P.I.R. sensor to detect small birds

[L.A.T.]

I would like to set up a camera in a remote pool to photograph shy birds as
they drink and bathe. Commercial infrared motion detectors are usually
designed to respond to humans and often make a point of the fact that birds
and small animals don't trigger them.
Now that my picaxe-based wireless remote is up and running, we now have five
cameras that I can set up to take exposures every ten seconds, with the
potential to achieve 10,000 exposures in a session. Impressive but not
practical. I hope to use a bird-triggered P.I.R. detector to prompt the
camera to take six shots and then wait for another trigger. If I can come up
with a PIR detector that responds to a bird, it will be a simple task to
modify my existing timers to run for a minute instead of continuously. I
imagine that commercially available devices designed to sell to wildlife
photographers will be too expensive.
Any suggestions?

 

[Andy Wood]

"L.A.T." <tonyt@sci.net.au> wrote:

I would like to set up a camera in a remote pool to photograph shy birds as
they drink and bathe. Commercial infrared motion detectors are usually
designed to respond to humans and often make a point of the fact that birds
and small animals don't trigger them.
Now that my picaxe-based wireless remote is up and running, we now have five
cameras that I can set up to take exposures every ten seconds, with the
potential to achieve 10,000 exposures in a session. Impressive but not
practical. I hope to use a bird-triggered P.I.R. detector to prompt the
camera to take six shots and then wait for another trigger. If I can come up
with a PIR detector that responds to a bird, it will be a simple task to
modify my existing timers to run for a minute instead of continuously. I
imagine that commercially available devices designed to sell to wildlife
photographers will be too expensive.
Any suggestions?

I would have thought that a PIR would detect a bird if it was close
enough, but maybe feathers are too good as thermal insulation. Perhaps
IR beam(s) instead of a PIR?

Or maybe a microwave doppler motion sensor? I once used one of those
as a possum detector but then possums are a bit bigger than most
birds. Again it would depend on how close they are.

I'm assuming you don't mean emus or cassowaries...



Andy Wood
woodag@trap.ozemail.com.au

 

[Lord Garth]

"L.A.T." <tonyt@sci.net.au> wrote in message
news:upHWk.772$Et1.158@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

I would like to set up a camera in a remote pool to photograph shy birds as
they drink and bathe. Commercial infrared motion detectors are usually
designed to respond to humans and often make a point of the fact that birds
and small animals don't trigger them.
Now that my picaxe-based wireless remote is up and running, we now have
five cameras that I can set up to take exposures every ten seconds, with
the potential to achieve 10,000 exposures in a session. Impressive but not
practical. I hope to use a bird-triggered P.I.R. detector to prompt the
camera to take six shots and then wait for another trigger. If I can come
up with a PIR detector that responds to a bird, it will be a simple task
to modify my existing timers to run for a minute instead of continuously.
I imagine that commercially available devices designed to sell to
wildlife photographers will be too expensive.
Any suggestions?

Laser trip wire sensor or a weight detector or perhaps a touch switch in the
form of a perch.

 

[Andy Wood]

"L.A.T." <tonyt@sci.net.au> wrote:

I would like to set up a camera in a remote pool to photograph shy birds as
they drink and bathe. Commercial infrared motion detectors are usually
designed to respond to humans and often make a point of the fact that birds
and small animals don't trigger them.
Now that my picaxe-based wireless remote is up and running, we now have five
cameras that I can set up to take exposures every ten seconds, with the
potential to achieve 10,000 exposures in a session. Impressive but not
practical. I hope to use a bird-triggered P.I.R. detector to prompt the
camera to take six shots and then wait for another trigger. If I can come up
with a PIR detector that responds to a bird, it will be a simple task to
modify my existing timers to run for a minute instead of continuously. I
imagine that commercially available devices designed to sell to wildlife
photographers will be too expensive.
Any suggestions?

Another thought. Didn't you previously mention using Canon cameras? If
CHDK is available for the camera you are using then you could use the
motion detection feature provided by CHDK.
Andy Wood
woodag@trap.ozemail.com.au

 

[Phil Allison]

"L.A.T."

I would like to set up a camera in a remote pool to photograph shy birds as
they drink and bathe. Commercial infrared motion detectors are usually
designed to respond to humans and often make a point of the fact that birds
and small animals don't trigger them.

** So forget using PIR entirely.

A microwave ( Doppler) or possibly ultra-sonic movement detector is what
you need.




...... Phil

 

[Robbo]

"L.A.T." <tonyt@sci.net.au> wrote in message
news:upHWk.772$Et1.158@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

I would like to set up a camera in a remote pool to photograph shy birds as
they drink and bathe. Commercial infrared motion detectors are usually
designed to respond to humans and often make a point of the fact that birds
and small animals don't trigger them.
Now that my picaxe-based wireless remote is up and running, we now have
five cameras that I can set up to take exposures every ten seconds, with
the potential to achieve 10,000 exposures in a session. Impressive but not
practical. I hope to use a bird-triggered P.I.R. detector to prompt the
camera to take six shots and then wait for another trigger. If I can come
up with a PIR detector that responds to a bird, it will be a simple task
to modify my existing timers to run for a minute instead of continuously.
I imagine that commercially available devices designed to sell to
wildlife photographers will be too expensive.
Any suggestions?

Maybe a CAT sensor tied to a trigger switch.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2008-11-25, Robbo <krudemail@iinet.net.au> wrote:

"L.A.T." <tonyt@sci.net.au> wrote in message
news:upHWk.772$Et1.158@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
I would like to set up a camera in a remote pool to photograph shy birds as
they drink and bathe. Commercial infrared motion detectors are usually
designed to respond to humans and often make a point of the fact that birds
and small animals don't trigger them.
Now that my picaxe-based wireless remote is up and running, we now have
five cameras that I can set up to take exposures every ten seconds, with
the potential to achieve 10,000 exposures in a session. Impressive but not
practical. I hope to use a bird-triggered P.I.R. detector to prompt the
camera to take six shots and then wait for another trigger. If I can come
up with a PIR detector that responds to a bird, it will be a simple task
to modify my existing timers to run for a minute instead of continuously.
I imagine that commercially available devices designed to sell to
wildlife photographers will be too expensive.
Any suggestions?


Maybe a CAT sensor tied to a trigger switch.

Tie a cat to the shutter release? (CAT sensor - wtf?)

 

[atec77]

Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2008-11-25, Robbo <krudemail@iinet.net.au> wrote:
"L.A.T." <tonyt@sci.net.au> wrote in message
news:upHWk.772$Et1.158@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
I would like to set up a camera in a remote pool to photograph shy birds as
they drink and bathe. Commercial infrared motion detectors are usually
designed to respond to humans and often make a point of the fact that birds
and small animals don't trigger them.
Now that my picaxe-based wireless remote is up and running, we now have
five cameras that I can set up to take exposures every ten seconds, with
the potential to achieve 10,000 exposures in a session. Impressive but not
practical. I hope to use a bird-triggered P.I.R. detector to prompt the
camera to take six shots and then wait for another trigger. If I can come
up with a PIR detector that responds to a bird, it will be a simple task
to modify my existing timers to run for a minute instead of continuously.
I imagine that commercially available devices designed to sell to
wildlife photographers will be too expensive.
Any suggestions?

Maybe a CAT sensor tied to a trigger switch.

Tie a cat to the shutter release? (CAT sensor - wtf?)



Pull , ( thrower operating noises)

roowwwwshrechhhh (flailing cat)
Boom boom ( thats a shoty folks)
seems fitting

 

[Techo]

Check out this link
http://www.tenrod.com.au/htdocs/products/subcat.asp?product_id=27&sub_catego
ry_id=604&sub_category_parent_id=0 it's a DVR with a motion detect function,
not sure if it will work for you but it's worth a look. You can enquire via
this website, from personal experience ask for Ben, don't deal with Colin or
you will get ripped off.



"atec77" <atec77REMOVE@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gggjck$3e9$1@aioe.org...

Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2008-11-25, Robbo <krudemail@iinet.net.au> wrote:
"L.A.T." <tonyt@sci.net.au> wrote in message
news:upHWk.772$Et1.158@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
I would like to set up a camera in a remote pool to photograph shy
birds as
they drink and bathe. Commercial infrared motion detectors are usually
designed to respond to humans and often make a point of the fact that
birds
and small animals don't trigger them.
Now that my picaxe-based wireless remote is up and running, we now
have
five cameras that I can set up to take exposures every ten seconds,
with
the potential to achieve 10,000 exposures in a session. Impressive but
not
practical. I hope to use a bird-triggered P.I.R. detector to prompt
the
camera to take six shots and then wait for another trigger. If I can
come
up with a PIR detector that responds to a bird, it will be a simple
task
to modify my existing timers to run for a minute instead of
continuously.
I imagine that commercially available devices designed to sell to
wildlife photographers will be too expensive.
Any suggestions?

Maybe a CAT sensor tied to a trigger switch.

Tie a cat to the shutter release? (CAT sensor - wtf?)



Pull , ( thrower operating noises)
roowwwwshrechhhh (flailing cat)
Boom boom ( thats a shoty folks)
seems fitting

 

[Andy Wood]

"Techo" <ihate@spam.com> wrote:

Check out this link
http://www.tenrod.com.au/htdocs/products/subcat.asp?product_id=27&sub_catego
ry_id=604&sub_category_parent_id=0 it's a DVR with a motion detect function,
not sure if it will work for you but it's worth a look. You can enquire via
this website, from personal experience ask for Ben, don't deal with Colin or
you will get ripped off.

Even if you don't get ripped off, that looks like it would be pretty
expensive.

The OP seems capable of some serious DIY so perhaps could make
something using this:

http://www.dontronics-shop.com/video-motion-detector-ic.html

Andy Wood
woodag@trap.ozemail.com.au

 

[ian field]

"L.A.T." <tonyt@sci.net.au> wrote in message
news:upHWk.772$Et1.158@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

I would like to set up a camera in a remote pool to photograph shy birds as
they drink and bathe. Commercial infrared motion detectors are usually
designed to respond to humans and often make a point of the fact that birds
and small animals don't trigger them.
Now that my picaxe-based wireless remote is up and running, we now have
five cameras that I can set up to take exposures every ten seconds, with
the potential to achieve 10,000 exposures in a session. Impressive but not
practical. I hope to use a bird-triggered P.I.R. detector to prompt the
camera to take six shots and then wait for another trigger. If I can come
up with a PIR detector that responds to a bird, it will be a simple task
to modify my existing timers to run for a minute instead of continuously.
I imagine that commercially available devices designed to sell to
wildlife photographers will be too expensive.
Any suggestions?

A recent issue of Elektor magazine had an article about re-using the IR
camera module from a Wii handset - the camera will respond to visible light
but is normally used with an IR filter, it doesn't produce a picture signal
as such rather it plots the coordinates of up to 4 heat sources, IIRC the
signal interface is I2C.

 

[L.A.T.]

The story so far:
Thank you all for your responses. I have looked at them all, including the
article in Everyday Practical Electronics May 2003 and the module from New
Zealand. The remote places I have in mind don't lend themselves to a trip
wire or something based on the bird breaking an I.R. beam. I have looked at
one or two methods involving a laptop, but I'd rather avoid that added piece
of hardware if possible.
For the time being I am trying out a cheap PIR motion detector from the
cornucopia that is Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330287286102&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=014
It senses a person moving and instantly switches on six LEDs which are
sufficiently bright to illuminate a flight of stairs, for example.
It is one of many different types that are available, and costs twelve
dollars including postage. It arrived today without any instructions, but I
think I have figured it out.I am quietly confident that its sensitivity can
be adjusted to respond to a bird in the area I have in mind. I will know by
tomorrow if it is worth working on.I will butcher it so that I can take the
power that is going to the LEDs and use it to signal a Picaxe to start a
series of exposures in the attached camera. I can probably remove the LEDs
and replace each with a socket into which I can then plug a lead to the
camera controller.

 

[Techo]

When i enquired a while ago, it sold for $120, you just have to add camera
and SD card.


"Andy Wood" <woodag@trap.ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:492c47e2$0$18614$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

"Techo" <ihate@spam.com> wrote:

Check out this link

http://www.tenrod.com.au/htdocs/products/subcat.asp?product_id=27&sub_categ
o
ry_id=604&sub_category_parent_id=0 it's a DVR with a motion detect
function,
not sure if it will work for you but it's worth a look. You can enquire
via
this website, from personal experience ask for Ben, don't deal with Colin
or
you will get ripped off.


Even if you don't get ripped off, that looks like it would be pretty
expensive.

The OP seems capable of some serious DIY so perhaps could make
something using this:

http://www.dontronics-shop.com/video-motion-detector-ic.html

Andy Wood
woodag@trap.ozemail.com.au

 

[L.A.T.]

"L.A.T." <tonyt@sci.net.au> wrote in message
news:wY7Xk.1109$Et1.956@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

The story so far:
Thank you all for your responses. I have looked at them all, including the
article in Everyday Practical Electronics May 2003 and the module from New
Zealand. The remote places I have in mind don't lend themselves to a trip
wire or something based on the bird breaking an I.R. beam. I have looked
at one or two methods involving a laptop, but I'd rather avoid that added
piece of hardware if possible.
For the time being I am trying out a cheap PIR motion detector from the
cornucopia that is Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330287286102&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=014
It senses a person moving and instantly switches on six LEDs which are
sufficiently bright to illuminate a flight of stairs, for example.
It is one of many different types that are available, and costs twelve
dollars including postage. It arrived today without any instructions, but
I think I have figured it out.I am quietly confident that its sensitivity
can be adjusted to respond to a bird in the area I have in mind. I will
know by tomorrow if it is worth working on.I will butcher it so that I can
take the power that is going to the LEDs and use it to signal a Picaxe to
start a series of exposures in the attached camera. I can probably remove
the LEDs and replace each with a socket into which I can then plug a lead
to the camera controller.
I have had mixed results. Most big(gish) birds trigger the PIR but many

small birds do not. I can't seem to see any pattern as to which little guys
set off the PIR and which are ignored. Mrs. tt92 has suggested illuminating
the area with an array of I.R.LEDs which might add some reflected IR to the
radiated IR of the small birds and thus make them more likely to trigger the
PIR. The additional radiation may tun out to be anything from insignificant
to really useful. I don't know how to find this out except by trial (and
error). Any thoughts?
The project has subtly changed from being a hunt for bird pictures to being
a
technical challenge.

 

[Adrian Jansen]

L.A.T. wrote:

"L.A.T." <tonyt@sci.net.au> wrote in message
news:wY7Xk.1109$Et1.956@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
The story so far:
Thank you all for your responses. I have looked at them all, including the
article in Everyday Practical Electronics May 2003 and the module from New
Zealand. The remote places I have in mind don't lend themselves to a trip
wire or something based on the bird breaking an I.R. beam. I have looked
at one or two methods involving a laptop, but I'd rather avoid that added
piece of hardware if possible.
For the time being I am trying out a cheap PIR motion detector from the
cornucopia that is Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330287286102&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=014
It senses a person moving and instantly switches on six LEDs which are
sufficiently bright to illuminate a flight of stairs, for example.
It is one of many different types that are available, and costs twelve
dollars including postage. It arrived today without any instructions, but
I think I have figured it out.I am quietly confident that its sensitivity
can be adjusted to respond to a bird in the area I have in mind. I will
know by tomorrow if it is worth working on.I will butcher it so that I can
take the power that is going to the LEDs and use it to signal a Picaxe to
start a series of exposures in the attached camera. I can probably remove
the LEDs and replace each with a socket into which I can then plug a lead
to the camera controller.
I have had mixed results. Most big(gish) birds trigger the PIR but many
small birds do not. I can't seem to see any pattern as to which little guys
set off the PIR and which are ignored. Mrs. tt92 has suggested illuminating
the area with an array of I.R.LEDs which might add some reflected IR to the
radiated IR of the small birds and thus make them more likely to trigger the
PIR. The additional radiation may tun out to be anything from insignificant
to really useful. I don't know how to find this out except by trial (and
error). Any thoughts?
The project has subtly changed from being a hunt for bird pictures to being
a
technical challenge.


By chance I got hold of a small toy with a really simple motion detector

in it, which would probably do this job.

The toy is an Echo Bot from http://www.latestbuy.com.au/

But the sensor appears to be simply a photodiode mounted at the far end
of a 2mm ID black plastic tube. I presume its AC coupled to an
amplifier, so that any motion in front of the sensor generates enough
change in the light level to trip a comparator. Really simple, but
quite effective. Range is around 1m max, but might do what you want. I
would not bother buying the gadget, just set up something using say a
BPW34 or similar, with a dual opamp to do both amplify and comparator.


--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen adrianjansen at internode dot on dot net
Design Engineer J & K Micro Systems
Microcomputer solutions for industrial control
Note reply address is invalid, convert address above to machine form.

 

On Dec 11, 7:29 am, "L.A.T." <to...@sci.net.au> wrote:

"L.A.T." <to...@sci.net.au> wrote in message

news:wY7Xk.1109$Et1.956@news-server.bigpond.net.au...



The story so far:
Thank you all for your responses. I have looked at them all, including the
article in Everyday Practical Electronics May 2003 and the module from New
Zealand. The remote places I have in mind don't lend themselves to a trip
wire or something based on the bird breaking an I.R. beam. I have looked
at one or two methods involving a laptop, but I'd rather avoid that added
piece of hardware if possible.
For the time being I am trying out a cheap PIR motion detector from the
cornucopia that is Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3302872861...
It senses a person moving and instantly switches on six LEDs which are
sufficiently bright to illuminate a flight of stairs, for example.
It is one of many different types that are available, and costs twelve
dollars including postage. It arrived today without any instructions, but
I think I have figured it out.I am quietly confident that its sensitivity
can be adjusted to respond to a bird in the area I have in mind. I will
know by tomorrow if it is worth working on.I will butcher it so that I can
take the power that is going to the LEDs and use it to signal a Picaxe to
start a series of exposures in the attached camera. I can probably remove
the LEDs and replace each with a socket into which I can then plug a lead
to the camera controller.

I have had mixed results. Most big(gish) birds trigger the PIR but many
small birds do not. I can't seem to see any pattern as to which little guys
set off the PIR and which are ignored. Mrs. tt92 has suggested illuminating
the area with an array of I.R.LEDs which might add some reflected IR to the
radiated IR of the small birds and thus make them more likely to trigger the
PIR. The additional radiation may tun out to be anything from insignificant
to really useful. I don't know how to find this out except by trial (and
error). Any thoughts?
The project has subtly changed from being a hunt for bird pictures to being
a
technical challenge.

IR leds operate in the very near IR at only just outside human sight,
and some energy also inside this range. The PIR detects wavelengths
several to many times this, as this is the range emitted from body
warmth. So I would predict that though the target may reflect some of
the near IR, the pyroelectric IR film will not be sensitive to this
wavelength.

 

[ian field]

"Adrian Jansen" <adrian@qq.vv.net> wrote in message
news:01504cc7$0$20652$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

L.A.T. wrote:
"L.A.T." <tonyt@sci.net.au> wrote in message
news:wY7Xk.1109$Et1.956@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
The story so far:
Thank you all for your responses. I have looked at them all, including
the article in Everyday Practical Electronics May 2003 and the module
from New Zealand. The remote places I have in mind don't lend themselves
to a trip wire or something based on the bird breaking an I.R. beam. I
have looked at one or two methods involving a laptop, but I'd rather
avoid that added piece of hardware if possible.
For the time being I am trying out a cheap PIR motion detector from the
cornucopia that is Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330287286102&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=014
It senses a person moving and instantly switches on six LEDs which are
sufficiently bright to illuminate a flight of stairs, for example.
It is one of many different types that are available, and costs twelve
dollars including postage. It arrived today without any instructions,
but I think I have figured it out.I am quietly confident that its
sensitivity can be adjusted to respond to a bird in the area I have in
mind. I will know by tomorrow if it is worth working on.I will butcher
it so that I can take the power that is going to the LEDs and use it to
signal a Picaxe to start a series of exposures in the attached camera. I
can probably remove the LEDs and replace each with a socket into which I
can then plug a lead to the camera controller.
I have had mixed results. Most big(gish) birds trigger the PIR but many
small birds do not. I can't seem to see any pattern as to which little
guys set off the PIR and which are ignored. Mrs. tt92 has suggested
illuminating the area with an array of I.R.LEDs which might add some
reflected IR to the radiated IR of the small birds and thus make them
more likely to trigger the PIR. The additional radiation may tun out to
be anything from insignificant to really useful. I don't know how to find
this out except by trial (and error). Any thoughts?
The project has subtly changed from being a hunt for bird pictures to
being a
technical challenge.
By chance I got hold of a small toy with a really simple motion detector
in it, which would probably do this job.

That might be an idea, many novelty shops sell various toys with amusing
sound effects triggered by a motion sensor, I remember a plastic frog that
croaked when triggered along with farting Santa's, farting gnomes and
various other guises.

 

[MoiInAust]

"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:ctb0l.79$wp1.53@newsfe09.ams2...

"Adrian Jansen" <adrian@qq.vv.net> wrote in message
news:01504cc7$0$20652$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

L.A.T. wrote:
"L.A.T." <tonyt@sci.net.au> wrote in message
news:wY7Xk.1109$Et1.956@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
The story so far:
Thank you all for your responses. I have looked at them all, including
the article in Everyday Practical Electronics May 2003 and the module
from New Zealand. The remote places I have in mind don't lend
themselves to a trip wire or something based on the bird breaking an
I.R. beam. I have looked at one or two methods involving a laptop, but
I'd rather avoid that added piece of hardware if possible.
For the time being I am trying out a cheap PIR motion detector from the
cornucopia that is Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330287286102&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=014
It senses a person moving and instantly switches on six LEDs which are
sufficiently bright to illuminate a flight of stairs, for example.
It is one of many different types that are available, and costs twelve
dollars including postage. It arrived today without any instructions,
but I think I have figured it out.I am quietly confident that its
sensitivity can be adjusted to respond to a bird in the area I have in
mind. I will know by tomorrow if it is worth working on.I will butcher
it so that I can take the power that is going to the LEDs and use it to
signal a Picaxe to start a series of exposures in the attached camera.
I can probably remove the LEDs and replace each with a socket into
which I can then plug a lead to the camera controller.
I have had mixed results. Most big(gish) birds trigger the PIR but many
small birds do not. I can't seem to see any pattern as to which little
guys set off the PIR and which are ignored. Mrs. tt92 has suggested
illuminating the area with an array of I.R.LEDs which might add some
reflected IR to the radiated IR of the small birds and thus make them
more likely to trigger the PIR. The additional radiation may tun out to
be anything from insignificant to really useful. I don't know how to
find this out except by trial (and error). Any thoughts?
The project has subtly changed from being a hunt for bird pictures to
being a
technical challenge.
By chance I got hold of a small toy with a really simple motion detector
in it, which would probably do this job.


That might be an idea, many novelty shops sell various toys with amusing
sound effects triggered by a motion sensor, I remember a plastic frog that
croaked when triggered along with farting Santa's, farting gnomes and
various other guises.
Sound just like Jaycar has become...