PFC voltage loop compensation

G

Genome

Guest
I am considering using one of the UCC28510 IC's in a power factor
corrected power supply. Then I discovered that the application note was
a piece of shit. In particular when it comes to compensating the voltage
loop it is shit.

Now..... I've been through this before and for the first time I came up
with a method for doing it, even I haven't explained it too well but
it's a damn site better than their shit.

The result is in the binaries newsgroup in ta...ta...ta...dah PDF
format, and that was a pain as well.

Hope it helps

If someone knows a contact in TI then pass it on to them. And I do want
the name Genome included.

DNA

Life isn't floopy doopy because there are floopy doopy people out there.
 
"Genome" <Genome@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:5Tckc.162$Y86.71@newsfe1-win...
| I am considering using one of the UCC28510 IC's in a power factor
| corrected power supply. Then I discovered that the application note
was
| a piece of shit. In particular when it comes to compensating the
voltage
| loop it is shit.
|
| Now..... I've been through this before and for the first time I came
up
| with a method for doing it, even I haven't explained it too well but
| it's a damn site better than their shit.
|
| The result is in the binaries newsgroup in ta...ta...ta...dah PDF
| format, and that was a pain as well.
|
| Hope it helps
|
| If someone knows a contact in TI then pass it on to them. And I do
want
| the name Genome included.
|
| DNA
|
| Life isn't floopy doopy because there are floopy doopy people out
there.
|
|

Oh..... Now I no longer remember how I did it but I think I got a
postscript printer driver from adobes website. I did look for the
distiller but that turned out to be knob.

If you cross that hurdle then you can print things as .ps to file and
download Ghostscript..... which, with it's ps2pdf thing doesn't work
until..... you go and edit autoexec.bat and end up with something
like.....


SET
PATH=%PATH%;C:\PROGRA~1\BORLAND\DELPHI4\BIN;C:\GS\GS8.14\LIB;C:\GS\GS8.1
4\BIN;

So it knows where to find its scrotum. I just added the bits to the end,
don't know what the rest of it means other than I sshmurrrggled in
delphi once.

Then you can play in DOS mode.

What you can also do...... is use the DOS copy thing.

copy file1.ps+file2.ps+file3.ps file4.ps

Which appends files.

Then you ps2pdf file4.ps file4.pdf it and it works apart from the error
message.

When you load it into acrobat it's cool apart from two extra pages, one
blank... one with some stack overflow error message on it.

Burp on that and go and print it using your postscript printer for the
pages you want, not the last two.

Then ps2pdf the result and you are good to go.

I'm sure that doesn't make sense but if you have an IQ above that of
Paul Burridge then you'll manage.

DNA
 
Hi All,

The LM3478 looks pretty cool for battery powered stuff. Fits the bill for
many designs because it runs with an external FET and is thus not voltage
limited as most other solution.

Even Digikey has it so it's got to have some followers. What puzzled me was
that I did not find many application stories via Google. Don't need any,
just curious: Is it popular?

Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
 
Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
The LM3478 looks pretty cool for battery powered stuff. Fits the bill for
many designs because it runs with an external FET and is thus not voltage
limited as most other solution.
Click to expand...
I'm using him in a 24V 20% / 22V 5% 70W Sepic - with a good artwork,
it works like a champ.

Andreas
--
Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience
usually comes from bad judgment.
 
Thanks, Andreas. It's good to know that you are happy with the device. Costs
more than some discrete stuff but at least the LM3478 is under a Dollar.

My apologies to Genome and the others. This was meant to be a separate topic
but the second I hit "send" my link to the usenet server went kaputt. Must
have gone anyway but into the wrong thread. I'll try again.

Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
 
Genome wrote...
I am considering using one of the UCC28510 IC's in a power factor
corrected power supply. Then I discovered that the application note was
a piece of shit. In particular when it comes to compensating the voltage
loop it is shit.

Now..... I've been through this before and for the first time I came up
with a method for doing it, even I haven't explained it too well but
it's a damn site better than their shit.

The result is in the binaries newsgroup in ta...ta...ta...dah PDF
format, and that was a pain as well.
Click to expand...
I looked but didn't find it. Maybe later...

Hope it helps

If someone knows a contact in TI then pass it on to them. And I do want
the name Genome included.

DNA
Click to expand...
What about the compensation used on TI's eval board (see SLUU117C)?


Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com (use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)
 
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:49:09 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Thanks, Andreas. It's good to know that you are happy with the device. Costs
more than some discrete stuff but at least the LM3478 is under a Dollar.
Click to expand...
If it's under a dollar, it's selling in quantity, which is better than
being popular.

RL
 
"Winfield Hill" <Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:c6rrp90b07@drn.newsguy.com...
| Genome wrote...
| >
| > I am considering using one of the UCC28510 IC's in a power factor
| > corrected power supply. Then I discovered that the application note
was
| > a piece of shit. In particular when it comes to compensating the
voltage
| > loop it is shit.
| >
| > Now..... I've been through this before and for the first time I came
up
| > with a method for doing it, even I haven't explained it too well but
| > it's a damn site better than their shit.
| >
| > The result is in the binaries newsgroup in ta...ta...ta...dah PDF
| > format, and that was a pain as well.
|
| I looked but didn't find it. Maybe later...
|
| > Hope it helps
| >
| > If someone knows a contact in TI then pass it on to them. And I do
want
| > the name Genome included.
| >
| > DNA
|
| What about the compensation used on TI's eval board (see SLUU117C)?
|
|
| Thanks,
| - Win
|
| whill_at_picovolt-dot-com (use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)
|

I think I did in some hope that they explained further but they didn't.

DNA
 
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:32:27 +0100, "Genome" <Genome@nothere.com>
wrote:

"Winfield Hill" <Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:c6rrp90b07@drn.newsguy.com...
| Genome wrote...
|
| > I am considering using one of the UCC28510 IC's in a power factor
| > corrected power supply. Then I discovered that the application note
was
| > a piece of shit. In particular when it comes to compensating the
voltage
| > loop it is shit.
|
| > Now..... I've been through this before and for the first time I came
up
| > with a method for doing it, even I haven't explained it too well but
| > it's a damn site better than their shit.
|
| > The result is in the binaries newsgroup in ta...ta...ta...dah PDF
| > format, and that was a pain as well.
|
| I looked but didn't find it. Maybe later...
|
| > Hope it helps
|
| > If someone knows a contact in TI then pass it on to them. And I do
want
| > the name Genome included.

| What about the compensation used on TI's eval board (see SLUU117C)?
|
|

I think I did in some hope that they explained further but they didn't.
Click to expand...
Perhaps some general notes that cover similar apps would help. They
may have assumed you'd look there.

High Power Factor Preregulator fo Off-Line power Supplies
Lloyd Dixon
SEM600 Topic6 - TI slup087

Optimizing the Design of a High Power Factor Switching Regulator
Lloyd Dixon
SEM700 Topic7 - TI slup093

UC3854 Controlled Power Factor Correction Circuit Design
Philip Todd
Unitrode Application Note U134 In the old app manual.

RL
 
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:18:12 +0100, Genome wrote:

"Genome" <Genome@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:5Tckc.162$Y86.71@newsfe1-win...
| I am considering using one of the UCC28510 IC's in a power factor
| corrected power supply. Then I discovered that the application note
was
| a piece of shit. In particular when it comes to compensating the
voltage
| loop it is shit.
|
| Now..... I've been through this before and for the first time I came
up
| with a method for doing it, even I haven't explained it too well but
| it's a damn site better than their shit.
|
| The result is in the binaries newsgroup in ta...ta...ta...dah PDF
| format, and that was a pain as well.
|
| Hope it helps
|
| If someone knows a contact in TI then pass it on to them. And I do
want
| the name Genome included.
|
| DNA
|
| Life isn't floopy doopy because there are floopy doopy people out
there.
|
|

Oh..... Now I no longer remember how I did it but I think I got a
postscript printer driver from adobes website. I did look for the
distiller but that turned out to be knob.
Click to expand...
What do you mean? I'm thinking of getting it. Lancaster's the one to
ask about all that. Not a real priority, though.
If you cross that hurdle then you can print things as .ps to file and
download Ghostscript..... which, with it's ps2pdf thing doesn't work
until..... you go and edit autoexec.bat and end up with something
like.....

SET
PATH=%PATH%;C:\PROGRA~1\BORLAND\DELPHI4\BIN;C:\GS\GS8.14\LIB;C:\GS\GS8.1
4\BIN;

So it knows where to find its scrotum. I just added the bits to the end,
don't know what the rest of it means other than I sshmurrrggled in
delphi once.

Then you can play in DOS mode.

What you can also do...... is use the DOS copy thing.

copy file1.ps+file2.ps+file3.ps file4.ps

Which appends files.

Then you ps2pdf file4.ps file4.pdf it and it works apart from the error
message.

When you load it into acrobat it's cool apart from two extra pages, one
blank... one with some stack overflow error message on it.

Burp on that and go and print it using your postscript printer for the
pages you want, not the last two.

Then ps2pdf the result and you are good to go.

I'm sure that doesn't make sense but if you have an IQ above that of
Paul Burridge then you'll manage.

DNA
Click to expand...
That's a lot of bs to go through to get a pdf file. I found a few
free tools but google pdf995. That's one thing I installed. IIRC,
it's a virtual printer driver that saves as pdf. I also got a few
other things that let me turn html pages into pdfs and search within
pdfs without using acrosplat. can't remember the other tools and
haven't had the need to get to know them yet.
--
Best Regards,
Mike
 
"Active8" <reply2group@ndbbm.net> wrote in message
news:1f36bo0g3cw5h.dlg@news.individual.net...
| On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:18:12 +0100, Genome wrote:
|
|
| That's a lot of bs to go through to get a pdf file. I found a few
| free tools but google pdf995. That's one thing I installed. IIRC,
| it's a virtual printer driver that saves as pdf. I also got a few
| other things that let me turn html pages into pdfs and search within
| pdfs without using acrosplat. can't remember the other tools and
| haven't had the need to get to know them yet.
| --
| Best Regards,
| Mike

Ghostscript is a bit dossy but when you get used to it it does the job
and it's free. Part of the pleasure came from working out how to do
things. It works and does a pretty good job too.

Bear in mind that this is my first venture into PDFs. I did hunt for
things and pdf995 came up but I was bothered about the true freeness of
it. I remember someone mentioning that it smeared adverts and watermarks
all over the place unless you paid some money for it.

Cheers

DNA
 
"Genome" <Genome@nothere.com> wrote in message
news:5Tckc.162$Y86.71@newsfe1-win...
I am considering using one of the UCC28510 IC's in a power factor
corrected power supply. Then I discovered that the application note was
a piece of shit. In particular when it comes to compensating the voltage
loop it is shit.

Hey Genome, The UCC28510 does PFC to any isolated output voltage in two
Click to expand...
stages. That's weak, you should be able to do it in one stage, ur one loop.
Regards
Harry
 
On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:27:22 +0100, Genome wrote:

"Active8" <reply2group@ndbbm.net> wrote in message
news:1f36bo0g3cw5h.dlg@news.individual.net...
| On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:18:12 +0100, Genome wrote:
|
|
| That's a lot of bs to go through to get a pdf file. I found a few
| free tools but google pdf995. That's one thing I installed. IIRC,
| it's a virtual printer driver that saves as pdf. I also got a few
| other things that let me turn html pages into pdfs and search within
| pdfs without using acrosplat. can't remember the other tools and
| haven't had the need to get to know them yet.
| --
| Best Regards,
| Mike

Ghostscript is a bit dossy but when you get used to it it does the job
and it's free. Part of the pleasure came from working out how to do
things. It works and does a pretty good job too.

Bear in mind that this is my first venture into PDFs. I did hunt for
things and pdf995 came up but I was bothered about the true freeness of
it. I remember someone mentioning that it smeared adverts and watermarks
all over the place unless you paid some money for it.

Cheers

DNA
Click to expand...
Not sure about HOH marks, but yes, I do remember now that when you
save the file, a browser opens and brings up an advert. YOu can get
a hosts file ( google "hosts file" ) that redirects known ad sites
to local host where they can't be found, but I digress. pdf995 may
pop up ads not in that hosts file.

I suppose I should play with GS some.
--
Best Regards,
Mike
 
Harry Dellamano wrote...
"Genome" wrote ...
I am considering using one of the UCC28510 IC's in a power factor
corrected power supply. Then I discovered that the application note
was a piece of shit. In particular when it comes to compensating
the voltage loop it is shit.

Hey Genome, The UCC28510 does PFC to any isolated output voltage
in two stages. That's weak, you should be able to do it in one
stage, ur one loop.
Click to expand...
OK, Harry, I'll bite, tell us how to do that. Use a full 85
to 260V rms ac input range, and take the case of no load to
full load, and also take the case of a shorted output.


Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com (use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)
 
"Winfield Hill" <Winfield_member@newsguy.com> a écrit dans le message news:
c6tqjt0h93@drn.newsguy.com...
Harry Dellamano wrote...

"Genome" wrote ...
I am considering using one of the UCC28510 IC's in a power factor
corrected power supply. Then I discovered that the application note
was a piece of shit. In particular when it comes to compensating
the voltage loop it is shit.

Hey Genome, The UCC28510 does PFC to any isolated output voltage
in two stages. That's weak, you should be able to do it in one
stage, ur one loop.

OK, Harry, I'll bite, tell us how to do that. Use a full 85
to 260V rms ac input range, and take the case of no load to
full load, and also take the case of a shorted output.
Click to expand...
I did it for a 250W (or was it 200W ?) with a zero input ripple Sepic.
Primary side auxiliray voltage regulation, 80-260V input range & 40V output.
With a (hem) clever snubber circuit it achieved 91-92% efficiency over
almost all the voltage range.
Gave 7-8% output reg for a 0 to full load or full load to 0 step and over
all the input range.
Was based on a hijacked ST 4981 controller plus a 339 for instantaneous peak
current clamp.
I don't think I've the schematics but I can dig out the paper(s) on which it
was based if you want.


Thanks,
Fred.
 
Fred Bartoli wrote...
I did it for a 250W (or was it 200W ?) with a zero input ripple Sepic.
Primary side auxiliray voltage regulation, 80-260V input range & 40V output.
With a (hem) clever snubber circuit it achieved 91-92% efficiency over
almost all the voltage range. Gave 7-8% output reg for a 0 to full load
or full load to 0 step and over all the input range. Was based on a
hijacked ST 4981 controller plus a 339 for instantaneous peak current clamp.
I don't think I've the schematics but I can dig out the paper(s) on which it
was based if you want.
Click to expand...
Please let us know what you can.


Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com (use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)
 
On 30 Apr 2004 08:16:13 -0700, Winfield Hill
<Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote:

OK, Harry, I'll bite, tell us how to do that. Use a full 85
to 260V rms ac input range, and take the case of no load to
full load, and also take the case of a shorted output.
Click to expand...
PFC Isolated forward Divan WEMPEC92-20
http://www.wempec.wisc.edu/reports/1992/92-20.PDF

An Isolated Full Bridge Boost Converter with Active Soft
Switching"
C. Qiao and K. Smedley,
IEEE Power Electronics Specialists Conference, June 2001.
http://www.eng.uci.edu/~smedley/pesc01-isoboost.pdf

"Application of Duality Principle to Synthesis of Single-Stage
Power-Factor-Correction Voltage Regulators,"
C.K. Tse, Y.M. Lai, R.J. Xie and M.H.L. Chow,
International Journal of Circuit Theory and Applications, vol. 31, no.
6, pp. 555--570, November 2003
http://www.eie.polyu.edu.hk/~cktse/pdf-paper/IJCTA-0311-Tse.pdf

"A Family of PFC Voltage Regulator Configurations with Reduced
Redundant Power Processing,"
C.K. Tse, M.H.L. Chow and M.K.H. Cheung,
IEEE Transactions on Power Electronics, vol. 16, no. 6, pp.794-802,
November 2001
http://www.eie.polyu.edu.hk/~cktse/pdf-paper/PE-0111.pdf

"Single-Stage Single-Switch PFC Regulator with Unity Power Factor,
Fast Transient Response and Low Voltage Stress,"
M.H.L. Chow, Y.S. Lee and C.K. Tse,
IEEE Transactions on Power Electronics, vol.15, no. 1, pp. 156-163,
January 2000.
http://www.eie.polyu.edu.hk/~cktse/pdf-paper/PE-0001.pdf

"New Single-Stage PFC Regulator Using the Sheppard-Taylor Topology",
C.K. Tse and M.H.L. Chow,
IEEE Transactions on Power Electronics, vol. 13, no. 5, pp. 842-851,
September 1998.
http://www.eie.polyu.edu.hk/~cktse/pdf-paper/PE-9809.pdf

and many others at this link
http://cktse.eie.polyu.edu.hk/~cktse/publist/publist/index.html#powere


When you combine pfc with isolation you get nasty peak-to-rms values
in the isolation transformer and all attached semiconductors.

Which doesn't mean you can't do it.

Pretty much anything that's transformer-isolated can be made to deal
with output short circuits. Energy limiting might be questionable,
considering the size of PFC filter components.

RL
 
legg wrote...
PFC Isolated forward Divan WEMPEC92-20
http://www.wempec.wisc.edu/reports/1992/92-20.PDF

An Isolated Full Bridge Boost Converter with Active Soft
Switching" C. Qiao and K. Smedley,
IEEE Power Electronics Specialists Conference, June 2001.
http://www.eng.uci.edu/~smedley/pesc01-isoboost.pdf

"Application of Duality Principle to Synthesis of Single-Stage
Power-Factor-Correction Voltage Regulators,"
C.K. Tse, Y.M. Lai, R.J. Xie and M.H.L. Chow,
International Journal of Circuit Theory and Applications,
vol. 31, no. 6, pp. 555--570, November 2003
http://www.eie.polyu.edu.hk/~cktse/pdf-paper/IJCTA-0311-Tse.pdf

"A Family of PFC Voltage Regulator Configurations with Reduced
Redundant Power Processing," C.K. Tse, M.H.L. Chow and M.K.H.
Cheung, IEEE Transactions on Power Electronics, vol. 16, no. 6,
pp.794-802, November 2001
http://www.eie.polyu.edu.hk/~cktse/pdf-paper/PE-0111.pdf

"Single-Stage Single-Switch PFC Regulator with Unity Power Factor,
Fast Transient Response and Low Voltage Stress,"
M.H.L. Chow, Y.S. Lee and C.K. Tse, IEEE Transactions on Power
Electronics, vol.15, no. 1, pp. 156-163, January 2000.
http://www.eie.polyu.edu.hk/~cktse/pdf-paper/PE-0001.pdf

"New Single-Stage PFC Regulator Using the Sheppard-Taylor Topology",
C.K. Tse and M.H.L. Chow, IEEE Transactions on Power Electronics,
vol. 13, no. 5, pp. 842-851, September 1998.
http://www.eie.polyu.edu.hk/~cktse/pdf-paper/PE-9809.pdf

and many others at this link
http://cktse.eie.polyu.edu.hk/~cktse/publist/publist/index.html#powere

When you combine pfc with isolation you get nasty peak-to-rms values
in the isolation transformer and all attached semiconductors.

Which doesn't mean you can't do it.

Pretty much anything that's transformer-isolated can be made to deal
with output short circuits. Energy limiting might be questionable,
considering the size of PFC filter components.

RL
Click to expand...
Wow, what a nice treasure-trove of good stuff!


Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com (use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)
 
"Winfield Hill" <Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:c6uadq0251n@drn.newsguy.com...
legg wrote...

PFC Isolated forward Divan WEMPEC92-20
http://www.wempec.wisc.edu/reports/1992/92-20.PDF

An Isolated Full Bridge Boost Converter with Active Soft
Switching" C. Qiao and K. Smedley,
IEEE Power Electronics Specialists Conference, June 2001.
http://www.eng.uci.edu/~smedley/pesc01-isoboost.pdf

"Application of Duality Principle to Synthesis of Single-Stage
Power-Factor-Correction Voltage Regulators,"
C.K. Tse, Y.M. Lai, R.J. Xie and M.H.L. Chow,
International Journal of Circuit Theory and Applications,
vol. 31, no. 6, pp. 555--570, November 2003
http://www.eie.polyu.edu.hk/~cktse/pdf-paper/IJCTA-0311-Tse.pdf

"A Family of PFC Voltage Regulator Configurations with Reduced
Redundant Power Processing," C.K. Tse, M.H.L. Chow and M.K.H.
Cheung, IEEE Transactions on Power Electronics, vol. 16, no. 6,
pp.794-802, November 2001
http://www.eie.polyu.edu.hk/~cktse/pdf-paper/PE-0111.pdf

"Single-Stage Single-Switch PFC Regulator with Unity Power Factor,
Fast Transient Response and Low Voltage Stress,"
M.H.L. Chow, Y.S. Lee and C.K. Tse, IEEE Transactions on Power
Electronics, vol.15, no. 1, pp. 156-163, January 2000.
http://www.eie.polyu.edu.hk/~cktse/pdf-paper/PE-0001.pdf

"New Single-Stage PFC Regulator Using the Sheppard-Taylor Topology",
C.K. Tse and M.H.L. Chow, IEEE Transactions on Power Electronics,
vol. 13, no. 5, pp. 842-851, September 1998.
http://www.eie.polyu.edu.hk/~cktse/pdf-paper/PE-9809.pdf

and many others at this link
http://cktse.eie.polyu.edu.hk/~cktse/publist/publist/index.html#powere

When you combine pfc with isolation you get nasty peak-to-rms values
in the isolation transformer and all attached semiconductors.

Which doesn't mean you can't do it.

Pretty much anything that's transformer-isolated can be made to deal
with output short circuits. Energy limiting might be questionable,
considering the size of PFC filter components.

RL

Wow, what a nice treasure-trove of good stuff!


Thanks,
- Win

Hey Win, am I still in the barrel for that design or did I get saved again.
Click to expand...
If not, let's get a full requirement from DNA and see who comes with the
best design. I need a good challenge and you can use all that paper from RL.

Regards
Harry
 
Harry Dellamano wrote...
Hey Win, am I still in the barrel for that design or did I get saved again.
If not, let's get a full requirement from DNA and see who comes with the
best design. I need a good challenge and you can use all that paper from RL.
Click to expand...
You're asking me? I got the papers, but my brain turned to mush.
I certainly belay my request that you "tell us how to do that."


Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com (use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)
 
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