OT: reaction to Iraqi elections

[Paul Burke]

John Woodgate wrote:

All it needs is time. Lots and lots of time. In UK, we have five (yes)
sorts of Celts, Angles, Jutes, Saxons, Danes, Normans, Romanies, Jews

And Romans (which meant anyone from anywhere in the Med basin). And
(assuming they married locally and left descendants) Tigris boatmen at
Wallsend...
Oh, and Picts, though you might have included them in your Celts.

Paul Burke

 

[Reg Edwards]

What's the difference between innocent and guilty bystanders?

 

[Fred Bloggs]

Reg Edwards wrote:

What's the difference between innocent and guilty bystanders?

If the "other" side kills them, they are innocent; if your side kills
them they are guilty.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 13:09:40 GMT, richard mullens
<mullensdeletethis@ntlworld.com> wrote:

There again, you are wearing rose coloured spectacles. Who knows what the intent is. I don't believe that either side wants to
terrorise the civilian population. And who says that someone is a "bad guy".

I see. The girls on the school busses are "bad guys" because they're
Jews. That makes the school busses sort of wheeled ovens. I get your
point.

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 08:46:47 +0000, Paul Burke <paul@scazon.com>
wrote:

Pre- Communist Russia was the main home anti-Semitic activity between
about 1800 and 1930. Though discrimination was common, it was nasty
rather than violent.

Post-Communist Russia, too. Yes, it was more a glass ceiling thing,
since the Jews were the people who got most of the work done.

And there was that little unpleasantness in Spain.

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 09:19:54 +0000, Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Americans might be astonished at the general good will between most of those
ethnic groups too.

Why would Americans be astonished? The Brits are well known for having
a peaceful society, except for the Northern Ireland thing. And America
is about 98% immigrants, so we understand about that.

I live in a city that has no racial majority.

John

 

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax]

John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 09:19:54 +0000, Pooh Bear
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:



Americans might be astonished at the general good will between most of those
ethnic groups too.


Why would Americans be astonished? The Brits are well known for having
a peaceful society, except for the Northern Ireland thing. And America

Britain is not a peaceful society. It is just that our violence is sublethal
most of the time.

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 13:55:04 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
<g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:

What's the difference between innocent and guilty bystanders?

It's a matter of optimization. Women and children waiting outside a
synagogue (or, this morning, outside a mosque) blown up by a car bomb
are clearly innocents; their death was entirely unnecessary. Someone
killed because a bomb missed a military target are terrible bit not
intended.

The point is whether every effort was made to spare them, or whether
their death was deliberate. It *is* important because one policy
minimizes death, the other maximizes it.

Granted, after the fact, dead is dead, but we should minimize the
number of deaths.

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 17:02:55 +0000, Dirk Bruere at Neopax
<dirk@neopax.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 09:19:54 +0000, Pooh Bear
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:



Americans might be astonished at the general good will between most of those
ethnic groups too.


Why would Americans be astonished? The Brits are well known for having
a peaceful society, except for the Northern Ireland thing. And America

Britain is not a peaceful society. It is just that our violence is sublethal
most of the time.

Well, except at soccer games.

John

 

[Paul Burke]

John Larkin wrote:

Post-Communist Russia, too. Yes, it was more a glass ceiling thing,
since the Jews were the people who got most of the work done.

And there was that little unpleasantness in Spain.

The official antisemitism in post revolutionary Russia came rather
later- late to post WWII- and the worst was pre-empted by Stalin's
death. And as for Spain, well, having expelled the Jews in 1492 they
didn't have many left to bash last century.

Paul Burke

 

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax]

John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:42:08 +0000, Dirk Bruere at Neopax
dirk@neopax.com> wrote:


Not necessarily. Britain (ie England) is a very violent nation. IIRC it has the
highest rate of violent crime in the Western world, but not the murder rate to
match.


See, if you had more guns, one number would go down and the other
would go up.

Then we'd be as safe as Americans.

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:42:08 +0000, Dirk Bruere at Neopax
<dirk@neopax.com> wrote:

Not necessarily. Britain (ie England) is a very violent nation. IIRC it has the
highest rate of violent crime in the Western world, but not the murder rate to
match.

See, if you had more guns, one number would go down and the other
would go up.

John

 

[richard mullens]

Jim Yanik wrote:

I doubt the Israelis have F-14's.Perhaps you mean F-15s,we have sold some
F-15A,B,C,D and Is to Israel.Now,Iran still has a couple of flyable F-14's.
I believe the Israelis use laser-guided Hellfire missiles launched from
helicopters for their killings of terrorist leaders.Fighter jets don't
carry Hellfire.(an anti-tank guided missile)

Thank you for the correction.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:26:20 GMT, richard mullens
<mullensdeletethis@ntlworld.com> wrote:

We are going round in circles. If it causes terror then it is terrorism surely ?

Surely not. That makes beer terrorism, because terrorists who don't
approve of alcohol bomb pubs.

BEER IS NOT TERRORISM!

would make a pretty good bumper sticker.

Assassination that kills or maims bystanders is terrorism.

Then every form of violence, including war, police chases, and
vaccinations, is terrorism. That sort of dilutes the meaning of the
word. What don't people understand about the root word "terror"?


John

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 02:37:49 GMT, richard mullens
<mullensdeletethis@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Jim Yanik wrote:


The moral illegitimacy is in equating targeted terrorist killings and
Palestinian car/bus bombings.



You Americans can dream up fine euphemisms.

Targeted terrorist killings - Murder.

No argument there. That was the intent, unless you miss.

Collateral Damage - Murder of innocent civilians.
Friendly fire - Self inflicted Murder of one's own.

English common law has long identified murder, and accidents have
never been considered such. Murder requires intent.

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 03:55:47 +0000, Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

richard mullens wrote:

Friendly fire - Self inflicted Murder of one's own.

Well, actually more usually their allies ! The UK has lost countless soldiers and airmen to US
'friendly fire' in recent times. Canada too. I forget who else.

The US has to the best of my knowledge not lost any military personnel to UK armed forces in
such so-called 'blue on blue' incidents.

That's because we're doing most of the shooting.

Did you know btw that US air force personnel are allowed - encouraged even ? - to take
stimulants such as amphetamines ( street name 'speed' ) before combat ?

In the RAF you would be grounded and probably discharged for such action - but RAF pilots would
never even contemplate needing such 'Dutch Courage' anyway.

Pilots don't need drugs for courage; they can use drugs to stay awake
and alert on long missions. Stealth bombers don't carry expresso
machines.

John

 

[Paul Burke]

Reg Edwards wrote:

Where do the suicide cases fit in? Guilty or innocent?

There's only one thing more horrifying than a suicide bomber. That's a
bomber who doesn't kill himself.

Paul Burke

 

[Paul Burke]

John Woodgate wrote:

And
(assuming they married locally and left descendants) Tigris boatmen at
Wallsend...


You've lost me there, though.

Sorry, they were at South Shields (Arbeia)- no Geordie will ever forgive me!

<http://www.archaeology.co.uk/ca/timeline/roman/arbeia/arbeia.htm>

Paul Burke

 

[Clarence_A]

"Pooh Bear" wrote

Jim Thompson wrote:
Pooh Bear wrote:
[snip]

You might be surprised to see that many of the UK's top
fighter pilots are mature men in their 30s
and 40s with no need to prove their masculinity through
testosterone overload tactics ! > > >Graham

That would be a surprise! I though you were talking about
"British" pilots! &gt

If you never fly in combat, who cares.
They have done many times.

During the Falklands 'conflict' where UK fighter pilots shot
down
down numerous Argie planes without a single combat loss !

Against untrained and inexperienced pilots they did very well! As
expected!

Then we helped you during Gulf War I - flying Tornados at mere
hundreds of feet in order to sneak in
under the radar in order to drop our runway denial bombs.

And more recently in Gulf War II.

Your sissy pilots seem to like flying at 15,000 ft where
they can't be shot down. And that's even with their drug
induced catatonia ! > Graham

Your real big on insults, perhaps you fly a combat jet and are
jealous?

I have known pilots from several Airforce squadrons, none took
drugs, none were hesitant to complete a mission no matter the
danger involved. And one I personally know used to come back from
missions with brush on his wing tanks from flying low to provide
supporting fire for the Marines. (Silver Star, AFM, Bronze star
with four clusters, and several other citations. Over eight
hundred combat flying hours.)

I can see you have no clue and no real knowledge of the people
your talking about!

 

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax]

Pooh Bear wrote:

Britain (ie England) is a very violent nation. IIRC it has the
highest rate of violent crime in the Western world,


Really ? Ye canna be serious laddie ! News to me. Do you have a cite for that ?

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/guncontrol_20010302.html

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org