PCB cad software review

[GrantM.]

I know various iteration of this question have been asked before but
it's still a good thread to follow.

I personally have been using Protel for a few years and have been
quite happy with it. As much as I have read about it's instability
it's a rare day that it crashes and usually thats due to other factors
(running *way* to many programs on the same computer) and thats on
four different systems over four years. I found it to be a quick,
intuitive program that has tons of power under it's relativly simple
interface. The only problem is the price... $7995 USD.

Ideally I would be after a sub $1000 PCB program. The boards we make
are typically two layer and not overly complex, although component
placement is often tight. An autorouter is not essential nor is a
simulator (actually none of our boards work in a simulator checkout
BEAM robotics...) Our operating system of choice is win2k and is
unlikely to change anytime soon. Generally we tend to do a library of
all of our own parts.

I have been looking at Eagle, Easy PC, FreePCB.

As far as popularity goes Protel seems to be top of the pile (it's the
program they use at my post secondary...). When it comes to hobbyist
market then Eagle seems to be the most popular. I have also hear good
things about Easy PC.

I tried Eagle for a bit and found the posts about its "odd" user
interface to be bang on. My biggest complaint is the lack of a "ruler"
all measurements depend on a grid system, perhaps I am wrong though? I
think I could live with the interface but it keeps me searching.

I have given Easy PC a brief try and my initial impression is that it
is a scaled down version of Protel, not quite as feature rich or
polished but nice and easy to use (and inclueds a ruler!). Opinions on
this program?

FreePCB is an interesting and recent contender, can't beat the price.
Anyone used this one before? thoughts/opinions?

So are there any other sub (or close) $1000 PCB programs that you have
experience with?

GrantM.

P.S. I really got to like the ruler in Protel, use it all the time.

We don't need an engine! just a car with good brakes, let the world
move the car!

 

[GrantM.]

Bob Stephens <stephensyomamadigital@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<rwb9bzvr8hzq.55036vr3qxwn$.dlg@40tude.net>...

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:11:34 GMT, Clarence wrote:

"Bob Stephens" <stephensyomamadigital@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:14zia66dvctxw$.cp0mrduzs3mc.dlg@40tude.net...
On 14 Oct 2004 09:10:18 -0700, GrantM. wrote:

P.S. I really got to like the ruler in Protel, use it all the time.

Ruler?
What Ruler?

IN the PCB window, click on "REPORTS" and select on the pull down menu "Measure
Distance" to get what he, like many others call the ruler. POINT-TO POINT
measurement in whichever measurement units you selected.

Yeah. Control-M does the same thing. When he said "ruler" I thought he
meant "ruler"... Thought I might have missed something.

Oh sorry if that was a bit confusing, I usually just hit R for report
then M for measure. Snap to the center of a hole and measure the
distance to another hole, give x distance, y distance and total
distance. Err any way of snapping to the center of a hole in Eagle?

 

[GrantM.]

Paul Burridge <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote in message news:<n8gtm0lkspka2nqcuvd0040ng7hc621hcu@4ax.com>...

Pulsonix takes some beating. I've recently been trying out the new
demo version and it's pretty neat, I must say.
Check it out here:

www.pulsonix.com

I have taken a look at Pulsonix, looks nice but it's in the same price
range as protel, overkill for what we require. Still looking at the
Sub $1000 range.

GrantM.

 

[GrantM.]

Ahh this is the sort of feedback I was after, thanks.

I tried the demo of EasyPC and it is quite nice to use, looks perfect
for what we need and the price is very decent. Lower cost than Eagle
and far easier to use.

I think if they had a free version comparable to what Eagle has, they
would hold the lion's share of the hobbyist market.

Thanks for the feedback.

GrantM.

I've used EasyPC for about 4 years now, and for the fairly small amount
of PCB work I do (I'm a 6.3mm Jack of all trades) it started as
satisfactory, and the annual upgrades and frequent bugfixes have made it
pretty good in that period. Particularly nice features are the ease of
creating new components, and the good copper fill facilities.

It has got shortcomings- save your work FREQUENTLY, as it's liable to
crash, though much less so than when I first met it- and some basic
limitations, the most annoying of which to me are:

- no hierarchical schematics, and poor way of dealing with multisheet
schematics, like a multi- gate IC has to be all on one sheet.

- No proper back annotation. Though you can rename nets or components on
the PCB, and swap connections, you can't add a net or component to the
PCB and have it appear on the schematic.

- some real annoyances about second- guessing you as regards tracks and
vias. There seems to be no way of reliably introducing multiple vias
e.g. for power tracks- you have to add holes, which then don't move as
you edit the track.

The autorouter is no better than it ought to be.

But all said, for the price it's very good.

Paul Burke

 

[Hal Murray]

Oh sorry if that was a bit confusing, I usually just hit R for report
then M for measure. Snap to the center of a hole and measure the
distance to another hole, give x distance, y distance and total
distance. Err any way of snapping to the center of a hole in Eagle?

The Eagle mouse works on the current grid. If your holes are on-grid
you get an automatic snap. If not, you need to adjust the grid.
(There may be other/better ways. That's all I know.)

--
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California. So are all my
other mailboxes. Please do not send unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited
commercial e-mail to my suespammers.org address or any of my other addresses.
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.

 

[JeffM]

any way of snapping to the center of a hole in Eagle?
GrantM.

adjust the grid
Hal Murray

Don't forget to set it back immediately...or at least before changing anything.
(The frustrated voice of experience.)

 

[Don Prescott]

Once every two years I go out and download a couple of demos to see if
this has changed. Unfortunately in the last ten years this was not the case.

Markus

This is the way of things with many PCB software packages these days -
there's obviously little or no development going into them. Easy-PC
is one of the few low-cost packages that seems to still develop the
product.

Prescott

 

[Clarence]

"BEVERNON" <bevernon@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041023134553.24921.00003481@mb-m20.aol.com...

Subject: Re: PCB cad software review
From: DMBPrescott@aol.com (Don Prescott)
Date: 10/23/04 12:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <7fb54666.0410230832.6dcc6fbe@posting.google.com

Once every two years I go out and download a couple of demos to see if
this has changed. Unfortunately in the last ten years this was not the
case. Markus

This is the way of things with many PCB software packages these days -
there's obviously little or no development going into them. Easy-PC
is one of the few low-cost packages that seems to still develop the
product. Prescott

Development takes time and costs money. A lot of the low cost (affordable)
packages are being squeezed out because of the availability of the free
packages. I certainly couldn't afford to continue to develop a package under
those conditions.

It doesn't always matter if the affordable package offers options that are
not
available for free, what seems to matter is the $$$. So, why develop?

If you want high quality, free software, buy a computer (200 dollars or so)
get
a Protel 30 demo, and keep reimaging your pc every thirty days or so.

That will encourage Protel to keep developing, I'm sure
Regards, Brad

Protel has made several packages available free, IMOH they would only have a
problem if you use it commercially.

Most packages are incremental improvements in the view of the programmer, not
from scratch schemes. The Cost is one factor, but not re-inventing the wheel
is another.

As to running a demo (No support) why not use "Time Crack" to allow it to run
indefinably. No re-imaging required.

 

[GrantM.]

"Henk Boonsma" <hboonsma@teranet.news> wrote in message news:<1098467223.mdLRj5X0MGtT1+O9jfrunQ@teranews>...

"GrantM." <grant@solarbotics.com> wrote in message
news:f30e7a62.0410140810.17116fc1@posting.google.com...
Protel sucks. If you spent that kind of money on a program, you're not
likely to toss it in the Recycle Bin, no matter how bad it is. I guess that
Protel is decent, but so are many other packages, such as Eagle (which I
use). I guess that Protel users are simply fooling themselves into thinking
that something that expensive MUST be good. Well it ain't.

There are plenty
of good low-cost and even free CAE programs out there.

Such as?

 

[Clarence]

"GrantM." <grant@solarbotics.com> wrote in message
news:f30e7a62.0410271034.5f1a22fe@posting.google.com...

"Henk Boonsma" <hboonsma@teranet.news> wrote in message
news:<1098467223.mdLRj5X0MGtT1+O9jfrunQ@teranews>...
"GrantM." <grant@solarbotics.com> wrote in message
news:f30e7a62.0410140810.17116fc1@posting.google.com...
Protel sucks. If you spent that kind of money on a program, you're not
likely to toss it in the Recycle Bin, no matter how bad it is. I guess that
Protel is decent, but so are many other packages, such as Eagle (which I
use). I guess that Protel users are simply fooling themselves into thinking
that something that expensive MUST be good. Well it ain't.

Having used over fifteen PCB design packages, I will say this narrow view is
not common. While I have been using Orcad for over 15 years, I have also used
"verybest" "Vanguard," "Pads," & Protel 99SE & 'DXP'

they all have their individual quirks, but all are useful and do the job
reasonably well.

I have also tried many Demo packages, and with in the limits they are all
capable of doing a good job. I do not understand the Caustic condemnation of
any one package as being a fair assessment of the capabilities of that package.

I bought Protell, Which is the LEAST expensive package I have, and have
upgraded it due to a customer who requested it. The only criticism I have of
the package is the help files were written by a programmer, not a PCB designer.

Clarence.

PS: I do NOT recommend CELL. Although I haven't seen it around fro a long
time. It truly was an amateur effort.

 

[Clarence]

"GrantM." <grant@solarbotics.com> wrote in message
news:f30e7a62.0410271034.5f1a22fe@posting.google.com...

"Henk Boonsma" <hboonsma@teranet.news> wrote in message
news:<1098467223.mdLRj5X0MGtT1+O9jfrunQ@teranews>...
"GrantM." <grant@solarbotics.com> wrote in message
news:f30e7a62.0410140810.17116fc1@posting.google.com...
Protel sucks. If you spent that kind of money on a program, you're not
likely to toss it in the Recycle Bin, no matter how bad it is. I guess that
Protel is decent, but so are many other packages, such as Eagle (which I
use). I guess that Protel users are simply fooling themselves into thinking
that something that expensive MUST be good. Well it ain't.

Having used over fifteen PCB design packages, I will say this narrow view is
not common. While I have been using Orcad for over 15 years, I have also used
"verybest" "Vanguard," "Pads," & Protel 99SE & 'DXP'

they all have their individual quirks, but all are useful and do the job
reasonably well.

I have also tried many Demo packages, and with in the limits they are all
capable of doing a good job. I do not understand the Caustic condemnation of
any one package as being a fair assessment of the capabilities of that package.

I bought Protell, Which is the LEAST expensive package I have, and have
upgraded it due to a customer who requested it. The only criticism I have of
the package is the help files were written by a programmer, not a PCB designer.

Clarence.

PS: I do NOT recommend CELL. Although I haven't seen it around for a long
time. It truly was an amateur effort.