PCB photo/etch chemicals

[Ade]

I'd like to, occasionally, make my own PCBs for "stuff". The key here is
"occasionally"...

I'm sort of assuming that, short of using a commercial fab house (which
is expensive), I'll either need to use a "pcb-in-a-bag" type kits, or
the various chemicals. I'm thinking that I can either do:

Fotoboard + etch resist remover + ferric chloride

or

Plain board + photoresist + resist remover + ferric chloride


Assuming one one of the above 3 options (bag, Fotoboard version or Plain
board version), which is likely to survive the longest under a cupboard
without the chemicals losing their ability?


--
Cheers, Ade. http://meddlingmonk.blogspot.com

"Your face reminds me of a roadkill's arsehole. Certainly not on my list
of things to kiss." - http://sleeptalkinman.blogspot.com

 

[Rich Webb]

On Wed, 26 May 2010 02:13:54 +0100, Ade <spam@solutionengineers.com>
wrote:

I'd like to, occasionally, make my own PCBs for "stuff". The key here is
"occasionally"...

I'm sort of assuming that, short of using a commercial fab house (which
is expensive), I'll either need to use a "pcb-in-a-bag" type kits, or
the various chemicals. I'm thinking that I can either do:

Fotoboard + etch resist remover + ferric chloride

or

Plain board + photoresist + resist remover + ferric chloride


Assuming one one of the above 3 options (bag, Fotoboard version or Plain
board version), which is likely to survive the longest under a cupboard
without the chemicals losing their ability?

You might consider the Press'n'Peel Blue stuff, used with the laser
printer toner transfer technique. The sheets should be shelf stable as
long as they're kept in the package and away from dust, debris, and
excessive cat hairs.

The most consistent results are probably obtained with a fuser, like a
GBC laminator, although some folks report doing just fine with only an
ordinary clothes iron. One could also use inkjet glossy photo paper
(printed in the laser) as the transfer medium but that's a bit messier
since the photo paper needs to be soaked loose in water.

I get clean 10/10 results with the P'n'P medium, although 15/15 is more
comfortable.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

 

[Ade]

bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten did gone and wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2010 02:13:54 +0100, Ade <spam@solutionengineers.com
wrote:

I'd like to, occasionally, make my own PCBs for "stuff". The key here is
"occasionally"...

I'm sort of assuming that, short of using a commercial fab house (which
is expensive), I'll either need to use a "pcb-in-a-bag" type kits, or
the various chemicals. I'm thinking that I can either do:

Fotoboard + etch resist remover + ferric chloride

or

Plain board + photoresist + resist remover + ferric chloride


Assuming one one of the above 3 options (bag, Fotoboard version or Plain
board version), which is likely to survive the longest under a cupboard
without the chemicals losing their ability?

You might consider the Press'n'Peel Blue stuff, used with the laser
printer toner transfer technique. The sheets should be shelf stable as
long as they're kept in the package and away from dust, debris, and
excessive cat hairs.

Good idea, yes, thanks. I'd read up about that stuff recently, but
forgot about it when I posted. Ta for the reminder.

The most consistent results are probably obtained with a fuser, like a
GBC laminator, although some folks report doing just fine with only an
ordinary clothes iron. One could also use inkjet glossy photo paper
(printed in the laser) as the transfer medium but that's a bit messier
since the photo paper needs to be soaked loose in water.

The only hassle I've seen mentioned about the laminator is it needs the
extra-thin boards, a full 1.6mm double-sided fibreboard won't go through
it (according to the specs, at least).

I get clean 10/10 results with the P'n'P medium, although 15/15 is more
comfortable.

Apologies, I'm not familiar with what 10/10 or 15/15 mean? Is it the
width of tracks/gaps in microns?


--
Cheers, Ade. http://meddlingmonk.blogspot.com

"Your face reminds me of a roadkill's arsehole. Certainly not on my list
of things to kiss." - http://sleeptalkinman.blogspot.com

 

[Rich Webb]

On Wed, 26 May 2010 23:41:26 +0100, Ade <spam@solutionengineers.com>
wrote:

bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten did gone and wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2010 02:13:54 +0100, Ade <spam@solutionengineers.com
wrote:

I'd like to, occasionally, make my own PCBs for "stuff". The key here is
"occasionally"...

I'm sort of assuming that, short of using a commercial fab house (which
is expensive), I'll either need to use a "pcb-in-a-bag" type kits, or
the various chemicals. I'm thinking that I can either do:

Fotoboard + etch resist remover + ferric chloride

or

Plain board + photoresist + resist remover + ferric chloride


Assuming one one of the above 3 options (bag, Fotoboard version or Plain
board version), which is likely to survive the longest under a cupboard
without the chemicals losing their ability?

You might consider the Press'n'Peel Blue stuff, used with the laser
printer toner transfer technique. The sheets should be shelf stable as
long as they're kept in the package and away from dust, debris, and
excessive cat hairs.

Good idea, yes, thanks. I'd read up about that stuff recently, but
forgot about it when I posted. Ta for the reminder.

The most consistent results are probably obtained with a fuser, like a
GBC laminator, although some folks report doing just fine with only an
ordinary clothes iron. One could also use inkjet glossy photo paper
(printed in the laser) as the transfer medium but that's a bit messier
since the photo paper needs to be soaked loose in water.

The only hassle I've seen mentioned about the laminator is it needs the
extra-thin boards, a full 1.6mm double-sided fibreboard won't go through
it (according to the specs, at least).

Once upon a time, the folks over at Pulsar
http://www.pulsarprofx.com/PCBfx/main_site/pages/index.html
had instructions on how to modify a GBC H200 model laminator to accept
standard 1/16" (1.6mm) stock. I looked around over there and those
instructions are long gone, as well as that laminator model. A link at
http://www.picbasic.org/showthread.php/51159-.032-Pcb suggests that
there was a UK model "GBC Docuseal 95P laminator" that may have been
equivalent and *if* you can find one in working condition, we may be
able to find or re-engineer the mods necessary.

<clickty click> Aha! http://www.qsl.net/ve2emm/pcb/pcb_mach_mod_e.html

For what it's worth, I did the mod and it does work with 1/16" now, but
I have found that I actually prefer using 1/32" (0.8mm) material. It
cuts with tin snips (or even heavy scissors) and there is less mess from
drilling.

I get clean 10/10 results with the P'n'P medium, although 15/15 is more
comfortable.

Apologies, I'm not familiar with what 10/10 or 15/15 mean? Is it the
width of tracks/gaps in microns?

Yes, but in US-ian mils (thousandths of an inch).

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Ade <spam@solutionengineers.com> wrote:

I'd like to, occasionally, make my own PCBs for "stuff". The key here is
"occasionally"...

I'm sort of assuming that, short of using a commercial fab house (which
is expensive), I'll either need to use a "pcb-in-a-bag" type kits, or
the various chemicals. I'm thinking that I can either do:

Fotoboard + etch resist remover + ferric chloride

or

Plain board + photoresist + resist remover + ferric chloride


Assuming one one of the above 3 options (bag, Fotoboard version or Plain
board version), which is likely to survive the longest under a cupboard
without the chemicals losing their ability?

the ferric chloride is good forever. just check the container from time to
time. sometimes they do weird things like shrink or look sucked in.

 

[RST Engineering]

On Wed, 26 May 2010 02:13:54 +0100, Ade <spam@solutionengineers.com>
wrote:

I'd like to, occasionally, make my own PCBs for "stuff". The key here is
"occasionally"...

I'm sort of assuming that, short of using a commercial fab house (which
is expensive), I'll either need to use a "pcb-in-a-bag" type kits, or
the various chemicals. I'm thinking that I can either do:

The best etchant I've ever used "d-i-y" is muriatic acid (from the
handyman store) activated 5:1 with hydrogen peroxide (from the drug
store).

Toss a steel wool pad it in when you are done. The copper will
eventually plate out onto the steel and the remaining spent etchant is
not a hasmat.

Relatively benign chemistry and nickels and dimes to buy.

Jim

 

[Ade]

jweir43@gmail.com did gone and wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2010 02:13:54 +0100, Ade <spam@solutionengineers.com
wrote:

I'd like to, occasionally, make my own PCBs for "stuff". The key here is
"occasionally"...

I'm sort of assuming that, short of using a commercial fab house (which
is expensive), I'll either need to use a "pcb-in-a-bag" type kits, or
the various chemicals. I'm thinking that I can either do:

The best etchant I've ever used "d-i-y" is muriatic acid (from the
handyman store) activated 5:1 with hydrogen peroxide (from the drug
store).

OK, thanks. Can you give me an idea what products muriatic acid is in?
Also, what concentration of h2o2? ta.

--
Cheers, Ade. http://meddlingmonk.blogspot.com

"Your face reminds me of a roadkill's arsehole. Certainly not on my list
of things to kiss." - http://sleeptalkinman.blogspot.com

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Ade wrote:

jweir43@gmail.com did gone and wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2010 02:13:54 +0100, Ade <spam@solutionengineers.com
wrote:

I'd like to, occasionally, make my own PCBs for "stuff". The key here is
"occasionally"...

I'm sort of assuming that, short of using a commercial fab house (which
is expensive), I'll either need to use a "pcb-in-a-bag" type kits, or
the various chemicals. I'm thinking that I can either do:

The best etchant I've ever used "d-i-y" is muriatic acid (from the
handyman store) activated 5:1 with hydrogen peroxide (from the drug
store).

OK, thanks. Can you give me an idea what products muriatic acid is in?
Also, what concentration of h2o2? ta.

Muratic acid is the product. It's used to clean concrete and in
pools.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Pete Wilcox]

On Thu, 3 Jun 2010, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Muratic acid is the product. It's used to clean concrete and in
pools.

I've never seen the point, meself, in going to all the trouble of etching

a board for a one-off project. Stripboard is far cheaper, simpler and
quicker to use.

Cheers,
Pete.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Pete Wilcox wrote:

On Thu, 3 Jun 2010, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Muratic acid is the product. It's used to clean concrete and in
pools.

I've never seen the point, meself, in going to all the trouble of etching
a board for a one-off project. Stripboard is far cheaper, simpler and
quicker to use.

That's ok at lower frequencies, but can be a problem at UHF and up.
It would have been a real mess trying the when I built a C-band
modulator to test sat TV receivers about 20 years ago.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Ade <spam@solutionengineers.com> wrote:

jweir43@gmail.com did gone and wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2010 02:13:54 +0100, Ade <spam@solutionengineers.com
wrote:

I'd like to, occasionally, make my own PCBs for "stuff". The key here is
"occasionally"...

I'm sort of assuming that, short of using a commercial fab house (which
is expensive), I'll either need to use a "pcb-in-a-bag" type kits, or
the various chemicals. I'm thinking that I can either do:

The best etchant I've ever used "d-i-y" is muriatic acid (from the
handyman store) activated 5:1 with hydrogen peroxide (from the drug
store).

OK, thanks. Can you give me an idea what products muriatic acid is in?
Also, what concentration of h2o2? ta.

muriatic acid is hydrochloric acid. it's sold in 1 gallon jugs in the US
at hardare stores. I'm not sure of the concentration, but even the
smallest splashes will eat holes in clothing and burn skin.