OT - reverse telephone directory wanted

[KLR]

Anyone know where you can get a reverse telephone directory for
australia - preferably online ?

(IE: where you enter a number and get the name of the caller ?)


Google seems to bring up US only services unfortunately.

 

[Phil Allison]

"KLR" <kreed@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:0b48kv04ubmt5ng8j74m0mhkbendk4hcu4@4ax.com...

Anyone know where you can get a reverse telephone directory for
australia - preferably online ?

(IE: where you enter a number and get the name of the caller ?)

** Ring the number ansd see who answers.



............... Phil

 

[budgie]

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:26:49 GMT, KLR <kreed@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

Anyone know where you can get a reverse telephone directory for
australia - preferably online ?

(IE: where you enter a number and get the name of the caller ?)


Google seems to bring up US only services unfortunately.

Doubt if you will find an oz online one.

Is this for an ongoing biz need or an occasional shot? I can do the
odd one for you ex my April 03 db. Email if needed.

 

[John Harvey]

KLR wrote:

Anyone know where you can get a reverse telephone directory for
australia - preferably online ?

I've got Australian Phonedisc, but I had to buy it. Gateway computers
used to come with a freebee but they're long gone.

--
John H

This address will reach me if you apply ROT13 wbuauneirl@ovtcbaq.pbz

 

[Rod Speed]

KLR <kreed@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:0b48kv04ubmt5ng8j74m0mhkbendk4hcu4@4ax.com...

Anyone know where you can get a reverse telephone directory for australia

DTMS still flog theirs on CD.
http://www.dtms.com.au/

- preferably online ?

None that I am aware of.

You're welcome to email me the number and I can
look it up on the DTMS I have. Bit elderly tho, 2000.

(IE: where you enter a number and get the name of the caller ?)

Google seems to bring up US only services unfortunately.

DTMS doesnt actually use the 'reverse' term, thats why it doesnt show up.

 

[Uncle Buck]

http://www.2600.org.au/

Someone on their list server had one once. If your keen, search through the
list messages to find a link..

Andrew.


"KLR" <kreed@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:0b48kv04ubmt5ng8j74m0mhkbendk4hcu4@4ax.com...

Anyone know where you can get a reverse telephone directory for
australia - preferably online ?

(IE: where you enter a number and get the name of the caller ?)


Google seems to bring up US only services unfortunately.

 

[Rod Speed]

Uncle Buck <clem0@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f449af8$0$6527$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

http://www.2600.org.au/

Someone on their list server had one once. If your
keen, search through the list messages to find a link..

That was pulled when Telstra loaded their underwear.

"KLR" <kreed@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:0b48kv04ubmt5ng8j74m0mhkbendk4hcu4@4ax.com...


Anyone know where you can get a reverse telephone directory for
australia - preferably online ?

(IE: where you enter a number and get the name of the caller ?)


Google seems to bring up US only services unfortunately.

 

[Rod Speed]

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message newsOB1b.53559$bo1.15193@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

KLR wrote:


Anyone know where you can get a reverse telephone directory for
australia - preferably online ?

(IE: where you enter a number and get the name of the caller ?)


Google seems to bring up US only services unfortunately.

The telephone number database, or as it is officially termed, Integrated
Public Number Database (IPND) is regulated by ACIF
http://www.acif.org.au/acif/index.cfm and it is only available to
particular organisations such as emergency services, law enforcement
agencies and national security agencies. It is not for general
distribution to members of the public or commercial organisations. I
think this is why you will no longer find any CD's containing such information.

Have fun explaining the DTMS.

You can read the relevant documentation here
http://www.aca.gov.au/telcomm/industry_codes/codes/c555b.pdf

Got sweet fuck all to do with operations outside the telecoms industry.

 

[Ross Herbert]

Rod Speed wrote:

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message newsOB1b.53559$bo1.15193@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
KLR wrote:


Anyone know where you can get a reverse telephone directory for
australia - preferably online ?

(IE: where you enter a number and get the name of the caller ?)


Google seems to bring up US only services unfortunately.

The telephone number database, or as it is officially termed, Integrated
Public Number Database (IPND) is regulated by ACIF
http://www.acif.org.au/acif/index.cfm and it is only available to
particular organisations such as emergency services, law enforcement
agencies and national security agencies. It is not for general
distribution to members of the public or commercial organisations. I
think this is why you will no longer find any CD's containing such information.

Have fun explaining the DTMS.

You can read the relevant documentation here
http://www.aca.gov.au/telcomm/industry_codes/codes/c555b.pdf

Got sweet fuck all to do with operations outside the telecoms industry.


Rod, you are probably right on that point. According to Aust Direct

Marketing Assn the IPND is intended for licensed providers of directory
services. That still means that commercial organisations and the general
public cannot access that database.

Those telephone number CD's which were once produced by private
companies who scanned the white pages have had the kybosh put on them by
Telstra. The white pages data is copyright and Telstra will take court
action against anyone using it to produce a CD or other database by
scanning.

 

[Rod Speed]

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:2HU1b.58821$bo1.2118@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Rod Speed wrote:
"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message newsOB1b.53559$bo1.15193@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
KLR wrote:


Anyone know where you can get a reverse telephone directory for
australia - preferably online ?

(IE: where you enter a number and get the name of the caller ?)


Google seems to bring up US only services unfortunately.

The telephone number database, or as it is officially termed, Integrated
Public Number Database (IPND) is regulated by ACIF
http://www.acif.org.au/acif/index.cfm and it is only available to
particular organisations such as emergency services, law enforcement
agencies and national security agencies. It is not for general
distribution to members of the public or commercial organisations. I
think this is why you will no longer find any CD's containing such information.

Have fun explaining the DTMS.

You can read the relevant documentation here
http://www.aca.gov.au/telcomm/industry_codes/codes/c555b.pdf

Got sweet fuck all to do with operations outside the telecoms industry.


Rod, you are probably right on that point. According to Aust Direct
Marketing Assn the IPND is intended for licensed providers of directory
services. That still means that commercial organisations and the general
public cannot access that database.

Those telephone number CD's which were once
produced by private companies who scanned the white
pages have had the kybosh put on them by Telstra.

Nope, DTMS is still flogging theirs.

The white pages data is copyright and Telstra
will take court action against anyone using it to
produce a CD or other database by scanning.

DTMS is still flogging theirs.

 

[Ross Herbert]

Rod Speed wrote:

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:2HU1b.58821$bo1.2118@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Rod Speed wrote:
"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message newsOB1b.53559$bo1.15193@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
KLR wrote:


Anyone know where you can get a reverse telephone directory for
australia - preferably online ?

(IE: where you enter a number and get the name of the caller ?)


Google seems to bring up US only services unfortunately.

The telephone number database, or as it is officially termed, Integrated
Public Number Database (IPND) is regulated by ACIF
http://www.acif.org.au/acif/index.cfm and it is only available to
particular organisations such as emergency services, law enforcement
agencies and national security agencies. It is not for general
distribution to members of the public or commercial organisations. I
think this is why you will no longer find any CD's containing such information.

Have fun explaining the DTMS.

You can read the relevant documentation here
http://www.aca.gov.au/telcomm/industry_codes/codes/c555b.pdf

Got sweet fuck all to do with operations outside the telecoms industry.


Rod, you are probably right on that point. According to Aust Direct
Marketing Assn the IPND is intended for licensed providers of directory
services. That still means that commercial organisations and the general
public cannot access that database.

Those telephone number CD's which were once
produced by private companies who scanned the white
pages have had the kybosh put on them by Telstra.

Nope, DTMS is still flogging theirs.

The white pages data is copyright and Telstra
will take court action against anyone using it to
produce a CD or other database by scanning.

DTMS is still flogging theirs.

Just had a look at DTMS website and sure enough they are still flogging
their CD. I don't know if they used white pages data to compile their
disc but other direct marketing organisations such as Pacific
Micromarketing say they discontinued using those CD's when Telstra
contested copyright. Maybe DTMS is calling Telstra's bluff...

Ross

 

[John Harvey]

Ross Herbert wrote:

Just had a look at DTMS website and sure enough they are still flogging
their CD. I don't know if they used white pages data to compile their
disc but other direct marketing organisations such as Pacific
Micromarketing say they discontinued using those CD's when Telstra
contested copyright. Maybe DTMS is calling Telstra's bluff...

There was once a legal wrangle between Telstra and DtMS over their
basic directory CD, which was obviously resolved. AFAIK their reverse
search version (PhoneDisc) has never been in contention.

--
John H

This address will reach me if you apply ROT13 wbuauneirl@ovtcbaq.pbz

 

[Ross Herbert]

John Harvey wrote:

Ross Herbert wrote:


Just had a look at DTMS website and sure enough they are still flogging
their CD. I don't know if they used white pages data to compile their
disc but other direct marketing organisations such as Pacific
Micromarketing say they discontinued using those CD's when Telstra
contested copyright. Maybe DTMS is calling Telstra's bluff...

There was once a legal wrangle between Telstra and DtMS over their
basic directory CD, which was obviously resolved. AFAIK their reverse
search version (PhoneDisc) has never been in contention.

--
John H

John,

I just located the details of that case against DtMS and it seems that
the judgement was in favour of Telstra
http://www.piper-alderman.com.au/piperald.nsf/IPTBody/44?OpenDocument
however DtMS have appealed the decision. It may still be that they are
operating in contravention of the judgement and still calling Telstra's
bluff. I may also be that Telstra is simply tolerating the company's
actions and may not take it further.

The main objection I would have against the free availability of the
reverse look-up database is that any nutter or criminal could use it to
find out where I lived without knowing anything more than my phone
number. Of course, if such a person already knew my name he could easily
determine where I live directly from the white pages and a bit of
elimination. In those cases it helps to have a name like Smith....
However, I don't think it should be made easy for them with a reverse
look-up CD.

Ross H

 

[GT]

"budgie" <budgie@nowhere.cantech.net.au> wrote
<snip>

Certainly in my street the percentage of addresses with a listed number
has dropped
by over 10% in the last two years.

And that's got to be good news for Telstra - they charge a monthly
privilege to not have your number listed in their directories!

 

[Ross Herbert]

budgie wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 03:20:48 GMT, Ross Herbert
rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

John Harvey wrote:

Ross Herbert wrote:


Just had a look at DTMS website and sure enough they are still flogging
their CD. I don't know if they used white pages data to compile their
disc but other direct marketing organisations such as Pacific
Micromarketing say they discontinued using those CD's when Telstra
contested copyright. Maybe DTMS is calling Telstra's bluff...

There was once a legal wrangle between Telstra and DtMS over their
basic directory CD, which was obviously resolved. AFAIK their reverse
search version (PhoneDisc) has never been in contention.

--
John H


John,

I just located the details of that case against DtMS and it seems that
the judgement was in favour of Telstra
http://www.piper-alderman.com.au/piperald.nsf/IPTBody/44?OpenDocument
however DtMS have appealed the decision. It may still be that they are
operating in contravention of the judgement and still calling Telstra's
bluff. I may also be that Telstra is simply tolerating the company's
actions and may not take it further.

The main objection I would have against the free availability of the
reverse look-up database is that any nutter or criminal could use it to
find out where I lived without knowing anything more than my phone
number. Of course, if such a person already knew my name he could easily
determine where I live directly from the white pages and a bit of
elimination. In those cases it helps to have a name like Smith....
However, I don't think it should be made easy for them with a reverse
look-up CD.

Ross, DTMS only lists (obviously) WP-listed numbers - and when there
were multiple products offering reverse lookups, there was a
considerable drift towards having numbers delisted. Certainly in my
street the percentage of addresses with a listed number has dropped
by over 10% in the last two years.

That doesn't surprise me too much and it is understandable since
Telstra, in their introduction of CLI (or CND), did not opt for
providing maximum privacy for existing customers. I always considered
that customers should have been given the option of "opting in" for
their number to be sent to the called party instead of the other way
round. As it is now most customers have failed to get Telstra to bar CLI
and every Tom, Dick & Harry with access to a reverse number look-up CD
can easily find out where they live.

While the Aust Direct Mktg Assn rules provide an avenue for persons
objecting to their details appearing on CD databases the person must
request deletion to each and every company which produces such a CD.
Even then I think they only "flag" the objectors name as not wishing to
be contacted by direct marketers but their details are still on the CD
for those with other than honourable intentions to use as they see fit.

The DtMS legal action is currently sitting at 2 wins to Telstra and none
to DtMS with DtMS seeking leave to appeal to the Supreme Court on the
ruling to disallow Telstra's copyright objection. I doubt that the SC
will overule the 2 previous decisions in favour of Telstra and if that
happens then no-one will be allowed to produce a phone number CD using
details scanned from WP. In my opinion that will be good news.

Ross H

 

[Ross Herbert]

John Harvey wrote:

budgie wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 03:20:48 GMT, Ross Herbert
rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

I just located the details of that case against DtMS and it seems that
the judgement was in favour of Telstra
http://www.piper-alderman.com.au/piperald.nsf/IPTBody/44?OpenDocument
however DtMS have appealed the decision. It may still be that they are
operating in contravention of the judgement and still calling Telstra's
bluff. I may also be that Telstra is simply tolerating the company's
actions and may not take it further.

The main objection I would have against the free availability of the
reverse look-up database is that any nutter or criminal could use it to
find out where I lived without knowing anything more than my phone
number. Of course, if such a person already knew my name he could easily
determine where I live directly from the white pages and a bit of
elimination. In those cases it helps to have a name like Smith....
However, I don't think it should be made easy for them with a reverse
look-up CD.

Ross, DTMS only lists (obviously) WP-listed numbers - and when there
were multiple products offering reverse lookups, there was a
considerable drift towards having numbers delisted. Certainly in my
street the percentage of addresses with a listed number has dropped
by over 10% in the last two years.

Given the length of time reverse telephone directories have been
around (at least thirty years to my knowledge), the paranoia
surrounding it must be the more recent phenomenon.

In the days before telephones were universal there were "business
directories" compiled from the electoral roll that contained street
listings as well as an alphabetical listing of names. I've seen quite
a few of these which date back to at least the 1930's.

--
John H

It is true that companies with large client lists have been making up
their own databases to do reverse look-up for many years. Such databases
are quite legal when used for their own internal purposes. It is only
since the direct marketing revolution has hit us that a demand for such
information has resulted in companies actually selling their databases
to those in DM. This resulted in unsolicited invasion of homes by DM's
which resulted in privacy legislation which allowed the public to object
to the collection and distribution of their details. When compnaies such
as DtMS actually scan the Telstra WP to produce their CD's they are
doing so illegally (based on 2 court decisions to this date). Pending
the final Supeme Court appeal by DtMS attempting to overturn the 2
previous decisions in Telstra's favour, Telstra has not yet enforced the
the ruling banning companies from making CD's using WP data.

The "paranoia surrounding reverse look-up" has only been around since
CLI was introduced. Quite simply, because Telstra chose the default
action of every customer number being set for CLI forwarding, anyone
with access to a reverse look-up CD could find out any person's details
very easily and there is absolutely nothing the person could do about
it. In my opinion, when CLI was introduced, every customer should have
been set to "no CLI forwarding" unless they opted in.

Ross H

 

[Rod Speed]

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:4hV1b.58878$bo1.41632@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Rod Speed wrote:

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:2HU1b.58821$bo1.2118@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Rod Speed wrote:
"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message newsOB1b.53559$bo1.15193@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
KLR wrote:


Anyone know where you can get a reverse telephone directory for
australia - preferably online ?

(IE: where you enter a number and get the name of the caller ?)


Google seems to bring up US only services unfortunately.

The telephone number database, or as it is officially termed, Integrated
Public Number Database (IPND) is regulated by ACIF
http://www.acif.org.au/acif/index.cfm and it is only available to
particular organisations such as emergency services, law enforcement
agencies and national security agencies. It is not for general
distribution to members of the public or commercial organisations. I
think this is why you will no longer find any CD's containing such information.

Have fun explaining the DTMS.

You can read the relevant documentation here
http://www.aca.gov.au/telcomm/industry_codes/codes/c555b.pdf

Got sweet fuck all to do with operations outside the telecoms industry.


Rod, you are probably right on that point. According to Aust Direct
Marketing Assn the IPND is intended for licensed providers of directory
services. That still means that commercial organisations and the general
public cannot access that database.

Those telephone number CD's which were once
produced by private companies who scanned the white
pages have had the kybosh put on them by Telstra.

Nope, DTMS is still flogging theirs.

The white pages data is copyright and Telstra
will take court action against anyone using it to
produce a CD or other database by scanning.

DTMS is still flogging theirs.



Just had a look at DTMS website and sure enough they are still flogging
their CD. I don't know if they used white pages data to compile their
disc but other direct marketing organisations such as Pacific
Micromarketing say they discontinued using those CD's when Telstra
contested copyright. Maybe DTMS is calling Telstra's bluff...

Yep, thats precisely what they have been doing for years now.

 

[Rod Speed]

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:kaW1b.58976$bo1.13295@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

John Harvey wrote:

Ross Herbert wrote:


Just had a look at DTMS website and sure enough they are still flogging
their CD. I don't know if they used white pages data to compile their
disc but other direct marketing organisations such as Pacific
Micromarketing say they discontinued using those CD's when Telstra
contested copyright. Maybe DTMS is calling Telstra's bluff...

There was once a legal wrangle between Telstra and DtMS over their
basic directory CD, which was obviously resolved. AFAIK their reverse
search version (PhoneDisc) has never been in contention.

--
John H


John,

I just located the details of that case against DtMS and it seems that
the judgement was in favour of Telstra
http://www.piper-alderman.com.au/piperald.nsf/IPTBody/44?OpenDocument
however DtMS have appealed the decision. It may still be that they are
operating in contravention of the judgement and still calling Telstra's
bluff. I may also be that Telstra is simply tolerating the company's
actions and may not take it further.

The main objection I would have against the free
availability of the reverse look-up database is that any
nutter or criminal could use it to find out where I lived
without knowing anything more than my phone number.

You're always welcome to have an unlisted number if you're that paranoid.

Of course, if such a person already knew my name
he could easily determine where I live directly from
the white pages and a bit of elimination.

Yep, particularly with those with more unusual names.

In those cases it helps to have a name like Smith....

Thats got other problems....

However, I don't think it should be made
easy for them with a reverse look-up CD.

Your problem.

You can in fact lookup by street address with the DTMS CDs.

Now you can crawl under the bed and hide from the burglars |-)

 

[Rod Speed]

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:sW_1b.59344$bo1.5335@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

John Harvey wrote:

budgie wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 03:20:48 GMT, Ross Herbert
rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

I just located the details of that case against DtMS and it seems that
the judgement was in favour of Telstra
http://www.piper-alderman.com.au/piperald.nsf/IPTBody/44?OpenDocument
however DtMS have appealed the decision. It may still be that they are
operating in contravention of the judgement and still calling Telstra's
bluff. I may also be that Telstra is simply tolerating the company's
actions and may not take it further.

The main objection I would have against the free availability of the
reverse look-up database is that any nutter or criminal could use it to
find out where I lived without knowing anything more than my phone
number. Of course, if such a person already knew my name he could easily
determine where I live directly from the white pages and a bit of
elimination. In those cases it helps to have a name like Smith....
However, I don't think it should be made easy for them with a reverse
look-up CD.

Ross, DTMS only lists (obviously) WP-listed numbers - and when there
were multiple products offering reverse lookups, there was a
considerable drift towards having numbers delisted. Certainly in my
street the percentage of addresses with a listed number has dropped
by over 10% in the last two years.

Given the length of time reverse telephone directories have been
around (at least thirty years to my knowledge), the paranoia
surrounding it must be the more recent phenomenon.

In the days before telephones were universal there were "business
directories" compiled from the electoral roll that contained street
listings as well as an alphabetical listing of names. I've seen quite
a few of these which date back to at least the 1930's.

--
John H

It is true that companies with large client lists have been making up
their own databases to do reverse look-up for many years. Such databases
are quite legal when used for their own internal purposes. It is only
since the direct marketing revolution has hit us that a demand for such
information has resulted in companies actually selling their databases
to those in DM. This resulted in unsolicited invasion of homes by DM's
which resulted in privacy legislation which allowed the public to object
to the collection and distribution of their details. When compnaies such
as DtMS actually scan the Telstra WP to produce their CD's they are
doing so illegally (based on 2 court decisions to this date). Pending
the final Supeme Court appeal by DtMS attempting to overturn the 2
previous decisions in Telstra's favour, Telstra has not yet enforced the
the ruling banning companies from making CD's using WP data.

The "paranoia surrounding reverse look-up" has only been around since
CLI was introduced. Quite simply, because Telstra chose the default
action of every customer number being set for CLI forwarding, anyone
with access to a reverse look-up CD could find out any person's details
very easily and there is absolutely nothing the person could do about it.

Wrong. They're welcome to suppress their Caller ID.

In my opinion, when CLI was introduced, every customer
should have been set to "no CLI forwarding" unless they opted in.

Completely impractical. Hardly anyone would opt in.

 

[Ross Herbert]

Rod Speed wrote:

"Ross Herbert" <rherber1@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:_z_1b.59312$bo1.28366@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

That doesn't surprise me too much and it is understandable since
Telstra, in their introduction of CLI (or CND), did not opt for
providing maximum privacy for existing customers. I always considered
that customers should have been given the option of "opting in" for
their number to be sent to the called party instead of the other way
round. As it is now most customers have failed to get Telstra to bar CLI
and every Tom, Dick & Harry with access to a reverse number look-up CD
can easily find out where they live.

While the Aust Direct Mktg Assn rules provide an avenue for persons
objecting to their details appearing on CD databases the person must
request deletion to each and every company which produces such a CD.
Even then I think they only "flag" the objectors name as not wishing to
be contacted by direct marketers but their details are still on the CD
for those with other than honourable intentions to use as they see fit.

The DtMS legal action is currently sitting at 2 wins to Telstra and none
to DtMS with DtMS seeking leave to appeal to the Supreme Court on the
ruling to disallow Telstra's copyright objection. I doubt that the SC
will overule the 2 previous decisions in favour of Telstra and if that
happens then no-one will be allowed to produce a phone number CD using
details scanned from WP.

Completely trivial to do it outside the country.

If the Supreme Court upholds Telstra's case for copyright then this
applies everywhere as I understand it.

In my opinion that will be good news.

Mindlessly silly. Its handy to be able to check who called you.

That is certainly one argument in favour and I agree that it is useful.
However, when Telstra's exchanges started to become CLI capable from
around 1979 (with the introduction of ARE11) right up until the early
90's, CLI was restricted to in-house use and emergency services. Telstra
in those days apparently considered that passing the calling party's
number to the called party was an invasion of their privacy and the
possibility it could be used for illegal purposes. Even now it is
illegal for an unauthorised Telstra employee (or anyone else) to obtain
address details for a customer by providing Directory Assistance with
their telephone number. There is little difference in using a reverse
look-up CD to do exactly the same by anyone having access to a computer.

If I can propose a hypothetical for your consideration....

Assuming that somebody was able to make up a reverse look-up CD of
vehicle registration numbers would you think that it was appropriate for
the CD to be sold to the public? How do you think the police/legal
fraternity or government would view such a practice? And finally, what
would be the difference (in practical effect) between using a reverse
look-up telephone number CD and the hypothetical vehicle registration
number CD?

Ross H