OT: Why do flat-panel sets take so long to come on?

[William Sommerwerck]

My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly, is the
set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

 

[Bob Larter]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly, is the
set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

Synchronisation with the input signal, at a guess.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Sat, 30 May 2009 09:53:01 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly, is the
set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

CPU boot time
diagnostic checks
check for signal at input(s)
setting up items in memory (last used input, etc)

My Sharp has a "Wait" message that pops up almost immedately. The
signal from the "last used input" takes much longer.

Looks very much like booting a PC: put something up immediately (boot
ROM on motherboard) then start the operating system and its "wait
while I get started" logo.

John

 

[Meat Plow]

On Sat, 30 May 2009 09:53:01 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net>wrote:

My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly, is the
set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

Depends on what you mean by 'display an image'. Does it have
backlight while you wait forever. And how long is 'forever' ? If it's
over ten seconds I'd be surprised.

I'm sure that all flat panel sets have a CPU that does a POST. Vizio
being one of the more economic sets might be slower at processing the
POST for whatever reasons. I own an Olevia 42" and it fires up within
5 seconds or less.

 

[AZ Nomad]

On Sat, 30 May 2009 09:53:01 -0700, William Sommerwerck <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly, is the
set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

Probably a slow processor just doing software initialization.

A 2004 LCD I have takes 7 seconds.
A 2007 plasma takes 4 seconds.

What is your idea of forever? 10 seconds?

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 30 May 2009 09:53:01 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly, is the
set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

Nope. It's the time delay needed for the DTV set firmware to contact
the RIAA or MPAA DRM server to obtain permission for you to watch
copyrighted content on your DTV. The time delay length depends on
your location relative to various towers, satellites, or worst case,
the transponder they left on the moon. The initial delay is a small
price to pay for keeping you legal, honest, and out of trouble with
the RIAA and MPAA attorneys.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[William Sommerwerck]

My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly,
is the set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

Nope. It's the time delay needed for the DTV set firmware to contact
the RIAA or MPAA DRM server to obtain permission for you to watch
copyrighted content on your DTV. The time delay length depends on
your location relative to various towers, satellites, or worst case,
the transponder they left on the moon. The initial delay is a small
price to pay for keeping you legal, honest, and out of trouble with
the RIAA and MPAA attorneys.

Not a great joke, but the best one I've heard today.Thanks.

 

[Bob Larter]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 30 May 2009 09:53:01 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly, is the
set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

Nope. It's the time delay needed for the DTV set firmware to contact
the RIAA or MPAA DRM server to obtain permission for you to watch
copyrighted content on your DTV. The time delay length depends on
your location relative to various towers, satellites, or worst case,
the transponder they left on the moon. The initial delay is a small
price to pay for keeping you legal, honest, and out of trouble with
the RIAA and MPAA attorneys.

LOL.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Trevor Wilson]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gvroa1$8hd$1@news.eternal-september.org...

My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly, is
the
set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

**Modern digital receivers are not receivers in the traditional sense. They
are fully blown personal computers, which happen to have a TV tuner
attached. They still perform all the usual checks, before booting.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[AZ Nomad]

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:30:20 +1000, Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gvroa1$8hd$1@news.eternal-september.org...
My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly, is
the
set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

**Modern digital receivers are not receivers in the traditional sense. They
are fully blown personal computers, which happen to have a TV tuner
attached. They still perform all the usual checks, before booting.

They aren't full bloan personal computers. I can't recall the last TV
set that came with an operating system capable of running the kinds of
applications people typically have on their PC. They might have linux
burried inside, but they're not going to have enough capability to
let you do anything but run the single embedded application.

The similarity is that they have a processor, a program probably in ROM maybe
in flash, RAM, etc.

So did a TV or VCR of 10 years ago. So do most microwave ovens today
and even my toaster. None of them require enough boot time to be noticeable.

 

[Meat Plow]

On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:58:16 +1000, Bob Larter
<bobbylarter@gmail.com>wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 30 May 2009 09:53:01 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly, is the
set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

Nope. It's the time delay needed for the DTV set firmware to contact
the RIAA or MPAA DRM server to obtain permission for you to watch
copyrighted content on your DTV. The time delay length depends on
your location relative to various towers, satellites, or worst case,
the transponder they left on the moon. The initial delay is a small
price to pay for keeping you legal, honest, and out of trouble with
the RIAA and MPAA attorneys.

LOL.

Don't laff too loud. It wouldn't surprise me if some day in the future
some of that comes to fruition.

 

[Meat Plow]

On Sun, 31 May 2009 19:00:33 -0500, AZ Nomad
<aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM>wrote:

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:30:20 +1000, Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gvroa1$8hd$1@news.eternal-september.org...
My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly, is
the
set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

**Modern digital receivers are not receivers in the traditional sense. They
are fully blown personal computers, which happen to have a TV tuner
attached. They still perform all the usual checks, before booting.

They aren't full bloan personal computers. I can't recall the last TV
set that came with an operating system capable of running the kinds of
applications people typically have on their PC. They might have linux
burried inside, but they're not going to have enough capability to
let you do anything but run the single embedded application.

The similarity is that they have a processor, a program probably in ROM maybe
in flash, RAM, etc.

So did a TV or VCR of 10 years ago. So do most microwave ovens today
and even my toaster. None of them require enough boot time to be noticeable.

I would agree with the minimal boot time but most sets of this genre
run an embedded operating system and go through a self test which
requires some computational agility. So seeing that some hand held
games can actually run lite versions of XP/Linux while other games
like XBOX run embedded operating systems it's not far fetched to
assume a technically advance piece of equipment like a flat panel
tv have enough cpu power under the covers to run an interactive
operating system.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly,
is the set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

Nope. It's the time delay needed for the DTV set firmware to contact
the RIAA or MPAA DRM server to obtain permission for you to watch
copyrighted content on your DTV. The time delay length depends on
your location relative to various towers, satellites, or worst case,
the transponder they left on the moon. The initial delay is a small
price to pay for keeping you legal, honest, and out of trouble with
the RIAA and MPAA attorneys.

LOL.

Don't laff too loud. It wouldn't surprise me if some day in the future
some of that comes to fruition.

It's likely not far off. Note that many Blu-ray players have an option for
Internet access.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 10:37:28 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly,
is the set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

Nope. It's the time delay needed for the DTV set firmware to contact
the RIAA or MPAA DRM server to obtain permission for you to watch
copyrighted content on your DTV. The time delay length depends on
your location relative to various towers, satellites, or worst case,
the transponder they left on the moon. The initial delay is a small
price to pay for keeping you legal, honest, and out of trouble with
the RIAA and MPAA attorneys.

LOL.

Don't laff too loud. It wouldn't surprise me if some day in the future
some of that comes to fruition.

It's likely not far off. Note that many Blu-ray players have an option for
Internet access.

Most of my fabrications are amazingly close to the truth (or they
wouldn't make a good conspiracy theory). I'm sure DRM via the
internet has been suggested, tested, and probably patented. I know
Sony had such a scheme, but I have no idea what happened to it.

One of my neighbors just bought a Samsung Blue-Ray player with built
in Netflix decoder. I'll try to fire up the sniffer and see if it
phones home. I wouldn't be surprised if it does.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Bob Larter]

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 10:37:28 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly,
is the set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?
Nope. It's the time delay needed for the DTV set firmware to contact
the RIAA or MPAA DRM server to obtain permission for you to watch
copyrighted content on your DTV. The time delay length depends on
your location relative to various towers, satellites, or worst case,
the transponder they left on the moon. The initial delay is a small
price to pay for keeping you legal, honest, and out of trouble with
the RIAA and MPAA attorneys.
LOL.
Don't laff too loud. It wouldn't surprise me if some day in the future
some of that comes to fruition.
It's likely not far off. Note that many Blu-ray players have an option for
Internet access.

Most of my fabrications are amazingly close to the truth (or they
wouldn't make a good conspiracy theory). I'm sure DRM via the
internet has been suggested, tested, and probably patented.

Are you kidding? Download a (legal) song or movie from the net & it
already happens now. Hell, just install a major piece of software (eg;
Photoshop or Word) & just watch the traffic spike on your firewall.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

 

[OpaPiloot]

Meat Plow wrote:

On Sun, 31 May 2009 19:00:33 -0500, AZ Nomad
aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM>wrote:

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:30:20 +1000, Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gvroa1$8hd$1@news.eternal-september.org...
My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly, is
the
set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

**Modern digital receivers are not receivers in the traditional sense. They
are fully blown personal computers, which happen to have a TV tuner
attached. They still perform all the usual checks, before booting.

They aren't full bloan personal computers. I can't recall the last TV
set that came with an operating system capable of running the kinds of
applications people typically have on their PC. They might have linux
burried inside, but they're not going to have enough capability to
let you do anything but run the single embedded application.

The similarity is that they have a processor, a program probably in ROM maybe
in flash, RAM, etc.

So did a TV or VCR of 10 years ago. So do most microwave ovens today
and even my toaster. None of them require enough boot time to be noticeable.

I would agree with the minimal boot time but most sets of this genre
run an embedded operating system and go through a self test which
requires some computational agility. So seeing that some hand held
games can actually run lite versions of XP/Linux while other games
like XBOX run embedded operating systems it's not far fetched to
assume a technically advance piece of equipment like a flat panel
tv have enough cpu power under the covers to run an interactive
operating system.

Currently a lot of TV's have USB and LAN connectivity and are able to playback media files
from hard disks or memory cards via those connections.
Moreover, the first TV's wih integrated internet browsers are already available.
Linux may be found as embedded OS in Philips flat TV's.



--
Veel plezier
Have fun
Bert

 

[AZ Nomad]

On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:36:59 -0400, Meat Plow <meat@petitmorte.net> wrote:

I would agree with the minimal boot time but most sets of this genre
run an embedded operating system and go through a self test which
requires some computational agility. So seeing that some hand held
games can actually run lite versions of XP/Linux while other games
like XBOX run embedded operating systems it's not far fetched to
assume a technically advance piece of equipment like a flat panel
tv have enough cpu power under the covers to run an interactive
operating system.

What the tv makers need to do is let the tv come on before the OS
finishes booting and let the bootup continue in the background.

IE: If the software for a web browser needs 15 seconds to initialize, there's no
reason the TV itself can't be displaying a RF or video input after 2 seconds.

 

[Meat Plow]

On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 10:36:52 +0100, OpaPiloot <me@forget._it>wrote:

Meat Plow wrote:

On Sun, 31 May 2009 19:00:33 -0500, AZ Nomad
aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM>wrote:

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:30:20 +1000, Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gvroa1$8hd$1@news.eternal-september.org...
My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly, is
the
set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

**Modern digital receivers are not receivers in the traditional sense. They
are fully blown personal computers, which happen to have a TV tuner
attached. They still perform all the usual checks, before booting.

They aren't full bloan personal computers. I can't recall the last TV
set that came with an operating system capable of running the kinds of
applications people typically have on their PC. They might have linux
burried inside, but they're not going to have enough capability to
let you do anything but run the single embedded application.

The similarity is that they have a processor, a program probably in ROM maybe
in flash, RAM, etc.

So did a TV or VCR of 10 years ago. So do most microwave ovens today
and even my toaster. None of them require enough boot time to be noticeable.

I would agree with the minimal boot time but most sets of this genre
run an embedded operating system and go through a self test which
requires some computational agility. So seeing that some hand held
games can actually run lite versions of XP/Linux while other games
like XBOX run embedded operating systems it's not far fetched to
assume a technically advance piece of equipment like a flat panel
tv have enough cpu power under the covers to run an interactive
operating system.

Currently a lot of TV's have USB and LAN connectivity and are able to playback media files
from hard disks or memory cards via those connections.
Moreover, the first TV's wih integrated internet browsers are already available.
Linux may be found as embedded OS in Philips flat TV's.

I've found a lot of electronics devices with POSIX kernels embedded.
My SA 8130HD DVR is loaded with peripheral connections. I use an eSATA
drive for extra recording time and a USB keyboard to search upcoming
recording interests. The internal drive can only record 20 hours of HD
programming so I added the eSATA drive to double it. I can also
connect the 8130 to a PC via 1394 and record direct to the PC from
either tuner. My Olevia TV has USB to upload new software.

So yes embedded operating systems have been around for years. And they
do sometimes take a few moments to POST and other things before you
can watch/use them. I've waited up to 20 minutes for the DVR to reboot
after a software upgrade.

 

[Meat Plow]

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 10:37:28 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net>wrote:

My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly,
is the set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?

Nope. It's the time delay needed for the DTV set firmware to contact
the RIAA or MPAA DRM server to obtain permission for you to watch
copyrighted content on your DTV. The time delay length depends on
your location relative to various towers, satellites, or worst case,
the transponder they left on the moon. The initial delay is a small
price to pay for keeping you legal, honest, and out of trouble with
the RIAA and MPAA attorneys.

LOL.

Don't laff too loud. It wouldn't surprise me if some day in the future
some of that comes to fruition.

It's likely not far off. Note that many Blu-ray players have an option for
Internet access.

My stand alone Panasonic DVDR will NOT record most programming

recorded on my Direct TV DVR.

It's not a case of deformed picture or audio, it tells you flat out
that it won't record protected content. However I was able to
transfer a couple recordings to my PC via an analog A/V input device
with no problems.

I have not tried it yet on my Time Warner SA 8130HD DVR.
Nor have I tried it with my stand alone Light On DVDR or my Sony
DVDR/VHS combo stand alone.

 

[Meat Plow]

On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 06:02:14 +1000, Bob Larter
<bobbylarter@gmail.com>wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 10:37:28 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

My Vizio seems to take "forever" to display an image. What, exactly,
is the set "waiting for"? CCFL HV driver stability? Something else?
Nope. It's the time delay needed for the DTV set firmware to contact
the RIAA or MPAA DRM server to obtain permission for you to watch
copyrighted content on your DTV. The time delay length depends on
your location relative to various towers, satellites, or worst case,
the transponder they left on the moon. The initial delay is a small
price to pay for keeping you legal, honest, and out of trouble with
the RIAA and MPAA attorneys.
LOL.
Don't laff too loud. It wouldn't surprise me if some day in the future
some of that comes to fruition.
It's likely not far off. Note that many Blu-ray players have an option for
Internet access.

Most of my fabrications are amazingly close to the truth (or they
wouldn't make a good conspiracy theory). I'm sure DRM via the
internet has been suggested, tested, and probably patented.

Are you kidding? Download a (legal) song or movie from the net & it
already happens now. Hell, just install a major piece of software (eg;
Photoshop or Word) & just watch the traffic spike on your firewall.

Adobe CS4 is the phone home King. I just added a couple of their phone
home entries into my hosts file to reroute the traffic to 127.0.0.1

Smart arent I?