pic's & micro's

[go]

What is the difference between a pic & a microcontroller or even a
microcomputer?

 

[Don McKenzie]

go wrote:

What is the difference between a pic & a microcontroller or even a
microcomputer?

have a look at:
http://www.dontronics.com/auto.html
this may help.

Don...

--
Don McKenzie
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.e-dotcom.com/ecp.php?un=Dontronics

VoIP USB/RJ11 Use Any Phone http://www.dontronics.com/phoneconnector.html
USB to RS232 Converter that works http://www.dontronics.com/usb_232.html

 

[Joerg]

Hi Don,

have a look at:
http://www.dontronics.com/auto.html
this may help.

I did have a look and, in case this is your own site, I have a question:
What do you think about the MSP430 series versus AVR and PIC?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Don McKenzie]

Joerg wrote:

Hi Don,

have a look at:
http://www.dontronics.com/auto.html
this may help.


I did have a look and, in case this is your own site, I have a question:
What do you think about the MSP430 series versus AVR and PIC?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

It's a little like getting into the Ford/Holden debate.

Only problem most beginners find with the MSP430 series, is there is no DIP
versions for simple development, however many have been able to overcome this
with adapters, or soldering their own. It's not easy, but it can be done.

Don...


--
Don McKenzie
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.e-dotcom.com/ecp.php?un=Dontronics

VoIP USB/RJ11 Use Any Phone http://www.dontronics.com/phoneconnector.html
USB to RS232 Converter that works http://www.dontronics.com/usb_232.html

 

[Don McKenzie]

Don McKenzie wrote:

Joerg wrote:

Hi Don,

have a look at:
http://www.dontronics.com/auto.html
this may help.



I did have a look and, in case this is your own site, I have a
question: What do you think about the MSP430 series versus AVR and PIC?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com



It's a little like getting into the Ford/Holden debate.

Only problem most beginners find with the MSP430 series, is there is no
DIP versions for simple development, however many have been able to
overcome this with adapters, or soldering their own. It's not easy, but
it can be done.

Don...

I see you are in CA USA, better make that Ford/Chevvy

BTW
nothing but good reports about the MSP430 series, just the form factor problem.

--
Don McKenzie
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.e-dotcom.com/ecp.php?un=Dontronics

VoIP USB/RJ11 Use Any Phone http://www.dontronics.com/phoneconnector.html
USB to RS232 Converter that works http://www.dontronics.com/usb_232.html

 

[Clifford Heath]

Don McKenzie wrote:

Only problem most beginners find with the MSP430 series, is there is
no DIP versions for simple development
nothing but good reports about the MSP430 series, just the form factor
problem.

I'm a hobbyist who's used the MSP430. The smaller versions are available
in SOIC with a 1.25mm spacing, which I find tractable. It's the bigger
ones with .5mm pin spacing that are impossible. They don't suit all
applications though; they have limited RAM and there will probably never
be one which supports external RAM, so you won't do an MP3 player nor
decent TCP, for example. Although the free tools are nice and work well,
if I didn't have a *very* low quiescent power budget (<1uA), I think I
could have spent my time better learning the AVR.

As a software dude, I can't stomach the crazy PIC architecture (though
recent versions are better I've heard). No good free compilers either,
though I'm sure folk will pipe up about Pico-C and other toys. The
Hi-Tech freebie doesn't count as it only targets the older '84 chips,
though it's an excellent compiler (of course - it's Australian .

I'm also playing with the MC68HC08 now, though mainly because I have
a couple of freebies and they seemed a fair target for a project with
my son. I learnt (from the MC68HC11) to like Motorola's approach of
adding one of every kind of peripheral onto their chips, but that
does come at a cost. The Metrowerks IDE is utter dog's vomit though,
an embarrassment to the software industry.

All up, if you're a hobbyist who wants to learn one toolset and be
able to stay with it for projects of almost any scope, I think the
AVR family offers the most. There are just so many versions and the
free GCC toolchain is more highly developed than for other 8-bit
embedded architectures.

Clifford Heath.

 

[go]

that does not tell me Jack Shit

Don McKenzie wrote:

go wrote:

What is the difference between a pic & a microcontroller or even a
microcomputer?


have a look at:
http://www.dontronics.com/auto.html
this may help.

Don...

 

[Alex Gibson]

"Clifford Heath" <no@spam.please> wrote in message
news:2v5alaF2gg4a8U1@uni-berlin.de...

Don McKenzie wrote:
Only problem most beginners find with the MSP430 series, is there is no
DIP versions for simple development
nothing but good reports about the MSP430 series, just the form factor
problem.

I'm a hobbyist who's used the MSP430. The smaller versions are available
in SOIC with a 1.25mm spacing, which I find tractable. It's the bigger
ones with .5mm pin spacing that are impossible. They don't suit all
applications though; they have limited RAM and there will probably never
be one which supports external RAM, so you won't do an MP3 player nor
decent TCP, for example. Although the free tools are nice and work well,
if I didn't have a *very* low quiescent power budget (<1uA), I think I
could have spent my time better learning the AVR.

As a software dude, I can't stomach the crazy PIC architecture (though
recent versions are better I've heard). No good free compilers either,
though I'm sure folk will pipe up about Pico-C and other toys. The
Hi-Tech freebie doesn't count as it only targets the older '84 chips,
though it's an excellent compiler (of course - it's Australian .

wrong
http://www.htsoft.com/products/PICClite.php
16F877, 16F877A, 12F675, 12F629, 16F627, 16F627A, 16F684, 16C84, 16F84 and
16F84A devices.

I'm also playing with the MC68HC08 now, though mainly because I have
a couple of freebies and they seemed a fair target for a project with
my son. I learnt (from the MC68HC11) to like Motorola's approach of
adding one of every kind of peripheral onto their chips, but that
does come at a cost. The Metrowerks IDE is utter dog's vomit though,
an embarrassment to the software industry.

All up, if you're a hobbyist who wants to learn one toolset and be
able to stay with it for projects of almost any scope, I think the
AVR family offers the most. There are just so many versions and the
free GCC toolchain is more highly developed than for other 8-bit
embedded architectures.

If you don't mind surface mount philips arm7 chips are good
http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/catalog/219/282/45988/45993/45994/index.html

gcc ports and size limited versions of the usual commercial compilers

lots of flash and lots of ram
from 128kb flash and 16kb ram to 128kb flash and 64kb ram
to 256kb flash and 16 kb ram
lpc2106 and 2129 and the nice ones for me
program either via homemade jtag connector or serial bootloader

around the same prices as 16f877 pics
(depending on quantity) around Aus$15 - 17
www.adilam.com.au will sell in small quantities

lots of boards
olimex have some of the cheapest
www.olimex.com

also arm 7 wise
atmel is just starting to promote their sam7 chips
some have usb

Talking of usb, looks like we should have the 18f usb chips
within a few weeks if microchip are to be believed.

st ,analog devices, sharp and lots of others also do arm7 chips.
The sharp are nice if you need an lcd controller.
http://www.sharpsma.com/sma/products/MCUSoC.htm
http://www.revely.com/products_home.htm


Alex

 

[Joerg]

Hi Don,

It's a little like getting into the Ford/Holden debate.

Only problem most beginners find with the MSP430 series, is there is
no DIP versions for simple development, however many have been able
to overcome this with adapters, or soldering their own. It's not
easy, but it can be done.

Olimex makes adapter boards to through-hole for that and they contain

enough VCC bypass caps to keep it stable despite the extra trace lengths.

I see you are in CA USA, better make that Ford/Chevvy

Actually the debate usually flares up between owners of full-size pickup
trucks and then it is Ford/Chevy/Dodge.

nothing but good reports about the MSP430 series, just the form factor
problem.

Many parts of the MSP series are also kind of skimpy when it comes to
features. When, for example, there is only one timer that puts a crimp
in many possible applications. Then there is the fact that most are
limited to 3.6V and that doesn't allow for proper driving of many FETs.
They are also single sourced but so is everything else except for some
basic 80C51 types. But other than that I couldn't find a hair in the
soup. What I really like is that you can run a realtime clock and still
only consume just a few uA.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[onestone]

Joerg wrote:

Hi Don,

It's a little like getting into the Ford/Holden debate.

Only problem most beginners find with the MSP430 series, is there is
no DIP versions for simple development, however many have been able
to overcome this with adapters, or soldering their own. It's not
easy, but it can be done.


Olimex makes adapter boards to through-hole for that and they contain
enough VCC bypass caps to keep it stable despite the extra trace lengths.


I see you are in CA USA, better make that Ford/Chevvy



Actually the debate usually flares up between owners of full-size pickup
trucks and then it is Ford/Chevy/Dodge.

nothing but good reports about the MSP430 series, just the form factor
problem.



Many parts of the MSP series are also kind of skimpy when it comes to
features.

Well, like every other micro out there the MSP430 series is a family.
You can buy a minimally outfitted part, with limited peripherals for
peanuts or a device with just about every common peripheral on board.
The smallest part, the '1101 has just a timer and 14 I/O pins at first
glance, but if you delve deeper you find that the timer has 4 different
operating modes, 3 capture/compare/pwm channels, and is quite unique in
sampling the capture pin in compare mode. This allows you to build a
software UART that is much better than that on any other micro I've
worked with. The I/O ports on this part are both capable of interrupt on
pin change, again enabling some operations to be simplified. In addition
to this it runs on the sniff of an oily electron, and the capture
compare functions are configurable between several pins. The DCO, or
resistor based oscillator can be slaved to a watch crystal allowing
extremely low power operation with internal clock speeds up to 8MHz. Not
as precise as a crystal, but good enough for most things. The newer 1611
and 1612 are absolute power houses, with DMA up to 10 capture compare
/pwm channels, dual uart/spi/iic, interrupt on change, dual clock
sources etc etc. And one thing common to all MSP430s that most other
flash based micros don't allow is self programming of the flash while
executing from the program flash.

When, for example, there is only one timer that puts a crimp
in many possible applications.

Only if you lack imagination. I have implemented fairly complex systems
using a single timer. Including a 6 cylinder ECU offering independent
control of both injection and ignition for each cylinder. Anyway there
isn't just one timer except in the smallest parts, there are potentially
4 clock sources and at least 2 timers with a total of 10 timing channels
in the larger parts. Plus All parts have a watchdog timer, 4xx parts
have a third timer, plus the watchdog timer, and the ADC can also have
its own timer.

Then there is the fact that most are

limited to 3.6V and that doesn't allow for proper driving of many FETs.

Until about 10 years ago it was almost impossible to find a FET with a
LOgic level gate drive, most required at least 10V, and most of those
had horrendously high Rdson. It is simply progress that now these are
quite common. In fact FETs with gate drives down to 1.8V and even less
have been commonly available since before the release of the MSP430F
series. Look up Fairchild, On Semi, etc. I use a Fairchild SOT23 FET
with 2A Ic and 30A Ip with gate drive of just 2.7V. Interfacing to most
5V circuits is simplicity itself. In fact I directly drive 36V muxes
from 3V3 logic without any drama. Anyway neaarly everything you need is
available in 3V versions if you care to look for it. The only part I
can't get in 3V right now is a decent gyro, other than that most
sensors, all logic types, LCD's in character, graphics and colour are
all available in 3V0, as are line drivers for RS232, RS485 etc, even
radar transceivers, GPS etc. In fact most ISM band RF systems are only
available in 3V versions

Al

They are also single sourced but so is everything else except for some
basic 80C51 types. But other than that I couldn't find a hair in the
soup. What I really like is that you can run a realtime clock and still
only consume just a few uA.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com