PCB Design Software

[John Eric Voltin]

Can anyone recommend a good PCB design tool (schematics, PCB layout/routing,
Gerber file generation) with a price under $1,000? I have seen some of the
free PCB tools provided by board manufacturers, but they all seem to have
serious limitations.

I would need the ability to create multi-layer boards up to 6 layers with
ground and power planes. Generally, I am working on very simple boards.

I have previously worked with a designer that uses Protel and that had
plenty of capability for my needs.

Is there a web site that reviews such tools? I haven't found anything yet,
but I'll keep looking
--

- John

John Eric Voltin
Mechanical Engineer
Agile Technology
512-633-0394

 

[JeffM]

Can anyone recommend a good PCB design tool
John Eric Voltin

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.electronics.cad/search?group=sci.electronics.cad&q=PCB-Design-Software

 

[James T. White]

"John Eric Voltin" <jevoltin@agile-technology.com> wrote in message
news:avfze.133015$PR6.51216@tornado.texas.rr.com...

Can anyone recommend a good PCB design tool (schematics, PCB layout/routing,
Gerber file generation) with a price under $1,000? I have seen some of the
free PCB tools provided by board manufacturers, but they all seem to have
serious limitations.

I would need the ability to create multi-layer boards up to 6 layers with
ground and power planes. Generally, I am working on very simple boards.

I have previously worked with a designer that uses Protel and that had
plenty of capability for my needs.

Is there a web site that reviews such tools? I haven't found anything yet,
but I'll keep looking
--

- John

John Eric Voltin
Mechanical Engineer
Agile Technology
512-633-0394

I use Eagle and find that while it has some quirks, meets all of my needs. To
get the number of layers you are after you'll be looking at one of the Eagle
professional packages. Cost of the full package with autorouter is $1200USD
which is a little bit more than you indicated you are willing to spend, but a
lot less than Protel will cost you.

Terry Pinnell maintains a list of ECAD packages you should take a look at.

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/terrypin/ECADList.html

Good luck.

--
James T. White

 

In article <avfze.133015$PR6.51216@tornado.texas.rr.com>, John Eric
Voltin <jevoltin@agile-technology.com> writes

Can anyone recommend a good PCB design tool (schematics, PCB layout/routing,
Gerber file generation) with a price under $1,000? I have seen some of the
free PCB tools provided by board manufacturers, but they all seem to have
serious limitations.

I would need the ability to create multi-layer boards up to 6 layers with
ground and power planes. Generally, I am working on very simple boards.

I have previously worked with a designer that uses Protel and that had
plenty of capability for my needs.

Is there a web site that reviews such tools? I haven't found anything yet,
but I'll keep looking0
One option is Vutrax. Does all the things you suggest plus design

checking which I suggest you add to your features list anyway.
You don't mention operating system or capacity requirements.
You can download the 256 pin free issue for Windows or Linux
at either of
http://www.vutrax.co.uk (Main UK site)
http://www.protonique.com/vutrax (Central Europe Mirror)
Pricing for larger capacity bundles is on the site.
--
Roy Battell.
To use this address remove the digits included to remove Spam ...
Mail: news@vutrax666.co.uk

 

[Glassman]

JeffM wrote:

Can anyone recommend a good PCB design tool
John Eric Voltin


http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.electronics.cad/search?group=sci.electronics.cad&q=PCB-Design-Software

check out Proteus at http://www.labcenter.co.uk/

there are various levels:
http://www.labcenter.co.uk/products/pcb_overview.htm

at different prices:
Proteus PCB Design Starter Kit Ł150
Proteus PCB Design Level 1/1+ Ł295 / Ł395
Proteus PCB Design Level 2/2+ Ł595 / Ł995
Proteus PCB Design Level 3 Ł1225
Advanced Simulation Features Ł195

 

[fred*]

I'm just in the same case and just find (yesterday) Rimu :
http://www.hutson.co.nz/rimupcb.htm

I didn't do many tests yet with the demo version, but it really seem to be what I was looking for
and less than 200Euros..!!
and it even has some little things that could remind you of the Protel interface :
- Ctrl+wheelmouse for zooming
- middle button + drag for Panning (was right button on Protel)
...

 

[Leon]

Have a look at Easy-PC:

http://www.numberone.com

I used it for years.

Leon

 

[Paul Burridge]

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 03:25:46 GMT, jim dorey <skaar@ns.sympatico.ca>
wrote:

i like eagle, it's neato. soon as i figure out how to add parts i'll
really be steamin'.

I've not had any experience with PCB design s/ware, but one obvious
problem occurs: how does the program 'know' the dimensions of the
components you use? I mean, just about every 100pf capacitor (to take
just one example) I have is of a different size and pin-separation
distance. Do you have to set about measuring and tell the program the
sizes of all the parts you'll be using?
--

"I expect history will be kind to me, since I intend to write it."
- Winston Churchill

 

[Meindert Sprang]

"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fq7rtv0130pvm44jojth9jq31nq6sr9etd@4ax.com...

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 03:25:46 GMT, jim dorey <skaar@ns.sympatico.ca
wrote:

i like eagle, it's neato. soon as i figure out how to add parts i'll
really be steamin'.

I've not had any experience with PCB design s/ware, but one obvious
problem occurs: how does the program 'know' the dimensions of the
components you use? I mean, just about every 100pf capacitor (to take
just one example) I have is of a different size and pin-separation
distance. Do you have to set about measuring and tell the program the
sizes of all the parts you'll be using?

Yes. With the combo OrcadSDT and Orcad Layout (which I'm familiar with), you
draw a schematic first. Every part has a few property fields and the
physical shape (footprint) is one of them. Together with Layout comes a set
of libraries with footprints for thousands of components. If you create a
netlist from the schematic and set up a new board in layout, it starts a
process that asks you which footprint to attach to every component. This
process also forms a list of component-footprint combinations you chose, so
the next time you do this on a different project, layout automatically
chooses footprints that have been used before.
If you know what footprint to use for a specific component beforehand, you
can already fill in this field in the schematic editor. Also, when all
footprints are assigned in layout, you can do a backannotation which stuffs
all the used footprints into the schematic file.

Meindert

 

[Walter Harley]

"Meindert Sprang" <mhsprang@NOcustomSPAMware.nl> wrote in message
news:3fddada1$1@news.nb.nu...

Do you have to set about measuring and tell the program the
sizes of all the parts you'll be using?

Yes. With the combo OrcadSDT and Orcad Layout (which I'm familiar with),
you
draw a schematic first.

In Eagle, at the time of drawing the schematic, you have to choose a
package, which is annoying. But you can change it later during layout.

 

[JeffM]

i like eagle, it's neato.
soon as i figure out how to add parts i'll really be steamin'.
Jim Dorey

Google Groups isn't showing the OP, so I'll post here.
This guy can show you how:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=%22Kevin+Bolding%22+eagle+tutorial&btnG=Google+Search

 

[Simon Peacock]

"Walter Harley" <walterh@cafewalterNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:brkpdf$g22$0@216.39.172.65...

"Meindert Sprang" <mhsprang@NOcustomSPAMware.nl> wrote in message
news:3fddada1$1@news.nb.nu...
"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote [...]
Do you have to set about measuring and tell the program the
sizes of all the parts you'll be using?

Yes. With the combo OrcadSDT and Orcad Layout (which I'm familiar with),
you
draw a schematic first.


In Eagle, at the time of drawing the schematic, you have to choose a
package, which is annoying. But you can change it later during layout.

Welcome to the real world of CAD design.

Simon

P.S. I routinely spend the first week of a design creating new parts and
footprints.

 

[Wouter van Ooijen (www.vo]

Do you have to set about measuring and tell the program the
sizes of all the parts you'll be using?

What do you expect? You will have to tell the program the shape of the
component one way or the other. Luckily most programs come with an
extensive library of pre-defined parts from which you can choose. Too
bad most of these libraries suck.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- ------------------------------------
http://www.voti.nl
PICmicro chips, programmers, consulting

 

[Leon Heller]

Wouter van Ooijen (www.voti.nl) wrote:

Do you have to set about measuring and tell the program the
sizes of all the parts you'll be using?


What do you expect? You will have to tell the program the shape of the
component one way or the other. Luckily most programs come with an
extensive library of pre-defined parts from which you can choose. Too
bad most of these libraries suck.

Many manufacturers have recommended footprints on their web sites. You
probably need to modify them though if you are hand soldering, as they
are intended for reflow soldering.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com
My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM develpment system:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html

 

[Wouter van Ooijen (www.vo]

Many manufacturers have recommended footprints on their web sites. You
probably need to modify them though if you are hand soldering, as they
are intended for reflow soldering.

Have you ever seen a manufacturer providing eagle footprints?


Wouter van Ooijen

-- ------------------------------------
http://www.voti.nl
PICmicro chips, programmers, consulting

 

[Leon Heller]

Wouter van Ooijen (www.voti.nl) wrote:

Many manufacturers have recommended footprints on their web sites. You
probably need to modify them though if you are hand soldering, as they
are intended for reflow soldering.


Have you ever seen a manufacturer providing eagle footprints?

No, but I was referring to a detailed drawing of the footprint. The PCB
software I use (Pulsonix) has a wizard that enables me to create
footprints very quickly if the dimensions are known.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com
My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM development system:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html

 

[John Woodgate]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Wouter van Ooijen (www.voti.nl)
<wouter@voti.nl> wrote (in <3fe2e941.357700816@news.xs4all.nl&gt about
'PCB Design Software', on Fri, 19 Dec 2003:

Many manufacturers have recommended footprints on their web sites. You
probably need to modify them though if you are hand soldering, as they
are intended for reflow soldering.

Have you ever seen a manufacturer providing eagle footprints?

Deity of your choice? (;-)
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

 

[Andy Peters]

Paul Burridge <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote in message news:<fq7rtv0130pvm44jojth9jq31nq6sr9etd@4ax.com>...

I've not had any experience with PCB design s/ware, but one obvious
problem occurs: how does the program 'know' the dimensions of the
components you use? I mean, just about every 100pf capacitor (to take
just one example) I have is of a different size and pin-separation
distance. Do you have to set about measuring and tell the program the
sizes of all the parts you'll be using?

One of the most important features of an EDA tool is the components
library. A good library makes everyone's life easier.

The idea is that the every component in the library has all of the
information needed to build a board. When you place a symbol on the
schematic, that component will also have footprint info (for PCB
layout), manufacturer part numbers (if your tools can spit out
bills-of-materials, which it damn well should!), perhaps even links to
spice models, Verilog sources, etc. The idea is that you do all of
that work upfront building your library.

A good library will have a component for each and every
resistor/capacitor/etc. Why? Because each part contains the part
number you use to order it, and the package info. Yep, design
engineers always bitch about this because it's real easy to take a
generic resistor out of the generic library and modify its "value"
field, but at some point, you've got to make the PCB, and the PCB guy
needs to know if you want a through-hole 5% 10K resistor, or an 0805
1%, or whatever. And, of course, the purchasing people need to have
an orderable part number.

--a

 

[Chaos Master]

Andy Peters[Bassman59a@yahoo.com] said this in sci.electronics.cad, at 27 Dec 2003
16:18:03 -0800, in article <9a2c3a75.0312271618.5eadf7ea@posting.google.com>. I
can prove it. And thus I reply:

Paul Burridge <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote in message news:<fq7rtv0130pvm44jojth9jq31nq6sr9etd@4ax.com>...
I've not had any experience with PCB design s/ware, but one obvious
problem occurs: how does the program 'know' the dimensions of the
components you use? I mean, just about every 100pf capacitor (to take
just one example) I have is of a different size and pin-separation
distance. Do you have to set about measuring and tell the program the
sizes of all the parts you'll be using?

One of the most important features of an EDA tool is the components
library. A good library makes everyone's life easier.

The idea is that the every component in the library has all of the
information needed to build a board. When you place a symbol on the
schematic, that component will also have footprint info (for PCB
layout), manufacturer part numbers (if your tools can spit out
bills-of-materials, which it damn well should!), perhaps even links to
spice models, Verilog sources, etc. The idea is that you do all of
that work upfront building your library.

A good library will have a component for each and every
resistor/capacitor/etc. Why? Because each part contains the part
number you use to order it, and the package info. Yep, design
engineers always bitch about this because it's real easy to take a
generic resistor out of the generic library and modify its "value"
field, but at some point, you've got to make the PCB, and the PCB guy
needs to know if you want a through-hole 5% 10K resistor, or an 0805
1%, or whatever. And, of course, the purchasing people need to have
an orderable part number.

EAGLE has libraries with a quite good set of symbols for surface-mount and
through-hole devices.

--
ChaosŽ - posting from Brazil
I.DESPISE.SPAMMERS@hotmail.com
replace the I.DESPISE.SPAMMERS by wizard_of_yendor

 

[Active8]

I don't know what happened to the beginning of this thread in my
reader, but since I'm on a roll...


On 27 Dec 2003 16:18:03 -0800, Bassman59a@yahoo.com said...

Paul Burridge <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote in message news:<fq7rtv0130pvm44jojth9jq31nq6sr9etd@4ax.com>...
I've not had any experience with PCB design s/ware, but one obvious
problem occurs: how does the program 'know' the dimensions of the
components you use? I mean, just about every 100pf capacitor (to take
just one example) I have is of a different size and pin-separation
distance. Do you have to set about measuring and tell the program the
sizes of all the parts you'll be using?

Bassman59a... sounds like Aaron. Nope. Andy. Hi.

Yup. IF you don't already have it in a library. But you can get
this info from the specs or packaging info most of the time. You
just need to know where an insertion machine will bend the leads or
find the right footprint in the lib.

Then there's footprint calculators.

I even got AutoCAD drawings for cases Makes the mounting holes
placement a snap.

One of the most important features of an EDA tool is the components
library. A good library makes everyone's life easier.

I prefer good looking librarians.

The idea is that the every component in the library has all of the
information needed to build a board.

Nope. Just that little piece of real estate within the place and/or
insertion outline, whichever is greater. Design rules dictate what
other objects can get inside or near that area. It also won't
specify plating type, thickness, or hole tolerance. Just Drill
size, pad dimensions, plated or non, electrical or non, silkscreen,
soldermask, assembly view, various text like reference, component,
and footprint... assembly view artwork, power plane clearance.
Place and insertion outline. Drill symbol. Orientation/place datum.
Lotta stuff for a part.

When you place a symbol on the
schematic, that component will also have footprint info (for PCB
layout),

Only if the part was designed with default footprint name. You can
add or change it or make 2 identical parts with diff FPs so you
don't have to remember the LIB name.

manufacturer part numbers (if your tools can spit out
bills-of-materials, which it damn well should!), perhaps even links to
spice models, Verilog sources, etc. The idea is that you do all of
that work upfront building your library.

Or download or buy a library if what you have sucks or is
incomplete.

A good library will have a component for each and every
resistor/capacitor/etc.

Will it, now?

Why? Because each part contains the part
number you use to order it, and the package info.

*Do* they, now?

Yep,

Oh. So I need a separate part for the 20 different 10k resistors I
use, each with a special name so I know which part I'm selecting
into the schem?

design
engineers always bitch about this

And you take it so well. Wanna job?

because it's real easy to take a
generic resistor out of the generic library and modify its "value"
field, but at some point, you've got to make the PCB, and the PCB guy
needs to know if you want a through-hole 5% 10K resistor, or an 0805
1%, or whatever.

The PCB house doesn't care about component tolerance, a prototype
house does. Gerbers and drill files, mainly. Plating instructions
or take their default.

And, of course, the purchasing people need to have
an orderable part number.

That's still in production and not just collecting dust in the mfgs
catalog, muRata.

I have a special partnum property field otherwise, I'd just
run the BOM and import it into excel where you can hand it off to a
serving wench to look up the numbers I had a gal at Newark who
would look up her nums for stuff like 74HC00 or 1N4004 and ask
which mfg and suffix and look up the suffixes meanings. Jenny.
Gone, AFAIK. A real gem. Made my life easier.

--a < i think the "--" should be on the line above

This may be redundant, but i wrote this first. TFB

Eagle is PCB only. With a suite, you set the footprint properties
in the schematic capture program or if you just want to do a board,
you place the footprint as a component.

But just having a good footprint library doesn't mean you can just
go from BOM to ordering. My libraries have pathname-like names and
there is no "SOIC" per se. and there's other numbers in the name
like the width and length of the package which is important for
placement and insertion.

Manufacturers and distributors use a suffix like SO for SOIC or ML
for QFN.


--
Best Regards,
Mike