pcb printing

[Michael (Micksa) Slade]

Pretty soon I plan to get a bunch of equipment to make PCBs using
photoresist & laser printed transparencies etc.

I have the laser printer already, and I did a test to check its
stretching. I got a graphics prog to draw a square of 15cm or so, and
measured each side.

The horizontal side turned out pretty much exact, but the vertical was
151mm or so.

Can I work with this? will vertical stretching of the board layout by 7%
or so cause trouble for me? Or should I look into fixing this printer, or
getting a new one?

Can anyone recommend a (not too expensive) printer? Preferrably one
that's linux-friendly

Lastly, does anyone have a service manual for a canon LBP-800?

Mick.

--
My email address is "micksa@", not "micksa-news@".
VOTE [1] CAPITAL PUNISHMENT FOR SPAMMERS

 

[Sylvain Munaut]

Michael (Micksa) Slade wrote:

Pretty soon I plan to get a bunch of equipment to make PCBs using
photoresist & laser printed transparencies etc.

I have the laser printer already, and I did a test to check its
stretching. I got a graphics prog to draw a square of 15cm or so, and
measured each side.

The horizontal side turned out pretty much exact, but the vertical was
151mm or so.

Can I work with this? will vertical stretching of the board layout by 7%
or so cause trouble for me? Or should I look into fixing this printer, or
getting a new one?

7% Is too big to be usable.

However, 1/150 = 0.7 % ...

0.7% should be OK for most part, unless you have very fine pitch stuff.
If the distortion is constant, you can compensate in software. Export in high-res
image, then shrink it by 0.7% in vertical direction then print.


Sylvain

 

[Roger Hamlett]

"Michael (Micksa) Slade" <micksa-news@knobbits.org> wrote in message
newsan.2004.10.27.09.45.23.333331@knobbits.org...

Pretty soon I plan to get a bunch of equipment to make PCBs using
photoresist & laser printed transparencies etc.

I have the laser printer already, and I did a test to check its
stretching. I got a graphics prog to draw a square of 15cm or so, and
measured each side.

The horizontal side turned out pretty much exact, but the vertical was
151mm or so.

Can I work with this? will vertical stretching of the board layout by
7%
or so cause trouble for me? Or should I look into fixing this printer,
or
getting a new one?
Redo your calculation. The stretching is under 0.7% (it is less than 1mm

in a hundred, so _must_ be less than 1%). As such, it will be fine for
most things (7%, would be unacceptable).

Can anyone recommend a (not too expensive) printer? Preferrably one
that's linux-friendly

Lastly, does anyone have a service manual for a canon LBP-800?
It is allmost certainly just because the paper is being bent when printed.

As such, it will change with the media (are you printing the test, on
paper, or plastic?).

Best Wishes

 

[CBarn24050]

Subject: pcb printing
From: "Michael (Micksa) Slade" micksa-news@knobbits.org
Date: 27/10/2004 10:58 GMT Standard Time
Message-id: <pan.2004.10.27.09.45.23.333331@knobbits.org

Pretty soon I plan to get a bunch of equipment to make PCBs using
photoresist & laser printed transparencies etc.

I have the laser printer already, and I did a test to check its
stretching. I got a graphics prog to draw a square of 15cm or so, and
measured each side.



The horizontal side turned out pretty much exact, but the vertical was
151mm or so.

Can I work with this? will vertical stretching of the board layout by 7%
or so cause trouble for me? Or should I look into fixing this printer, or
getting a new one?

Can anyone recommend a (not too expensive) printer? Preferrably one
that's linux-friendly

Lastly, does anyone have a service manual for a canon LBP-800?

Mick.

i woudnt bother with laser prints, not only do you have dimension problems but
the density isn't good enough for anything but the crudest pcbs. Get a local
pcb company to do you some photoplots.

 

[Mike Harrison]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:58:42 GMT, "Michael (Micksa) Slade" <micksa-news@knobbits.org> wrote:

Pretty soon I plan to get a bunch of equipment to make PCBs using
photoresist & laser printed transparencies etc.

I have the laser printer already, and I did a test to check its
stretching. I got a graphics prog to draw a square of 15cm or so, and
measured each side.

The horizontal side turned out pretty much exact, but the vertical was
151mm or so.

Can I work with this? will vertical stretching of the board layout by 7%
or so cause trouble for me? Or should I look into fixing this printer, or
getting a new one?

Can anyone recommend a (not too expensive) printer? Preferrably one
that's linux-friendly

Lastly, does anyone have a service manual for a canon LBP-800?

If it's consistent could you re-scale the artwork to compensate?
What media are you using - if you're using plastic film of any sort this may be the problem.
Tracing paper (heavy, >90gsm) is by far the best thing for doing PCB artwork on lasers.

 

[Frithiof Andreas Jensen]

"Michael (Micksa) Slade" <micksa-news@knobbits.org> wrote in message
newsan.2004.10.27.09.45.23.333331@knobbits.org...

Pretty soon I plan to get a bunch of equipment to make PCBs using
photoresist & laser printed transparencies etc.

I wouldn't bother with all that at all!!!

Because: Once you got all the chemicals and equipment together you will have
spent a significant sum of money and a lot of time. It then takes more time
to get the process right to yield mediocre results. Life is too short.

Send it off to one of the new small-series print manufacturers that are on
the net and get a professionally made board back in the mail 1-3 weeks
later. The sooner, the dearer.

I don't know where you are - here in Denmark I have had consistently good
results with PCB-pool; http://www.pcbpool.com .

 

[Paul Burridge]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:06:05 +0100, "Leon Heller"
<leon_heller@hotmail.com> wrote:

I use a LaserJet 5P that I bought cheap on eBay for creating PCB artwork. I
only make smallish PCBs (biggest has been 100 mm by 160 mm) so distortion
doesn't really matter, especially as the components tend to be quite small
these days. The Pulsonix software I use would allow me to adjust the hor.
and vert. scale if I wanted to.

Did you ever upgrade to the full version, Leon? I was wondering if it
was worth the extra money.
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

 

[Leon Heller]

"Paul Burridge" <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4410o09eub05aksf61tghnr492ujsfksh2@4ax.com...

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:06:05 +0100, "Leon Heller"
leon_heller@hotmail.com> wrote:

I use a LaserJet 5P that I bought cheap on eBay for creating PCB artwork.
I
only make smallish PCBs (biggest has been 100 mm by 160 mm) so distortion
doesn't really matter, especially as the components tend to be quite small
these days. The Pulsonix software I use would allow me to adjust the hor.
and vert. scale if I wanted to.

Did you ever upgrade to the full version, Leon? I was wondering if it
was worth the extra money.

I've used the full version since it first came out. I'm one of their beta
testers so I get all the optional packages and get to try out each new
version.

Leon

 

[Leon Heller]

http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
"Michael (Micksa) Slade" <micksa-news@knobbits.org> wrote in message
newsan.2004.10.27.09.45.23.333331@knobbits.org...

Pretty soon I plan to get a bunch of equipment to make PCBs using
photoresist & laser printed transparencies etc.

Join this group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM

 

[nospam]

"Frithiof Andreas Jensen" <frithiof.jensen@die_spammer_die.ericsson.com>
wrote:

"Michael (Micksa) Slade" <micksa-news@knobbits.org> wrote in message
newsan.2004.10.27.09.45.23.333331@knobbits.org...
Pretty soon I plan to get a bunch of equipment to make PCBs using
photoresist & laser printed transparencies etc.

I wouldn't bother with all that at all!!!

Because: Once you got all the chemicals and equipment together you will have
spent a significant sum of money and a lot of time. It then takes more time
to get the process right to yield mediocre results. Life is too short.

Send it off to one of the new small-series print manufacturers that are on
the net and get a professionally made board back in the mail 1-3 weeks
later. The sooner, the dearer.

Life is too short, but, apparently long enough to wait 1-3 weeks for PCBS.

I can and have made PCBs in 1 hour. The most expensive parts of the setup
were a UV light box and a high speed drill + stand both of which have other
uses.

 

[CBarn24050]

Subject: Re: pcb printing
From: Mike Harrison mike@whitewing.co.uk
Date: 27/10/2004 15:01 GMT Standard Time
Message-id: <llavn01ie1t9jerfbe944bsf7eq035ecrc@4ax.com


i woudnt bother with laser prints, not only do you have dimension problems
but
the density isn't good enough for anything but the crudest pcbs. Get a local
pcb company to do you some photoplots
.
Not true.
Laser print on tracing paper and decent quality laminate can easily do 40
tracks per inch with no
defects.
see www.electricstuff.co.uk/pcbs.html for details

Well thats only 12thou traces, which is pretty crude by todays standards.

 

[Michael (Micksa) Slade]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:16:40 +0200, Frithiof Andreas Jensen wrote:

"Michael (Micksa) Slade" <micksa-news@knobbits.org> wrote in message
newsan.2004.10.27.09.45.23.333331@knobbits.org...
Pretty soon I plan to get a bunch of equipment to make PCBs using
photoresist & laser printed transparencies etc.

I wouldn't bother with all that at all!!!

Because: Once you got all the chemicals and equipment together you will have
spent a significant sum of money and a lot of time. It then takes more time
to get the process right to yield mediocre results. Life is too short.

Send it off to one of the new small-series print manufacturers that are on
the net and get a professionally made board back in the mail 1-3 weeks
later. The sooner, the dearer.

I don't know where you are - here in Denmark I have had consistently good
results with PCB-pool; http://www.pcbpool.com .

As stated in a previous post, 1-3 weeks is too long for some people. Also
money isn't the only issue

I really should remember to point at at the outset that I'm doing this for
fun, not for profit.

Mick.

--
My email address is "micksa@", not "micksa-news@".
VOTE [1] CAPITAL PUNISHMENT FOR SPAMMERS

 

[Frithiof Andreas Jensen]

"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> skrev i en meddelelse
news:9q50o0tlf2mmif82as0qhplbvjkibf9i26@4ax.com...

Life is too short, but, apparently long enough to wait 1-3 weeks for PCBS.

While *you* might prefer to watch the letter box ... *I* would probably take
a bicycle trip, go to the movies, do some work on the house or maybe even a
shopping expedition to Germany ;-)

I can and have made PCBs in 1 hour. The most expensive parts of the setup
were a UV light box and a high speed drill + stand both of which have
other
uses.

Been there before - glad that I do not have to anymore.

 

[Mark Zenier]

In article <pan.2004.10.27.09.45.23.333331@knobbits.org>,
Michael (Micksa) Slade <micksa-news@knobbits.org> wrote:

Pretty soon I plan to get a bunch of equipment to make PCBs using
photoresist & laser printed transparencies etc.

I have the laser printer already, and I did a test to check its
stretching. I got a graphics prog to draw a square of 15cm or so, and
measured each side.

The horizontal side turned out pretty much exact, but the vertical was
151mm or so.

Can I work with this? will vertical stretching of the board layout by 7%
or so cause trouble for me? Or should I look into fixing this printer, or
getting a new one?

Can anyone recommend a (not too expensive) printer? Preferrably one
that's linux-friendly

Lastly, does anyone have a service manual for a canon LBP-800?

Check the docs for the printer spooler that you use or the docs and
source for the printer driver. (The CUPS spooler has scale factors
in the command line print programs, but only to a 1 % resolution).
If the driver for that printer uses Ghostscript for the Postscript/PDF
to raster/bitmap conversion (like they do for HP printers), you could
dig in and tweek the driver script to set the printer resolution or
adjust a scale factor for the one dimension.

Or use ImageMagick or the GIMP to scale the image.

Mark Zenier mzenier@eskimo.com Washington State resident

 

[YD]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:58:42 GMT, "Michael (Micksa) Slade"
<micksa-news@knobbits.org> wrote:

Pretty soon I plan to get a bunch of equipment to make PCBs using
photoresist & laser printed transparencies etc.

I have the laser printer already, and I did a test to check its
stretching. I got a graphics prog to draw a square of 15cm or so, and
measured each side.

The horizontal side turned out pretty much exact, but the vertical was
151mm or so.

Can I work with this? will vertical stretching of the board layout by 7%
or so cause trouble for me? Or should I look into fixing this printer, or
getting a new one?

As mentioned by others, that's 0.7%. Unless you use very large parts
(across the board) with very exact spacing it's nothing to worry
about. Using a 0.8 or 0.7 mm drill gives enough slop to push most
parts in without too much force. My process tends to be messier and
still been able to use up to 40 pin DIPs.

- YD.

--
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