OT: Lithium Cells Exploding

[Michael Kennedy]

I recently found out that Lithium cells are no longer allowed in checked
luggage on airplanes in the US.

Personally I have tortured those lithium button cells and have never had
them do anything really dangerous other than spew some nasty stuff out.

I would understand if this referred to litium-ion cells.. Does anyone have
any bad expirence with standard lithium coin cells catching fire? Since
this seems to be what they are concerned with.[
-
Mike

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 15:15:24 +0900, "Michael Kennedy" <mike@com> wrote:

I recently found out that Lithium cells are no longer allowed in checked
luggage on airplanes in the US.

Personally I have tortured those lithium button cells and have never had
them do anything really dangerous other than spew some nasty stuff out.

I would understand if this referred to litium-ion cells.. Does anyone have
any bad expirence with standard lithium coin cells catching fire? Since
this seems to be what they are concerned with.[

Are you sure?

<http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lithiummangdioxide-coin_psds.pdf>
"Energizer lithium coin batteries are exempt from the
classification as dangerous goods as they meet the requirements
of the special provisions listed below. (Essentially, they are
properly packaged and labeled, contain less than 1 gram of
lithium and pass the tests defined in UN model regulation
section 38.3)."

However, these comments may have gotting their attention:
"Handling: Accidental short circuit for a few seconds will not
seriously affect the battery. Prolonged short circuit will
cause the battery to lose energy, generate significant heat
and can cause the safety release vent to open. Sources of
short circuits include jumbled batteries in bulk containers,
metal jewelry, metal covered tables or metal belts used for
assembly of batteries into devices. Damaging a lithium battery
may result in an internal short circuit."

"The contents of an open battery, including a vented battery,
when exposed to water, may result in a fire and/or explosion.
Crushed or damaged batteries may result in a fire."

I had a 2032 coin cell get shorted by my car keys while in my pocket.
No explosion or fire, but it sure burned my leg.

Not exactly a coin battery, but interesting:
Primary Lithium battery explodes!
<http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?121303-Primary-Lithium-battery-explodes!>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[N_Cook]

Michael Kennedy <mike@com> wrote in message
news:ZOCdncHYbe3p4mHRnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com...

I recently found out that Lithium cells are no longer allowed in checked
luggage on airplanes in the US.

Personally I have tortured those lithium button cells and have never had
them do anything really dangerous other than spew some nasty stuff out.

I would understand if this referred to litium-ion cells.. Does anyone have
any bad expirence with standard lithium coin cells catching fire? Since
this seems to be what they are concerned with.[
-
Mike

Have they also banned flying on planes using Rolls Royce Trent engines which
are proven to catch fire and explode in flight.

 

[Brenda Ann]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
news:slrnifplum.6fq.gsm@cable.mendelson.com...

Michael Kennedy wrote:

I recently found out that Lithium cells are no longer allowed in checked
luggage on airplanes in the US.

Personally I have tortured those lithium button cells and have never had
them do anything really dangerous other than spew some nasty stuff out.

There was an Austrian Airlines jet brought down because a shipment of
watches had a large number of the lithium cells in them leak in the
unpressurized cargo hold and catch fire.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How long before they quit letting us take any electronics at all on a plane?

 

[Jim Yanik]

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:l22pf69g6sgk8thhkk91hrpp9njtths033@4ax.com:

On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 15:15:24 +0900, "Michael Kennedy" <mike@com> wrote:

I recently found out that Lithium cells are no longer allowed in
checked luggage on airplanes in the US.

Personally I have tortured those lithium button cells and have never
had them do anything really dangerous other than spew some nasty stuff
out.

I would understand if this referred to litium-ion cells.. Does anyone
have any bad expirence with standard lithium coin cells catching
fire? Since this seems to be what they are concerned with.[

Are you sure?

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lithiummangdioxide-coin_psds.pdf
"Energizer lithium coin batteries are exempt from the
classification as dangerous goods as they meet the requirements
of the special provisions listed below. (Essentially, they are
properly packaged and labeled, contain less than 1 gram of
lithium and pass the tests defined in UN model regulation
section 38.3)."

However, these comments may have gotting their attention:
"Handling: Accidental short circuit for a few seconds will not
seriously affect the battery. Prolonged short circuit will
cause the battery to lose energy, generate significant heat
and can cause the safety release vent to open. Sources of
short circuits include jumbled batteries in bulk containers,
metal jewelry, metal covered tables or metal belts used for
assembly of batteries into devices. Damaging a lithium battery
may result in an internal short circuit."

"The contents of an open battery, including a vented battery,
when exposed to water, may result in a fire and/or explosion.
Crushed or damaged batteries may result in a fire."

I had a 2032 coin cell get shorted by my car keys while in my pocket.
No explosion or fire, but it sure burned my leg.

Not exactly a coin battery, but interesting:
Primary Lithium battery explodes!
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?121303-Primary-Lithi
um-battery-explodes!

is the flight prohibition against lithium CELLS or battery PACKS?
like the laptop PC battery packs that have had fire problems,and would have
exposed contacts that could be shorted by other items in the baggage.
Or spare cellphone battery packs,out of their OEM packaging.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

 

[Gerard Bok]

On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 09:03:09 -0000, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk>
wrote:

Michael Kennedy <mike@com> wrote in message
news:ZOCdncHYbe3p4mHRnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
I recently found out that Lithium cells are no longer allowed in checked
luggage on airplanes in the US.

Personally I have tortured those lithium button cells and have never had
them do anything really dangerous other than spew some nasty stuff out.

I would understand if this referred to litium-ion cells.. Does anyone have
any bad expirence with standard lithium coin cells catching fire? Since
this seems to be what they are concerned with.[

Have they also banned flying on planes using Rolls Royce Trent engines which
are proven to catch fire and explode in flight.

That's why they are only used on the outside of an airplane

--
Kind regards,
Gerard Bok

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Michael Kennedy wrote:

I recently found out that Lithium cells are no longer allowed in checked
luggage on airplanes in the US.

Personally I have tortured those lithium button cells and have never had
them do anything really dangerous other than spew some nasty stuff out.

There was an Austrian Airlines jet brought down because a shipment of
watches had a large number of the lithium cells in them leak in the
unpressurized cargo hold and catch fire.

The "nasty stuff" is extremely flamable in large quantities.

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

 

[Spamm Trappe]

On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 21:48:40 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote:

How long before they quit letting us take any electronics at all on a
plane?

They won't be happy until we're required to show up naked with no
luggage.

 

[Wolfgang Allinger]

On 06 Dec 10 at group /sci/electronics/repair in article
<gsm@mendelson.com> (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) wrote:

Michael Kennedy wrote:
I recently found out that Lithium cells are no longer allowed in
checked luggage on airplanes in the US.

Personally I have tortured those lithium button cells and have never
had them do anything really dangerous other than spew some nasty
stuff out.

There was an Austrian Airlines jet brought down because a shipment of
watches had a large number of the lithium cells in them leak in the
unpressurized cargo hold and catch fire.

There are no unpressured cargo holds in civil passenger or cargo planes
since 60 or more years! They are even heated. The pressure is about
2000m MSL (or 2400m? I forgot)

The "nasty stuff" is extremely flamable in large quantities.

Yes, especially in non existing worlds and movies



Saludos Wolfgang

--
Meine 7 Sinne:
Unsinn, Schwachsinn, Blödsinn, Wahnsinn, Stumpfsinn, Irrsinn, Lötzinn.
Wolfgang Allinger Paraguay reply Adresse gesetzt !
ca. 15h00..21h00 MEZ SKYPE:wolfgang.allinger

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 06 Dec 2010 07:17:34 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov>
wrote:

is the flight prohibition against lithium CELLS or battery PACKS?
like the laptop PC battery packs that have had fire problems,and would have
exposed contacts that could be shorted by other items in the baggage.
Or spare cellphone battery packs,out of their OEM packaging.

Duh... I should have looked for that first. The regs have been in
place since Jan 1, 2008.
<http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html>
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Bob Villa]

On Dec 6, 8:29 am, Spamm Trappe <knock_yourself_...@example.net>
wrote:

On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 21:48:40 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote:

How long before they quit letting us take any electronics at all on a
plane?

They won't be happy until we're required to show up naked with no
luggage.

A cavity probe would still be necessary...sorry!

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 06 Dec 2010 08:35:06 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Dec 2010 07:17:34 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov
wrote:

is the flight prohibition against lithium CELLS or battery PACKS?
like the laptop PC battery packs that have had fire problems,and would have
exposed contacts that could be shorted by other items in the baggage.
Or spare cellphone battery packs,out of their OEM packaging.

Duh... I should have looked for that first. The regs have been in
place since Jan 1, 2008.
http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

More:
<http://safetravel.dot.gov/quick_chart.html>

Are lithium-ion batteries the next threat to airline safety?
<http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/travel/2010-08-16-airlinebatteries16_CV_N.htm>
FAA data show that from March 20, 1991, through Aug. 3, 2010,
batteries and battery-powered devices were involved in 113
incidents with "smoke, fire, extreme heat or explosion" on
passenger and cargo planes. The data are for lithium and
non-lithium batteries and are not a complete list of such
incidents, the agency says.

I think this is what inspired the TSO to step up enforcement:
<http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101026/ap_on_bi_ge/us_planes_on_fire>


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:

Michael Kennedy wrote:
I recently found out that Lithium cells are no longer allowed in checked
luggage on airplanes in the US.

Personally I have tortured those lithium button cells and have never had
them do anything really dangerous other than spew some nasty stuff out.

There was an Austrian Airlines jet brought down because a shipment of
watches had a large number of the lithium cells in them leak in the
unpressurized cargo hold and catch fire.

The "nasty stuff" is extremely flamable in large quantities.

NASA won't allow any litium cells in space. We had to use 'Capstore'
NVRAM in our products for space applications. Since the cost difference
was small, we dropped the battery backed NVRAM from our products.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

 

[Michael Kennedy]

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:gm4qf6dp2n0aprcopk0b4nkaccr3n1ucnj@4ax.com...

On Mon, 06 Dec 2010 08:35:06 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com
wrote:

On Mon, 06 Dec 2010 07:17:34 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov
wrote:

is the flight prohibition against lithium CELLS or battery PACKS?
like the laptop PC battery packs that have had fire problems,and would
have
exposed contacts that could be shorted by other items in the baggage.
Or spare cellphone battery packs,out of their OEM packaging.

Duh... I should have looked for that first. The regs have been in
place since Jan 1, 2008.
http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

More:
http://safetravel.dot.gov/quick_chart.html

Are lithium-ion batteries the next threat to airline safety?
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/travel/2010-08-16-airlinebatteries16_CV_N.htm
FAA data show that from March 20, 1991, through Aug. 3, 2010,
batteries and battery-powered devices were involved in 113
incidents with "smoke, fire, extreme heat or explosion" on
passenger and cargo planes. The data are for lithium and
non-lithium batteries and are not a complete list of such
incidents, the agency says.

I think this is what inspired the TSO to step up enforcement:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101026/ap_on_bi_ge/us_planes_on_fire

Well I didn't know the regulations, but I was told by the post office here
in Japan that no lithium battery Coin cell included or lead acid batteries
are allowed in Air Mail.

Go figure they got the translation wrong and of course nobody knows enough
about how things work to even ask the question why they are banning it.
Honestly I can understand Li-ion batteries being banned, but non rechargable
coin cells didnt make any sense to me.

That clears that up I guess.

- Mike

 

[Michael Kennedy]

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:idi8pg$5j0$1@news.eternal-september.org...

Michael Kennedy <mike@com> wrote in message
news:ZOCdncHYbe3p4mHRnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
I recently found out that Lithium cells are no longer allowed in checked
luggage on airplanes in the US.

Personally I have tortured those lithium button cells and have never had
them do anything really dangerous other than spew some nasty stuff out.

I would understand if this referred to litium-ion cells.. Does anyone
have
any bad expirence with standard lithium coin cells catching fire? Since
this seems to be what they are concerned with.[
-
Mike



Have they also banned flying on planes using Rolls Royce Trent engines
which
are proven to catch fire and explode in flight.
haha.

No they aren't worried about solving any acutal safety problems. They are
just here to inoconvience everyone to the virge of insanity.

 

[Michael Kennedy]

"Michael Kennedy" <mike@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:rv2dnT5AiZMot2DRnZ2dnVY3go-dnZ2d@giganews.com...

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:idi8pg$5j0$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Michael Kennedy <mike@com> wrote in message
news:ZOCdncHYbe3p4mHRnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
I recently found out that Lithium cells are no longer allowed in checked
luggage on airplanes in the US.

Personally I have tortured those lithium button cells and have never had
them do anything really dangerous other than spew some nasty stuff out.

I would understand if this referred to litium-ion cells.. Does anyone
have
any bad expirence with standard lithium coin cells catching fire? Since
this seems to be what they are concerned with.[
-
Mike



Have they also banned flying on planes using Rolls Royce Trent engines
which
are proven to catch fire and explode in flight.
haha.

No they aren't worried about solving any acutal safety problems. They are
just here to inoconvience everyone to the virge of insanity.

On that note as well.. Did anyone know there is a 1lb / 455gram limit on all
parcels flying airmail to the USA? It isnt being enforced everywhere yet,
but this is what the TSA requested / demanded.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 03:28:05 +0900, "Michael Kennedy" <mike@nospam.com>
wrote:

On that note as well.. Did anyone know there is a 1lb / 455gram limit on all
parcels flying airmail to the USA? It isnt being enforced everywhere yet,
but this is what the TSA requested / demanded.

Lovely. The TSA imposes this limit and Japan retaliates.
<http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20101117a5.html>

Here's the brilliant logic:
Packages containing explosives were found in Britain and
Dubai on two cargo planes from Yemen bound for the U.S.
in late October. The TSA heightened its aviation alert
level since then.
Therefore, anything weighing over 1 lb must be a bomb.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Brenda Ann]

"Michael Kennedy" wrote in message
news:HcydnSwdoYmntmDRnZ2dnVY3go6dnZ2d@giganews.com...


On that note as well.. Did anyone know there is a 1lb / 455gram limit on all
parcels flying airmail to the USA? It isnt being enforced everywhere yet,
but this is what the TSA requested / demanded.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That would effectively ban all parcels over 1lb to the US, since there is no
longer any international surface mail into or out of the US. Such a rule
will never fly, as it would pretty much curtail any international small
quantity commerce. Would REALLY piss off the troops, too, as it would pretty
much mean they couldn't send anything home other than letters. Would also
severly cripple military contractors, etc.

 

[Brenda Ann]

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
news:q3fqf694eb6h6q0i2err0cdk1qbe46f2bf@4ax.com...
Here's the brilliant logic:
Packages containing explosives were found in Britain and
Dubai on two cargo planes from Yemen bound for the U.S.
in late October. The TSA heightened its aviation alert
level since then.
Therefore, anything weighing over 1 lb must be a bomb.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lovely... the grandest of idiocy, just in time for the holiday mailing
season..

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Mon, 06 Dec 2010 07:17:34 -0600, the renowned Jim Yanik
<jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:l22pf69g6sgk8thhkk91hrpp9njtths033@4ax.com:

On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 15:15:24 +0900, "Michael Kennedy" <mike@com> wrote:

I recently found out that Lithium cells are no longer allowed in
checked luggage on airplanes in the US.

Personally I have tortured those lithium button cells and have never
had them do anything really dangerous other than spew some nasty stuff
out.

I would understand if this referred to litium-ion cells.. Does anyone
have any bad expirence with standard lithium coin cells catching
fire? Since this seems to be what they are concerned with.[

Are you sure?

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lithiummangdioxide-coin_psds.pdf
"Energizer lithium coin batteries are exempt from the
classification as dangerous goods as they meet the requirements
of the special provisions listed below. (Essentially, they are
properly packaged and labeled, contain less than 1 gram of
lithium and pass the tests defined in UN model regulation
section 38.3)."

However, these comments may have gotting their attention:
"Handling: Accidental short circuit for a few seconds will not
seriously affect the battery. Prolonged short circuit will
cause the battery to lose energy, generate significant heat
and can cause the safety release vent to open. Sources of
short circuits include jumbled batteries in bulk containers,
metal jewelry, metal covered tables or metal belts used for
assembly of batteries into devices. Damaging a lithium battery
may result in an internal short circuit."

"The contents of an open battery, including a vented battery,
when exposed to water, may result in a fire and/or explosion.
Crushed or damaged batteries may result in a fire."

I had a 2032 coin cell get shorted by my car keys while in my pocket.
No explosion or fire, but it sure burned my leg.

Not exactly a coin battery, but interesting:
Primary Lithium battery explodes!
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?121303-Primary-Lithi
um-battery-explodes!


is the flight prohibition against lithium CELLS or battery PACKS?
like the laptop PC battery packs that have had fire problems,and would have
exposed contacts that could be shorted by other items in the baggage.
Or spare cellphone battery packs,out of their OEM packaging.

Digikey won't ship an order by air that contains even a single Li
button cell!


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com