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Which wave is the particle in the the Electric or the Magnetic wave?The nature of light is "?" .
The upper part represents the wave aspect;
the lower part represents the particle aspect.
-- Befuddled Bill
** They travel as waves but arrive as photons.
Refelection comes at every angle and every light energy in theOne of the interesting little things is using the Einstien equation E-MC*2 .
This defines an EQUIVALENT mass for an energy field. This doesn't meean
that a photon necessarily has mass but it does carry energy
--
Bob May
rmay at nethere.com
http: slash /nav.to slash bobmay
http: slash /bobmay dot astronomy.net
Hmmm, Mitch if you are really interested in this stuff you'll have toOn Dec 2, 2:09 pm, George Herold <ggher...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 4:43 pm, BURT <macromi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 1:04 pm, George Herold <ggher...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 3:16 pm, BURT <macromi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 3:43 am, p.kins...@ic.ac.uk wrote:
BURT <macromi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
What wave is the particle of light in? the electric opr
magnetic wave?
Here's how the theory can be described (simplified, obviously):
(a) solve Maxwell's equations for a suitable system, and get a set
of normalizable basis functions allowing you to describe any field
configuration.
(b) these basis functions usually have both electric and magnetic
field contributions; they are usually called "mode functions", and
tend to oscillate in space and time (although not all will).
(c) quantize the field inside each mode; this gives you a countable
series of possible mode excitations.
(d) to describe some chosen field configuration, you combine a
suitable set of modes containing appropriate quantum excitations.
You may need to account for non-trivial correlations between the
modes, and between the quantum states in the same and different
modes.
There is no "particle of light". Instead there are countable
excitations of the wave-like field modes. These modes usually
combine both electric and magnetic contributions.
It's not a particle, it's a wave. But you _can_ count the
excitations.
--
---------------------------------+---------------------------------
Dr. Paul Kinsler
Blackett Laboratory (Photonics) (ph) +44-20-759-47734 (fax) 47714
Imperial College London, Dr.Paul.Kins...@physics.org
SW7 2AZ, United Kingdom. http://www.qols.ph.ic.ac.uk/~kinsle/
There are only a very few quantizations in light energy quantities of
the atom. Certainly not enough for white light we see. This does not
correspond to the reality of the full spectrum produced by the white
light. A light bulb passed through a prism produces a full spectrum of
energy levels but does not have enough quantized states in its atom to
do so.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Mitch, The light bulb can be thought of as a black body radiator. It
doesn't matter what kind of atoms the black body is made of. All that
is important is the temperature.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbody_radiation
George H.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
George my point is that energy transitions cannot be quantized in the
case of a white light. You might have a light filliment composed of a
few different atoms but these could not produce the full spectrum of
all the light energies noticed when its light is passed through a
prism.
Evidently only sometimes is light energy quantized.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Ahh, there are two types of quantization here. For an atom you have
quantized electron states. The photon emmited when the atom goes from
one state to the other has a particular 'quantized' frequency. But
this is just because of the uderlying quantized electron states.
There is then the quantization of the EM field that is called a
photon....(And I'll never call it a particle again.) When you measure
light you either see one photon or none....never some fraction of a
photon. (OK, most times you see lots of photons, but always an
interger number.)
George H.
(I was afraid you were going to ask, "From where comes the photon
emmited by a black body?" I don't have a good picture of that
process.)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The electron state is simply which of the 4 shells it is in. There are
only 4 fundamental sizes to the atom because of these round shells
that science calles energy levels of the electron.
White light from a surface composed of a few different atoms is
evidence that emmision is not always quantized.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I don't read and I don't go to school but light still comes from everyOn Dec 2, 5:19 pm, BURT <macromi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 2:09 pm, George Herold <ggher...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 4:43 pm, BURT <macromi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 1:04 pm, George Herold <ggher...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 3:16 pm, BURT <macromi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 3:43 am, p.kins...@ic.ac.uk wrote:
BURT <macromi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
What wave is the particle of light in? the electric opr
magnetic wave?
Here's how the theory can be described (simplified, obviously):
(a) solve Maxwell's equations for a suitable system, and get a set
of normalizable basis functions allowing you to describe any field
configuration.
(b) these basis functions usually have both electric and magnetic
field contributions; they are usually called "mode functions", and
tend to oscillate in space and time (although not all will).
(c) quantize the field inside each mode; this gives you a countable
series of possible mode excitations.
(d) to describe some chosen field configuration, you combine a
suitable set of modes containing appropriate quantum excitations.
You may need to account for non-trivial correlations between the
modes, and between the quantum states in the same and different
modes.
There is no "particle of light". Instead there are countable
excitations of the wave-like field modes. These modes usually
combine both electric and magnetic contributions.
It's not a particle, it's a wave. But you _can_ count the
excitations.
--
---------------------------------+---------------------------------
Dr. Paul Kinsler
Blackett Laboratory (Photonics) (ph) +44-20-759-47734 (fax) 47714
Imperial College London, Dr.Paul.Kins...@physics.org
SW7 2AZ, United Kingdom. http://www.qols.ph.ic.ac.uk/~kinsle/
There are only a very few quantizations in light energy quantities of
the atom. Certainly not enough for white light we see. This does not
correspond to the reality of the full spectrum produced by the white
light. A light bulb passed through a prism produces a full spectrum of
energy levels but does not have enough quantized states in its atom to
do so.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Mitch, The light bulb can be thought of as a black body radiator. It
doesn't matter what kind of atoms the black body is made of. All that
is important is the temperature.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbody_radiation
George H.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
George my point is that energy transitions cannot be quantized in the
case of a white light. You might have a light filliment composed of a
few different atoms but these could not produce the full spectrum of
all the light energies noticed when its light is passed through a
prism.
Evidently only sometimes is light energy quantized.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Ahh, there are two types of quantization here. For an atom you have
quantized electron states. The photon emmited when the atom goes from
one state to the other has a particular 'quantized' frequency. But
this is just because of the uderlying quantized electron states.
There is then the quantization of the EM field that is called a
photon....(And I'll never call it a particle again.) When you measure
light you either see one photon or none....never some fraction of a
photon. (OK, most times you see lots of photons, but always an
interger number.)
George H.
(I was afraid you were going to ask, "From where comes the photon
emmited by a black body?" I don't have a good picture of that
process.)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The electron state is simply which of the 4 shells it is in. There are
only 4 fundamental sizes to the atom because of these round shells
that science calles energy levels of the electron.
White light from a surface composed of a few different atoms is
evidence that emmision is not always quantized.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Hmmm, Mitch if you are really interested in this stuff you'll have to
take a class (well there are QM classes in video on the web.) and work
through the standard problems. There are an infite number of energy
states of an atom. At the larger quantum numbers the states have
almost the same energy and we then just call them 'the continum' (or
some such term.) I have no idea where the 4 number came from but it's
wrong.
George H.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
A mirror is an example of a metal coating that can handle everyOn Dec 4, 1:58 pm, George Herold <ggher...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 5:19 pm, BURT <macromi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 2:09 pm, George Herold <ggher...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 4:43 pm, BURT <macromi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 1:04 pm, George Herold <ggher...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 3:16 pm, BURT <macromi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Dec 2, 3:43 am, p.kins...@ic.ac.uk wrote:
BURT <macromi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
What wave is the particle of light in? the electric opr
magnetic wave?
Here's how the theory can be described (simplified, obviously):
(a) solve Maxwell's equations for a suitable system, and get a set
of normalizable basis functions allowing you to describe any field
configuration.
(b) these basis functions usually have both electric and magnetic
field contributions; they are usually called "mode functions", and
tend to oscillate in space and time (although not all will)..
(c) quantize the field inside each mode; this gives you a countable
series of possible mode excitations.
(d) to describe some chosen field configuration, you combine a
suitable set of modes containing appropriate quantum excitations.
You may need to account for non-trivial correlations between the
modes, and between the quantum states in the same and different
modes.
There is no "particle of light". Instead there are countable
excitations of the wave-like field modes. These modes usually
combine both electric and magnetic contributions.
It's not a particle, it's a wave. But you _can_ count the
excitations.
--
---------------------------------+---------------------------------
Dr. Paul Kinsler
Blackett Laboratory (Photonics) (ph) +44-20-759-47734 (fax) 47714
Imperial College London, Dr.Paul.Kins...@physics.org
SW7 2AZ, United Kingdom. http://www.qols..ph.ic.ac.uk/~kinsle/
There are only a very few quantizations in light energy quantities of
the atom. Certainly not enough for white light we see. This does not
correspond to the reality of the full spectrum produced by the white
light. A light bulb passed through a prism produces a full spectrum of
energy levels but does not have enough quantized states in its atom to
do so.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Mitch, The light bulb can be thought of as a black body radiator. It
doesn't matter what kind of atoms the black body is made of. All that
is important is the temperature.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbody_radiation
George H.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
George my point is that energy transitions cannot be quantized in the
case of a white light. You might have a light filliment composed of a
few different atoms but these could not produce the full spectrum of
all the light energies noticed when its light is passed through a
prism.
Evidently only sometimes is light energy quantized.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Ahh, there are two types of quantization here. For an atom you have
quantized electron states. The photon emmited when the atom goes from
one state to the other has a particular 'quantized' frequency. But
this is just because of the uderlying quantized electron states.
There is then the quantization of the EM field that is called a
photon....(And I'll never call it a particle again.) When you measure
light you either see one photon or none....never some fraction of a
photon. (OK, most times you see lots of photons, but always an
interger number.)
George H.
(I was afraid you were going to ask, "From where comes the photon
emmited by a black body?" I don't have a good picture of that
process.)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The electron state is simply which of the 4 shells it is in. There are
only 4 fundamental sizes to the atom because of these round shells
that science calles energy levels of the electron.
White light from a surface composed of a few different atoms is
evidence that emmision is not always quantized.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Hmmm, Mitch if you are really interested in this stuff you'll have to
take a class (well there are QM classes in video on the web.) and work
through the standard problems. There are an infite number of energy
states of an atom. At the larger quantum numbers the states have
almost the same energy and we then just call them 'the continum' (or
some such term.) I have no idea where the 4 number came from but it's
wrong.
George H.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I don't read and I don't go to school but light still comes from every
angle in reflection.
Mitch Raemsch- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
It's my understanding that quantization applies to the detection of EMA mirror is an example of a metal coating that can handle every
frequency of light. Quantization does not apply here either. A rainbow
and anything exibiting white light cannot be a phenomenon of
quantization of energy in the atom. A laser would be an exception that
needs to be taken into account. Evidently quantization has a limited
applicability.
George H.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I don't read and I don't go to school but light still comes from every
angle in reflection.
Mitch Raemsch
Evidently some atoms can radiate and absorb all visable frequenciesBURT wrote:
A mirror is an example of a metal coating that can handle every
frequency of light. Quantization does not apply here either. A rainbow
and anything exibiting white light cannot be a phenomenon of
quantization of energy in the atom. A laser would be an exception that
needs to be taken into account. Evidently quantization has a limited
applicability.
It's my understanding that quantization applies to the detection of EM
radiation when the detection involve changing electron states including
modifying chemical bonds. It's my understanding that it doesn't apply
when detection is accomplished simply by heating (increase in
molecular velocity) not involving ionization. So QM can apply to white
light and rainbows if you use your eye, film, or a CCD but not if you
use a bolometer or thermometer as the detector.
I could be dead wrong, but I consider photons to only "exist" when and
where light exchanges energy with matter at a sub-molecular level. At
least that view seems to be sufficient for engineering needs when
working with emitters and detectors.
Educate me. How does that view conflict with formal QM theory?
"Photons" show up, that is light detection is appears and discrete events,BURT wrote:
A mirror is an example of a metal coating that can handle every
frequency of light. Quantization does not apply here either. A rainbow
and anything exibiting white light cannot be a phenomenon of
quantization of energy in the atom. A laser would be an exception that
needs to be taken into account. Evidently quantization has a limited
applicability.
It's my understanding that quantization applies to the detection of EM
radiation when the detection involve changing electron states including
modifying chemical bonds. It's my understanding that it doesn't apply
when detection is accomplished simply by heating (increase in molecular
velocity) not involving ionization. So QM can apply to white light and
rainbows if you use your eye, film, or a CCD but not if you use a
bolometer or thermometer as the detector.
I could be dead wrong, but I consider photons to only "exist" when and
where light exchanges energy with matter at a sub-molecular level. At
least that view seems to be sufficient for engineering needs when working
with emitters and detectors.
Educate me. How does that view conflict with formal QM theory?
If light is a particle which of its waves is this particle in? its"Louis Boyd" <b...@apt0.sao.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:hfcnmb$6m4$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
BURT wrote:
A mirror is an example of a metal coating that can handle every
frequency of light. Quantization does not apply here either. A rainbow
and anything exibiting white light cannot be a phenomenon of
quantization of energy in the atom. A laser would be an exception that
needs to be taken into account. Evidently quantization has a limited
applicability.
It's my understanding that quantization applies to the detection of EM
radiation when the detection involve changing electron states including
modifying chemical bonds. It's my understanding that it doesn't apply
when detection is accomplished simply by heating (increase in molecular
velocity) not involving ionization. So QM can apply to white light and
rainbows if you use your eye, film, or a CCD but not if you use a
bolometer or thermometer as the detector.
I could be dead wrong, but I consider photons to only "exist" when and
where light exchanges energy with matter at a sub-molecular level. At
least that view seems to be sufficient for engineering needs when working
with emitters and detectors.
Educate me. How does that view conflict with formal QM theory?
"Photons" show up, that is light detection is appears and discrete events,
when light is detected, even with thermal detectors. To observe this
experimentally you of course need high enough signal to noise, but it is
done. For example, super conducting bolometers can not only detect soft
x-ray photons as discrete detection events, but also measure their energy
with a resolution of a few percent or better. I remember an interesting
talk on this work by a professor of physics or astronomy from the University
of Wisconsin at Madison.
Bret Cannon- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
So, please tell us. What is the greater truth?Quantization has been disproven. It does have application but it is
the lesser truth.
Yes. Don't think of this as "either-or", think ofIf light is a particle which of its waves is this particle in? its
magnetic wave or electric wave?
Quite right, Bob. I sometimes use a "leapfrog" analogy, the electricOn Sun, 6 Dec 2009 20:31:18 -0800 (PST), BURT
macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote:
If light is a particle which of its waves is this particle in? its
magnetic wave or electric wave?
Yes. Don't think of this as "either-or", think of
the photon as the oscillation between magnetic and
electric fields. To use a mechanical analogy, you
might think of the photon as a rubber ball flying
through space. It is springy in the X and Y
dimensions, and oscillates between having its
energy stored in X-compression/Y-elongation,
versus Y-compression/X-elongation.
Now take away the ball.
Best regards,
Bob Masta
Quantization is less imorportant.BURT <macromi...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:b72906b1-e886-418b-8f3e-
525a12b37...@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
Quantization has been disproven. It does have application but it is
the lesser truth.
So, please tell us. What is the greater truth?
Brian
--http://www.skywise711.com- Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ:http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions":http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
So which is it? "less important" or "has been disproven"?On Dec 6, 10:43 pm, Skywise <i...@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote:
BURT <macromi...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:b72906b1-e886-418b-8f3e-
525a12b37...@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
Quantization has been disproven. It does have application but it is
the lesser truth.
So, please tell us. What is the greater truth?
Quantization is less imorportant.
The truth is meant to be known. Quantization is the lesser conceptBURT <macromi...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:abdfaf69-fc01-40fe-a43e-
2fb244fc2...@z35g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
On Dec 6, 10:43 pm, Skywise <i...@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote:
BURT <macromi...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:b72906b1-e886-418b-8f3e-
525a12b37...@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
Quantization has been disproven. It does have application but it is
the lesser truth.
So, please tell us. What is the greater truth?
Quantization is less imorportant.
So which is it? "less important" or "has been disproven"?
One implies it exists and the other that it doesn't.
Brian
--http://www.skywise711.com- Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ:http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions":http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
You miss the point: I can quantize the field in any set of basisRefelection comes at every angle and every light energy in the
spectrum for white light. This means qunatization of energy coming out
of the atom isn't always applicable; for example the rainbow.
Why not consider the Yee grid for discretizing and numerically solvingQuite right, Bob. I sometimes use a "leapfrog" analogy, the electric
field creates the magnetic field as the electric collapses and then the
magnetic creates the electric field in turn.