Output transformer ambiguity

[Steve Sousa]

Hello:

I have a tube radio to repair. It's output valve is an ELL80 (two EL95 in
one tube) and was broken at the base and the socket showed signs of overheat
and cold solder joints. I have the valve on order but when checking the
output transformers (it has 2) onde of them has a primary resistance of
~900ohm and the other ~4000 ohm. I measured the turns ratio using a signal
generator at 1khz and got 45,6 and 46,0 which squared and multiplied by the
speakers output impedance (5ohm) gives ~10kohms which is the expected
impedance for the ELL80. Given all this info how can i check which
transformer is bad? they both drive an speaker just fine using the Sig. Gen.
but i can't believe they can have such different dc resistance.

Thank you in advance

Best Regards

Steve Sousa

 

[Meat Plow]

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:21:50 +0000, Steve Sousa wrote:

Hello:

I have a tube radio to repair. It's output valve is an ELL80 (two EL95
in one tube) and was broken at the base and the socket showed signs of
overheat and cold solder joints. I have the valve on order but when
checking the output transformers (it has 2) onde of them has a primary
resistance of ~900ohm and the other ~4000 ohm. I measured the turns
ratio using a signal generator at 1khz and got 45,6 and 46,0 which
squared and multiplied by the speakers output impedance (5ohm) gives
~10kohms which is the expected impedance for the ELL80. Given all this
info how can i check which transformer is bad? they both drive an
speaker just fine using the Sig. Gen. but i can't believe they can have
such different dc resistance.

Thank you in advance

Best Regards

Steve Sousa

That's a heck of a difference in DC resistance. If you drive both with a
sig generator and look at the secondaries on a scope is there a big
difference in the signal amplitude between the two? If not I would be
inclined to replace the tube and take some voltages while the circuit is
live while monitoring the plate currents. You can look here for
operational voltages and currents in different classes of operation:

http://www.nj7p.org/Tube4.php?tube=6gu8



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

 

[Phil Allison]

"Steve Sousa"

I have a tube radio to repair. It's output valve is an ELL80 (two EL95 in
one tube) and was broken at the base and the socket showed signs of
overheat and cold solder joints. I have the valve on order but when
checking the output transformers (it has 2) onde of them has a primary
resistance of ~900ohm and the other ~4000 ohm.

** Assuming the transformers are the same size and do the same job, the one
with the 4000 ohm primary is stuffed.

I measured the turns ratio using a signal generator at 1khz and got 45,6
and 46,0

** Do not use a comma for the decimal point - it is way too confusing.



...... Phil

 

[Brenda Ann]

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:8l2pujF1hkU1@mid.individual.net...


"Steve Sousa"

I have a tube radio to repair. It's output valve is an ELL80 (two EL95 in
one tube) and was broken at the base and the socket showed signs of
overheat and cold solder joints. I have the valve on order but when
checking the output transformers (it has 2) onde of them has a primary
resistance of ~900ohm and the other ~4000 ohm.

** Assuming the transformers are the same size and do the same job, the one
with the 4000 ohm primary is stuffed.

I measured the turns ratio using a signal generator at 1khz and got 45,6
and 46,0

** Do not use a comma for the decimal point - it is way too confusing.



...... Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the world uses a comma as a decimal point. The US and Canada are
about the only ones that use a period.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Brenda Ann"
"Phil Allison"

"Steve Sousa"

I have a tube radio to repair. It's output valve is an ELL80 (two EL95 in
one tube) and was broken at the base and the socket showed signs of
overheat and cold solder joints. I have the valve on order but when
checking the output transformers (it has 2) onde of them has a primary
resistance of ~900ohm and the other ~4000 ohm.


** Assuming the transformers are the same size and do the same job, the
one
with the 4000 ohm primary is stuffed.


I measured the turns ratio using a signal generator at 1khz and got 45,6
and 46,0


** Do not use a comma for the decimal point - it is way too confusing.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the world uses a comma as a decimal point.

** Bullshit.

The US and Canada are about the only ones that use a period.

** Virtually the entire English speaking world uses the period.


...... Phil

 

[Meat Plow]

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 10:21:30 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:

Bullshit.

Regarded as you most affluent reply



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

 

[Brenda Ann]

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:8l30juF9omU1@mid.individual.net...

** Do not use a comma for the decimal point - it is way too confusing.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the world uses a comma as a decimal point.

** Bullshit.

The US and Canada are about the only ones that use a period.

** Virtually the entire English speaking world uses the period.


...... Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Countries where a comma is used to mark the radix point include:

Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bolivia,
Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Canada
(French-speaking), Costa Rica, Croatia (comma used officially, but both
forms are in use elsewhere), Chile, Colombia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic,
Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Faroes, Finland,
France, Germany, Greece, Greenland, Guatemala, Honduras, Hungary, Indonesia,
Iceland, Italy, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg (uses both
separators officially), Macedonia, Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Nicaragua,
Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia,
South Africa (officially, but dot point is commonly used in business, even
though South Africa used to be in the British Empire, which is considered to
be strange by quite a few people in Britain), Slovenia, Spain, Sweden,
Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Venezuela, Vietnam.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Brenda Ann is another autistic fuckwit"

Most of the world uses a comma as a decimal point.

** Bullshit.

The US and Canada are about the only ones that use a period.

** Virtually the entire English speaking world uses the period.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for your post that proved the above point beyond any doubt.




...... Phil

 

[Sjouke Burry]

Brenda Ann wrote:

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:8l30juF9omU1@mid.individual.net...
** Do not use a comma for the decimal point - it is way too confusing.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the world uses a comma as a decimal point.

** Bullshit.

The US and Canada are about the only ones that use a period.


** Virtually the entire English speaking world uses the period.


..... Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Countries where a comma is used to mark the radix point include:

Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bolivia,
Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Canada
(French-speaking), Costa Rica, Croatia (comma used officially, but both
forms are in use elsewhere), Chile, Colombia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic,
Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Faroes, Finland,
France, Germany, Greece, Greenland, Guatemala, Honduras, Hungary, Indonesia,
Iceland, Italy, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg (uses both
separators officially), Macedonia, Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Nicaragua,
Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia,
South Africa (officially, but dot point is commonly used in business, even
though South Africa used to be in the British Empire, which is considered to
be strange by quite a few people in Britain), Slovenia, Spain, Sweden,
Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Venezuela, Vietnam.

Did you collect country names at random?

Netherlands uses the comma only in text,
never to indicate fractions.

 

[David Nebenzahl]

On 11/23/2010 6:35 PM Sjouke Burry spake thus:

Brenda Ann wrote:

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:8l30juF9omU1@mid.individual.net...
** Do not use a comma for the decimal point - it is way too confusing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the world uses a comma as a decimal point.

** Bullshit.

The US and Canada are about the only ones that use a period.


** Virtually the entire English speaking world uses the period.

Countries where a comma is used to mark the radix point include:

Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bolivia,
Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Canada
(French-speaking), Costa Rica, Croatia (comma used officially, but both
forms are in use elsewhere), Chile, Colombia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic,
Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Faroes, Finland,
France, Germany, Greece, Greenland, Guatemala, Honduras, Hungary, Indonesia,
Iceland, Italy, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg (uses both
separators officially), Macedonia, Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Nicaragua,
Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia,
South Africa (officially, but dot point is commonly used in business, even
though South Africa used to be in the British Empire, which is considered to
be strange by quite a few people in Britain), Slovenia, Spain, Sweden,
Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Venezuela, Vietnam.

Did you collect country names at random?
Netherlands uses the comma only in text,
never to indicate fractions.

But we're not talking about fractions; we're talking about decimals.

Or are those terms equivalent in your country?


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Brenda Ann wrote:

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:8l30juF9omU1@mid.individual.net...
** Do not use a comma for the decimal point - it is way too confusing.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the world uses a comma as a decimal point.

** Bullshit.

The US and Canada are about the only ones that use a period.

** Virtually the entire English speaking world uses the period.

..... Phil

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Countries where a comma is used to mark the radix point include:

Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bolivia,
Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Canada
(French-speaking), Costa Rica, Croatia (comma used officially, but both
forms are in use elsewhere), Chile, Colombia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic,
Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Faroes, Finland,
France, Germany, Greece, Greenland, Guatemala, Honduras, Hungary, Indonesia,
Iceland, Italy, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg (uses both
separators officially), Macedonia, Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Nicaragua,
Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia,
South Africa (officially, but dot point is commonly used in business, even
though South Africa used to be in the British Empire, which is considered to
be strange by quite a few people in Britain), Slovenia, Spain, Sweden,
Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Venezuela, Vietnam.

Brenda, you're wasting your time trying to converse with Phil. He is
a mentally ill character in Australia, who frequently stops taking his
medication.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

 

[Sjouke Burry]

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 11/23/2010 6:35 PM Sjouke Burry spake thus:

Brenda Ann wrote:

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:8l30juF9omU1@mid.individual.net...
** Do not use a comma for the decimal point - it is way too confusing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the world uses a comma as a decimal point.
** Bullshit.

The US and Canada are about the only ones that use a period.

** Virtually the entire English speaking world uses the period.

Countries where a comma is used to mark the radix point include:

Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bolivia,
Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Canada
(French-speaking), Costa Rica, Croatia (comma used officially, but both
forms are in use elsewhere), Chile, Colombia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic,
Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Faroes, Finland,
France, Germany, Greece, Greenland, Guatemala, Honduras, Hungary, Indonesia,
Iceland, Italy, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg (uses both
separators officially), Macedonia, Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Nicaragua,
Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia,
South Africa (officially, but dot point is commonly used in business, even
though South Africa used to be in the British Empire, which is considered to
be strange by quite a few people in Britain), Slovenia, Spain, Sweden,
Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Venezuela, Vietnam.

Did you collect country names at random?
Netherlands uses the comma only in text,
never to indicate fractions.

But we're not talking about fractions; we're talking about decimals.

Or are those terms equivalent in your country?


Decimal is a type of fraction.

That still does not explain the random selection of country's,
unless one really likes to conduct a shitty discussion.

 

[Brenda Ann]

"Sjouke Burry" wrote in message
news:4cec9045$0$8923$703f8584@textnews.kpn.nl...

Countries where a comma is used to mark the radix point include:

Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium,
Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Canada
(French-speaking), Costa Rica, Croatia (comma used officially, but both
forms are in use elsewhere), Chile, Colombia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech
Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia,
Faroes, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Greenland, Guatemala,
Honduras, Hungary, Indonesia, Iceland, Italy, Kazakhstan, Latvia,
Lithuania, Luxembourg (uses both separators officially), Macedonia,
Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland,
Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, South Africa (officially,
but dot point is commonly used in business, even though South Africa
used to be in the British Empire, which is considered to be strange by
quite a few people in Britain), Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland,
Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Venezuela, Vietnam.

Did you collect country names at random?
Netherlands uses the comma only in text,
never to indicate fractions.

But we're not talking about fractions; we're talking about decimals.

Or are those terms equivalent in your country?


Decimal is a type of fraction.

That still does not explain the random selection of country's,
unless one really likes to conduct a shitty discussion.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The list is not random, and is found on many sites regarding finance, etc.
The site this particular list is from is:

http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Decimal_separator#Comma_countries

 

[David Nebenzahl]

On 11/23/2010 8:10 PM Sjouke Burry spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 11/23/2010 6:35 PM Sjouke Burry spake thus:

Netherlands uses the comma only in text,
never to indicate fractions.

But we're not talking about fractions; we're talking about decimals.

Or are those terms equivalent in your country?

Decimal is a type of fraction.

Technically, yes. But if you say (or write) "fraction", most English
speakers expect something in the form x/y, not x.y or x,y.

In other words, decimals are special cases of fractions, with their own
formatting.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

 

[Phil Allison]

"Brenda Ann" is an another ASD fucked IDIOT "

"Sjouke Burry" wrote in message
Countries where a comma is used to mark the radix point include:

Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium,
Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Canada
(French-speaking), Costa Rica, Croatia (comma used officially, but both
forms are in use elsewhere), Chile, Colombia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech
Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia,
Faroes, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Greenland, Guatemala,
Honduras, Hungary, Indonesia, Iceland, Italy, Kazakhstan, Latvia,
Lithuania, Luxembourg (uses both separators officially), Macedonia,
Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru,
Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, South Africa
(officially, but dot point is commonly used in business, even though
South Africa used to be in the British Empire, which is considered to
be strange by quite a few people in Britain), Slovenia, Spain, Sweden,
Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Venezuela, Vietnam.

Did you collect country names at random?
Netherlands uses the comma only in text,
never to indicate fractions.

But we're not talking about fractions; we're talking about decimals.

Or are those terms equivalent in your country?


Decimal is a type of fraction.

** Bollocks #2

That still does not explain the random selection of country's,

** Noting *random* about that selection of NON English speaking countries

- you lying pile of ASD fucked dung.




..... Phil

 

[Smitty Two]

In article <4cec9045$0$8923$703f8584@textnews.kpn.nl>,
Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> wrote:

That still does not explain the random selection of country's,
unless one really likes to conduct a shitty discussion.

I guess those are the same countries where the plural of country is
country's.

 

[N_Cook]

Brenda Ann <newsgroups@fullspectrumradio.org> wrote in message
news:K9udnSQtW4kL2XHRnZ2dnVY3gomdnZ2d@giganews.com...

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:8l2pujF1hkU1@mid.individual.net...


"Steve Sousa"

I have a tube radio to repair. It's output valve is an ELL80 (two EL95
in
one tube) and was broken at the base and the socket showed signs of
overheat and cold solder joints. I have the valve on order but when
checking the output transformers (it has 2) onde of them has a primary
resistance of ~900ohm and the other ~4000 ohm.


** Assuming the transformers are the same size and do the same job, the
one
with the 4000 ohm primary is stuffed.


I measured the turns ratio using a signal generator at 1khz and got 45,6
and 46,0


** Do not use a comma for the decimal point - it is way too confusing.



..... Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Most of the world uses a comma as a decimal point. The US and Canada are
about the only ones that use a period.

If the 4000 ohm one is shot then it should vary considerably with heating
and knocking. Hot air gun and a mallet. What is the amp ? (sorry if included
in the unread usual threaded diahrhoea)

 

[N_Cook]

If the 900 ohm one was shot then it implies some shorted turns that is
unlikely to change with heat and/or vibration

 

[Steve Sousa]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:8l2pujF1hkU1@mid.individual.net...

** Assuming the transformers are the same size and do the same job, the
one with the 4000 ohm primary is stuffed.


I measured the turns ratio using a signal generator at 1khz and got 45,6
and 46,0


** Do not use a comma for the decimal point - it is way too confusing.



..... Phil

Hello

Wouldn't it be possible to have an original 4000ohm shorted to 900ohm too?

Best Regards

 

[Steve Sousa]

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:icijdo$d1a$1@news.eternal-september.org...

If the 900 ohm one was shot then it implies some shorted turns that is
unlikely to change with heat and/or vibration

Hello:

the amp is a grundig como e/st, you can see a picture and the schematic at
http://meuble.radio.free.fr/stereo_console/grundig/index.html

i haven't removed the transformers because they are soldered to the chassis!
(the metal bracket is soldered to the chassis *and* the pcb)