ping: John Larkin. breadboard technique

S

sea moss

Guest
I have seen Mr. Larkin post a few example photos of breadboards using copper-plated FR4 cut with a dremel tool. I'm thinking about trying this myself.

I am in the habit of doing deadbug-style using 28 or 30 AWG and taping the whole thing to a bare piece of FR4 as I go:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ief88wkyywfb2w9/deadbug_example_SOT23.JPG?dl=0

Soldering SOT23 and SC70 parts this way requires some finesse, and some days I'm quicker at it than others... the above example probably took me around 2 hours. Seems like I should be faster than that.

John, what are your tips/tricks for doing the dremel technique?

Does anyone else here have any good breadboard techniques I should be aware of?
 
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 19:06:29 -0800 (PST), sea moss
<danluster81@gmail.com> wrote:

I have seen Mr. Larkin post a few example photos of breadboards using copper-plated FR4 cut with a dremel tool. I'm thinking about trying this myself.

I am in the habit of doing deadbug-style using 28 or 30 AWG and taping the whole thing to a bare piece of FR4 as I go:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ief88wkyywfb2w9/deadbug_example_SOT23.JPG?dl=0

Soldering SOT23 and SC70 parts this way requires some finesse, and some days I'm quicker at it than others... the above example probably took me around 2 hours. Seems like I should be faster than that.

John, what are your tips/tricks for doing the dremel technique?

Does anyone else here have any good breadboard techniques I should be aware of?
Click to expand...

Use surface-mount adapters for most parts. Stick them down with
double-stick foam tape.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9av93ul8148zdjm/Z356_SN2.JPG?raw=1


I use 0.062 thick 1 oz copperclad FR4. 2 oz is horrible to Dremel. I
really like it to be gold plated, so it looks great, doesn't tarnish,
and solders beautifully. I think you can get some on ebay or Amazon. I
have a PCB house plate me a couple square feet every year or so. Shine
it up with SoftScrub and it looks like jewelry.

Get a variable-speed Dremel and some rounded-end carbide dental burrs.
Cheap on ebay.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0d5vvnqkh1bkugy/Burr_1.JPG?raw=1


I whiteboard my schematic and circuit layout then draw lines on the
copperclad with a straightedge and a Sharpie, then cut the lines with
the Dremel. Trim with an x-acto. It takes a bit of practise to get
good. I put the board flat on the bench, rest my wrist on the bench,
and cut freehand under a Mantis magnifier.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yexxaimox2t1mjm/AADEXdO4zJYlWBeVe66r_xRGa?dl=0

Leave the bottom mostly ground plane. Connect topside ground islands
with wire vias or 2-56 screws and nuts, or edge-launch connectors. The
screws are good places to clip on power supplies and scope probe
grounds. (Cut a circle out of the back side to not short non-ground
things out! I keep forgetting to do that.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ezooll91y4wqzx6/DCBB_2.JPG?raw=1

Really fast stuff has to be matched impedance, no sockets or adapters.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1


I keep the breadboards basically forever. I assign a drawing number to
each one and document it (mostly photos) and test results. That's kept
on a shared "protos" folder on a server. Some are actually PCB
layouts. Other people can log a drawing number and post their stuff
too. It's a great long-term resource.

Tomorrow I plan to test a tiny LVDS line receiver for some unspecified
things.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"
 
Excellent. Thanks for the details. I'll give it a go and report back. This should work particularly well for power circuits, since I can play around with the amount of copper for heat sinking.
 
On 20/02/20 04:09, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Is that an HP32S calculator? If so I like your taste :)

I have a couple, but they have a gold embossed "50" in
the HP font, since I bought them in '89 and HP was
founded in '39.
 
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 11:10:06 PM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 19:06:29 -0800 (PST), sea moss
danluster81@gmail.com> wrote:

I have seen Mr. Larkin post a few example photos of breadboards using copper-plated FR4 cut with a dremel tool. I'm thinking about trying this myself.

I am in the habit of doing deadbug-style using 28 or 30 AWG and taping the whole thing to a bare piece of FR4 as I go:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ief88wkyywfb2w9/deadbug_example_SOT23.JPG?dl=0

Soldering SOT23 and SC70 parts this way requires some finesse, and some days I'm quicker at it than others... the above example probably took me around 2 hours. Seems like I should be faster than that.

John, what are your tips/tricks for doing the dremel technique?

Does anyone else here have any good breadboard techniques I should be aware of?

Use surface-mount adapters for most parts. Stick them down with
double-stick foam tape.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9av93ul8148zdjm/Z356_SN2.JPG?raw=1


I use 0.062 thick 1 oz copperclad FR4. 2 oz is horrible to Dremel. I
really like it to be gold plated, so it looks great, doesn't tarnish,
and solders beautifully. I think you can get some on ebay or Amazon. I
have a PCB house plate me a couple square feet every year or so. Shine
it up with SoftScrub and it looks like jewelry.

Get a variable-speed Dremel and some rounded-end carbide dental burrs.
Cheap on ebay.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0d5vvnqkh1bkugy/Burr_1.JPG?raw=1


I whiteboard my schematic and circuit layout then draw lines on the
copperclad with a straightedge and a Sharpie, then cut the lines with
the Dremel. Trim with an x-acto. It takes a bit of practise to get
good. I put the board flat on the bench, rest my wrist on the bench,
and cut freehand under a Mantis magnifier.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yexxaimox2t1mjm/AADEXdO4zJYlWBeVe66r_xRGa?dl=0

Leave the bottom mostly ground plane. Connect topside ground islands
with wire vias or 2-56 screws and nuts, or edge-launch connectors. The
screws are good places to clip on power supplies and scope probe
grounds. (Cut a circle out of the back side to not short non-ground
things out! I keep forgetting to do that.)
Click to expand...

Oh good, I was going to ask what you did with the ground plane on the
back.

George H.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ezooll91y4wqzx6/DCBB_2.JPG?raw=1

Really fast stuff has to be matched impedance, no sockets or adapters.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1


I keep the breadboards basically forever. I assign a drawing number to
each one and document it (mostly photos) and test results. That's kept
on a shared "protos" folder on a server. Some are actually PCB
layouts. Other people can log a drawing number and post their stuff
too. It's a great long-term resource.

Tomorrow I plan to test a tiny LVDS line receiver for some unspecified
things.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"
Click to expand...
 
On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 07:47:18 +0000, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 20/02/20 04:09, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

Is that an HP32S calculator? If so I like your taste :)

I have a couple, but they have a gold embossed "50" in
the HP font, since I bought them in '89 and HP was
founded in '39.
Click to expand...

Yes, I have several. I also have a few working and non-working HP35's,
which I don't use.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"
 
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 20:58:32 -0800 (PST), sea moss
<danluster81@gmail.com> wrote:

>Excellent. Thanks for the details. I'll give it a go and report back. This should work particularly well for power circuits, since I can play around with the amount of copper for heat sinking.

Here's a 200 amp pulser, Manhattan style.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5nlhqy7c8mt2xv3/LDP2.JPG?raw=1


Most breadboards start with a bag of parts and grow like a yard full
of weeds. One nice thing about the Dremel style is that it forces you
to plan. The stop, think thing again.

A small SOT89 or SOT223 fet can dissipate maybe 3 watts on a couple of
square inches of 1 oz copper. You could add heat sinking in
interesting ways. I don't have analytical tools for thermal analysis,
so I experiment a lot.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n47g037t082zviq/J2_Box_Tempco.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jxmenv4q7bbddg8/J2_conduction.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0pr4hq6euhjn4yr/DSC02169.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oqavm6z7xmbrxaj/DN2530.JPG?raw=1







--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"
 
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 10:06:35 PM UTC-5, sea moss wrote:
I have seen Mr. Larkin post a few example photos of breadboards using copper-plated FR4 cut with a dremel tool. I'm thinking about trying this myself.

I am in the habit of doing deadbug-style using 28 or 30 AWG and taping the whole thing to a bare piece of FR4 as I go:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ief88wkyywfb2w9/deadbug_example_SOT23.JPG?dl=0

Soldering SOT23 and SC70 parts this way requires some finesse, and some days I'm quicker at it than others... the above example probably took me around 2 hours. Seems like I should be faster than that.

John, what are your tips/tricks for doing the dremel technique?

Does anyone else here have any good breadboard techniques I should be aware of?
Click to expand...

Sea moss, looking at your proto you seem to be missing the
first point of copper clad. And that is to having all your grounds
tacked to the copper on the board.. the copper clad is your
ground plane, and you (I) build on top of that.

John L's stuff is pretty, but he doesn't show you the ground plane on
the bottom (he doesn't show it, because we all know it's there.)

George H.
 
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 10:06:35 PM UTC-5, sea moss wrote:
I have seen Mr. Larkin post a few example photos of breadboards using copper-plated FR4 cut with a dremel tool. I'm thinking about trying this myself.

I am in the habit of doing deadbug-style using 28 or 30 AWG and taping the whole thing to a bare piece of FR4 as I go:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ief88wkyywfb2w9/deadbug_example_SOT23.JPG?dl=0

Soldering SOT23 and SC70 parts this way requires some finesse, and some days I'm quicker at it than others... the above example probably took me around 2 hours. Seems like I should be faster than that.

John, what are your tips/tricks for doing the dremel technique?

Does anyone else here have any good breadboard techniques I should be aware of?
Click to expand...

I bought a couple of these boards, but I haven't used them yet:

Double-Sided-Universal-PCB-Proto-Prototype-Perf-Board-2-54-mm-20-30-20-x-30-cm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/113577313133
 
On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 10:48:59 AM UTC-5, George Herold wrote:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 10:06:35 PM UTC-5, sea moss wrote:
I have seen Mr. Larkin post a few example photos of breadboards using copper-plated FR4 cut with a dremel tool. I'm thinking about trying this myself.

I am in the habit of doing deadbug-style using 28 or 30 AWG and taping the whole thing to a bare piece of FR4 as I go:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ief88wkyywfb2w9/deadbug_example_SOT23.JPG?dl=0

Soldering SOT23 and SC70 parts this way requires some finesse, and some days I'm quicker at it than others... the above example probably took me around 2 hours. Seems like I should be faster than that.

John, what are your tips/tricks for doing the dremel technique?

Does anyone else here have any good breadboard techniques I should be aware of?

Sea moss, looking at your proto you seem to be missing the
first point of copper clad. And that is to having all your grounds
tacked to the copper on the board.. the copper clad is your
ground plane, and you (I) build on top of that.

John L's stuff is pretty, but he doesn't show you the ground plane on
the bottom (he doesn't show it, because we all know it's there.)

George H.
Click to expand...

I finally got drop box to take this...
My proto.. kinda the organic type thing JL was talking about.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uf9liifgozqp471/I-src.jpg?dl=0

GH
 
On 2/20/20 10:34 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 20:58:32 -0800 (PST), sea moss
danluster81@gmail.com> wrote:

Excellent. Thanks for the details. I'll give it a go and report back. This should work particularly well for power circuits, since I can play around with the amount of copper for heat sinking.

Here's a 200 amp pulser, Manhattan style.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5nlhqy7c8mt2xv3/LDP2.JPG?raw=1


Most breadboards start with a bag of parts and grow like a yard full
of weeds. One nice thing about the Dremel style is that it forces you
to plan. The stop, think thing again.

A small SOT89 or SOT223 fet can dissipate maybe 3 watts on a couple of
square inches of 1 oz copper. You could add heat sinking in
interesting ways. I don't have analytical tools for thermal analysis,
so I experiment a lot.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n47g037t082zviq/J2_Box_Tempco.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jxmenv4q7bbddg8/J2_conduction.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0pr4hq6euhjn4yr/DSC02169.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oqavm6z7xmbrxaj/DN2530.JPG?raw=1
Click to expand...

How are those lil "risers" secured? Thermal epoxy?
 
On 2/20/20 12:38 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 2/20/20 10:34 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 20:58:32 -0800 (PST), sea moss
danluster81@gmail.com> wrote:

Excellent.  Thanks for the details.  I'll give it a go and report
back.  This should work particularly well for power circuits, since I
can play around with the amount of copper for heat sinking.

Here's a 200 amp pulser, Manhattan style.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5nlhqy7c8mt2xv3/LDP2.JPG?raw=1


Most breadboards start with a bag of parts and grow like a yard full
of weeds. One nice thing about the Dremel style is that it forces you
to plan. The stop, think thing again.

A small SOT89 or SOT223 fet can dissipate maybe 3 watts on a couple of
square inches of 1 oz copper. You could add heat sinking in
interesting ways. I don't have analytical tools for thermal analysis,
so I experiment a lot.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n47g037t082zviq/J2_Box_Tempco.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jxmenv4q7bbddg8/J2_conduction.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0pr4hq6euhjn4yr/DSC02169.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oqavm6z7xmbrxaj/DN2530.JPG?raw=1



How are those lil "risers" secured? Thermal epoxy?
Click to expand...

Or just solder blob?
 
On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 12:38:14 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 2/20/20 10:34 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 20:58:32 -0800 (PST), sea moss
danluster81@gmail.com> wrote:

Excellent. Thanks for the details. I'll give it a go and report back. This should work particularly well for power circuits, since I can play around with the amount of copper for heat sinking.

Here's a 200 amp pulser, Manhattan style.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5nlhqy7c8mt2xv3/LDP2.JPG?raw=1


Most breadboards start with a bag of parts and grow like a yard full
of weeds. One nice thing about the Dremel style is that it forces you
to plan. The stop, think thing again.

A small SOT89 or SOT223 fet can dissipate maybe 3 watts on a couple of
square inches of 1 oz copper. You could add heat sinking in
interesting ways. I don't have analytical tools for thermal analysis,
so I experiment a lot.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n47g037t082zviq/J2_Box_Tempco.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jxmenv4q7bbddg8/J2_conduction.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0pr4hq6euhjn4yr/DSC02169.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oqavm6z7xmbrxaj/DN2530.JPG?raw=1



How are those lil "risers" secured? Thermal epoxy?
Click to expand...

Not sure what you are referring to.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
On 2/20/20 1:22 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 12:38:14 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 2/20/20 10:34 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 20:58:32 -0800 (PST), sea moss
danluster81@gmail.com> wrote:

Excellent. Thanks for the details. I'll give it a go and report back. This should work particularly well for power circuits, since I can play around with the amount of copper for heat sinking.

Here's a 200 amp pulser, Manhattan style.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5nlhqy7c8mt2xv3/LDP2.JPG?raw=1


Most breadboards start with a bag of parts and grow like a yard full
of weeds. One nice thing about the Dremel style is that it forces you
to plan. The stop, think thing again.

A small SOT89 or SOT223 fet can dissipate maybe 3 watts on a couple of
square inches of 1 oz copper. You could add heat sinking in
interesting ways. I don't have analytical tools for thermal analysis,
so I experiment a lot.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n47g037t082zviq/J2_Box_Tempco.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jxmenv4q7bbddg8/J2_conduction.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0pr4hq6euhjn4yr/DSC02169.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oqavm6z7xmbrxaj/DN2530.JPG?raw=1



How are those lil "risers" secured? Thermal epoxy?

Not sure what you are referring to.
Click to expand...

200 amp pulser - are those "slab" risers solid copper and all soldered
to the ground plane, or are they one-sided copper-clad and glued on?

Do the e.g. d-paks only thermal transfer to the slab or are they
thermally bonded to the whole plane somehow I guess is what I'm asking.
 
On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 14:28:52 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 2/20/20 1:22 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 12:38:14 -0500, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 2/20/20 10:34 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 20:58:32 -0800 (PST), sea moss
danluster81@gmail.com> wrote:

Excellent. Thanks for the details. I'll give it a go and report back. This should work particularly well for power circuits, since I can play around with the amount of copper for heat sinking.

Here's a 200 amp pulser, Manhattan style.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5nlhqy7c8mt2xv3/LDP2.JPG?raw=1


Most breadboards start with a bag of parts and grow like a yard full
of weeds. One nice thing about the Dremel style is that it forces you
to plan. The stop, think thing again.

A small SOT89 or SOT223 fet can dissipate maybe 3 watts on a couple of
square inches of 1 oz copper. You could add heat sinking in
interesting ways. I don't have analytical tools for thermal analysis,
so I experiment a lot.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n47g037t082zviq/J2_Box_Tempco.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jxmenv4q7bbddg8/J2_conduction.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0pr4hq6euhjn4yr/DSC02169.JPG?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oqavm6z7xmbrxaj/DN2530.JPG?raw=1



How are those lil "risers" secured? Thermal epoxy?

Not sure what you are referring to.


200 amp pulser - are those "slab" risers solid copper and all soldered
to the ground plane, or are they one-sided copper-clad and glued on?
Click to expand...

Those are bits of double-sided copperclad, probably super-glued to the
main board. I ran this at low pulse rates for testing, so didn't need
serious heat sinking.

For serious heat sinking, you can hang a TO- or Dpak off the edge of
the board, onto a metal plate or block.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aknsdj4lhgdts2k/Z424B_bench.jpg?raw=1

An 0.062" thick aluminum nitride insulator works great.

It's good to bolt these little boards to something heavy anyhow.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top