OT: what's the best value HD Monitor for Satellite TV System

[Robert Macy]

Looking for a good value TV monitor capable of HD

Goes on a fireplace mantle, or bolted to thw wall above the mantle
like at a sports bar

Like to be under $1,000, want color, lifetime, maintenance free.

What's the best value for the dollar?

 

[William Sommerwerck]

I would look first at Vizio, which represent terrific value for the money.
But I can't recommend a specific model. You'll have to look carefully
yourself.

 

On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 10:43:19 -0700 (PDT), Robert Macy
<robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote:

Looking for a good value TV monitor capable of HD

Goes on a fireplace mantle, or bolted to thw wall above the mantle
like at a sports bar

Like to be under $1,000, want color, lifetime, maintenance free.

What's the best value for the dollar?
My first reaction was 'What a dummy'. Let's look at your

requirements.

1. Mounting above a fireplace. Unless it is a purely decorative
fireplace, that is a very bad place to mount a TV. Even if it is a
decorative fireplace, it may place the TV too high for comfortable
viewing.

2. Bolting to the wall. Virtually any flat panel TV larger than 15"
has 'hard points' to allow attaching mounting brackets.

3. Under $1000 - that excludes many TVs over 55", and most 3D TVs.

4. Color - It's virtually impossible to buy a large screen TV that
does not display colors, so I presume you mean color fidelity. That
suggests you want a plasma TV, definitely not an LED backlit LCD TV.

5. 'Lifetime' - do you mean reliability? The only way you will find a
TV that lasts a lifetime is if you get a contract to have someone kill
you when the TV fails.

6. Maintenance free - that's another pipe dream.

NOW if you combine 5 and 6 into 'Reputation for low failure rate', you
do have something reasonable.

First of all, stay away from the house brands sold by Best Buy; stay
away from the RCA, Westinghouse, Sylvania, Polaroid, Memorex, etc.
'Names' that are no longer being built by the companies that made them
famous. And stay away from the Emerson, Haier, Coby, etc that never
had a good reputation.

Second, I would suggest staying away from Vizio unless you buy it from
a company such as Costco, which adds a second year to the warranty and
has a 'no questions asked' return policy. Vizio's warranty repair
service usually requires you return the TV to thier service center at
your expense. And they have no factory authorized repair service once
the TV is out of warranty.

My suggestion is to buy a Panasonic 46" 1080P Plasma TV. Panasonic
plasma TVs have a reputation for better long term reliability than
Sony, Samsung, and LG, and for better color rendition than LCD.

PlainBill

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per William Sommerwerck:

I would look first at Vizio, which represent terrific value for the money.
But I can't recommend a specific model. You'll have to look carefully
yourself.

I got a Vizio bco the lower cost vs comparable devices
feature-wise.

That was about a year ago - and it's still working, but acting
funny - losing the sound when I change program sources. When it
does that, I have to select another program source and then
select the desired program source again and the sound comes back.

Also, their implementation of PIP (which was my "Must Have"
feature) leaves something to desired. If you have the TV in PIP
mode and then shut it down, it does not restore it's state
properly when started back up: it comes back in single-screen
mode tuned to whichever program source was in the front when it
shout down.

Likewise.... the implementation of what Vizio calls "Widgets" is
sloppy. Open up a Widget in PIP mode, and PIP mode goes away
never to return until you re-establish it manually.
--
PeteCresswell

 

[Robert Macy]

On Jul 30, 12:00 pm, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgee...@comcast.net> wrote:

I would look first at Vizio, which represent terrific value for the money..
But I can't recommend a specific model. You'll have to look carefully
yourself.

Thank you for your reply. I had heard several good comments about
Vizio, including their color fidelity. Plus, they distribute out of
Costco, which makes a good 'buffer'

 

[Robert Macy]

On Jul 30, 1:12 pm, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 10:43:19 -0700 (PDT), Robert Macy

robert.a.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
Looking for a good value TV monitor capable of HD

Goes on a fireplace mantle, or bolted to thw wall above the mantle
like at a sports bar

Like to be under $1,000, want color, lifetime, maintenance free.

What's the best value for the dollar?

My first reaction was 'What a dummy'.  Let's look at your
requirements.

1.  Mounting above a fireplace.  Unless it is a purely decorative
fireplace, that is a very bad place to mount a TV.  Even if it is a
decorative fireplace, it may place the TV too high for comfortable
viewing.

2.  Bolting to the wall.  Virtually any flat panel TV larger  than 15"
has 'hard points' to allow attaching mounting brackets.  

3.  Under $1000 - that excludes many TVs over 55", and most 3D TVs.  

4.  Color - It's virtually impossible to buy a large screen TV that
does not display colors, so I presume you mean color fidelity.  That
suggests you want a plasma TV, definitely not an LED backlit LCD TV.

5. 'Lifetime' - do you mean reliability?  The only way you will find a
TV that lasts a lifetime is if you get a contract to have someone kill
you when the TV fails.

6. Maintenance free - that's another pipe dream.  

NOW if you combine 5 and 6 into 'Reputation for low failure rate', you
do have something reasonable.

First of all, stay away from the house brands sold by Best Buy; stay
away from the RCA, Westinghouse, Sylvania, Polaroid, Memorex, etc.
'Names' that are no longer being built by the companies that made them
famous. And stay away from the Emerson, Haier, Coby, etc that never
had a good reputation.

Second, I would suggest staying away from Vizio unless you buy it from
a company such as Costco, which adds a second year to the warranty and
has a 'no questions asked' return policy.  Vizio's warranty repair
service usually requires you return the TV to thier service center at
your expense. And they have no factory authorized repair service once
the TV is out of warranty.

My suggestion is to buy a Panasonic 46" 1080P Plasma TV.  Panasonic
plasma TVs have a reputation for better long term reliability than
Sony, Samsung, and LG, and for better color rendition than LCD.  

PlainBill

I purposely ask questions in a naive manner. It prevents antagonizing
potential responders and illicits some of the best information.

For example, thank you for recommending a specific model. Plus,
making me aware that the plasma monitor has the best color fidelity.

 

[Robert Macy]

On Jul 30, 5:39 pm, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote:

Per William Sommerwerck:

I would look first at Vizio, which represent terrific value for the money.
But I can't recommend a specific model. You'll have to look carefully
yourself.

I got a Vizio bco the lower cost vs comparable devices
feature-wise.

That was about a year ago - and it's still working, but acting
funny - losing the sound when I change program sources.  When it
does that, I have to select another program source and then
select the desired program source again and the sound comes back.

Also, their implementation of PIP (which was my "Must Have"
feature) leaves something to desired.   If you have the TV in PIP
mode and then shut it down, it does not restore it's state
properly when started back up: it comes back in single-screen
mode tuned to whichever program source was in the front when it
shout down.

Likewise.... the implementation of what Vizio calls "Widgets" is
sloppy. Open up a Widget in PIP mode, and PIP mode goes away
never to return until you re-establish it manually.
--
PeteCresswell

Thank you for the detailed description of the SW problems in Vizio.
Although Vizio has been recommended by several people (including
neighbors) it is worthwhile to be aware that their SW will cause
frustrations.

 

[Robert Macy]

On Jul 30, 1:12 pm, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
....snip...

4.  Color - It's virtually impossible to buy a large screen TV that
does not display colors, so I presume you mean color fidelity.  That
suggests you want a plasma TV, definitely not an LED backlit LCD TV.
....snip...
PlainBill

I read and reread this. This is EXACTLY the kind of information that
seems to be obfuscated everywhere.

Sony [salesman] claims the best is the Sony LED backlit LCD screen
because it has INFINITE contrast ratio. In digging into that claim I
discovered that only means the pixels are completely independent. But
he could not answer why that was not also true for the fluorescent
backlit panel, which intuitively seems like it should operate the
same.

Wikipedia! very small mention that plasma has a wide dynamic display
range - black is black because there is no energy, where as backlit
LCD screens can only go to gray.because they are 'covering up' the
backlit source.

New wrinkle is that plasma eats power and weighs a ton more.

Is there any objective reporting anywhere on display comparison?

For example, dynamic ratio of display, color fidelity, light output vs
power input, contrast ratio, etc etc

Sommerwerk(sp?) comment about KURO set to maximum sharpness makes
sense. Edge enhancement helps solve my myopia.

Regards,
Robert

PS During the time google newsgroup acess died, I changed to eternal-
september but @#$%#@% so I'm back to google access to this Usenet. and
google access seems to have stabilized a bit.

..

 

On Fri, 12 Aug 2011 08:17:19 -0700 (PDT), Robert Macy
<robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jul 30, 1:12 pm, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
...snip...
4.  Color - It's virtually impossible to buy a large screen TV that
does not display colors, so I presume you mean color fidelity.  That
suggests you want a plasma TV, definitely not an LED backlit LCD TV.
...snip...
PlainBill

I read and reread this. This is EXACTLY the kind of information that
seems to be obfuscated everywhere.

Sony [salesman] claims the best is the Sony LED backlit LCD screen
because it has INFINITE contrast ratio. In digging into that claim I
discovered that only means the pixels are completely independent. But
he could not answer why that was not also true for the fluorescent
backlit panel, which intuitively seems like it should operate the
same.

Wikipedia! very small mention that plasma has a wide dynamic display
range - black is black because there is no energy, where as backlit
LCD screens can only go to gray.because they are 'covering up' the
backlit source.

New wrinkle is that plasma eats power and weighs a ton more.

Is there any objective reporting anywhere on display comparison?

For example, dynamic ratio of display, color fidelity, light output vs
power input, contrast ratio, etc etc

Sommerwerk(sp?) comment about KURO set to maximum sharpness makes
sense. Edge enhancement helps solve my myopia.

Regards,
Robert

PS During the time google newsgroup acess died, I changed to eternal-
september but @#$%#@% so I'm back to google access to this Usenet. and
google access seems to have stabilized a bit.

.
'Eats Power' is relative. Samsung's PN50C550 (50" plasma) draws 165

watts, and costs an estimated $2.50 a month to operate. I've got a
Sony KDL-32XBR4 (32" LCD) that would draw 190 watts if it were
working. I have a 42" plasma in the family room that draws about 350
watts - and is 6 years old (I bought it 'dead', fixed it for under
$10, and put it in use.

Seriously very few things about purchasing a TV are objective. You
can slap a 'Kill A Watt' on the power cord and determine how much
power it draws. Brightness can be measured with appropriate
equipment, as can the frequency response of the audio system.

It may have escaped your attention, but most of the critical
parameters are subjective, and on that subject, you are the expert.
Get you kiester over to Walmart, Target, Best Buy, Costco, or
where-ever and look at some sets inclose proximity. Write down the
model numbers, go home and do some research. If you don't like the
picture on a $999 LCD in the store, odds are you aren't going to like
it better at home.

PlainBill

 

On Aug 12, 8:17 am, Robert Macy <robert.a.m...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jul 30, 1:12 pm, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
...snip...

4.  Color - It's virtually impossible to buy a large screen TV that
does not display colors, so I presume you mean color fidelity.  That
suggests you want a plasma TV, definitely not an LED backlit LCD TV.
...snip...
PlainBill

I read and reread this.  This is EXACTLY the kind of information that
seems to be obfuscated everywhere.

Sony [salesman] claims the best is the Sony LED backlit LCD screen
because it has INFINITE contrast ratio.  In digging into that claim I
discovered that only means the pixels are completely independent. But
he could not answer why that was not also true for the fluorescent
backlit panel, which intuitively seems like it should operate the
same.

Wikipedia!  very small mention that plasma has a wide dynamic display
range - black is black because there is no energy, where as backlit
LCD screens can only go to gray.because they are 'covering up' the
backlit source.

New wrinkle is that plasma eats power and weighs a ton more.

Is there any objective reporting anywhere on display comparison?

For example, dynamic ratio of display, color fidelity, light output vs
power input, contrast ratio, etc etc

Sommerwerk(sp?) comment about KURO set to maximum sharpness makes
sense.  Edge enhancement helps solve my myopia.

Regards,
Robert

PS During the time google newsgroup acess died, I changed to eternal-
september but @#$%#@% so I'm back to google access to this Usenet. and
google access seems to have stabilized a bit.

.

While I agree that plasma has better color, but life issues and power
consumption differences are hard to ignore. We bought a 55" LG LED set
last fall that is very impressive (1.2" thick, 80 lbs) AND it does
that on a paltry 78 Watts (measured with a Kill A Watt). The color is
very good. I used to do monitor alignment at a THX certified telecine
facility so I'm not just blowing smoke. Remember the the biggest enemy
of electronics is heat and 80 Watts spread out across a 55" monitor
only gets barely warm. The HDMI link from the HTPC does 1:1 pixel
mapping so is a most impressive computer monitor and is oustanding for
recorded HDTV shows.

Bottom line is check them out before dismissing them out of hand. Of
course when the OLED monitors show up all of this will be moot. I've
seen the 30" Sony BVM OLED on a demo and it puts EVERYTHING else to
shame though at $30,000 it's expected. Remember the first CD players
at $900 so its only a matter of time.

G˛

 

[gregz]

<stratus46@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 12, 8:17 am, Robert Macy <robert.a.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jul 30, 1:12 pm, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
...snip...

4. Color - It's virtually impossible to buy a large screen TV that
does not display colors, so I presume you mean color fidelity. That
suggests you want a plasma TV, definitely not an LED backlit LCD TV.
...snip...
PlainBill

I read and reread this. This is EXACTLY the kind of information that
seems to be obfuscated everywhere.

Sony [salesman] claims the best is the Sony LED backlit LCD screen
because it has INFINITE contrast ratio. In digging into that claim I
discovered that only means the pixels are completely independent. But
he could not answer why that was not also true for the fluorescent
backlit panel, which intuitively seems like it should operate the
same.

Wikipedia! very small mention that plasma has a wide dynamic display
range - black is black because there is no energy, where as backlit
LCD screens can only go to gray.because they are 'covering up' the
backlit source.

New wrinkle is that plasma eats power and weighs a ton more.

Is there any objective reporting anywhere on display comparison?

For example, dynamic ratio of display, color fidelity, light output vs
power input, contrast ratio, etc etc

Sommerwerk(sp?) comment about KURO set to maximum sharpness makes
sense. Edge enhancement helps solve my myopia.

Regards,
Robert

PS During the time google newsgroup acess died, I changed to eternal-
september but @#$%#@% so I'm back to google access to this Usenet. and
google access seems to have stabilized a bit.

.

While I agree that plasma has better color, but life issues and power
consumption differences are hard to ignore. We bought a 55" LG LED set
last fall that is very impressive (1.2" thick, 80 lbs) AND it does
that on a paltry 78 Watts (measured with a Kill A Watt). The color is
very good. I used to do monitor alignment at a THX certified telecine
facility so I'm not just blowing smoke. Remember the the biggest enemy
of electronics is heat and 80 Watts spread out across a 55" monitor
only gets barely warm. The HDMI link from the HTPC does 1:1 pixel
mapping so is a most impressive computer monitor and is oustanding for
recorded HDTV shows.

Bottom line is check them out before dismissing them out of hand. Of
course when the OLED monitors show up all of this will be moot. I've
seen the 30" Sony BVM OLED on a demo and it puts EVERYTHING else to
shame though at $30,000 it's expected. Remember the first CD players
at $900 so its only a matter of time.

G²

I walk by a plasma tv in the store and I can feel the heat radiating.
Plasma is pretty much out of the question, as all I have seen have shiny or
have glair. It's also easy to feel the tops of the tv's in the store and
compare heat.

My new, cheap tv, is a little different. I have seen lcds loose brightness
off to the side. Mine just loses contrast.

Greg

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Robert Macy" <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:816afcdd-46b1-4439-a2f0-e52290193034@b34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 30, 1:12 pm, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
....snip...

4. Color - It's virtually impossible to buy a large screen TV that
does not display colors, so I presume you mean color fidelity. That
suggests you want a plasma TV, definitely not an LED backlit LCD TV.
....snip...
PlainBill

I read and reread this. This is EXACTLY the kind of information that
seems to be obfuscated everywhere.

Sony [salesman] claims the best is the Sony LED backlit LCD screen
because it has INFINITE contrast ratio. In digging into that claim I
discovered that only means the pixels are completely independent. But
he could not answer why that was not also true for the fluorescent
backlit panel, which intuitively seems like it should operate the
same.

Wikipedia! very small mention that plasma has a wide dynamic display
range - black is black because there is no energy, where as backlit
LCD screens can only go to gray.because they are 'covering up' the
backlit source.

New wrinkle is that plasma eats power and weighs a ton more.

Is there any objective reporting anywhere on display comparison?

For example, dynamic ratio of display, color fidelity, light output vs
power input, contrast ratio, etc etc

Sommerwerk(sp?) comment about KURO set to maximum sharpness makes
sense. Edge enhancement helps solve my myopia.



Almost everything preceding is incorrect or misleading.

There is no LCD or plasma set with an "infinite" contrast ratio. LCDs cannot
block "all" light, and plasma cells have a small bias on them that causes
them to emit light even when the signal is full-black.

LCDs can have as good color fidelity as plasmas. Neither has an inherent
advantage.

It's Sommerwerck. Note the "c".

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"gregz" <zekor@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:413706206334979824.214148zekor-comcast.net@news.eternal-september.org...

stratus46@yahoo.com> wrote:

I walk by a plasma tv in the store and I can feel the heat radiating.

Yes, but when you sit there and watch that drop-dead-gorgeous 60" picture,
the 5 cents/hour operating cost fades away.

Plasma is pretty much out of the question, as all I have seen have shiny
or have glair.

"Have glair"?

Those of you into photography know that a gloss print has higher contrast
than a matte print. Why? Because glossy surfaces reflect the light at the
same angle it struck, while matte surfaces /scatter/ it -- to your eye --
lightening dark areas.

The fact is that, regardless of display technology, you're going to get the
best picture only in a dim or dark room. In a dark room, surface reflections
from a glossy surface aren't much of problem.

 

[Robert Macy]

On Aug 14, 1:38 am, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:

"Robert Macy" <robert.a.m...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:816afcdd-46b1-4439-a2f0-e52290193034@b34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 30, 1:12 pm, PlainB...@yawhoo.com wrote:
...snip...



4. Color - It's virtually impossible to buy a large screen TV that
does not display colors, so I presume you mean color fidelity. That
suggests you want a plasma TV, definitely not an LED backlit LCD TV.
...snip...
PlainBill

I read and reread this. This is EXACTLY the kind of information that
seems to be obfuscated everywhere.

Sony [salesman] claims the best is the Sony LED backlit LCD screen
because it has INFINITE contrast ratio.  In digging into that claim I
discovered that only means the pixels are completely independent. But
he could not answer why that was not also true for the fluorescent
backlit panel, which intuitively seems like it should operate the
same.

Wikipedia!  very small mention that plasma has a wide dynamic display
range - black is black because there is no energy, where as backlit
LCD screens can only go to gray.because they are 'covering up' the
backlit source.

New wrinkle is that plasma eats power and weighs a ton more.

Is there any objective reporting anywhere on display comparison?

For example, dynamic ratio of display, color fidelity, light output vs
power input, contrast ratio, etc etc

Sommerwerk(sp?) comment about KURO set to maximum sharpness makes
sense.  Edge enhancement helps solve my myopia.

Almost everything preceding is incorrect or misleading.

There is no LCD or plasma set with an "infinite" contrast ratio. LCDs cannot
block "all" light, and plasma cells have a small bias on them that causes
them to emit light even when the signal is full-black.

LCDs can have as good color fidelity as plasmas. Neither has an inherent
advantage.

It's Sommerwerck. Note the "c".

Apologies for misspelling. Memory for alpha characters is zip, memory
for numbers last for years.

Yes, you caught the subtlety of Sony's "infinite contrast ratio"
claim, that adjacent pixels are independent, but their INDIVIDUAL
contrast ratio is as expected. More useless marketing blather.

Thank you for pointing out there should be little difference in color
purity between the plasmas and the LCDs. I was leaning toward the
LCDs because of lower power, lighter weight, and I actually understand
LCD technology. I once worked with an LCD company that had the
brightest, highest contrast ratio, widest temperature range LCD
screens - at one time this company's LCD's were the only fully
qualified displays for use in military fighter cockpits. I think it
was called Image Quest, absolutely awesome technology.

Regards,
Robert

PS google newsgroup access seems to be back. That's how I caught
this reply. Using eternal-september absolutely missed it somehow.

 

[Adam Sampson]

Robert Macy <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> writes:

claims the best is the Sony LED backlit LCD screen
because it has INFINITE contrast ratio. [...] But he could not answer
why that was not also true for the fluorescent backlit panel, which
intuitively seems like it should operate the same.

You can build LED-backlit LCD displays in at least two ways:

- have a single diffuse backlight as with regular LCD displays, but use
LEDs to illuminate the diffuser rather than fluorescent lighting;

- break the backlight up into multiple sections, effectively giving you
a high-resolution LCD filter on top of a low-resolution LED display.

The latter does indeed give you better contrast ratio, since you can
turn down the backlighting selectively in darker areas. The former's
cheaper and simpler, though, so it's more common.

--
Adam Sampson <ats@offog.org> <http://offog.org/>