OT: Scott Ridder on Fallujah

F

Fred Bloggs

Guest
Squeezing jello in Iraq
By Scott Ritter

The much-anticipated US-led offensive to seize the Iraqi city of Falluja
from anti-American Iraqi fighters has begun. Meeting resistance that,
while stiff at times, was much less than had been anticipated, US
Marines and soldiers, accompanied by Iraqi forces loyal to the interim
government of Iyad Allawi, have moved into the heart of Falluja.

Fighting is expected to continue for a few more days, but US commanders
are confident that Falluja will soon be under US control, paving the way
for the establishment of order necessary for nation-wide elections
currently scheduled for January 2005.

But will it? American military planners expected to face thousands of
Iraqi resistance fighters in the streets of Falluja, not the hundreds
they are currently fighting. They expected to roll up the network of Abu
Musab al-Zarqawi and his foreign Islamic militants, and yet to date have
found no top-tier leaders from that organization. As American forces
surge into Falluja, Iraqi fighters are mounting extensive attacks
throughout the rest of Iraq.

Far from facing off in a decisive battle against the resistance
fighters, it seems the more Americans squeeze Falluja, the more the
violence explodes elsewhere. It is exercises in futility, akin to
squeezing jello. The more you try to get a grasp on the problem, the
more it slips through your fingers.

This kind of war, while frustrating for the American soldiers and
marines who wage it, is exactly the struggle envisioned by the Iraqi
resistance. They know they cannot stand toe-to-toe with the world's most
powerful military and expect to win.

While the US military leadership struggles to get a grip on a situation
in Iraq that deteriorates each and every day, the anti-US occupation
fighters continue to execute a game plan that has been in position since
day one.

President Bush prematurely declared "mission accomplished" back in May
2003. For Americans, this meant that major combat operations in Iraq
had come to an end, that we had won the war. But for the Iraqis, it
meant something else. In Iraq, there never was a ‘Missouri moment',
where the government formally surrendered. The fact is, Saddam Hussein's
government never surrendered, and still is very much in evidence in Iraq
today in the form of the anti-US resistance.

While we in America were declaring victory, the government of Saddam was
planning its war. The first battles were fought in March and April
2003. Token resistance, no decisive engagement. The Iraqis fought just
enough to establish the principle of resistance, but not enough to
squander their resources.

Since May 2003, the resistance has grown in size and sophistication.
Some attribute this to the incompetence of the post-war occupation
policies of the United States. While this certainly was a factor in
facilitating the resistance, the fact remains that what is occurring
today in Iraq is part of a well-conceived plan the goal of which is to
restore the Baath Party back to power. And the policies of the Bush
administration are playing right into their hands.

The terror attacks carried out against the United Nations and other
international aid organizations succeeded in driving out of Iraq the
vestiges of foreign involvement the Bush administration relied upon to
present an international face to the US-led occupation. In the chaos and
anarchy that followed, the United States was compelled to use more and
more force in an attempt to restore order, creating a Catch-22 situation
where the more force we used, the more resistance we generated,
requiring more force in response.

The cycle of violence fed the resistance, destabilizing huge areas of
Iraq that are still outside the control of the Iraqi government and US
military. High profile operations in Najaf, Sadr City and Sammara did
little to bring these cities to bear.

Today, fighters in Iraq operate freely, continuing their orgy of death
and destruction in order to attract the inevitable heavy-handed US
response. Falluja is a prime case in point. While the US is unlikely to
deliver a fatal blow to the Iraqi resistance, it is succeeding in
levelling huge areas of Falluja, recalling the Vietnam-era lament that
we had to destroy the village in order to save it.

The images from Falluja will only fuel the anti-American sentiment in
Iraq, enabling the anti-US fighters to recruit ten new fighters for
every newly-minted 'martyr' it loses in the current battle against the
Americans.

The battle for Falluja is supposed to be the proving ground of the new
Iraq Army. Instead, it may well prove to be a fatal pill. The reality is
there is no Iraqi Army. Of the tens of thousands recruited into its
ranks, there is today only one effective unit, the 36th Battalion.

This unit has fought side by side with the Americans in Falluja, Najaf,
and Samara. By all accounts, it has performed well. But this unit can
only prevail when it operates alongside overwhelming American military
support. Left to fend for itself, it would be slaughtered by the
resistance fighters. Worse, this unit which stands as a symbol of the
ideal for the new Iraqi Army is actually the antithesis of what the new
Iraqi Army should be.

While the Bush administration has suppressed the formation of militia
units organized along ethnic and religious lines, the 36th Battalion
should be recognized for what it really is – a Kurdish militia,
retained by the US military because the rest of the Iraqi Army is
unwilling or unable to carry the fight to the Iraqi resistance fighters.

The battle for Falluja has exposed not only the fallacy of the US
military strategy towards confronting the resistance in Iraq, but also
the emptiness of the interim government of Iyad Allawi, which is so far
incapable of building anything that resembles a viable Iraqi military
capable of securing its position in Iraq void of American military support.

Falluja is probably the beginning of a very long and bloody phase of the
Iraq war, one that pits an American military under orders from a
rejuvenated Bush administration to achieve victory at any cost against
an Iraqi resistance that is willing to allow Iraq to sink into a
quagmire of death and destruction in order to bog down and eventually
expel the American occupier.

It is a war the United States cannot win, and which the government of
Iyad Allawi cannot survive. Unfortunately, since recent polls show that
some 70% of the American people support the war in Iraq, it is a war
that will rage until the American domestic political dynamic changes,
and the tide of public opinion turns against the war.

Tragically, this means many more years of conflict in Iraq that will
result in thousands more killed on both sides, and incomprehensible
suffering for the people of Iraq, and unpredictable instability for the
entire Middle East.
 
Ronald Reagan rather than Kennedy.

I just remember: Kennedy didn't blink when facing the Cuban [Missile]
crisis
either - respect for that!
I wonder just how load the screaming and moaning would have been if
that
same situation had happened today, with Kennedy at the wheel.
Frithiof Andreas Jensen
Kennedy would have had the proof in hand--and showed it to us.
http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:JOqIEBwDvk8J:www.prospect.org/print-friendly/webfeatures/2003/10/brzezinski-z-10-31.html+Dean-Acheson+De-Gaulle+word-of-the-president+credibility+Lenin
 
:::Do you know the difference between a battle and a war?
:::Dirk Bruere
:::

I do.
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:LZRfLYD-gR8J:www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html+The-Congress-shall-have-Power+To-declare-war


http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/j/jo/joint_resolution_to_authorize_the_use_of_united_states_a.html
John Fields

I'm afraid that is *not* a declaration of war.
Dirk Bruere

Oh, well, nobody's perfect
John Fields
If Dubya was brought before a tribunal (an idea he likes)
in an international forum (an idea he dislikes)
it seems likely that he would be found guilty of war crimes
(along with his chain of command).

I see little difference in "Bush's" invasion of Iraq
and the Japanese facists action at Pearl Harbor.
 
Paul Burridge <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote in message news:<5gf9p09ccb9t4dpebb8n282902i37324b9@4ax.com>...
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:06:22 GMT, Rich The Philosophizer
null@example.net> wrote:

Do you guys only have ten months in your year?

Slowman lives in the Euro-zone. It's probably an EU Directive.
No. It was a typo ...

-------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
 
John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message news:<0a97p0lcfahof4p79bjls30923618h2jlt@4ax.com>...
On 11 Nov 2004 02:54:16 -0800, bill.sloman@ieee.org (Bill Sloman)
wrote:

John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message news:<3lq4p0pseiq6l90kovpph3ne5bvq2vi8ji@4ax.com>...


What drives them is the love they have for their leaders, but what
drives their leaders is just plain old greed and lust for power and
hatred for anyone who opposes their getting what they want.

We are talking about your relationship with Dubbya here, aren't we

---
Hardly, and you're either getting senile in your old age or just being
disingenuous. I'll vote for disingenuous, since you must remember
that in the very recent past we voted for the lesser of two weevils
and there was very little love lost in the process, very little being
there to start with.
---

Kind of like liberals; spoiled children run amuck. What they really want > >> is the utter destruction of everything that doesn't fit into their narrow
viewpoint of who's OK in their book,

Dubbya, as his father's son, really wanted to stick it to Saddam
Hussein, and has exploited his high position to waste a large number
of American lives (and a much larger number of Iraki lives) and a
great deal of money to satisfy this childish ambition.

---
So say you, but what you tout as truth is just another opinion, which
with a dollar or so will get you a cup of coffee somewhere.
---
I'm not touting it as truth, but it is rather less incredible than
your rubbish about liberal motivations.

It hasn't done
a thing to improve U.S. security

---
I disagree. It's now, AIUI, _much_ harder to get into this country for
the purpose of doing mischief than it used to be, and visitors are
subject to greater scrutiny while they're here. In addition, things
which once weren't being watched very closely, like our borders and
our airports, are now also under greater scrutiny.
---
It is certainly much harder to get into the US than it used to be.
Whether the new, even higher levels of bureaucratic obstruction, stop
any more of the people who are planning mischief is quite another
question. You've stepped up from Regan's utterly cheap-skate and
sloppy privatised security to a slightly higher level, but the fact
that you are wasting so much time and energy making life difficult for
blameless academics (amongst others) suggests that you haven't exactly
got your eye on the ball, even now.

And what has surliness in the immigration department got to do with
invading Irak?

in fact, by encouraging disgruntled
Arabs to sign on with Al Qaeda, it has probably increased the risk of
second 11/9.

---
If we'd merely absorbed the first one do you think that would have
decreased the risk of a second one?

Surely you can't be idiotic enough to believe that appeasement works.
Even though we've been subjected to ever-increasing violence from the
"disgruntled" and taken the bombing of a marine barracks in stride,
and the bombing of a couple of embassies, and an attempt to blow up a
ship, and the WTC the first time, and the list goes on, we can't, and
won't, take it forever.
I'm sure it doesn't, but invading Irak neutralised a non-threat, and -
as it turned out - encouraged lots of Arabs to join Al Qaeda, which
could be a real threat.

Regardless of what you and the rest of our detractors think, we're not
an infinite sink and the only reason we let that crap go on for so
long is because we _always_ try for a diplomatic solution to
difficulties. But there are limits, and once the line is drawn in the
sand, as far as I'm concerned, that's it.
---
Idiotic posturing. Your Dubbya drew his line in the wrong bit of sand
....

and that's you, Frank, and it's
me, and it's everyone else who has what they resent, a life.
Basically, they have nothing except their pitiful lives, so what can
be taken away from them to make them stop? You figure it out.
---

In Dubbya's case, the high office. You just blew it.

---
I blew nothing. What you're saying is that if W was out of there
they would magically stop fighting, and if you mean it you're a bigger
idiot than you appear to be. Do you think Kerry could have wound the
war down?
He could have elected to prosecute it properly, so that Irak becomes
secure enough for there to be some effective reconstruction, or to cut
your losses and got out, which would at least leave the Arabs to sort
out their own problems.

Hardly. That namby-pamby loser riddled with guilt from his
escapades in Viet Nam would only make it seem like we had lost our
resolve and put us all in a more precarious position by giving the
enemy hope.
---
As opposed to the present situation, where concentrating on putting
out the fire in Fallujah has let it flare up everywhere else.

The US is driving them up the wall. The US only increases
terrorism and extremist muslim behaviour.

---
No, it's always been there, like a nasty boil that's been festering
for years, waiting to come to the surface. All we're doing is
bringing it to a head so we can get rid of it.
---

That's your theory. To the rest of us it is just a routine case of
fools rushing in where angels fear to tread.

---
"The rest of us?" LOL! You certainly seem to have an overinflated
sense of self-importance, unilaterally declaring yourself to be the
spokesman for millions and millions who, as a matter of fact, disagree
with your stance. Or, perhaps more properly phrased, "your repose".
---
So what did you make of the international response to the original US
proposal to invade Irak, as put to the UN? You got told that you'd
better think it out again - which looks like good advice, in
retrospect.

---
What's happened is that the virus is now wise to the fact that it's
been found out and it's trying to kill its host before we can figure
out how to get rid of it.
---

Neglecting the fact that the "virus" in Irak was only killing Irakís,

---
"only killing Irakís"? Interesting choice of words...
---

and nowhere near as many of them as you have done for, and your
pointless invasion has now dispersed it around the world where it
threatens to become an epidemic which you don't seem to have clue how
to control - talk about opening Pandora's box ....

---
The box was already opened, then closed for a long time. What we've
done is open it for the second time.
---

"Sorry, Uncle Sam, we can't help you right now but call us when the
bread is baked and we'll help you to eat it"...

Theo van Gogh got to eat some of the bread you baked, as did a bunch
of Spanish commuters earlier this year, and some Australian tourists
on Bali in 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_terrorist_bombing).

---
So, everybody in the world should kow-tow to al-Qaeda's demands for
the destruction of the US in order to gain themselves a little
temporary safety? Until al-Qaeda later decrees that some other
infidel country is on their hit list? And then...???
---
And how did invading Irak do anything against al-Qaeda? The invasion -
as I've already said - did nothing to harm al-Qaeda - and the Arab
reaction to the invasion seems to have done lots to help al-Qaeda.

We'd much prefer not to be sharing the results of your rash adventure.

---
You don't want to share the risk, but you won't mind sharing the the
reward, huh?
What reward?

-------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
 
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 02:15:35 -0800, Bill Sloman wrote:
John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message news:<0a97p0lcfahof4p79bjls30923618h2jlt@4ax.com>...
....
So, everybody in the world should kow-tow to al-Qaeda's demands for
the destruction of the US in order to gain themselves a little
temporary safety? Until al-Qaeda later decrees that some other
infidel country is on their hit list? And then...???
---

And how did invading Irak do anything against al-Qaeda? The invasion -
as I've already said - did nothing to harm al-Qaeda - and the Arab
reaction to the invasion seems to have done lots to help al-Qaeda.

We'd much prefer not to be sharing the results of your rash adventure.

---
You don't want to share the risk, but you won't mind sharing the the
reward, huh?

What reward?
I think the problem with Fields and the other neocon dupes is
that their brains are actually hard-wired to be polarized so
intensely that they're literally incapable of grasping any
scenario other than their programming.

Of course, I claim that your neural net _can_ be reprogrammed,
and stand as one example that I know of of exactly that taking
place.

The thing is, the brain's neural net is "hard-wired" only to
the extent that the wiring is dendrites, axons, and synapses.
And it has been shown in the laboratory that, even though
you can't grow any new neurons, they _do_ make new synapses.
And I haven't read any studies that say anything about deactivating
or losing _existing_ synapses but it certainly seems logical that
if neurons can make new synapses, they _should_ have the ability
to at least change the firing potentials of existing synapses.

My theory, of course, is that the flow of enzymes or hormones
or whatever caused by emotionsl movement can stimulate, or
maybe just catalyze, this synapse growth. I.e., emotional
release dramatically empowers the learning process.

Think back. Most of your most prominent memories involve some
event with some (or maybe a lot of) emotional content, am I
right?

How would we design an experiment?

Thanks,
Rich
 
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:45:50 -0800, Bill Sloman wrote:

Paul Burridge <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote in message news:<5gf9p09ccb9t4dpebb8n282902i37324b9@4ax.com>...
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:06:22 GMT, Rich The Philosophizer
null@example.net> wrote:

Do you guys only have ten months in your year?

Slowman lives in the Euro-zone. It's probably an EU Directive.

No. It was a typo ...
I thought maybe you'd gone metric....

;^j
 
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:16:19 -0600, John Fields wrote:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:03:05 GMT, Rich The Philosophizer
null@example.net> wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:59:44 -0600, John Fields wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:57:40 +0100, "Frank Bemelman"
f.bemelmanx@xs4all.invalid.nl> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> schreef in
bericht news:mdh4p0hbs7ftl783e5vcaqt36ser6lloco@4ax.com...

After they clean out Fallujah, maybe some of them can help out in The
Hague.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3998347.stm

It's all quiet now. No help needed. No doubt we are going to
see more of these events, all being the result of that
brilliant stategy towards terrorism, led by Bush.

---
As opposed to the Bemelman strategy, which is "Teach 'em to play nice
by appeasing 'em."?

I guess the idea of "don't go on a killing rampage in these folks'
home town" has never occurred to anybody.

---
I guess the idea of keeping it from happening in yours has never
occurred to you.
Well, you guess wrong, you numbskull. I keep it from happening in my
home town by refraining from initiating killing rampages half-way
around the world. Or next door, for that matter.

You evidently haven't noticed, but amongst sane people, it is fairly
well-known that when you attack someone, they have a tendency to want
to defend themselves.

In your fantasy world, they're supposed to roll over and beg for
more torture, while gushing their gratitude for your infinite
magnanimity in prolonging their agony, rather than going directly
to the death blow. And you can't understand why the benighted savages
don't gush with overwhelming gratitude for the huge sacrifice you're
making, deigning to Send The Marines to Make Them Safe For Democracy.

They're _supposed_ to love you for _correcting_ them, right?
---

Fields, you're a tool.

---
We all are.
Which "all" is that? Whose turd are you?

Thanks again,
Rich
 
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:27:52 +0000, Fred Bloggs wrote:
JeffM wrote:
Granted: Saddam was a POS who did despicable things
to people inside the borders of his nation.
I don't think you're one of those who will hold this out
as a reason to invade a sovereign nation, but in case anyone else does:
Who's next? North Korea? Sudan? Saudi Arabia? Red China?

I wandered a little OT, but, having vented, I feel better now.

In about 6 months- the expenditure will be 1/4 T(rillion)$- and what do
the idiots have to show for it?- the morons will probably get this up to
3/4 T$ or more before they realize they have been duped by an
incompetent who should be impeached- but you never can tell.
Well, the most recent "information" I've heard about Fallujah was that
there was surprisingly little resistance encountered, and they're about
to declare it "secure."

What would it happen if the "terrorists" just laid low for a few
months, acting like it's normal friendly occupation forces, serving
drinks in the off-base clubs and all that "entertain the GIs" crap,
and when it's loaded with GIs, and it's so secure that troops are
going there for R&R from Afghanistan and Pakistan, and when it gets
loaded to capacity, blow up the whole town?

Just a thought.

;^j
Rich
 
Tom Seim wrote:
I am employeed by a nationally recognized Laboratory in a senior
leadership position - who are you???
Senior leadership position? That's just a title-YOU ARE CRIMINALLY
PARASITIC GARBAGE WHO SHOULD BE FIRED OFF THE PUBLIC PAYROLL! TAKE YOUR
FUCKING TITLE AND POSITION AND SHOVE IT UP YOUR FUCKING ASS!
Nationally recognized "laboratory"- you really mean "wasteland sewer"-
YOU FOOL NO ONE- YOU DAMNED PARASITIC TRASH PRODUCE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
YOU ARE WORSE THAN WELFARE CHEATS! - A BUNCH OF OVER PAID, POMPOUS, AND
INCOMPETENT SCUM WHO SHOULD BE CUT LOOSE!
YOU ARE EXACTLY THE KIND OF SCUM BUSH SHOULD FIRE- HE SHOULD SHUT THAT
SO-CALLED "nationally recognized Laboratory" down!
So the deal is you can GFOAD, Mr. Senior Leadership Position Place Taker.
 
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 09:29:27 GMT, Rich The Philosophizer
<null@example.net> wrote:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 00:15:12 +0000, Paul Burridge wrote:

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:25:28 GMT, Rich The Philosophizer
null@example.net> wrote:

My theory, of course, is that the flow of enzymes or hormones
or whatever caused by emotionsl movement can stimulate, or
maybe just catalyze, this synapse growth. I.e., emotional
release dramatically empowers the learning process.

Ah, but did you formulate your theory after smoking a doobie or two?
That might invalidate it. ;-}

In your mind, of course it does. Marijuana or other drugs couldn't
_possibly_ have _any_ beneficial effects _at_all,_whatsoever_, because
Big Brother says so.

Thanks for so clearly delineating the limits of your powers of
reason and/or discernment for us.
---
Well, in his defense, he did say "might"...

You do make an interesting point though, in that permanent changes to
an individual's state of being can and do come about after bouts with
enlightenment, whether that epiphany comes about as a result of
intentionally using psychoactive substances or not.

From your point of view it seems to me that what you're saying is that
the elation which results from finding (or being given) a piece of a
puzzle, the long-sought solution of which has been elusive, can/will
cause the expansion of the network housing the puzzle. I don't
disgree with you, and it seems to me that the elation may be due to
the tying up of some loose ends, the tying up of those loose ends
adding to the store of knowledge of the network, thereby allowing it
to expand and learn more from what it learned previously. Ideally, a
never-ending cycle of learning and searching for knowledge.

So, since we're all different even though we're all the same, the
means of acquiring the pieces of the puzzle are manifold, all valid,
and should left for the searcher to seek out and try.

--
John Fields
 
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 10:54:12 -0600, John Fields wrote:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 09:29:27 GMT, Rich The Philosophizer
null@example.net> wrote:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 00:15:12 +0000, Paul Burridge wrote:

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:25:28 GMT, Rich The Philosophizer
null@example.net> wrote:

My theory, of course, is that the flow of enzymes or hormones
or whatever caused by emotionsl movement can stimulate, or
maybe just catalyze, this synapse growth. I.e., emotional
release dramatically empowers the learning process.

Ah, but did you formulate your theory after smoking a doobie or two?
That might invalidate it. ;-}

In your mind, of course it does. Marijuana or other drugs couldn't
_possibly_ have _any_ beneficial effects _at_all,_whatsoever_, because
Big Brother says so.

Thanks for so clearly delineating the limits of your powers of
reason and/or discernment for us.

---
Well, in his defense, he did say "might"...

You do make an interesting point though, in that permanent changes to
an individual's state of being can and do come about after bouts with
enlightenment, whether that epiphany comes about as a result of
intentionally using psychoactive substances or not.

From your point of view it seems to me that what you're saying is that
the elation which results from finding (or being given) a piece of a
puzzle, the long-sought solution of which has been elusive, can/will
cause the expansion of the network housing the puzzle. I don't
disgree with you, and it seems to me that the elation may be due to
the tying up of some loose ends, the tying up of those loose ends
adding to the store of knowledge of the network, thereby allowing it
to expand and learn more from what it learned previously. Ideally, a
never-ending cycle of learning and searching for knowledge.

So, since we're all different even though we're all the same, the
means of acquiring the pieces of the puzzle are manifold, all valid,
and should left for the searcher to seek out and try.
Well, I can't argue with that.

Unless I want to. ;-)

;^j
Rich
 
Tom Seim wrote:

Temper, temper; sounds like you're unemployed. At least that way
you're not contributing to my salary.
Yep- just one defamatory remark after another from your sorry ass. The
reason why people like you are so cynical is that you're a total fraud-
you see nothing in others except vacuous character and fraud because
that's exactly what you are. You are part of a 60 year old corporate
culture of enormously useless bureaucratic dead wood overhead only the
government can afford.
 
Rich The Philosophizer wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:46:00 +0000, Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:


John Larkin wrote:


On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:59:17 +0000, Paul Burridge
pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote:



On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:47:34 -0800, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highlandSNIPtechTHISnologyPLEASE.com> wrote:



After they clean out Fallujah, maybe some of them can help out in The
Hague.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3998347.stm

"We are living in an increasingly explosive world"

- Me (two minutes ago):)


In the big picture, probably not. Megadeath wars are actually fading
away.


After WWI, we figured wars were over, so we disarmed.

After WWII, we wanted to disarm, but the Russkies stopped us.

After the Cold War, we started to disarm, but the Muslims stopped us.

Bollocks.


If the Muslim world ever settles down to something like democracy and
peace, what's next?

Already lined up to be provoked in case the Moslems don't live up to their
neocon reputation - China.


Palestine.
I bet Bush and Sharon are praying for a Hamas leader to replace Arafat.

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org
 
JeffM wrote:

:::Do you know the difference between a battle and a war?
:::Dirk Bruere
:::

I do.
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:LZRfLYD-gR8J:www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html+The-Congress-shall-have-Power+To-declare-war
Yes. I also know that one can win all the battles and still lose the war.
The US is an expert in this.

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org
 
Frithiof Andreas Jensen wrote:

"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:2vfin3F2jv9pcU2@uni-berlin.de...


Whereas if it had happened in Europe it would not have made the news at

all,

except maybe at the tail end as a laugh.


Ahhh - how very Progressive of us!

... Except for the fact that Europe is the behaving in *exactly* the same
way on *different* bones of contention; Like the EU commisioner, who forgot
to wear the proper mask and to speak the same opinion as "everybody else"
.... being (openly) against Gay Marriage is Evil Prejudice if one is a white
Catholic; If a Muslim had said the exact same it would be "their culture"
which is then understood to be a Good Thing ;-7 (No wonder the Islamists get
confused - we "normal people" do too).
That had a lot more to do with the EU Parliament v the Commission.
The subject was merely opportune.

Then there is the question of letting Turkey into Europe where the real
opinion expressed in private, behind sealed doors is "No fucking way are we
having the Turks leech our social security to death"* - yet In Public it's
all grace and tolerance!
Nobody want Turkey in (except the US).

It's called "The Firehouse Effect" - because it was first observed amongst
firefighters: A close-knitted group of people moving in their own
environment evolve peculiar ideas that are only shared amongst themselves -
like the European "elite" today!

Anyone, who eats in a factory cafeteria og go to a Bodega and listens to the
talk might easily get the idea that herr Schickelgruber never really left
the building. But all the silly politicians see are the calm waters, because
they never go such places, instead they talk to the people in the VIP
lounges in the Airport, which are all affluent, educated people like
themselves with the same opinions!

I predict that there will be a very rude awakening for the "European Elite"
within this decade - as there was in the US.
That was what the real argument was about.
The EU Parliament should be the one with the power, not the unelected Commission.

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org
 
Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<4197F2C4.1020300@nospam.com>...
Tom Seim wrote:

Temper, temper; sounds like you're unemployed. At least that way
you're not contributing to my salary.

Yep- just one defamatory remark after another from your sorry ass. The
reason why people like you are so cynical is that you're a total fraud-
you see nothing in others except vacuous character and fraud because
that's exactly what you are. You are part of a 60 year old corporate
culture of enormously useless bureaucratic dead wood overhead only the
government can afford.
Oh please! You sound like the school yard bully that's been just
kicked in the shins. Your foul, vile garbage would make Jeffrey
Dahlmer wince.

And since when is telling the truth defamatory?
 
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:24:04 -0600, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

we went from a total deficit of 510 billion in the first quarter of
last year to a total deficit of 379 billion in the first quarter of
this year, all the while paying for a war and paying more for crude
and, I believe, putting some money into Iraq for reconstruction, so
I'd say that things are looking up. For us, anyway. Of course
devaluing the dollar will help a little, and I heard yesterday that
Hewlett Packard is selling [their] HDTV sets, which means out private
money is gonna go head-to-head with Japan, Inc. for some of that
market share. Finally, it seems we're getting some balls again
instead of politely sitting around listening to you lot trying to
convince us how much fun it is to be emasculated.
Great news, John! Bush said today that he's gong to expend the entire
capital of the United States on re-establishing Palestine. See - he
ain't *that* bad after all! (please tell Jim) :-}
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.
 
Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<419B4A3D.7050509@nospam.com>...
Tom Seim wrote:
Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<4199E9AE.2070204@nospam.com>...

Tom Seim wrote:

Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<4197F2C4.1020300@nospam.com>...


Tom Seim wrote:



Temper, temper; sounds like you're unemployed. At least that way
you're not contributing to my salary.

Yep- just one defamatory remark after another from your sorry ass. The
reason why people like you are so cynical is that you're a total fraud-
you see nothing in others except vacuous character and fraud because
that's exactly what you are. You are part of a 60 year old corporate
culture of enormously useless bureaucratic dead wood overhead only the
government can afford.


Oh please! You sound like the school yard bully that's been just
kicked in the shins. Your foul, vile garbage would make Jeffrey
Dahlmer wince.

And since when is telling the truth defamatory?

You're a waste of time- and you are not employed- for good reason too-


You contradict yourself (again).

You're a total waste of time.



look at your posts, you're worthless, good for nothing, ignorant, second
rate shit with delusions of functionality. Better stick with living in
Nowhere, USA on Nobody Street. You don't like the language? then go fuck
yourself...yawn...


You can use whatever language you please; at the risk of exposing
exactly what type of person-to use the term VERY generously-that you
are.

You're a total waste of time- a good for nothing loiterer on the public
dole.
Then why are you wasting your time? My guess: you're addicted to this
game and can't resist.
 
John Fields wrote:
On 12 Nov 2004 17:15:56 -0800, jeffm_@email.com (JeffM) wrote:



If Dubya was brought before a tribunal (an idea he likes)
in an international forum (an idea he dislikes)
it seems likely that he would be found guilty of war crimes
(along with his chain of command).


---
In today's climate, putting him before an international forum would be
tantamount to trial by fixed jury.

You may notice that slightly over half of the population of the US
voluntarily voted him back in, so I suppose y'all better start
building a BIG jail should he be found guilty.
It has been demonstrated time and time again that 75% of that "over
half" are ignorant uneducated garbage who didn't know their ass from a
hole in the ground on 90% of the major campaign issues. It is a measure
of the effectiveness of the Rove $260M campaign machine. Therefore it is
not accurate to say anyone put Bush "back in"- as this would imply a
degree of cognizance that just wasn't there. Democracy is finished in
America- the more educated members of the electorate will no longer
tolerate the moron majority at the bottom.
 

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