paper
but instead photographic printing paper that needs to be exposed on an enlarger
and developed and fixed? If you don\'t put it in fixer I think it does something
like that.

Again, this is a branch library. They only have on-hand the supplies that
the main library thinks they should need to provide their services.

While staff aren\'t rocket scientists, I think they would notice that
one of the four reams of paper each printer holds was \"packaged
differently\" than the others (that they\'ve been using for years).

But, the delayed aspect of the manifestation does suggest some
sort of (slow) \"chemical\" process.

 

[Don Y]

On 2/8/2022 10:05 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

On 2/8/2022 14:12, Chris Jones wrote:
On 08/02/2022 15:44, Don Y wrote:
My other half printed a bunch of stuff at the local library,
today (I\'ve long ago discarded all of our color printers as
they were used so infrequently that they didn\'t justify the
space they occupied nor the effort to maintain!).

Immediately after the prints were \"delivered\", they looked
fine.

But, within minutes, started taking on a very noticeable pink
caste. E.g., even the white/blank areas became very noticeably
pink. And, this process continued as time went on. So much
so that the prints weren\'t usable.

The flaw is most definitely NOT in the source materials as
they were later reprinted on another (same make/model) printer
and have not exhibited this phenomenon.

I could understand if some unintended color had appeared in
the output immediately after being delivered by the printer.
But, can\'t imagine what sort of \"process\" allows a color to
gradually manifest after-the-fact.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[We verified this with different users printing different
source material from different sources: remote PC app vs.
directly from the printer\'s USB port]

AFAICT, these are color lasers so the pigment should have been
fused prior to output. Instead, they were perfectly white in
the areas that were expected to be (and remain!) white.

I\'ll make note of the make/model when next I visit the library
to see if I can get any information from manufacturer, search
engines, etc.

\'Tis a puzzlement...

Maybe someone found some \"photo paper\" that was really not glossy inkjet
paper but instead photographic printing paper that needs to be exposed on an
enlarger and developed and fixed? If you don\'t put it in fixer I think it
does something like that.

I think this is the most likely scenario.

But Don, why not just ask C to enjoy the nice pink colour....

<frown> Had the image been printed edge-to-edge, she *might* not have
noticed it \"under\" her artwork. But, given that it was prominently
displayed *surrounding* her artwork, it would be easier to culture
snowballs for a July \"fight\" than convince her that the intended content
wasn\'t altered, in some way.

It\'s all *my* fault, actually. I encouraged her to take photos of
her work to document how each evolves. At 10c/page, you can\'t
beat the library\'s prices -- esp when you want *large* images!
In the past, I\'ve been the gopher to handle the actual printing for
her. In *this* case, she came along to learn how to do it.

Thankfully.

Had I come home with pink pages (because I failed to examine them
LONG after they had been printed), I\'d have been tasked with doing
them over. <frown>

(recently I had ordered for myself a new pair of gloves on Aliexpress
and guess what, instead of the expected black I got them
purplish-pink ... Lucy would have enjoyed them tremendously. Ordered
again, this time (today) they came black. May be it has been my
mistake after all).

Back in the days of Vinyl, I purchased an album that came on *yellow*
(\"gold\"), transparent vinyl. I thought this was the norm for the
album -- a gimmick, of sorts.

Apparently not as many of my friends had *black* vinyl of the same
title (in the same sleeve) and wondered where I had *ordered* the
gold one! \"I bought it at The Coop just like most of my vinyl\"

<shrug>

 

[Martin Brown]

On 09/02/2022 15:27, Don Y wrote:

On 2/9/2022 4:21 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

How pink did it get? Could be the paper is reacting to going through
the fuser and so printing a blank page would suffer the same fate.

Only the \"exposed\" side was discolored.  It was a diffuse pink (instead of
a bold/solid pink).  But, very noticeable.  If I left the sheets on a
table, you would notice the discoloration from across the room.

Ask them if you can take a clean sheet away and then try ironing it and
if that doesn\'t work torture it a bit with a heat shrink wrap gun.

ISTR you could sometimes get badly washed paper going a sort of pale
lemon yellow when heated if there was too much trace acid like lemon or
onion juice to make the wood pulp fibres discolour.

One of the easier natural invisible inks much safer than cobalt chloride
which is now very much discouraged as a probable carcinogen.

I\'ve not heard of one that turns paper magenta on heat exposure but it
is just possible.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 11/02/22 18:44, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

On 2/11/2022 11:08, Mike Coon wrote:
In article <su40jt$299$1@dont-email.me>, blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
says...

I\'m more interested in \"presentation means\" than in mechanisms.

E.g., I have a clock that displays the time on an LED display
that represents braille cells (the joke, of course, being that
the typical person who would understand braille wouldn\'t be able
to see the emitted light!)

I have a dial telephone that announces the time when you lift
the receiver.  And, \"rings\" when the alarm time arrives.

I\'ve drawn up a design for a sundial that has 24 equally spaced
hourly indications.

And, I\'m stretching my imagination to come up with a suitable
\"Rube Goldberg\" display/mechanism for a yard sculpture
(water driven, from an \"infinite well\")

I\'ve yet to sort out how to levitate bowling balls to display the
current hour/minute.  :<  (if not genuine bowling balls, the
display is without value)

Ah, then you might be more interested than me in advertisements I keep
seeing for these products: <https://www.tarquingroup.com/home-
learning/equipment/mobius-strip-clock.html

I built my first mechanical clock in the 1950s and this electronic (but
with no digital circuitry) one in 1960s:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1kJlQ9ypjtLYllqUnljYTR2UHc/view?
usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-gAKldV-iwCQo3nMdjOUyDQ


How on Earth did you build it with no digital circuitry? Or do you
mean no 74xx etc., just transistors? I remember a table-top
calculator (serially) built here in Bulgaria in the 60-s, it was
the size of a largish typewriter (not as wide but much longer)
which was built only on transistors, must have been a zillion
KT315 inside (a popular Soviet transistor).

I have a a piece of Tektronix lab equipment which divides
by 5 using 3 transistors plus many simple passive components.

Basic principle is that a pulse deposits a glug of charge
on a capacitor. The fifth glug raises the voltage above a
threshold which causes the capacitor to be discharged and
a pulse delivered to the next stage.

That\'s sufficient to get a 5s period from a 10MHz oscillator.
To get the 2ns period, they use several frequency doublers
based on nuvistors, stray capacitance and bendable wires
forming coupled inductors.

FFI see the manual at https://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/184

 

[Don Y]

On 2/12/2022 2:33 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

On 11/02/2022 17:27, Don Y wrote:
I try to make \"unique\" pieces -- i.e., quantity 1 -- often as gifts.
Purchasing something that you could likely find in someone else\'s
home/office doesn\'t cut it.

I like it if you can\'t figure out that you are \"in the presence of\"
a timepiece. Even moreso if you can\'t figure out how to tell
time by it!

(e.g., my sundial tells time at night, too!)

My favourite hyper modern sundial has a digital display made possible by
additive manufacturing. You can print it on a 3D printer. It has the advantage
of the classical sundials that adjustment for daylight saving time is easy.
Just rotate it by 15 degrees. eg

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1068443
(other brands are available)

Yeah, I saw that when I was researching sundial ideas. I settled on mine
because it handles \"after sunset\" operation. (the implied \"joke\")

Lately, I am trying to make the *mechanism* \"invisible\". E.g., the
kinematic (Rube Goldberg) clock is driven by water power. The *timekeeping*
is accomplished by a servo controlling the speed of the pump -- with the
loop having an incredible lag (so, the control is challenging, in addition
to the mechanism design/fabrication).

I once made a fairly accurate water clock for a lecture demo as the cylinder of
revolution of a parabola cast in acrylic. If I had thought about it a little
more carefully I would have made a triangular reservoir between two parallel
sides instead (like the ancients did).

It beat calibrated candles hands down!

But the \"mechanism\" is fixed. A viewer wouldn\'t wonder how it is adjusted
to keep correct time.

E.g., in the kinematic display, the rate of water flowing is the obvious
calibration hook. But, you know an open-loop design just wouldn\'t work.
So, the puzzle is how/where the display\'s status is sensed and how that
is fed back to the pump (which obviously must exist to recirculate the
water)

For folks accustomed to designing loops, the interesting part would be the
huge lag in the loop and the inherent variability of the mechanism
(to wind, human intervention, etc.)

My first (electronic) clock (~1977) was a simple hack on a COTS NatSemi \"clock
chip\": demultiplexing the outputs to drive rings of 60 and 12 LEDs,
respectively, for minutes and hour display (seconds was presented on the same
ring as minutes to save on LEDs).

My dad built one from components mostly salvaged from scrap ICL1900 boards TI
74 series ICs with display drivers for the nixie tubes. It was surprising
compact although it ran a bit warm to leave on continuously. I reckon it was
probably in about 1972-3.

I used TTL to convert from the multiplexed output of the clock chip
to my individual LEDs. Linear regulator so it got warm. Everything
wire-wrapped inside a Lexan case that I\'d made to show off it\'s
internals.

Biggest mistake (lack of foresight) was (deliberately) painting the
back of the face black -- for a mirror-like finish. I hadn\'t considered\\how
much of a PITA it would be to keep clean (fingerprints).

A friend urged me to sell it -- completely missing the point that it was
intended as a (unique) gift... for my future in-laws. Some years later,
he bought me a commercial version of a similar design -- no doubt to
drive home the fact that *I* could have been manufacturing these.

My friend - a very keen amateur astronomer had a digital clock custom built to
keep sidereal time when digital LEDs first became available. It even had
internal battery backup so it could be moved. It was a bit power hungry though.
Had it been a couple of years later using CMOS and LCD rather than TTL and LEDs
it would have been a lot easier to use!

LCD displays are boring. I\'ve thought of salvaging those electromechanical
displays that sort of resemble split-flap displays (often used for
sporting events to display times/scores VERY LARGE). But, they\'re
relatively noisey so you wouldn\'t want one indoors.

And, it would just be \"yet another numeric display\". <yawn>

My own sidereal clock is based on a PIC 16877 which has just enough pins to
bare metal drive a 4 segment LCD display and runs off a standard 32768Hz watch
crystal with digital adjustment to get the offset.

In school, I had a motorized mini-spotlight that would project a spot across
the walls/ceiling as if an indoor sun. It was amusing to anyone who thought
about it because it mimicked the Sun\'s motion -- yet paid no respect to
the E-W orientation of its travel (\"why does your Sun set in the North?\")

[Designs should always mess with peoples\' heads -- at different levels.
I have a rotary dial telephone -- that generates touch-tones. Simple
to make. But, a user encountering it wonders: why the hell would
you convert dial-pulses to touch tone instead of just using a pushbutton
keypad?]

These days any mobile phone or tablet has an app to show you the sky, satellite
predictions and sidereal time so it is kind of redundant.

Any \"universal display\" is boring. I recall seeing an app that has digits
melting into their successors (\"Dali clock\"). Make a *physical* display that
does that and I\'ll be impressed! But, writing a bit of code to sequence
an animation is not really inspiring.

It\'s fun to consider different ways of indicating the time that are easy to
read (cuz you don\'t want to have to STUDY a display to sort out what it
is indicating -- you just GLANCE at a typical clock!) and yet cryptic or
aesthetically \"appealing\" in other ways.

If you like interesting time pieces the Corpus Clock in Cambridge UK on King\'s
Parade is well worth seeing. It is a Chronophage with a large scale grasshopper
escapement and a very unusual pendulum motion.

https://www.corpus.cam.ac.uk/about/corpus-clock/introduction-corpus-clock

Mechanical. Beyond my abilities. I\'ve resigned myself to simply *designing*
my Rube Goldberg -- in CAD -- and requiring someone else to do the actual
fabrication. It\'s sort of a defeatist admission but I don\'t want to be
limited to what *I* can fabricate.

There are enough challenges in my \"presentation choices\" that I can feel
proud of the conceptualization, even if I can\'t put in the elbow grease
to fabricate all of the components.

[Ideally, I wouldn\'t want a new homeowner to consider it as \"trash\"
and move to disassemble it.]

https://www.corpus.cam.ac.uk/articles/secrets-corpus-clock

It is truly hypnotic to watch. Keeps perfect time but the pendulum motion is
not a regular amplitude and the display idiosyncratic.

There is a twin/cousin somewhere that was being made for the Chinese market but
the timing of the recession meant that it may not have been completed. It\'s
grasshopper escapement is in the form of a dragon.

It was designed by engineer Dr John Taylor best known as inventor of the
bimetallic kettle switch and various other interesting electromechanical devices.

 

[Mike Coon]

In article <su8k2c$cbn$1@dont-email.me>, blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
says...

It\'s sort of a defeatist admission but I don\'t want to be
limited to what *I* can fabricate.

There are enough challenges in my \"presentation choices\" that I can feel
proud of the conceptualization, even if I can\'t put in the elbow grease
to fabricate all of the components.

I think of that as the approach of an architect...

 

[Don Y]

On 2/12/2022 9:06 AM, Mike Coon wrote:

In article <su8k2c$cbn$1@dont-email.me>, blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
says...
It\'s sort of a defeatist admission but I don\'t want to be
limited to what *I* can fabricate.

There are enough challenges in my \"presentation choices\" that I can feel
proud of the conceptualization, even if I can\'t put in the elbow grease
to fabricate all of the components.

I think of that as the approach of an architect...

Or any other \"designer\"/composer.

But, if that\'s your \"norm\", then you can rationalize never *doing*
anything -- just creating paper. Of course, that\'s the likely
role of a REAL \"architect\" as the resources and skillsets they
would need to erect a building would typically be beyond the
means of an *individual*.

That needn\'t be the case in *all* things!

I\'ve a friend who used to grumble about folks who would *say*
\"I\'m remodeling my home\" or \"I\'m putting on an addition\" or
\"I\'m tuning up my car\"... when, in fact, they were simply WRITING
CHECKS -- and someone ELSE was doing the actual work.

\"Well, of course! That\'s what I *meant*\" (but not what you said)

[Instead, describe these actions as \"I\'m HAVING SOMEONE remodel
my home\" or \"I\'m HAVING SOMEONE put on an addition\"... to draw
attention to the fact that you really aren\'t *doing* anything
beyond deciding that you\'re willing to pay for that activity!
\"I\'ve decided to have my house remodeled...\"]

There\'s an element of pride in being able to say I *did*
this -- instead of \"I paid someone else to do it for me\"
(that is my lament over having to hire-out the fabrication
of the \"Rube Goldberg\") So, the design has to be heads
and shoulders above to minimize that aspect of the \"job\".

 

[Don Y]

On 2/9/2022 10:40 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

On 09/02/2022 15:27, Don Y wrote:
On 2/9/2022 4:21 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

How pink did it get? Could be the paper is reacting to going through the
fuser and so printing a blank page would suffer the same fate.

Only the \"exposed\" side was discolored. It was a diffuse pink (instead of
a bold/solid pink). But, very noticeable. If I left the sheets on a
table, you would notice the discoloration from across the room.

Ask them if you can take a clean sheet away and then try ironing it and if that
doesn\'t work torture it a bit with a heat shrink wrap gun.

I happened to have one from my first \"encounter\" -- I had removed several
sheets from the \"tray\" and manually fed through the sheet feeder option
to see if there was something in the paper path that might apply (the
paper tray being a foot or more below the actual printer)

ISTR you could sometimes get badly washed paper going a sort of pale lemon
yellow when heated if there was too much trace acid like lemon or onion juice
to make the wood pulp fibres discolour.

One of the easier natural invisible inks much safer than cobalt chloride which
is now very much discouraged as a probable carcinogen.

I\'ve not heard of one that turns paper magenta on heat exposure but it is just
possible.

I inquired as to the printer\'s status:

\"Oh, it\'s fixed!\"

\"Yes, but what was the PROBLEM?\"

\"I don\'t know\" (lack of curiosity is underwhelming!)

\"Did they *do* anything to the printer? Or, just change the paper?\"

\"Oh, yes, they did something to the printer! It had this problem
once before\"

(and you STILL weren\'t sufficiently curious to inquire as to the
CAUSE????!)

 

[Mike Coon]

In article <su8nhj$35t$1@dont-email.me>, blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
says...

On 2/12/2022 9:06 AM, Mike Coon wrote:
In article <su8k2c$cbn$1@dont-email.me>, blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
says...
It\'s sort of a defeatist admission but I don\'t want to be
limited to what *I* can fabricate.

There are enough challenges in my \"presentation choices\" that I can feel
proud of the conceptualization, even if I can\'t put in the elbow grease
to fabricate all of the components.

I think of that as the approach of an architect...

Or any other \"designer\"/composer.

But, if that\'s your \"norm\", then you can rationalize never *doing*
anything -- just creating paper. Of course, that\'s the likely
role of a REAL \"architect\" as the resources and skillsets they
would need to erect a building would typically be beyond the
means of an *individual*.

That needn\'t be the case in *all* things!

I\'ve a friend who used to grumble about folks who would *say*
\"I\'m remodeling my home\" or \"I\'m putting on an addition\" or
\"I\'m tuning up my car\"... when, in fact, they were simply WRITING
CHECKS -- and someone ELSE was doing the actual work.

\"Well, of course! That\'s what I *meant*\" (but not what you said)

[Instead, describe these actions as \"I\'m HAVING SOMEONE remodel
my home\" or \"I\'m HAVING SOMEONE put on an addition\"... to draw
attention to the fact that you really aren\'t *doing* anything
beyond deciding that you\'re willing to pay for that activity!
\"I\'ve decided to have my house remodeled...\"]

There\'s an element of pride in being able to say I *did*
this -- instead of \"I paid someone else to do it for me\"
(that is my lament over having to hire-out the fabrication
of the \"Rube Goldberg\") So, the design has to be heads
and shoulders above to minimize that aspect of the \"job\".

The ultimate is probably a king who \"built\" a pyramid or a palace!

 

[Don Y]

On 2/12/2022 3:00 PM, Mike Coon wrote:

There\'s an element of pride in being able to say I *did*
this -- instead of \"I paid someone else to do it for me\"
(that is my lament over having to hire-out the fabrication
of the \"Rube Goldberg\") So, the design has to be heads
and shoulders above to minimize that aspect of the \"job\".

The ultimate is probably a king who \"built\" a pyramid or a palace!

I\'ve found it pretty common in industry, too. Tales from friends
whose boss\'s claimed to have \"done\" something -- that, in fact,
*they* did. Always apparent when the boss is tasked with
explaining the solution and dons the deer-in-headlights look.

Oooops!

 

[Mike Coon]

In article <su1f7f$pk9$1@dont-email.me>, blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
says...

On 2/9/2022 10:40 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 09/02/2022 15:27, Don Y wrote:
On 2/9/2022 4:21 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

How pink did it get? Could be the paper is reacting to going through the
fuser and so printing a blank page would suffer the same fate.

Only the \"exposed\" side was discolored. It was a diffuse pink (instead of
a bold/solid pink). But, very noticeable. If I left the sheets on a
table, you would notice the discoloration from across the room.

Ask them if you can take a clean sheet away and then try ironing it and if that
doesn\'t work torture it a bit with a heat shrink wrap gun.

I happened to have one from my first \"encounter\" -- I had removed several
sheets from the \"tray\" and manually fed through the sheet feeder option
to see if there was something in the paper path that might apply (the
paper tray being a foot or more below the actual printer)

ISTR you could sometimes get badly washed paper going a sort of pale lemon
yellow when heated if there was too much trace acid like lemon or onion juice
to make the wood pulp fibres discolour.

One of the easier natural invisible inks much safer than cobalt chloride which
is now very much discouraged as a probable carcinogen.

I\'ve not heard of one that turns paper magenta on heat exposure but it is just
possible.

I inquired as to the printer\'s status:

\"Oh, it\'s fixed!\"

\"Yes, but what was the PROBLEM?\"

\"I don\'t know\" (lack of curiosity is underwhelming!)

\"Did they *do* anything to the printer? Or, just change the paper?\"

\"Oh, yes, they did something to the printer! It had this problem
once before\"

(and you STILL weren\'t sufficiently curious to inquire as to the
CAUSE????!)

Given that most tech is indistinguishable from magic for most of the
population, perhaps they dare not enquire too deeply for fear the
witches will counter-attack...

 

[Don Y]

On 2/10/2022 2:39 AM, Mike Coon wrote:

In article <su1f7f$pk9$1@dont-email.me>, blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
says...

On 2/9/2022 10:40 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 09/02/2022 15:27, Don Y wrote:
On 2/9/2022 4:21 AM, Martin Brown wrote:

How pink did it get? Could be the paper is reacting to going through the
fuser and so printing a blank page would suffer the same fate.

Only the \"exposed\" side was discolored. It was a diffuse pink (instead of
a bold/solid pink). But, very noticeable. If I left the sheets on a
table, you would notice the discoloration from across the room.

Ask them if you can take a clean sheet away and then try ironing it and if that
doesn\'t work torture it a bit with a heat shrink wrap gun.

I happened to have one from my first \"encounter\" -- I had removed several
sheets from the \"tray\" and manually fed through the sheet feeder option
to see if there was something in the paper path that might apply (the
paper tray being a foot or more below the actual printer)

ISTR you could sometimes get badly washed paper going a sort of pale lemon
yellow when heated if there was too much trace acid like lemon or onion juice
to make the wood pulp fibres discolour.

One of the easier natural invisible inks much safer than cobalt chloride which
is now very much discouraged as a probable carcinogen.

I\'ve not heard of one that turns paper magenta on heat exposure but it is just
possible.

I inquired as to the printer\'s status:

\"Oh, it\'s fixed!\"

\"Yes, but what was the PROBLEM?\"

\"I don\'t know\" (lack of curiosity is underwhelming!)

\"Did they *do* anything to the printer? Or, just change the paper?\"

\"Oh, yes, they did something to the printer! It had this problem
once before\"

(and you STILL weren\'t sufficiently curious to inquire as to the
CAUSE????!)

Given that most tech is indistinguishable from magic for most of the
population, perhaps they dare not enquire too deeply for fear the
witches will counter-attack...

I think they are just profoundly incurious. I would think -- given that
this was a \"repeat performance\" -- that they would at least want to latch
onto some \"buzzwords\" so the NEXT time it happened they could tell the
technician: \"Last time it was the frodinbinger that needed to be replaced!\"

I find that non-engineers tend to be uninterested in \"details\"... esp
those of a technical nature!

Neighbor had pneumatic suspension on his vehicle repaired -- to the
tune of ~$4K. On hearing that, my reaction: \"Wow! What was involved?\"

He just shrugged: \"All I know is it cost me $4000!\"