Phaser 860 vs 8200

[D Yuniskis]

Hi,

I have too many Phasers cluttering up the place. :<
My 860 just started reporting a Jet stack error. May be
something simple. Or, may be "replace printhead" (not
going to happen! :> ).

Rather than mess with it, I am tempted to just pull the
ink[1] and scrap it.

But, I would like to be able to salvage the ink that I
already have (in the printer plus "in stock").

Nearest I can tell, the 860 and the 8200 are the same
machines (more or less). Of course, the ink is keyed
differently! :< The Cynic assumes this is so Xerox can
sell more ink! ;-)

AFAICT, the only issues that could affect ink compatibility
between the two are melting point and the actual pigment
colors. Incompatibilities in the former could damage the
printer. While incompatibilities in the latter could result
in images of people with yellow faces, green skies, etc.

If I restrict the printer for use with "presentation graphics",
then accurate color is not a real issue (I am not sure if using
the 860's ICM profiles could work around this incompatibility!).

And, I *think* I can resolve the melting point issue by
examining the setpoints of the heaters (diagnostic menu).
Presumably, these are determined (by the factory) to yield
the same overall viscosity of the ink prior to printing?

(Yeah, it seems like a lot of work just to save a few hundred
dollars of ink -- but, it would be interesting to *know* as well!)

Thx,
--don

[1] *and* the keyed cover plate for the ink tray so I
can migrate that to the 8200 later to enable the ink
to be used there!

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 10:25:10 -0700, D Yuniskis
<not.going.to.be@seen.com> wrote:

I have too many Phasers cluttering up the place. :
My 860 just started reporting a Jet stack error. May be
something simple. Or, may be "replace printhead" (not
going to happen! :> ).

Jetstack error means that one of the heaters is either clogged or
dead, or the temp sense thermistor is bad. The exact error message
would be helpful. However, removing the loader and jetstack are a
major project, especially with melted wax stuck inside. See the
service manual for destructions.

Rather than mess with it, I am tempted to just pull the
ink[1] and scrap it.

Sigh. It's a great color printer.

But, I would like to be able to salvage the ink that I
already have (in the printer plus "in stock").

Ink? It runs on melted wax crayons.

(Yeah, it seems like a lot of work just to save a few hundred
dollars of ink -- but, it would be interesting to *know* as well!)

A 3 pack of one color is about $25. You decide if it's worth the
effort and mess.

*and* the keyed cover plate for the ink tray so I
can migrate that to the 8200 later to enable the ink
to be used there!

Sigh...



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[D Yuniskis]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 10:25:10 -0700, D Yuniskis
not.going.to.be@seen.com> wrote:

I have too many Phasers cluttering up the place. :
My 860 just started reporting a Jet stack error. May be
something simple. Or, may be "replace printhead" (not
going to happen! :> ).

Jetstack error means that one of the heaters is either clogged or
dead, or the temp sense thermistor is bad. The exact error message
would be helpful. However, removing the loader and jetstack are a
major project, especially with melted wax stuck inside. See the
service manual for destructions.

Yes, that was what motivated me to just opt to "punt" instead
of trying to salvage the unit (they are big and I have several
of them so... the ink is worth more to me than the printer as
I am hoping I can move it into the 8200 -- a nicer printer!)

Rather than mess with it, I am tempted to just pull the
ink[1] and scrap it.

Sigh. It's a great color printer.

Yup. But the 8200DP has more features -- the duplexor alone
is worth the "upgrade" (i.e., moving the 8200DP into the place
currently occupied in the house by the 860N)

But, I would like to be able to salvage the ink that I
already have (in the printer plus "in stock").

Ink? It runs on melted wax crayons.

Yes. Ink. :> Or, "ink sticks" to be pedantic.

(Yeah, it seems like a lot of work just to save a few hundred
dollars of ink -- but, it would be interesting to *know* as well!)

A 3 pack of one color is about $25. You decide if it's worth the
effort and mess.

....times 4 colors is $100. Plus, a three pack (of ALL colors) won't
even completely fill the tray.

I have a fair bit of ink stockpiled in the closet. If it *can't*
be used on the 8200 (when I run out of 8200 sticks), then this
is a fair bit of ink to just "bin"...

*and* the keyed cover plate for the ink tray so I
can migrate that to the 8200 later to enable the ink
to be used there!

Sigh...

It looks like I should be able to salvage the cover plate.
That would make it a piece of cake to use the 860 sticks
in the "bastardized" 8200 when the time comes (I don't
cherish the idea of "carving" ink sticks "to fit")

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 12:08:32 -0700, D Yuniskis
<not.going.to.be@seen.com> wrote:

... the ink is worth more to me than the printer as
I am hoping I can move it into the 8200 -- a nicer printer!)

Ok, you've made your decision.

The landlords office used a Tek 8200DP Phaser printer. Better yet,
they got it for free:
<http://web.archive.org/web/20031018002440/http://www.freelaserprinter.com/>
Why I didn't get one for myself will remain an unanswered question.
They ran it like a printing press and eventually killed it when the
excess heat caused all the plastic gears to crumble into powder. So,
they bought a new model Phaser, assuming that their lifetime stock of
wax "ink" would work. They figured that the price of the wax "ink"
supplies, which had to be purchased from the vendor, would eventually
climb, so they stocked up. They were wrong. It didn't fit. I looked
at the situation and determined that the new wax "ink" blocks were
slightly smaller and a different shape. I vaguely recall something
like 48 assorted 5 pack boxes.

So, I made a plaster of Paris two part mold of one of the new "ink"
blocks. I wrecked a small kitchen pot melting the wax, but after a
few screwsup, it worked. There was no difference in color or
contamination between the old and the new wax "ink". I didn't try to
recover anything out of the old printer. Too messy.

I still have the casting blocks somewhere. I was saving them for a
chemisty experiment in making my own wax "ink". However, the
landlord wouldn't let me experiment with his printer, so the project
was (temporarily) abandoned.

Yup. But the 8200DP has more features -- the duplexor alone
is worth the "upgrade" (i.e., moving the 8200DP into the place
currently occupied in the house by the 860N)

I've had problems printing on both sides using 20lb paper. I had to
switch to 24lb minimum. I also noticed an oddity when printing on
glossy paper. If I fold the page towards the printed side, the wax
doesn't flake off or crack. If I fold it the other way, it flakes and
cracks. Duplex printing guarantees that one side will have a problem
with glossy paper.

Yes. Ink. :> Or, "ink sticks" to be pedantic.

I prefer crayons.

I have a fair bit of ink stockpiled in the closet. If it *can't*
be used on the 8200 (when I run out of 8200 sticks), then this
is a fair bit of ink to just "bin"...

Well ok. You can compare composition between the old and new wax
"ink" by melting some in a test tube, and centrifuge it while still
hot. It should break down into visible layers. I wouldn't be
surprised if there was a difference as vendors are trying to replace
expensive bees wax with cheaper vegie stearic acid, soy wax, or
carnuaba wax.
<http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=Tf8nAAAAEBAJ&dq=hot+melt+ink>
<http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=e1cFAAAAEBAJ&dq=hot+melt+ink>
Lots more in the references.

It looks like I should be able to salvage the cover plate.
That would make it a piece of cake to use the 860 sticks
in the "bastardized" 8200 when the time comes (I don't
cherish the idea of "carving" ink sticks "to fit")

So, what happens when you run out of the old wax "ink"? Put the real
cover plate back in? I guess that will work.

Good luck.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Jeff,

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 12:08:32 -0700, D Yuniskis
not.going.to.be@seen.com> wrote:

... the ink is worth more to me than the printer as
I am hoping I can move it into the 8200 -- a nicer printer!)

Ok, you've made your decision.

The landlords office used a Tek 8200DP Phaser printer. Better yet,
they got it for free:
http://web.archive.org/web/20031018002440/http://www.freelaserprinter.com/

The three I have are all working recues. Well, all except the
860N which has just recently started complaining...

Why I didn't get one for myself will remain an unanswered question.
They ran it like a printing press and eventually killed it when the
excess heat caused all the plastic gears to crumble into powder. So,
they bought a new model Phaser, assuming that their lifetime stock of
wax "ink" would work. They figured that the price of the wax "ink"
supplies, which had to be purchased from the vendor, would eventually
climb, so they stocked up. They were wrong. It didn't fit. I looked
at the situation and determined that the new wax "ink" blocks were
slightly smaller and a different shape. I vaguely recall something

Yes. All of the phasers have "shape coded" ink sticks.

like 48 assorted 5 pack boxes.

So, I made a plaster of Paris two part mold of one of the new "ink"
blocks. I wrecked a small kitchen pot melting the wax, but after a
few screwsup, it worked. There was no difference in color or
contamination between the old and the new wax "ink". I didn't try to
recover anything out of the old printer. Too messy.

On older generation phasers, the ink blocks are only keyed
in two dimensions. So, if you have the right shaped "cut outs"
in the plastic plate that covers the ink tray, you can insert
the ink sticks. Hence my original comment that I would salvage
this "*keyed* cover plate" from the 860 to use on the 8200

I still have the casting blocks somewhere. I was saving them for a
chemisty experiment in making my own wax "ink". However, the
landlord wouldn't let me experiment with his printer, so the project
was (temporarily) abandoned.

Yup. But the 8200DP has more features -- the duplexor alone
is worth the "upgrade" (i.e., moving the 8200DP into the place
currently occupied in the house by the 860N)

I've had problems printing on both sides using 20lb paper. I had to
switch to 24lb minimum. I also noticed an oddity when printing on
glossy paper. If I fold the page towards the printed side, the wax
doesn't flake off or crack. If I fold it the other way, it flakes and
cracks. Duplex printing guarantees that one side will have a problem
with glossy paper.

I don't use glossy paper on the phasers. I only print
"text" (manuals) double sided.

Yes. Ink. :> Or, "ink sticks" to be pedantic.

I prefer crayons.

I have a fair bit of ink stockpiled in the closet. If it *can't*
be used on the 8200 (when I run out of 8200 sticks), then this
is a fair bit of ink to just "bin"...

Well ok. You can compare composition between the old and new wax
"ink" by melting some in a test tube, and centrifuge it while still
hot. It should break down into visible layers. I wouldn't be
surprised if there was a difference as vendors are trying to replace
expensive bees wax with cheaper vegie stearic acid, soy wax, or
carnuaba wax.
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=Tf8nAAAAEBAJ&dq=hot+melt+ink
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=e1cFAAAAEBAJ&dq=hot+melt+ink
Lots more in the references.

It looks like I should be able to salvage the cover plate.
That would make it a piece of cake to use the 860 sticks
in the "bastardized" 8200 when the time comes (I don't
cherish the idea of "carving" ink sticks "to fit")

So, what happens when you run out of the old wax "ink"? Put the real
cover plate back in? I guess that will work.

No. I will keep the current cover plate there until I run out
of 8200 ink sticks. Then, i will replace it with the 860N's
cover plate and use the salvaged 860 ink. Then, I will
toss the printer away. $0 investment.

Good luck.

Thanks!