piezo transducer; polarity; current

A

Adam Funk

Guest
I've been playing with a piezo transducer in 556 circuits (at higher
frequencies than with LEDs). The one I'm using is KPE-163, and the
specification says:

Rated Voltage (Vp-p) Max 30
Current Consumption (mA) Max. 10 @10Vp-p, square wave, 4.8Hz

and it has two leads: one black and one red.


I was wondering whether it would work in a double-555 multivibrator
(powered by a 9V battery) described as having push-pull output, and it
does (I think I had some resistance in series just to be careful). So
I wondered whether the implied polarity in the lead colors was
significant.

AFAICT from trying it turned both ways in a single-555 multivibrator
(between the ground and 9V square wave output), I suspect it isn't
actually polarized. Comments?

Also, does the specification mean that the actual current when you
apply 10Vp-p voltage is 10 mA, so (unlike LEDs, for example) it
doesn't need any protective series resistance at that voltage?


(I have 5 of these and they were cheap, so I don't mind burning a
couple out for educational purposes.)


--
When you look at a photograph of the earth you don't see any
borders. That realization is where our hope as a planet lies.
[Graham Nash]
 
Adam Funk wrote:
I've been playing with a piezo transducer in 556 circuits (at higher
frequencies than with LEDs). The one I'm using is KPE-163, and the
specification says:

Rated Voltage (Vp-p) Max 30
Current Consumption (mA) Max. 10 @10Vp-p, square wave, 4.8Hz

and it has two leads: one black and one red.

I was wondering whether it would work in a double-555 multivibrator
(powered by a 9V battery) described as having push-pull output, and it
does (I think I had some resistance in series just to be careful). So
I wondered whether the implied polarity in the lead colors was
significant.

AFAICT from trying it turned both ways in a single-555 multivibrator
(between the ground and 9V square wave output), I suspect it isn't
actually polarized. Comments?

Also, does the specification mean that the actual current when you
apply 10Vp-p voltage is 10 mA, so (unlike LEDs, for example) it
doesn't need any protective series resistance at that voltage?

(I have 5 of these and they were cheap, so I don't mind burning a
couple out for educational purposes.)

--
When you look at a photograph of the earth you don't see any
borders. That realization is where our hope as a planet lies.
[Graham Nash]
Click to expand...
Piezo ceramics are poled, i.e. formed at high temperature with a large
bias voltage. That's the piezoelectric/pyroelectric equivalent of
rubbing a magnet against a screwdriver to magnetize it.

Leaving them with a DC bias in the direction opposite to their poling
can eventually depole them, so many of them have polarity marked.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
 
"Adam Funk"
I've been playing with a piezo transducer in 556 circuits (at higher
frequencies than with LEDs). The one I'm using is KPE-163, and the
specification says:
Click to expand...
** That is a piezo buzzer - it has an electronic circuit that makes the
beep.


Rated Voltage (Vp-p) Max 30
Current Consumption (mA) Max. 10 @10Vp-p, square wave, 4.8Hz

and it has two leads: one black and one red.
Click to expand...

** Beep, beep beep beep .....
 
On 2012-03-21, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
I've been playing with a piezo transducer in 556 circuits (at higher
frequencies than with LEDs). The one I'm using is KPE-163, and the
specification says:

Rated Voltage (Vp-p) Max 30
Current Consumption (mA) Max. 10 @10Vp-p, square wave, 4.8Hz
Click to expand...
is it this one?
http://www.datasheets.org.uk/indexdl/Datasheet-077/DSAE0052603.pdf

and it has two leads: one black and one red.

I was wondering whether it would work in a double-555 multivibrator
(powered by a 9V battery) described as having push-pull output, and it
does (I think I had some resistance in series just to be careful). So
I wondered whether the implied polarity in the lead colors was
significant.
Click to expand...
another reason to colour the leads is that if you have two and want the
both to be in phase you can match the leads up

AFAICT from trying it turned both ways in a single-555 multivibrator
(between the ground and 9V square wave output), I suspect it isn't
actually polarized. Comments?
Click to expand...
Phil H says thet y can be damaged by prolonged exposue to reverse
polarity. Phil A seems to have the part confused with a different part.

Also, does the specification mean that the actual current when you
apply 10Vp-p voltage is 10 mA, so (unlike LEDs, for example) it
doesn't need any protective series resistance at that voltage?
Click to expand...
that's right. it doesn't need any. these devices behave like lossy
capacitors each time they get a voltage change they will only accept a
small amount of charge

(I have 5 of these and they were cheap, so I don't mind burning a
couple out for educational purposes.)
Click to expand...
with the 556 you can make a louder noise by using a bridged
configuration:

. . . . . . . .
.O . . .
[. . . .]--+
. . |
. . |
+--------[. .] |
C1 | . . |
|| | . . |
+--||--+ [. 556 .]-----+
| || | . . | |
| | . . | |
| +-----------[. .] | |
| | | . . | |
| | +-[R1]-+ . . | +-----
| | | +-[. .]--+ |
| | | | . . | | to piezo
| | | | . . | |
| | +------|-[. .]-----------
| | | . . | |
| | | . . | |
+---------------[. .]--|--+
| | | . . | |
| | | . . . . . . . . | |
| | | | |
| | +--------------------|--+
| | |
o o------------------------------+
- +
9V battery

or you can produce a varying tone by driving the CV pin
of the cecond astable from the first.

+---------------------------------.
| |
|+ . . . . . . . . |
===== .O . . . |
| C1 [. . . .]---+ |
| . . | |
| . . | |
+--------[. .] | |
| . . | |
| . . | |
| [. 556 .]-----+ |
| . . | | |
| . . | | |
+-----------[. .]--------+
| | . . | |
| | . . | |
| +--[R1]--[. .]--+ |
| | . . | |
| | . . | |
| +--------[. .]--------------+
| . . | | |
| . . | | |
+---------------[. .]--|--+-+-[R2]-+--- +
| | . . | |
| | . . . . . . . . | ===== to piezo
| | | C2 |
| +------------------------------+ +-----------
| | |
+---------------------------------------+
| |
o o
- +
9V battery

R1 47K
C1 10uF
R2 3.3K
C2 10nF

I expect that will make a horrible racket.


--
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---
 
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 21:20:19 +0000, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

I've been playing with a piezo transducer in 556 circuits (at higher
frequencies than with LEDs). The one I'm using is KPE-163, and the
specification says:

Rated Voltage (Vp-p) Max 30
Current Consumption (mA) Max. 10 @10Vp-p, square wave, 4.8Hz

and it has two leads: one black and one red.


I was wondering whether it would work in a double-555 multivibrator
(powered by a 9V battery) described as having push-pull output, and it
does (I think I had some resistance in series just to be careful). So
I wondered whether the implied polarity in the lead colors was
significant.

AFAICT from trying it turned both ways in a single-555 multivibrator
(between the ground and 9V square wave output), I suspect it isn't
actually polarized. Comments?
Click to expand...
It's a passive ceramic on metal transducer and it's "poled" rather
than polarized.

---
http://www.morganelectroceramics.com/resources/piezo-ceramic-tutorials/piezoelectric-actions/
---

However, it doesn't usually matter in an audio application because
what happens is that if you connect + to red and - to black the piezo
element will flex in one direction, while if you reverse the polarity
it'll flex in the opposite direction.
---

Also, does the specification mean that the actual current when you
apply 10Vp-p voltage is 10 mA, so (unlike LEDs, for example) it
doesn't need any protective series resistance at that voltage?
Click to expand...
---
Generally, yes.
---

(I have 5 of these and they were cheap, so I don't mind burning a
couple out for educational purposes.)
Click to expand...
---
OK. :)

--
JF
 
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:14:26 +1100, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

"Adam Funk"

I've been playing with a piezo transducer in 556 circuits (at higher
frequencies than with LEDs). The one I'm using is KPE-163, and the
specification says:

** That is a piezo buzzer - it has an electronic circuit that makes the
beep.
Click to expand...
---
http://www.kingstate.com.tw/eng/Products/Products/ProductItem/tabid/186/rtab/187/Default.aspx?ItemId=22

--
JF
 
"John Fields"
"Phil Allison"
"Adam Funk"

I've been playing with a piezo transducer in 556 circuits (at higher
frequencies than with LEDs). The one I'm using is KPE-163, and the
specification says:

** That is a piezo buzzer - it has an electronic circuit that makes the
beep.

---
http://www.kingstate.com.tw/eng/Products/Products/ProductItem/tabid/186/rtab/187/Default.aspx?ItemId=22
Click to expand...

** See the OP's post.

" Current Consumption (mA) Max. 10 @10Vp-p, square wave, 4.8Hz "

That error PLUS the pic and description fitted an electronic buzzer.




..... Phil
 
On 2012-03-22, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2012-03-21, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
I've been playing with a piezo transducer in 556 circuits (at higher
frequencies than with LEDs). The one I'm using is KPE-163, and the
specification says:

Rated Voltage (Vp-p) Max 30
Current Consumption (mA) Max. 10 @10Vp-p, square wave, 4.8Hz

is it this one?
http://www.datasheets.org.uk/indexdl/Datasheet-077/DSAE0052603.pdf
Click to expand...
I think so. The data sheet I have is only in English and just has the
information corresponding to parts B, C, & D in that example.

and it has two leads: one black and one red.

I was wondering whether it would work in a double-555 multivibrator
(powered by a 9V battery) described as having push-pull output, and it
does (I think I had some resistance in series just to be careful). So
I wondered whether the implied polarity in the lead colors was
significant.

another reason to colour the leads is that if you have two and want the
both to be in phase you can match the leads up
Click to expand...
Oh, that's given me an interesting idea to play with.


Thanks for the other information and suggestions!


--
Civilization is a race between catastrophe and education.
[H G Wells]
 
On 2012-03-22, John Fields wrote:

It's a passive ceramic on metal transducer and it's "poled" rather
than polarized.

---
http://www.morganelectroceramics.com/resources/piezo-ceramic-tutorials/piezoelectric-actions/
---

However, it doesn't usually matter in an audio application because
what happens is that if you connect + to red and - to black the piezo
element will flex in one direction, while if you reverse the polarity
it'll flex in the opposite direction.
---

Also, does the specification mean that the actual current when you
apply 10Vp-p voltage is 10 mA, so (unlike LEDs, for example) it
doesn't need any protective series resistance at that voltage?

---
Generally, yes.
---
Click to expand...
Interesting, thanks.


--
Nam Sibbyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla
pendere, et cum illi pueri dicerent: beable beable beable; respondebat
illa: doidy doidy doidy. [plorkwort]
 
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:55:25 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Adam Funk wrote:

I've been playing with a piezo transducer in 556 circuits (at higher
frequencies than with LEDs). The one I'm using is KPE-163, and the
specification says:

Rated Voltage (Vp-p) Max 30
Current Consumption (mA) Max. 10 @10Vp-p, square wave, 4.8Hz

and it has two leads: one black and one red.

I was wondering whether it would work in a double-555 multivibrator
(powered by a 9V battery) described as having push-pull output, and it
does (I think I had some resistance in series just to be careful). So
I wondered whether the implied polarity in the lead colors was
significant.

AFAICT from trying it turned both ways in a single-555 multivibrator
(between the ground and 9V square wave output), I suspect it isn't
actually polarized. Comments?

Also, does the specification mean that the actual current when you
apply 10Vp-p voltage is 10 mA, so (unlike LEDs, for example) it doesn't
need any protective series resistance at that voltage?

(I have 5 of these and they were cheap, so I don't mind burning a
couple out for educational purposes.)

--
When you look at a photograph of the earth you don't see any borders.
That realization is where our hope as a planet lies.
[Graham Nash]

Piezo ceramics are poled, i.e. formed at high temperature with a large
bias voltage. That's the piezoelectric/pyroelectric equivalent of
rubbing a magnet against a screwdriver to magnetize it.

Leaving them with a DC bias in the direction opposite to their poling
can eventually depole them, so many of them have polarity marked.
Click to expand...
The piezo stages that I worked with were rated for about ten times more
voltage in the + direction than - -- it was something like +200, -30, but
I can't remember back that far to know the specific voltages.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com
 
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:33:38 +0000, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

On 2012-03-22, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2012-03-21, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
I've been playing with a piezo transducer in 556 circuits (at higher
frequencies than with LEDs). The one I'm using is KPE-163, and the
specification says:

Rated Voltage (Vp-p) Max 30
Current Consumption (mA) Max. 10 @10Vp-p, square wave, 4.8Hz

is it this one?
http://www.datasheets.org.uk/indexdl/Datasheet-077/DSAE0052603.pdf

I think so. The data sheet I have is only in English and just has the
information corresponding to parts B, C, & D in that example.
Click to expand...
---
This shows their line of piezo active and passive devices:

http://www.kingstate.com.tw/eng/Products/Products/SubCatalogType/tabid/185/CatSubTypeId/21/rtab/184/Default.aspx

and this the KPEG163, which I believe is the device you have:

http://www.kingstate.com.tw/eng/Products/Products/ProductItem/tabid/186/rtab/185/Default.aspx?ItemId=22

--
JF
 
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:54:44 +1100, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

"John Fields"
"Phil Allison"
"Adam Funk"

I've been playing with a piezo transducer in 556 circuits (at higher
frequencies than with LEDs). The one I'm using is KPE-163, and the
specification says:

** That is a piezo buzzer - it has an electronic circuit that makes the
beep.

---
http://www.kingstate.com.tw/eng/Products/Products/ProductItem/tabid/186/rtab/187/Default.aspx?ItemId=22



** See the OP's post.

" Current Consumption (mA) Max. 10 @10Vp-p, square wave, 4.8Hz "

That error PLUS the pic and description fitted an electronic buzzer.
Click to expand...
---
I disagree since, from the link above, an electrostatic capacitance
spec. would only be meaningful for a device with a passive piezo
transducer, and for an electronic buzzer the frequency response would
be pretty close to a single line at 4.8kHz.

--
JF
 
On 2012-03-22, John Fields wrote:

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:33:38 +0000, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com
wrote:

On 2012-03-22, Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2012-03-21, Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote:
I've been playing with a piezo transducer in 556 circuits (at higher
frequencies than with LEDs). The one I'm using is KPE-163, and the
specification says:

Rated Voltage (Vp-p) Max 30
Current Consumption (mA) Max. 10 @10Vp-p, square wave, 4.8Hz

is it this one?
http://www.datasheets.org.uk/indexdl/Datasheet-077/DSAE0052603.pdf

I think so. The data sheet I have is only in English and just has the
information corresponding to parts B, C, & D in that example.

---
This shows their line of piezo active and passive devices:

http://www.kingstate.com.tw/eng/Products/Products/SubCatalogType/tabid/185/CatSubTypeId/21/rtab/184/Default.aspx

and this the KPEG163, which I believe is the device you have:

http://www.kingstate.com.tw/eng/Products/Products/ProductItem/tabid/186/rtab/185/Default.aspx?ItemId=22
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm sure that's the one. For some reason the data sheet from RS
calls it "KPE-163" without the "G".

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/535-8168/


--
When Elaine turned 11, her mother sent her to train under
Donald Knuth in his mountain hideaway. [XKCD 342]
 
"John Fields"
"Phil Allison"
I've been playing with a piezo transducer in 556 circuits (at higher
frequencies than with LEDs). The one I'm using is KPE-163, and the
specification says:

** That is a piezo buzzer - it has an electronic circuit that makes the
beep.

---
http://www.kingstate.com.tw/eng/Products/Products/ProductItem/tabid/186/rtab/187/Default.aspx?ItemId=22



** See the OP's post.

" Current Consumption (mA) Max. 10 @10Vp-p, square wave, 4.8Hz "

That error PLUS the pic and description fitted an electronic buzzer.

---
I disagree since, from the link above,
Click to expand...
** Irrelevant.

Your link was not available to me.

I found a pic and an ambiguous description.

Did you SEE the error in the OP's post at all ??



...... Phil
 
On 2012-03-22, Phil Allison wrote:

Did you SEE the error in the OP's post at all ??
Click to expand...
What was my error? (The RS website calls it a "Piezo electric
transducer", and the specs were all copied & pasted from the data
sheet.)


--
The kid's a hot prospect. He's got a good head for merchandising, an
agent who can take you downtown and one of the best urine samples I've
seen in a long time. [Dead Kennedys t-shirt]
 
Adam Funk wrote:
On 2012-03-22, Phil Allison wrote:


Did you SEE the error in the OP's post at all ??


What was my error? (The RS website calls it a "Piezo electric
transducer", and the specs were all copied & pasted from the data
sheet.)
Click to expand...
There's a difference in the specs between the datasheet at
the link John Fields posted and the spec you posted:
Your post says "square wave, 4.8Hz"
Datasheet says "square wave, 4.8KHz"

Ed
 
On 2012-03-27, ehsjr wrote:

Adam Funk wrote:
On 2012-03-22, Phil Allison wrote:


Did you SEE the error in the OP's post at all ??


What was my error? (The RS website calls it a "Piezo electric
transducer", and the specs were all copied & pasted from the data
sheet.)
Click to expand...
Oops, I just checked the PDF I have from RS, and it must just be a
scan: the text is not copy-and-pastable.


There's a difference in the specs between the datasheet at
the link John Fields posted and the spec you posted:
Your post says "square wave, 4.8Hz"
Datasheet says "square wave, 4.8KHz"
Click to expand...
Aha, that's my typing error; the PDF I have does actually say
"4.8KHz". You're right.


--
Two of the most famous products of Berkeley are LSD and Unix.
I don't think that this is a coincidence.
[alleged in The UNIX-Haters Handbook]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top