[OT?] Off-the-shelf radio beacon?

[Wildepad]

This is probably off-topic because it's for an sf story rather than
something I'm actually trying to do, but I need a real-world answer. I
will appreciate your sharing your expertise, knowledge, and
experience.

Is there some sort of reliable beacon that is available off-the-shelf,
is easy to use, and does not require government permits to purchase or
use?

It has to be quickly set up and easily guide someone to it from
distances up to 100+ miles away.

'Easy to set up' can include parking a trailer on the top of a hill,
anchoring it, cranking up an antenna, folding out the solar panels,
and driving in a ground rod.

It cannot include anything requiring on-site electronics/rf knowledge.
It also cannot take more than about an hour to deploy.

'Easy to use' would be best as a handheld unit with an LED that lights
when pointed at the unit, but it can also include holding up a
transistor radio and sweeping it back and forth to get the general
direction.

It cannot require rotating an antenna (ala the classic radio direction
finder) because it is possible that the user will have to abandon
their vehicle. Things like distance readouts or similar would be nice,
but is nowhere near being required.

Although it needs to be off-the-shelf for a variety of reasons, slight
modifications to it are expected, most notably the addition of solar
panels because it will have to operate unattended for a month or more.
Any other modifications must fall within the talent/skill of a typical
electronics amateur and cannot be something that could compromise the
reliability of the unit.

The 'no government permits' requirement is because the user will want
to practice with it extensively before putting it to actual use, and
they cannot afford having their name on file anywhere. (The wattage
will have to be greatly reduced for such practice runs -- the idea is
just to work out any bugs in setting it up and learning the quirks of
the receiver.)

Obviously, GPS would be ideal, but this is for use where there are no
satellites.


I thought there must be some military surplus radios, pre-packaged
units for HAM field days, or other such things, but I cannot find
anything that is close to the requirements of utter reliability, ease
of use, and not needing extensive modifications.

Does anyone know of something applicable?

Any help appreciated.
--

 

[Jamie]

Wildepad wrote:

This is probably off-topic because it's for an sf story rather than
something I'm actually trying to do, but I need a real-world answer. I
will appreciate your sharing your expertise, knowledge, and
experience.

Is there some sort of reliable beacon that is available off-the-shelf,
is easy to use, and does not require government permits to purchase or
use?

It has to be quickly set up and easily guide someone to it from
distances up to 100+ miles away.

'Easy to set up' can include parking a trailer on the top of a hill,
anchoring it, cranking up an antenna, folding out the solar panels,
and driving in a ground rod.

It cannot include anything requiring on-site electronics/rf knowledge.
It also cannot take more than about an hour to deploy.

'Easy to use' would be best as a handheld unit with an LED that lights
when pointed at the unit, but it can also include holding up a
transistor radio and sweeping it back and forth to get the general
direction.

It cannot require rotating an antenna (ala the classic radio direction
finder) because it is possible that the user will have to abandon
their vehicle. Things like distance readouts or similar would be nice,
but is nowhere near being required.

Although it needs to be off-the-shelf for a variety of reasons, slight
modifications to it are expected, most notably the addition of solar
panels because it will have to operate unattended for a month or more.
Any other modifications must fall within the talent/skill of a typical
electronics amateur and cannot be something that could compromise the
reliability of the unit.

The 'no government permits' requirement is because the user will want
to practice with it extensively before putting it to actual use, and
they cannot afford having their name on file anywhere. (The wattage
will have to be greatly reduced for such practice runs -- the idea is
just to work out any bugs in setting it up and learning the quirks of
the receiver.)

Obviously, GPS would be ideal, but this is for use where there are no
satellites.


I thought there must be some military surplus radios, pre-packaged
units for HAM field days, or other such things, but I cannot find
anything that is close to the requirements of utter reliability, ease
of use, and not needing extensive modifications.

Does anyone know of something applicable?

Any help appreciated.
--
Not to sound suspicious or anything, but it appears that you're

trying to set up some drop or target points? What kind of business are
you trying to get into where you can't have any one know about it
and thus make it so the post can be abandon.

Should we really take you seriously or what?

I can tell you what I think it is but I won't.




--
"I'm never wrong, once i thought i was, but was mistaken"
Real Programmers Do things like this.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5

 

[Roger Dewhurst]

"Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote in message
news:u9bUi.416$Li7.345@newsfe06.lga...

Wildepad wrote:

This is probably off-topic because it's for an sf story rather than
something I'm actually trying to do, but I need a real-world answer. I
will appreciate your sharing your expertise, knowledge, and
experience.

Is there some sort of reliable beacon that is available off-the-shelf,
is easy to use, and does not require government permits to purchase or
use?

It has to be quickly set up and easily guide someone to it from
distances up to 100+ miles away. 'Easy to set up' can include parking a
trailer on the top of a hill,
anchoring it, cranking up an antenna, folding out the solar panels,
and driving in a ground rod. It cannot include anything requiring on-site
electronics/rf knowledge.
It also cannot take more than about an hour to deploy.

'Easy to use' would be best as a handheld unit with an LED that lights
when pointed at the unit, but it can also include holding up a
transistor radio and sweeping it back and forth to get the general
direction. It cannot require rotating an antenna (ala the classic radio
direction
finder) because it is possible that the user will have to abandon
their vehicle. Things like distance readouts or similar would be nice,
but is nowhere near being required.

Although it needs to be off-the-shelf for a variety of reasons, slight
modifications to it are expected, most notably the addition of solar
panels because it will have to operate unattended for a month or more.
Any other modifications must fall within the talent/skill of a typical
electronics amateur and cannot be something that could compromise the
reliability of the unit.

The 'no government permits' requirement is because the user will want
to practice with it extensively before putting it to actual use, and
they cannot afford having their name on file anywhere. (The wattage
will have to be greatly reduced for such practice runs -- the idea is
just to work out any bugs in setting it up and learning the quirks of
the receiver.)

Obviously, GPS would be ideal, but this is for use where there are no
satellites.


I thought there must be some military surplus radios, pre-packaged
units for HAM field days, or other such things, but I cannot find
anything that is close to the requirements of utter reliability, ease
of use, and not needing extensive modifications.

Does anyone know of something applicable?

Any help appreciated.
--
Not to sound suspicious or anything, but it appears that you're
trying to set up some drop or target points? What kind of business are
you trying to get into where you can't have any one know about it
and thus make it so the post can be abandon.

Should we really take you seriously or what?

I can tell you what I think it is but I won't.

He is only trying to write some science fiction but wants to make it half
plausible.

R

--
"I'm never wrong, once i thought i was, but was mistaken"
Real Programmers Do things like this.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5

 

[Wildepad]

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 21:28:57 -0400, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

Wildepad wrote:

This is probably off-topic because it's for an sf story rather than
something I'm actually trying to do, but I need a real-world answer. I
will appreciate your sharing your expertise, knowledge, and
experience.

Is there some sort of reliable beacon that is available off-the-shelf,
is easy to use, and does not require government permits to purchase or
use?

--
Not to sound suspicious or anything, but it appears that you're
trying to set up some drop or target points? What kind of business are
you trying to get into where you can't have any one know about it
and thus make it so the post can be abandon.

Should we really take you seriously or what?

I can tell you what I think it is but I won't.

As I said, this is for a science fiction story.

The basic premise is that a person is able to travel to parallel
universes. In those universes which are so closely parallel that an
'Earth' exists, a high percentage of the planets will be uninhabited.
The protag wants to explore these as much as possible, but needs a
reliable way to find their way back to the entry point so they can
come home.

Compasses can be unreliable (iron deposits can throw them off),
inertial navigation is out of the question (the units are too big to
carry by hand), and celestial navigation requires expertise.

Except for its limited range, a radio system seems ideal.

There are two main reasons for wanting to avoid anything in writing --
first, for someone not especially interested in being a HAM, it would
be long and difficult to learn enough to get the license required for
most permits.

second, there are five major fields which a person has to dip into in
order to explore such a world and/or exploit anything they find. For
two of those fields, it is impossible to not leave traces behind of
your activity (unless you want to do things illegally). By keeping
your name out of the other three fields, you won't be found by a
cross-referencing search of all applicable databases, so overzealous
government regulators, hijackers, blackmailers, etc. etc. etc. won't
suspect what you're doing.


IF I was interested in setting up drop points, GPS is easy, cheap,
reliable, and perfectly stealthy.

IF I was interested in setting up target points, instead of placing a
trailer-mounted unit or other large package on the site, I'd just lay
out the explosives when I'm there.
--

 

[Roger Dewhurst]

"Wildepad" <noreplies> wrote in message
news:7sa2i31099ijjb4rfhblvdau1bonkh7534@4ax.com...

This is probably off-topic because it's for an sf story rather than
something I'm actually trying to do, but I need a real-world answer. I
will appreciate your sharing your expertise, knowledge, and
experience.

Is there some sort of reliable beacon that is available off-the-shelf,
is easy to use, and does not require government permits to purchase or
use?

It has to be quickly set up and easily guide someone to it from
distances up to 100+ miles away.

Guiding something to it is much easier than the reverse. You have much of
the high frequency end of the radio spectrum to use. Any transmitter can be
detected and the location pinned down using receivers with directional
antennae.

'Easy to set up' can include parking a trailer on the top of a hill,
anchoring it, cranking up an antenna, folding out the solar panels,
and driving in a ground rod.

You can probably build a suitable transmitter in a device not much bigger
than a matchbox.

Google tracking devices and search through simple electronic circuits. Look
for devices which help the owner to find his model aeroplane. Just beef it
up a wee bit.


R

 

[Wildepad]

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:36:22 +1300, "Roger Dewhurst"
<dewhurst@wave.co.nz> wrote:

"Wildepad" <noreplies> wrote in message
news:7sa2i31099ijjb4rfhblvdau1bonkh7534@4ax.com...
This is probably off-topic because it's for an sf story rather than
something I'm actually trying to do, but I need a real-world answer. I
will appreciate your sharing your expertise, knowledge, and
experience.

Is there some sort of reliable beacon that is available off-the-shelf,
is easy to use, and does not require government permits to purchase or
use?

It has to be quickly set up and easily guide someone to it from
distances up to 100+ miles away.

Guiding something to it is much easier than the reverse. You have much of
the high frequency end of the radio spectrum to use. Any transmitter can be
detected and the location pinned down using receivers with directional
antennae.

I picture it as 'fox-and-hound' on a larger scale. The problem I'm
having is finding something that will work over a large distance.

'Easy to set up' can include parking a trailer on the top of a hill,
anchoring it, cranking up an antenna, folding out the solar panels,
and driving in a ground rod.

You can probably build a suitable transmitter in a device not much bigger
than a matchbox.

Google tracking devices and search through simple electronic circuits. Look
for devices which help the owner to find his model aeroplane. Just beef it
up a wee bit.

That's the kind of thing I need, but my protagonist isn't into
electronics, at least not enough to feel confident building something
that his life might depend upon. (I hate it when the main character
"just happens" to be an expert in absoutely every field they
enounter.)

Asking someone to build it for him would raise questions (what would
you think if someone asked you to make such a thing and then hemmed
and hawed when you asked what they wanted it for?).

So I'm stuck with either finding something off-the-shelf or figuring
out some other way for him to find his way back to his starting point
from up to 100 miles away in uncharted territory where he might not be
able to retrace his route.


A writer has to get this sort of thing right because the readers won't
have the required suspension of disbelief for the big issues if
there's an obvious mistake in the rw stuff.


Thanks.
--

 

[Suzy]

"Wildepad" <noreplies> wrote in message
news:7sa2i31099ijjb4rfhblvdau1bonkh7534@4ax.com...

...
finder) because it is possible that the user will have to abandon
their vehicle.
....

Why?
....

The 'no government permits' requirement is because the user will want
to practice with it extensively before putting it to actual use, and
they cannot afford having their name on file anywhere.
....

Why?

 

[Wildepad]

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:48:12 +1000, "Suzy" <not@valid> wrote:

"Wildepad" <noreplies> wrote in message
news:7sa2i31099ijjb4rfhblvdau1bonkh7534@4ax.com...
...
finder) because it is possible that the user will have to abandon
their vehicle.
...
Why?

All sorts of things can happen, from engine failure to getting stuck.

The 'no government permits' requirement is because the user will want
to practice with it extensively before putting it to actual use, and
they cannot afford having their name on file anywhere.
...

Why?

Because that gets your name put in databases and lets others know what
you're doing which, while not technically illegal, can open you up to
all sorts of regulations and/or hijacking, blackmail, etc.
--

 

[Rich Grise]

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 19:51:05 -0500, Wildepad wrote:

This is probably off-topic because it's for an sf story rather than
something I'm actually trying to do, but I need a real-world answer. I
will appreciate your sharing your expertise, knowledge, and
experience.

Is there some sort of reliable beacon that is available off-the-shelf,
is easy to use, and does not require government permits to purchase or
use?

Shop boat and airplane stores and clubs and such, and ask for "survival
beacons" or the like.

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:20:55 -0500, Wildepad wrote:

So I'm stuck with either finding something off-the-shelf or figuring
out some other way for him to find his way back to his starting point
from up to 100 miles away in uncharted territory where he might not be
able to retrace his route.

http://www.manions.com/bid/bid.aspx~itemid~5885569~pic~20070902#photo1

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 21:28:57 -0400, Jamie wrote:

Wildepad wrote:

This is probably off-topic because it's for an sf story rather than
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
something I'm actually trying to do, but I need a real-world answer. I
will appreciate your sharing your expertise, knowledge, and experience.
....
Not to sound suspicious or anything, but it appears that you're
trying to set up some drop or target points? What kind of business are
you trying to get into where you can't have any one know about it and
thus make it so the post can be abandon.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 21:29:18 -0500, Wildepad wrote:

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 21:28:57 -0400, Jamie
Wildepad wrote:

As I said, this is for a science fiction story.

The basic premise is that a person is able to travel to parallel
universes. In those universes which are so closely parallel that an
'Earth' exists, a high percentage of the planets will be uninhabited.
The protag wants to explore these as much as possible, but needs a
reliable way to find their way back to the entry point so they can
come home.

Then you need some entirely new technology, to go hand-in-hand with
whatever gets him from one parallel universe to the next - if radio
waves could do that, we'd be swamped with cross-dimensional interference
pretty much 24/7.

Is he the only one with this ability, or is he a member of some
organization; is it a secret, or general knowledge? If he's an agent,
and the organization he's working for is using it for nefarious
purposes, then just give him a little James-Bondesque tracker, which
uses the same principles as the cross-dimensional portal, which you
don't have to explain anyway.

If he's a rogue, and wants his own tracker that's safe from them,
then either he or an accomplice needs to be McGuffin, or whatever
that guy's name was that can make an Enigma out of bottle caps. ;-)
(or a mnemonic memory device from stone axes and animal skins. ;-) )

I'm kinda partial to parallel universe stories - wanna collaborate
on "Star Trek: Empire" with me? It starts right when Zefram shoots
the Vulcan scout, and they strip the ship, and form the Empire, and
all the stories that can arise from that.

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[Wildepad]

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:07:52 GMT, Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 22:20:55 -0500, Wildepad wrote:

So I'm stuck with either finding something off-the-shelf or figuring
out some other way for him to find his way back to his starting point
from up to 100 miles away in uncharted territory where he might not be
able to retrace his route.

http://www.manions.com/bid/bid.aspx~itemid~5885569~pic~20070902#photo1

Thanks . . . but

I should have mentioned that I thought of that sort of thing (focusing
mainly on the beacons used in light planes because they seem to have
the longest range).

The problem is that they have a small transmitter and the receiver
uses a large directional antenna, which is exactly the reverse of what
is needed in this scenario.

Also, part of the backstory is how the protag practices with all the
equipment, and I don't know how the authorities would react to your
setting off such beacons dozens of times when no one is actually in
danger.

Thanks!
--

 

[Wildepad]

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:19:17 GMT, Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 21:29:18 -0500, Wildepad wrote:
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 21:28:57 -0400, Jamie
Wildepad wrote:

As I said, this is for a science fiction story.

The basic premise is that a person is able to travel to parallel
universes. In those universes which are so closely parallel that an
'Earth' exists, a high percentage of the planets will be uninhabited.
The protag wants to explore these as much as possible, but needs a
reliable way to find their way back to the entry point so they can
come home.

Then you need some entirely new technology, to go hand-in-hand with
whatever gets him from one parallel universe to the next

Um, no. Hardware generally falls into two categories:

1) invisible in context (because of generations of blasters and ray
guns, ST's phasers were readily accepted as just part of the scenery).

2) so crucial that their method/construction/operating principles must
be explained in detail (a hazardous prospect because a single error in
theory or mechanics will ruin the story for a reader).

(Ever read any 19th Century sf which contained rockets? The need for
showing that such things could be real sometimes resulted in augers
feeding gunpowder into the rocket motor.)

If the protag uses gosh-wow tech, it falls into the second category,
creating a lot more work and opening many pitfalls. But a radio
direction finder is familiar to almost everyone and only needs a
mention that it's there.

In this particular case, it gets a bit of time center stage because
gathering the necessary gear without raising anyone's suspicions is an
important part of the story.

Is he the only one with this ability, or is he a member of some
organization;

Neither.

This is set in the very-near-future. For a variety of reasons, the
government maintains strict control over the use of the technology,
and it is reaping the benefits of being able to sell/assign access to
useful worlds.

As per human nature, a black market forms. Here, this takes the form
of a series of people/groups who each do a specific thing.

Someone with a full-rigged-finder in a secure lab opens a microscopic
hole to a parallel universe. They then sell those coordinates (which
fill a flash drive). The value is determined by whether the connection
is energy positive (such as opening into the middle of a sun),
negative (the vacuum of space), or neutral (either solid or
significant gas, such as found if there is a planet at the site).

People who buy the neutrals open a slightly larger hole and take
samples. Their customers pay varying amounts according to whether
there is ore that can be mined, valuable gases which can be pumped
out, etc.

This protagonist buys coordinates that open on or near the surface of
a world with an Earth-like atmosphere without any trace of organic
compounds. He collects samples over as wide an area as possible, but
his main contribution is surviving a week on that world, which shows
that it is relatively harmless. (He's basically a value-added
reseller.)

He was once part of a team, but they disbanded when they made an
incredibly valuable find which let the powers-that-be in the group
retire comfortably and left the grunts (like him) to shift for
themselves. Most joined other teams, but he decided to strike out on
his own.

How the portal works needs no description because he doesn't know --
he just rents time on an illicit machine owned and operated by someone
else in the black market.

I'm kinda partial to parallel universe stories - wanna collaborate
on "Star Trek: Empire" with me?

In my experience, collaborations never work out.

It starts right when Zefram shoots
the Vulcan scout,

And since I have no idea what that means, I'm obviously not the person
you want writing it with you!
--

 

[David Harmon]

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 21:29:18 -0500 in sci.electronics.basics, Wildepad
<noreplies> wrote,

There are two main reasons for wanting to avoid anything in writing --
first, for someone not especially interested in being a HAM, it would
be long and difficult to learn enough to get the license required for
most permits.

In the USA there are no permits required to purchase amateur radio
equipment; only to operate it. And the basic technician license is
pretty easy anyway.

 

[Wildepad]

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:06:02 -0700, David Harmon <source@netcom.com>
wrote:

In the USA there are no permits required to purchase amateur radio
equipment; only to operate it. And the basic technician license is
pretty easy anyway.

Maybe it's easy for you. It sure ain't for some of us.

I've been messing around with electronics for about 50 years. (When I
started, it was all vacuum tubes and selenium rectifiers, with some
rumors about doped crystals.)

I've designed and built many small circuits (power supplies,
'gameshow' buttons, interface to drive a stepper from a Centronics
port, etc.). Nothing major, and no rf, but I sort of know my way
around.

When they dropped the Morse requirement for a license, I decided to
look into it and got a sample test. I didn't understand what half the
questions meant, and in those portions that I sort-of knew what they
were talking about, I had no idea how to figure out the answer.

I think it has to be one of those things you're interested in learning
before you have a hope of getting the hang of it enough to pass the
test.
--

 

[Martin Blume]

"Wildepad"

[science fiction story element on homing back to
a gate to a parallel universe]
[...] and celestial navigation requires expertise.

Why not assume that a gadget has been invented that allows

celestial navigation? You take a "CNAV" gadget (size of a
GPS receiver), point it at the sky (ok, you need visibility),
it takes a snapshot of the sky, correlates the stars with
its almanac (you might have to feed in correct local time
beforehand) and after some calculation spits out your local
coordinates.
It might even be possible to do interstellar locationing.

The rest is left as an exercise to the reader.

HTH.
Martin

 

[Jamie]

Suzy wrote:

"Wildepad" <noreplies> wrote in message
news:7sa2i31099ijjb4rfhblvdau1bonkh7534@4ax.com...

...
finder) because it is possible that the user will have to abandon
their vehicle.

...
Why?
...

The 'no government permits' requirement is because the user will want
to practice with it extensively before putting it to actual use, and
they cannot afford having their name on file anywhere.

...

Why?


that's my question, "WHY"

sounds like a way to innocently acquire information.

I've been around far to long to say so otherwise.
oh well.


--
"I'm never wrong, once i thought i was, but was mistaken"
Real Programmers Do things like this.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5

 

[Suzy]

"Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote in message
news:lOJUi.20$O55.6@newsfe05.lga...

Suzy wrote:

"Wildepad" <noreplies> wrote in message
news:7sa2i31099ijjb4rfhblvdau1bonkh7534@4ax.com...

...
finder) because it is possible that the user will have to abandon
their vehicle.

...
Why?
...

The 'no government permits' requirement is because the user will want
to practice with it extensively before putting it to actual use, and
they cannot afford having their name on file anywhere.

...

Why?
that's my question, "WHY"

sounds like a way to innocently acquire information.

I've been around far to long to say so otherwise.
oh well.


--
"I'm never wrong, once i thought i was, but was mistaken"
Real Programmers Do things like this.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5

Innocently? Sounds the opposite to me...

 

[Jamie]

Suzy wrote:

"Jamie" <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote in message
news:lOJUi.20$O55.6@newsfe05.lga...

Suzy wrote:


"Wildepad" <noreplies> wrote in message
news:7sa2i31099ijjb4rfhblvdau1bonkh7534@4ax.com...


...
finder) because it is possible that the user will have to abandon
their vehicle.

...
Why?
...


The 'no government permits' requirement is because the user will want
to practice with it extensively before putting it to actual use, and
they cannot afford having their name on file anywhere.

...

Why?

that's my question, "WHY"

sounds like a way to innocently acquire information.

I've been around far to long to say so otherwise.
oh well.


--
"I'm never wrong, once i thought i was, but was mistaken"
Real Programmers Do things like this.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5


Innocently? Sounds the opposite to me...


Well, make it appear that way

--
"I'm never wrong, once i thought i was, but was mistaken"
Real Programmers Do things like this.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5