PC rebooting in all but preboot modes....

[legg]

I\'ve got a pretty reliable home-brew PC built on
PCC A13G+ v3.0 motherboard that has only recently
started to reboot itself after 15-30 minutes of
operation. It normally only sees an internet
connection for updates to AV or OS.

It\'s dual boot W2k / linux LXLE, and will reboot
just from sitting at log-in screen in both OS.
With W2k running, disablimg reboot on failure leaves
the system with a BSOD, instead of rebooting.

It will run preboot memtest for 6hrs+ without
fault, from either GRUB or a DOS floppy disk.

PSU, HDD replacement has no benefit, barebones.

W2k Device Mgr shows a USB Host Controller that
is recognized but will not accept the normal
usb drivers, while other enhanced controllers are
listed normally. Disabling it doesn\'t prevent the reboot.
Removing/reinstalling etc does not change its
eventual status.

USB ports function. The faulty host seems to be
treated as a usb device that can\'t be stopped in
normal usb media removal dialog.

I\'m trying to associated the USB Host issue to
physical parts on the MBrd. I\'m guessing it\'s not
just a bus switch or port buffer.

Any ideas what to do next? Replacing the motherboard
doesn\'t seem to be an option, as there aren\'t any of
these out there anymore, second-hand or otherwise.

RL

 

[John Doe]

legg wrote:

As for a new machine with W10 or later - anything that won\'t work
without an internet connection, cloud servers or a recurring
subscription, is just not going to happen here.

Windows 10 does not require an Internet connection. Even if that changes, you
can always get an older version.

 

[legg]

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 23:37:54 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote:

legg wrote:

As for a new machine with W10 or later - anything that won\'t work
without an internet connection, cloud servers or a recurring
subscription, is just not going to happen here.

Windows 10 does not require an Internet connection. Even if that changes, you
can always get an older version.

You sound really sure about all that . . . .

I\'m not even sure you can install W10 or later without one.

RL

 

[bilou]

Le 03/09/2021 à 19:58, Ralph Mowery a écrit :

By the way, I found this review of the motherboard at:
https://www.newegg.com/pc-chips-a13g/p/N82E16813185102

This picture reminds me of a problem I had.
HWinfo was telling me that a mysterious chip was reaching
a 73C temperature.
By touch nothing on the board was close to this.
So I removed the golden radiator to find that the pad
between it and the chip was completely dry.
For good measure I replaced it with a bigger black radiator
with real thermal paste and a fan.
It did wonders no more unexplained reboots and I was even able
to overclock from 2.5 to 3.5 GHz this had never been possible
since the board was new.
My thanks goes to the HWinfo software that in fact gives
temperatures of a lot of components in a PC.
It was a lot of work but now when facing mysterious
reboots I put a very big fan facing the main board a leave
it cook.

 

[legg]

On Sat, 4 Sep 2021 15:28:37 +0200, bilou <bilou@sfr.fr> wrote:

Le 03/09/2021 à 19:58, Ralph Mowery a écrit :
By the way, I found this review of the motherboard at:
https://www.newegg.com/pc-chips-a13g/p/N82E16813185102
This picture reminds me of a problem I had.
HWinfo was telling me that a mysterious chip was reaching
a 73C temperature.
By touch nothing on the board was close to this.
So I removed the golden radiator to find that the pad
between it and the chip was completely dry.
For good measure I replaced it with a bigger black radiator
with real thermal paste and a fan.
It did wonders no more unexplained reboots and I was even able
to overclock from 2.5 to 3.5 GHz this had never been possible
since the board was new.
My thanks goes to the HWinfo software that in fact gives
temperatures of a lot of components in a PC.
It was a lot of work but now when facing mysterious
reboots I put a very big fan facing the main board a leave
it cook.

An interesting feature of HWinfo, for this older motherboard,
is that it mixes up/misidentifies the voltage readings.

+3.3 is 1.856
+12 is 4.80

CPUID HWmonitor does much the same

+12 is 4.608
-12 is -4.608
-5 is -11.72

No problems with CPU core or memory voltage reporting.

RL

 

[John Doe]

legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

John Doe wrote:
legg wrote:

As for a new machine with W10 or later - anything that won\'t work
without an internet connection, cloud servers or a recurring
subscription, is just not going to happen here.

Windows 10 does not require an Internet connection. Even if that
changes, you can always get an older version.

You sound really sure about all that . . . .

I\'m not even sure you can install W10 or later without one.

YOU might not be able to, but I\'ve done that lots of times.

The Internet, among other things, is very slow up there in the frozen
tundra.

 

[Jeroni Paul]

As for a new machine with W10 or later - anything that won\'t work
without an internet connection, cloud servers or a recurring
subscription, is just not going to happen here.

W10 can work without an Internet connection. Actually to install the lastest versions of W10 Home if you want to create a local user you must install without an internet connection otherwise it enforces an online account. On that computer I would install W10 LTSB, runs great with these old dual/quad core processors.

As for the blue screen I would suspect the hard disk data or power cable. If memtest does not cause a reboot (double-check), try booting from a Linux live CD with the HDD unplugged, if it runs fine I would suspect the HDD cables, the HDD itself or the SATA controller. Maybe try another SATA port?

 

[legg]

On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 15:26:51 -0700 (PDT), Jeroni Paul
<JERONI.PAUL@terra.es> wrote:

As for a new machine with W10 or later - anything that won\'t work
without an internet connection, cloud servers or a recurring
subscription, is just not going to happen here.


W10 can work without an Internet connection. Actually to install the lastest versions of W10 Home if you want to create a local user you must install without an internet connection otherwise it enforces an online account. On that computer I would install W10 LTSB, runs great with these old dual/quad core processors.

As for the blue screen I would suspect the hard disk data or power cable. If memtest does not cause a reboot (double-check), try booting from a Linux live CD with the HDD unplugged, if it runs fine I would suspect the HDD cables, the HDD itself or the SATA controller. Maybe try another SATA port?

I tried the cable (hdd already swapped out and back using previous).
No joy after ~15 minutes.

Anyone out there know how to interpret a W2K dump text file?

These are saved on boot-up, after a previous shutdown.
Don\'t know if LXLE does a similar report.

RL

 

[John Robertson]

On 2021/09/03 8:12 a.m., legg wrote:

I\'ve got a pretty reliable home-brew PC built on
PCC A13G+ v3.0 motherboard that has only recently
started to reboot itself after 15-30 minutes of
operation. It normally only sees an internet
connection for updates to AV or OS.
...

Any ideas what to do next? Replacing the motherboard
doesn\'t seem to be an option, as there aren\'t any of
these out there anymore, second-hand or otherwise.

RL

Have you looked at the electrolytic capacitors on the motherboard? Any
of them splitting or bulging? These require a good vacuum desoldering
system as the boards are multilayer and your regular temp controlled
tool doesn\'t work so well on those types of boards unless you dial it
way up, then you run the risk of damaging the board.

John :-#(#

 

[John Robertson]

On 2021/09/03 8:12 a.m., legg wrote:

I\'ve got a pretty reliable home-brew PC built on
PCC A13G+ v3.0 motherboard that has only recently
started to reboot itself after 15-30 minutes of
operation. It normally only sees an internet
connection for updates to AV or OS.
...

Any ideas what to do next? Replacing the motherboard
doesn\'t seem to be an option, as there aren\'t any of
these out there anymore, second-hand or otherwise.

RL

Have you looked at the electrolytic capacitors on the motherboard? Any
of them splitting or bulging? These require a good vacuum desoldering
system as the boards are multilayer and your regular temp controlled
tool doesn\'t work so well on those types of boards unless you dial it
way up, then you run the risk of damaging the board.

John :-#(#

 

[David Farber]

On 9/3/2021 8:12 AM, legg wrote:

I\'ve got a pretty reliable home-brew PC built on
PCC A13G+ v3.0 motherboard that has only recently
started to reboot itself after 15-30 minutes of
operation. It normally only sees an internet
connection for updates to AV or OS.

It\'s dual boot W2k / linux LXLE, and will reboot
just from sitting at log-in screen in both OS.
With W2k running, disablimg reboot on failure leaves
the system with a BSOD, instead of rebooting.

It will run preboot memtest for 6hrs+ without
fault, from either GRUB or a DOS floppy disk.

PSU, HDD replacement has no benefit, barebones.

W2k Device Mgr shows a USB Host Controller that
is recognized but will not accept the normal
usb drivers, while other enhanced controllers are
listed normally. Disabling it doesn\'t prevent the reboot.
Removing/reinstalling etc does not change its
eventual status.

USB ports function. The faulty host seems to be
treated as a usb device that can\'t be stopped in
normal usb media removal dialog.

I\'m trying to associated the USB Host issue to
physical parts on the MBrd. I\'m guessing it\'s not
just a bus switch or port buffer.

Any ideas what to do next? Replacing the motherboard
doesn\'t seem to be an option, as there aren\'t any of
these out there anymore, second-hand or otherwise.

RL

Since you\'ve swapped out the power supply and are still having problems,
have you checked the motherboard for bulging caps? How old is the board?

By the way, I found this review of the motherboard at:
https://www.newegg.com/pc-chips-a13g/p/N82E16813185102

\"CHEAP NOT SO GOOD

Pros: This board was an easy setup. Ok for very lightly used computing.

Cons: Died in 11 months. Mounts for CPU make it awkward in most
motherboard trays.\"

Good luck.
--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA

 

[David Farber]

On 9/3/2021 8:12 AM, legg wrote:

I\'ve got a pretty reliable home-brew PC built on
PCC A13G+ v3.0 motherboard that has only recently
started to reboot itself after 15-30 minutes of
operation. It normally only sees an internet
connection for updates to AV or OS.

It\'s dual boot W2k / linux LXLE, and will reboot
just from sitting at log-in screen in both OS.
With W2k running, disablimg reboot on failure leaves
the system with a BSOD, instead of rebooting.

It will run preboot memtest for 6hrs+ without
fault, from either GRUB or a DOS floppy disk.

PSU, HDD replacement has no benefit, barebones.

W2k Device Mgr shows a USB Host Controller that
is recognized but will not accept the normal
usb drivers, while other enhanced controllers are
listed normally. Disabling it doesn\'t prevent the reboot.
Removing/reinstalling etc does not change its
eventual status.

USB ports function. The faulty host seems to be
treated as a usb device that can\'t be stopped in
normal usb media removal dialog.

I\'m trying to associated the USB Host issue to
physical parts on the MBrd. I\'m guessing it\'s not
just a bus switch or port buffer.

Any ideas what to do next? Replacing the motherboard
doesn\'t seem to be an option, as there aren\'t any of
these out there anymore, second-hand or otherwise.

RL

Since you\'ve swapped out the power supply and are still having problems,
have you checked the motherboard for bulging caps? How old is the board?

By the way, I found this review of the motherboard at:
https://www.newegg.com/pc-chips-a13g/p/N82E16813185102

\"CHEAP NOT SO GOOD

Pros: This board was an easy setup. Ok for very lightly used computing.

Cons: Died in 11 months. Mounts for CPU make it awkward in most
motherboard trays.\"

Good luck.
--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <sgtlsh$jh2$1@dont-email.me>, farberbear.unspam@aol.com
says...

Any ideas what to do next? Replacing the motherboard
doesn\'t seem to be an option, as there aren\'t any of
these out there anymore, second-hand or otherwise.

RL

Since you\'ve swapped out the power supply and are still having problems,
have you checked the motherboard for bulging caps? How old is the board?

By the way, I found this review of the motherboard at:
https://www.newegg.com/pc-chips-a13g/p/N82E16813185102

\"CHEAP NOT SO GOOD

Pros: This board was an easy setup. Ok for very lightly used computing.

Cons: Died in 11 months. Mounts for CPU make it awkward in most
motherboard trays.\"

As that board seems to be over 10 years old, it is probably time to move
up to a more modern computer. I usually get a refurbished computer off
ebay for around $ 100 for my usage.

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <sgtlsh$jh2$1@dont-email.me>, farberbear.unspam@aol.com
says...

Any ideas what to do next? Replacing the motherboard
doesn\'t seem to be an option, as there aren\'t any of
these out there anymore, second-hand or otherwise.

RL

Since you\'ve swapped out the power supply and are still having problems,
have you checked the motherboard for bulging caps? How old is the board?

By the way, I found this review of the motherboard at:
https://www.newegg.com/pc-chips-a13g/p/N82E16813185102

\"CHEAP NOT SO GOOD

Pros: This board was an easy setup. Ok for very lightly used computing.

Cons: Died in 11 months. Mounts for CPU make it awkward in most
motherboard trays.\"

As that board seems to be over 10 years old, it is probably time to move
up to a more modern computer. I usually get a refurbished computer off
ebay for around $ 100 for my usage.

 

[legg]

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 10:16:09 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
wrote:

On 2021/09/03 8:12 a.m., legg wrote:

I\'ve got a pretty reliable home-brew PC built on
PCC A13G+ v3.0 motherboard that has only recently
started to reboot itself after 15-30 minutes of
operation. It normally only sees an internet
connection for updates to AV or OS.
...

Any ideas what to do next? Replacing the motherboard
doesn\'t seem to be an option, as there aren\'t any of
these out there anymore, second-hand or otherwise.

RL


Have you looked at the electrolytic capacitors on the motherboard? Any
of them splitting or bulging? These require a good vacuum desoldering
system as the boards are multilayer and your regular temp controlled
tool doesn\'t work so well on those types of boards unless you dial it
way up, then you run the risk of damaging the board.

John :-#(#

The caps have been replaced twice on the MB over the years, and
they were the first thing suspected this time. I also did a
refurb on the original PSU (Tagan 420), before swapping it out
with a new Elite 600.

The PCC MB has been a pleasure to use since it\'s first installation
(~2004), with it\'s combination of IDE and SATA and PCi(for SCSI
and GPIB) interfaces. Have never had to re-install an OS on it.

The W2k system serves(served) as mostly library, and maintenance
standard for repair of subsequent machines. It runs most
text editing, printing, imaging, database, Autocad, board layout
communication and lab instrumentation SW of its era flawlessly.

I haven\'t managed to whip the Alt-boot linux OS into any stage
where it was as useful or easy to navigate, and a \'new\' machine
with W7 is not really a possibility, these days.

As for a new machine with W10 or later - anything that won\'t work
without an internet connection, cloud servers or a recurring
subscription, is just not going to happen here.

I\'ll probably end up just running the W7 (and some XP) machines
into the ground, while struggling to get Linux to look more
familiar and act more usefully.

If I could track down the hardware fault on this MB, however, I\'d
be over the moon. I still miss a W98/W2k/XP multiboot system that
had to be put down around 2013(ECS KM400 MB). It also never needed
an OS \'reinstall\'.

.. . . compeeyoudahs are probably the greatest waste of time
and effort I could ever have possibly imagined. Pointy-headed
business types just keeps twisting your arm, however.

RL

 

[legg]

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 10:16:09 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
wrote:

On 2021/09/03 8:12 a.m., legg wrote:

I\'ve got a pretty reliable home-brew PC built on
PCC A13G+ v3.0 motherboard that has only recently
started to reboot itself after 15-30 minutes of
operation. It normally only sees an internet
connection for updates to AV or OS.
...

Any ideas what to do next? Replacing the motherboard
doesn\'t seem to be an option, as there aren\'t any of
these out there anymore, second-hand or otherwise.

RL


Have you looked at the electrolytic capacitors on the motherboard? Any
of them splitting or bulging? These require a good vacuum desoldering
system as the boards are multilayer and your regular temp controlled
tool doesn\'t work so well on those types of boards unless you dial it
way up, then you run the risk of damaging the board.

John :-#(#

The caps have been replaced twice on the MB over the years, and
they were the first thing suspected this time. I also did a
refurb on the original PSU (Tagan 420), before swapping it out
with a new Elite 600.

The PCC MB has been a pleasure to use since it\'s first installation
(~2004), with it\'s combination of IDE and SATA and PCi(for SCSI
and GPIB) interfaces. Have never had to re-install an OS on it.

The W2k system serves(served) as mostly library, and maintenance
standard for repair of subsequent machines. It runs most
text editing, printing, imaging, database, Autocad, board layout
communication and lab instrumentation SW of its era flawlessly.

I haven\'t managed to whip the Alt-boot linux OS into any stage
where it was as useful or easy to navigate, and a \'new\' machine
with W7 is not really a possibility, these days.

As for a new machine with W10 or later - anything that won\'t work
without an internet connection, cloud servers or a recurring
subscription, is just not going to happen here.

I\'ll probably end up just running the W7 (and some XP) machines
into the ground, while struggling to get Linux to look more
familiar and act more usefully.

If I could track down the hardware fault on this MB, however, I\'d
be over the moon. I still miss a W98/W2k/XP multiboot system that
had to be put down around 2013(ECS KM400 MB). It also never needed
an OS \'reinstall\'.

.. . . compeeyoudahs are probably the greatest waste of time
and effort I could ever have possibly imagined. Pointy-headed
business types just keeps twisting your arm, however.

RL

 

[legg]

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 10:16:09 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
wrote:

On 2021/09/03 8:12 a.m., legg wrote:

I\'ve got a pretty reliable home-brew PC built on
PCC A13G+ v3.0 motherboard that has only recently
started to reboot itself after 15-30 minutes of
operation. It normally only sees an internet
connection for updates to AV or OS.
...

Any ideas what to do next? Replacing the motherboard
doesn\'t seem to be an option, as there aren\'t any of
these out there anymore, second-hand or otherwise.

RL


Have you looked at the electrolytic capacitors on the motherboard? Any
of them splitting or bulging? These require a good vacuum desoldering
system as the boards are multilayer and your regular temp controlled
tool doesn\'t work so well on those types of boards unless you dial it
way up, then you run the risk of damaging the board.

John :-#(#

The caps have been replaced twice on the MB over the years, and
they were the first thing suspected this time. I also did a
refurb on the original PSU (Tagan 420), before swapping it out
with a new Elite 600.

The PCC MB has been a pleasure to use since it\'s first installation
(~2004), with it\'s combination of IDE and SATA and PCi(for SCSI
and GPIB) interfaces. Have never had to re-install an OS on it.

The W2k system serves(served) as mostly library, and maintenance
standard for repair of subsequent machines. It runs most
text editing, printing, imaging, database, Autocad, board layout
communication and lab instrumentation SW of its era flawlessly.

I haven\'t managed to whip the Alt-boot linux OS into any stage
where it was as useful or easy to navigate, and a \'new\' machine
with W7 is not really a possibility, these days.

As for a new machine with W10 or later - anything that won\'t work
without an internet connection, cloud servers or a recurring
subscription, is just not going to happen here.

I\'ll probably end up just running the W7 (and some XP) machines
into the ground, while struggling to get Linux to look more
familiar and act more usefully.

If I could track down the hardware fault on this MB, however, I\'d
be over the moon. I still miss a W98/W2k/XP multiboot system that
had to be put down around 2013(ECS KM400 MB). It also never needed
an OS \'reinstall\'.

.. . . compeeyoudahs are probably the greatest waste of time
and effort I could ever have possibly imagined. Pointy-headed
business types just keeps twisting your arm, however.

RL

 

[legg]

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 10:16:09 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
wrote:

On 2021/09/03 8:12 a.m., legg wrote:

I\'ve got a pretty reliable home-brew PC built on
PCC A13G+ v3.0 motherboard that has only recently
started to reboot itself after 15-30 minutes of
operation. It normally only sees an internet
connection for updates to AV or OS.
...

Any ideas what to do next? Replacing the motherboard
doesn\'t seem to be an option, as there aren\'t any of
these out there anymore, second-hand or otherwise.

RL


Have you looked at the electrolytic capacitors on the motherboard? Any
of them splitting or bulging? These require a good vacuum desoldering
system as the boards are multilayer and your regular temp controlled
tool doesn\'t work so well on those types of boards unless you dial it
way up, then you run the risk of damaging the board.

John :-#(#

The caps have been replaced twice on the MB over the years, and
they were the first thing suspected this time. I also did a
refurb on the original PSU (Tagan 420), before swapping it out
with a new Elite 600.

The PCC MB has been a pleasure to use since it\'s first installation
(~2004), with it\'s combination of IDE and SATA and PCi(for SCSI
and GPIB) interfaces. Have never had to re-install an OS on it.

The W2k system serves(served) as mostly library, and maintenance
standard for repair of subsequent machines. It runs most
text editing, printing, imaging, database, Autocad, board layout
communication and lab instrumentation SW of its era flawlessly.

I haven\'t managed to whip the Alt-boot linux OS into any stage
where it was as useful or easy to navigate, and a \'new\' machine
with W7 is not really a possibility, these days.

As for a new machine with W10 or later - anything that won\'t work
without an internet connection, cloud servers or a recurring
subscription, is just not going to happen here.

I\'ll probably end up just running the W7 (and some XP) machines
into the ground, while struggling to get Linux to look more
familiar and act more usefully.

If I could track down the hardware fault on this MB, however, I\'d
be over the moon. I still miss a W98/W2k/XP multiboot system that
had to be put down around 2013(ECS KM400 MB). It also never needed
an OS \'reinstall\'.

.. . . compeeyoudahs are probably the greatest waste of time
and effort I could ever have possibly imagined. Pointy-headed
business types just keeps twisting your arm, however.

RL

 

[Phil Hobbs]

John Robertson wrote:

On 2021/09/03 8:12 a.m., legg wrote:

I\'ve got a pretty reliable home-brew PC built on
PCC A13G+ v3.0 motherboard that has only recently
started to reboot itself after 15-30 minutes of
operation. It normally only sees an internet
connection for updates to AV or OS.
...

Any ideas what to do next? Replacing the motherboard
doesn\'t seem to be an option, as there aren\'t any of
these out there anymore, second-hand or otherwise.

RL


Have you looked at the electrolytic capacitors on the motherboard? Any
of them splitting or bulging? These require a good vacuum desoldering
system as the boards are multilayer and your regular temp controlled
tool doesn\'t work so well on those types of boards unless you dial it
way up, then you run the risk of damaging the board.

John :-#(#

Another approach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8N9O3a9jiM

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com