Pen-Plot Track as Continuous Line?? Protel 99SE

M

mike

Guest
Pen-Plot Track as Continuous Line?? Protel 99SE

I'm trying to plot on copper to make circuit boards.
I need 8 mil lines to a TQFP-64-1010.
Yes, I know it's a stretch, but it's almost working...

Protel outputs Gerber. I translate the Gerber to run the
plotter.

If line segments are plotted
individually, there are distortions where segments
meet and the pen picks up partially dried ink that
makes subsequent lines wider.

I'm thinking I could solve most of this by plotting
each track in one continuous line. By messing with the
layers, I can separate tracks from pads and plot groups
separately in sequence with different pens.

The thing that's missing is connecting the line segments.
Selecting vector and optimization in the cam menu doesn't do it.
I could sort the gerber and connect the segments, but that's
a major undertaking.

Is there a simpler way to do this? I'd hate to go to
all this effort and find out all I needed was to check a box
or download an existing utility.

Again, Instead of line segments plotted out of order,
I want the whole track to be plotted without lifting the pen.

Thanks, mike

--
Return address is VALID.
500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 $2200
http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/te.html
Wanted, 12.1" LCD for Gateway Solo 5300. Samsung LT121SU-121
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/
 
Simon Peacock wrote:
I hate to bring you bad news... but it'll cost you less than $10 to take it
down to a professional printer and have them print it on a nice 1200 dpi
laser printer so why bother ???
Click to expand...
Why bother to read the original posting? Well, we do that so we can
make relevant input.

I'm plotting on copper. Most laser printers won't print on conductive
material. Most can't handle tiny squares of .062" circuit board
material. And yes, $10 is EXTREMELY bad news.

But thanks for the input.
mike

Simon

"mike" <spamme0@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:41976DF2.5020301@netscape.net...

Pen-Plot Track as Continuous Line?? Protel 99SE

I'm trying to plot on copper to make circuit boards.
I need 8 mil lines to a TQFP-64-1010.
Yes, I know it's a stretch, but it's almost working...

Protel outputs Gerber. I translate the Gerber to run the
plotter.

If line segments are plotted
individually, there are distortions where segments
meet and the pen picks up partially dried ink that
makes subsequent lines wider.

I'm thinking I could solve most of this by plotting
each track in one continuous line. By messing with the
layers, I can separate tracks from pads and plot groups
separately in sequence with different pens.

The thing that's missing is connecting the line segments.
Selecting vector and optimization in the cam menu doesn't do it.
I could sort the gerber and connect the segments, but that's
a major undertaking.

Is there a simpler way to do this? I'd hate to go to
all this effort and find out all I needed was to check a box
or download an existing utility.

Again, Instead of line segments plotted out of order,
I want the whole track to be plotted without lifting the pen.

Thanks, mike

--
Return address is VALID.
500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 $2200
http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/te.html
Wanted, 12.1" LCD for Gateway Solo 5300. Samsung LT121SU-121
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/
Click to expand...


--
Return address is VALID.
500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 $2200
http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/te.html
Wanted, 12.1" LCD for Gateway Solo 5300. Samsung LT121SU-121
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/
 
"mike" <spamme0@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:41976DF2.5020301@netscape.net...
Pen-Plot Track as Continuous Line?? Protel 99SE

I'm trying to plot on copper to make circuit boards.
I need 8 mil lines to a TQFP-64-1010.
Yes, I know it's a stretch, but it's almost working...

Protel outputs Gerber. I translate the Gerber to run the
plotter.
Click to expand...
The Pulsonix software I use will output HPGL.

Leon
 
Leon Heller wrote:
"mike" <spamme0@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:41976DF2.5020301@netscape.net...

Pen-Plot Track as Continuous Line?? Protel 99SE

I'm trying to plot on copper to make circuit boards.
I need 8 mil lines to a TQFP-64-1010.
Yes, I know it's a stretch, but it's almost working...

Protel outputs Gerber. I translate the Gerber to run the
plotter.


The Pulsonix software I use will output HPGL.

I don't have a problem with the format. It's the order
Click to expand...
that the trace segments come out that's the issue.
I'm using Protel, not Pulsonix.
Thanks, mike

Leon
Click to expand...


--
Return address is VALID.
500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 $2200
http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/te.html
Wanted, 12.1" LCD for Gateway Solo 5300. Samsung LT121SU-121
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/
 
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 06:38:42 -0800, mike <spamme0@netscape.net> wrote:

Pen-Plot Track as Continuous Line?? Protel 99SE

Hi,
Click to expand...
I would also like to have an answer to your question.
What does help, is to misrepresent the pen thickness, say 1mil thinner
than it actually is, so the plotter have to go over the track twice.
Non-contact spray inkjet technology would be nice, but would probably
cost too much. I have not come across any DIY or kit type of method
for this.
On the other hand, I have not looked into the Gerber output as yet,
perhaps it would not be too much to write a program to order the
Gerber output as you would like. Can you post some examples of how the
original and the re-arranged compare? Which files must be scanned and
re-arranged? Examples please.
Do far I have used Tango DOS, but is going over to Protel 99.
Regards
Johan Smit
 
I hate to bring you bad news... but it'll cost you less than $10 to take it
down to a professional printer and have them print it on a nice 1200 dpi
laser printer so why bother ???

Simon

"mike" <spamme0@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:41976DF2.5020301@netscape.net...
Pen-Plot Track as Continuous Line?? Protel 99SE

I'm trying to plot on copper to make circuit boards.
I need 8 mil lines to a TQFP-64-1010.
Yes, I know it's a stretch, but it's almost working...

Protel outputs Gerber. I translate the Gerber to run the
plotter.

If line segments are plotted
individually, there are distortions where segments
meet and the pen picks up partially dried ink that
makes subsequent lines wider.

I'm thinking I could solve most of this by plotting
each track in one continuous line. By messing with the
layers, I can separate tracks from pads and plot groups
separately in sequence with different pens.

The thing that's missing is connecting the line segments.
Selecting vector and optimization in the cam menu doesn't do it.
I could sort the gerber and connect the segments, but that's
a major undertaking.

Is there a simpler way to do this? I'd hate to go to
all this effort and find out all I needed was to check a box
or download an existing utility.

Again, Instead of line segments plotted out of order,
I want the whole track to be plotted without lifting the pen.

Thanks, mike

--
Return address is VALID.
500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 $2200
http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/te.html
Wanted, 12.1" LCD for Gateway Solo 5300. Samsung LT121SU-121
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/
Click to expand...
 
Jamie wrote:
mike wrote:

Simon Peacock wrote:

I hate to bring you bad news... but it'll cost you less than $10 to
take it
down to a professional printer and have them print it on a nice 1200 dpi
laser printer so why bother ???



Why bother to read the original posting? Well, we do that so we can
make relevant input.

I'm plotting on copper. Most laser printers won't print on conductive
material. Most can't handle tiny squares of .062" circuit board
material. And yes, $10 is EXTREMELY bad news.

But thanks for the input.
mike


Simon


i my self have a X,Y,Z plotter table that i designed a spray head for
that will project blue dye at very small sizes using a controlled
dc Motor for jet and retract, its connected to a mini barrow with has a
very small drill bit used as a screw pump which forces that through a
jet hole on the end cap. the Z position of the table when set up starts
will go down until it makes contact with the board which has a ground
connection on it, then it retracts aprox 0.005. from there on, current
sensing is used to maintain distance and acknowledgment of the blue dye
making contact with the surface when it its requires to spray depending
on the foil cad print.
small amounts of voltage is used that conducts via the ink stream.
the set distance current point is remembered in case different batches
of dye causes current changes.
this system works vary well, and i can say that other than now and then
the jets plugging up (which i have firm wire in the interface that
allows me to correct on the fly) its a good way to place the image on
the surface how ever, its not that fast! //
THe second alternative that i use and works well enough for simple
things including double sided is a Laser printer on Photo paper.
you simply print at darkness level, iron. then wash paper off.
actually, paper can be used but it a little harder to remove due to
fibers hanging out.
Click to expand...
Way cool!!!
Can you put some numbers on the spray head technique?
How small is small? I'm trying to plot 8mil tracks on 20 mil centers.
Got any pictures and more detail on construction of the spray head?
I already have the xyz.

Tell me more about the laser printer on photo paper.
I can't seem to get the clay coating off the board.
The traces look ok, the paper comes off, but the clay coating
stays stuck in the tiny spaces between tracks.
I'm using the Staples Picture Paper that's touted on the web
as the best for this kind of thing. Tried other stuff with lesser
success.

Been experimenting with electrostatic toner transfer. Bunch of that
currently in discussion at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/messages

Thanks, mike

--
Return address is VALID.
500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 $2200
http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/te.html
Wanted, 12.1" LCD for Gateway Solo 5300. Samsung LT121SU-121
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/
 
Johan Smit wrote:
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 06:38:42 -0800, mike <spamme0@netscape.net> wrote:


Pen-Plot Track as Continuous Line?? Protel 99SE


Hi,
I would also like to have an answer to your question.
What does help, is to misrepresent the pen thickness, say 1mil thinner
than it actually is, so the plotter have to go over the track twice.
Click to expand...
That usually works. The problem with this layout is that if I try to
make the pen thickness smaller than 10 mil I get a Big fat line
where 16 TQFP pads used to be on two sides of the chip. Other two sides
are fine???

Non-contact spray inkjet technology would be nice, but would probably
cost too much. I have not come across any DIY or kit type of method
for this.
On the other hand, I have not looked into the Gerber output as yet,
perhaps it would not be too much to write a program to order the
Gerber output as you would like. Can you post some examples of how the
original and the re-arranged compare? Which files must be scanned and
re-arranged? Examples please.
Do far I have used Tango DOS, but is going over to Protel 99.
Regards
Johan Smit
Click to expand...

I thought it was going to be conceptually trivial. Just scan the gerber
and sort into groups
of "draw" points. Then go find start and end points that match up.
Resequence the groups removing the extraneous "moves". This makes the
assumption that the cad program does indeed match points at the
beginning and ends of line segments making up a track. I'm not at all
sure that's a valid assumption. I'm getting line breaks at some corners
when I plot with a 0.2mm pen.
If it just gets close and expects the aperture width to make it connect,
the problem gets more complex.

I'm both dyslexic and feeble minded. Would take me weeks to get
all the bugs out ;-(

The cad program knows how the segments of the track connect. That's the
right place to fix it.

Eagle has some interesting tools to get inside the database and do
anything you want. I didn't give it a fair test, but I was initially
unimipressed with the autorouter in Eagle.

Sure would be nice to have a tool that did every step of the process
well...and was free!!!!

mike
--
Return address is VALID.
500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 $2200
http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/te.html
Wanted, 12.1" LCD for Gateway Solo 5300. Samsung LT121SU-121
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/
 
mike wrote:

Simon Peacock wrote:

I hate to bring you bad news... but it'll cost you less than $10 to
take it
down to a professional printer and have them print it on a nice 1200 dpi
laser printer so why bother ???


Why bother to read the original posting? Well, we do that so we can
make relevant input.

I'm plotting on copper. Most laser printers won't print on conductive
material. Most can't handle tiny squares of .062" circuit board
material. And yes, $10 is EXTREMELY bad news.

But thanks for the input.
mike


Simon
Click to expand...
i my self have a X,Y,Z plotter table that i designed a spray head for
that will project blue dye at very small sizes using a controlled
dc Motor for jet and retract, its connected to a mini barrow with has a
very small drill bit used as a screw pump which forces that through a
jet hole on the end cap. the Z position of the table when set up starts
will go down until it makes contact with the board which has a ground
connection on it, then it retracts aprox 0.005. from there on, current
sensing is used to maintain distance and acknowledgment of the blue dye
making contact with the surface when it its requires to spray depending
on the foil cad print.
small amounts of voltage is used that conducts via the ink stream.
the set distance current point is remembered in case different batches
of dye causes current changes.
this system works vary well, and i can say that other than now and then
the jets plugging up (which i have firm wire in the interface that
allows me to correct on the fly) its a good way to place the image on
the surface how ever, its not that fast! //
THe second alternative that i use and works well enough for simple
things including double sided is a Laser printer on Photo paper.
you simply print at darkness level, iron. then wash paper off.
actually, paper can be used but it a little harder to remove due to
fibers hanging out.
 
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