OT? Lightning

[micky]

OT? A couple days ago I'm outside and there's a heavy rain with
lightning not that far away, and suddenly the question occurs to me,
"What is the difference between an umbrella and a golf club?"

I'll admit, I've not heard more than once of someone killed by lightning
while carrying an umbrella, but that doesn't explain the difference, if
any.

Perhaps you guys know?

Thanks.

 

[dave]

On 07/07/2014 01:37 AM, micky wrote:

OT? A couple days ago I'm outside and there's a heavy rain with
lightning not that far away, and suddenly the question occurs to me,
"What is the difference between an umbrella and a golf club?"

I'll admit, I've not heard more than once of someone killed by lightning
while carrying an umbrella, but that doesn't explain the difference, if
any.

Perhaps you guys know?

Thanks.

The static charge is dissipated by the metal framework; the golf club
can't bleed off the charge.

 

[Bill Gill]

On 7/7/2014 3:37 AM, micky wrote:

OT? A couple days ago I'm outside and there's a heavy rain with
lightning not that far away, and suddenly the question occurs to me,
"What is the difference between an umbrella and a golf club?"

I'll admit, I've not heard more than once of someone killed by lightning
while carrying an umbrella, but that doesn't explain the difference, if
any.

Perhaps you guys know?

Thanks.

I didn't get killed, but one time I got a tingle when I
was walking across a parking lot in the rain, with an
umbrella. I expect the strike was someplace close by
and I got a side effect. It was just small tingle in
my thumb where it pressed against the ferrule at the
base of the shaft.

Bill

 

[N_Cook]

On 07/07/2014 13:50, Bill Gill wrote:

On 7/7/2014 3:37 AM, micky wrote:
OT? A couple days ago I'm outside and there's a heavy rain with
lightning not that far away, and suddenly the question occurs to me,
"What is the difference between an umbrella and a golf club?"

I'll admit, I've not heard more than once of someone killed by lightning
while carrying an umbrella, but that doesn't explain the difference, if
any.

Perhaps you guys know?

Thanks.

I didn't get killed, but one time I got a tingle when I
was walking across a parking lot in the rain, with an
umbrella. I expect the strike was someplace close by
and I got a side effect. It was just small tingle in
my thumb where it pressed against the ferrule at the
base of the shaft.

Bill

You were lucky , local to me , 3 killed in the same strike
http://www.diversed.fsnet.co.uk/grave1.jpg
(sheltering under a tree)

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 04:37:38 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

OT? A couple days ago I'm outside and there's a heavy rain with
lightning not that far away, and suddenly the question occurs to me,
"What is the difference between an umbrella and a golf club?"

When you're playing with that much voltage, the conductivity of the
umbrella or golf club has very little effect.

<http://stormhighway.com/safety.php>
You are in equal danger of a lightning injury outdoors
regardless of whether or not you are standing near, carrying,
or wearing any metal objects. Lightning is a large-scale
event that is not influenced by small ojects on the ground,
so distancing yourself from small metal objects will not
make you safe from lightning. Metal objects like umbrellas,
golf clubs, bicycles and fences will attract a lightning
channel only if the strike is already a few feet away - in
which case you would still experience an injury from being
that close to begin with.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Tim R]

The average lightning strike has traveled 5 miles. It really doesn't care about the last two feet.

Golfers get hit because golf courses are open spaces and they're frequently out in the weather, being fanatical about the sport. Their club is overhead for a tiny fraction of the 3 hours or so it takes to play a round, maybe half a second a shot times 80 shots.

Umbrella holders have them overhead constantly. If that mattered, they should get hit more than golfers. But they're not exposed as many hours, being smart enough to come out of the rain.

 

[micky]

On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 10:04:13 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Jul 2014 04:37:38 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com
wrote:

OT? A couple days ago I'm outside and there's a heavy rain with
lightning not that far away, and suddenly the question occurs to me,
"What is the difference between an umbrella and a golf club?"

When you're playing with that much voltage, the conductivity of the
umbrella or golf club has very little effect.

http://stormhighway.com/safety.php
You are in equal danger of a lightning injury outdoors
regardless of whether or not you are standing near, carrying,
or wearing any metal objects. Lightning is a large-scale
event that is not influenced by small ojects on the ground,
so distancing yourself from small metal objects will not
make you safe from lightning. Metal objects like umbrellas,
golf clubs, bicycles and fences will attract a lightning
channel only if the strike is already a few feet away - in
which case you would still experience an injury from being
that close to begin with.

Thanks.

So if you're willing to stand in the rain in the open space, you might
as well play golf. Hard to beleive after all these years.

"It's true that the chances of you being injured or killed by lightning
are very small." It should be "your being injured..." Should I
discount what he says cause his English is bad? That's my first
reaction.

"Every one who's been accidentally sturck by lightning did nothing to
attract the strike to them." That's not true. Everyone agrees that
standing under a lone tree is dangerous, and I've read in the paper
about people killed while standing under a tree during a lightning
storm. In fact a paragraph below he says it's commonly understood to
stay away from trees, and there is some merit to that. But that it is
dangerous anywhere outside.

Oh, well. I don't play golf anyhow, but I guess umbrellas are safe.

 

[Bill Gill]

On 7/8/2014 7:11 AM, Tim R wrote:

The average lightning strike has traveled 5 miles. It really doesn't care about the last two feet.

Golfers get hit because golf courses are open spaces and they're frequently out in the weather, being fanatical about the sport. Their club is overhead for a tiny fraction of the 3 hours or so it takes to play a round, maybe half a second a shot times 80 shots.

Umbrella holders have them overhead constantly. If that mattered, they should get hit more than golfers. But they're not exposed as many hours, being smart enough to come out of the rain.

Having the club over head doesn't matter all that much. The golfer
is still several feet above the surrounding terrain. So the
golfer kind of represents at thin extrusion from the ground.
Lightning is more likely to hit a thin extrusion than an adjacent
flat surface. That's why they make lightning rods thin and pointed.

Now if you are in a group of golfers you could appoint one as the
designated lightning rod and have him/her hold his/her club
in the air.

Bill

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 04:55:56 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

So if you're willing to stand in the rain in the open space, you might
as well play golf. Hard to beleive after all these years.

Lightning safety tips and facts -- and which activities are more
dangerous than golfing.
<http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2014/06/lightning_safety_tips_and_fact.html>
Soccer is the deadliest sport when it comes to lightning. Of
the sports activities, soccer saw the greatest number of
deaths with 12 (golf had eight). Around the home, yard work,
including mowing the lawn, accounted for 12 fatalities. For
work-related activities, ranching/farming topped the list with
14 deaths.

Ok. Forget about golf, soccer, fishing, yard work, farming, etc, and
you'll probably be safe.

"It's true that the chances of you being injured or killed by lightning
are very small." It should be "your being injured..." Should I
discount what he says cause his English is bad? That's my first
reaction.

A spelling chequer doesn't catch such mistakes.

"Every one who's been accidentally sturck by lightning did nothing to
attract the strike to them." That's not true. Everyone agrees that
standing under a lone tree is dangerous, and I've read in the paper
about people killed while standing under a tree during a lightning
storm. In fact a paragraph below he says it's commonly understood to
stay away from trees, and there is some merit to that. But that it is
dangerous anywhere outside.

Maybe. According the article, water sports are more dangerous than
golfing. Therefore, avoid fishing or swimming in the water hazard.

>Oh, well. I don't play golf anyhow, but I guess umbrellas are safe.

Ummm... speaking of bad grammar. The umbrella is safe. We're talking
about whether you are safe, not the umbrella.

You're safe but only when you're not connected to the umbrella. Given
the choice of lightning hitting you with or without an umbrella, I
would say the odds are about the same.

Actually, your best protection is to get someone else to do something
stupid and wave the a golf club or umbrella around during a storm,
while you watch from a safe distance. Always bring a sacrificial
accomplice or relative during a lightning storm. They take the hit
while you're quite safe.

<http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/safety.htm>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[John Robertson]

On 07/08/2014 5:34 AM, Bill Gill wrote:

On 7/8/2014 7:11 AM, Tim R wrote:
The average lightning strike has traveled 5 miles. It really doesn't
care about the last two feet.

Golfers get hit because golf courses are open spaces and they're
frequently out in the weather, being fanatical about the sport. Their
club is overhead for a tiny fraction of the 3 hours or so it takes to
play a round, maybe half a second a shot times 80 shots.

Umbrella holders have them overhead constantly. If that mattered,
they should get hit more than golfers. But they're not exposed as
many hours, being smart enough to come out of the rain.

Having the club over head doesn't matter all that much. The golfer
is still several feet above the surrounding terrain. So the
golfer kind of represents at thin extrusion from the ground.
Lightning is more likely to hit a thin extrusion than an adjacent
flat surface. That's why they make lightning rods thin and pointed.

Now if you are in a group of golfers you could appoint one as the
designated lightning rod and have him/her hold his/her club
in the air.

Bill

Good thing I don't care for golf - I'm tall and thin...

However my head doesn't come to a point regardless of other opinions!

John ;-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

 

[micky]

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 07:34:04 -0500, Bill Gill <billnews2@cox.net> wrote:

On 7/8/2014 7:11 AM, Tim R wrote:
The average lightning strike has traveled 5 miles. It really doesn't care about the last two feet.

Golfers get hit because golf courses are open spaces and they're frequently out in the weather, being fanatical about the sport. Their club is overhead for a tiny fraction of the 3 hours or so it takes to play a round, maybe half a second a shot times 80 shots.

Umbrella holders have them overhead constantly. If that mattered, they should get hit more than golfers. But they're not exposed as many hours, being smart enough to come out of the rain.

Having the club over head doesn't matter all that much. The golfer
is still several feet above the surrounding terrain. So the
golfer kind of represents at thin extrusion from the ground.
Lightning is more likely to hit a thin extrusion than an adjacent
flat surface. That's why they make lightning rods thin and pointed.

Thin and pointed like the part of my umbrella above the cloth.

Now if you are in a group of golfers you could appoint one as the
designated lightning rod and have him/her hold his/her club
in the air.

I'm care about those golfers, but I care 1000 times as much about the
umbrella holdes.

>Bill

 

[Leif Neland]

Jeff Liebermann kom med fřlgende:

Maybe. According the article, water sports are more dangerous than
golfing. Therefore, avoid fishing or swimming in the water hazard.

And round bales kill more people than sharks.

--
Husk křrelys bagpĺ, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske
beslutning at undlade det.

 

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:50:37 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 04:55:56 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com
wrote:

So if you're willing to stand in the rain in the open space, you might
as well play golf. Hard to beleive after all these years.

Lightning safety tips and facts -- and which activities are more
dangerous than golfing.
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2014/06/lightning_safety_tips_and_fact.html
Soccer is the deadliest sport when it comes to lightning. Of
the sports activities, soccer saw the greatest number of
deaths with 12 (golf had eight). Around the home, yard work,
including mowing the lawn, accounted for 12 fatalities. For
work-related activities, ranching/farming topped the list with
14 deaths.

Ok. Forget about golf, soccer, fishing, yard work, farming, etc, and
you'll probably be safe.

<SNIP>
Years ago, when our spring here in WA State was especially wet, I was
determined to get the garden rototilled and ready for planting. So I
was out in the yard, in the pouring rain, stubbornly tilling the wet
ground. My wife kept yelling at me from the door to come inside or I
might get hit by lightning. There was thunder and lightning going on
but I knew there was no way it would get close to me or hit me.
Finally my wife and one of her clients both yelled at me to come
inside. I took off my hearing protection and walked over to the house,
pissed at being hassled and ready to complain about it. Before I got
the chance to put my foot in my mouth they both informed me that
lightning had struck the chainlink fence 15 feet behind me and didn't
that scare me enough to get inside? I had just been ignoring the
thunder and lightning and had no idea it was such a close strike. I
think I was pretty lucky that day not to have been cooked.
Eric

 

[Phoena J.]

On 07/07/2014 08:37 AM, micky wrote:

"What is the difference between an umbrella and a golf club?"

I asked Renee Everhart that and she told me that a golf club doesn't
open in her twat.

 

[Jon Elson]

etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

Before I got

the chance to put my foot in my mouth they both informed me that
lightning had struck the chainlink fence 15 feet behind me and didn't
that scare me enough to get inside? I had just been ignoring the
thunder and lightning and had no idea it was such a close strike. I
think I was pretty lucky that day not to have been cooked.

Yes, it is a fairly easy to understand phenomenon that lightning that
strikes REALLY close to you doesn't make a lot more noise.
If the strike is essentially end-on to you, all the sound goes
outward from the bolt. What you hear sounds more like a car door
being slammed than a lightning bolt. I assume you were on a
tractor of some sort? That prevented you from getting zapped by
currents in the ground. You really DON'T want to have (both) feet
on the ground anywhere near where lightning touches down.

I've been fairly close to a few lightning strikes (and not operating
noisy equipment at the time) and was interested to observe that while the
strike was really close (visually) it didn't make a huge noise.

Jon

 

On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 21:34:11 -0500, Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com>
wrote:

etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

Before I got
the chance to put my foot in my mouth they both informed me that
lightning had struck the chainlink fence 15 feet behind me and didn't
that scare me enough to get inside? I had just been ignoring the
thunder and lightning and had no idea it was such a close strike. I
think I was pretty lucky that day not to have been cooked.
Yes, it is a fairly easy to understand phenomenon that lightning that
strikes REALLY close to you doesn't make a lot more noise.
If the strike is essentially end-on to you, all the sound goes
outward from the bolt. What you hear sounds more like a car door
being slammed than a lightning bolt. I assume you were on a
tractor of some sort? That prevented you from getting zapped by
currents in the ground. You really DON'T want to have (both) feet
on the ground anywhere near where lightning touches down.

I've been fairly close to a few lightning strikes (and not operating
noisy equipment at the time) and was interested to observe that while the
strike was really close (visually) it didn't make a huge noise.

Jon

I was standing on the muddy ground holding the plastic coated steel
handles on the rototiller. So I think I'm pretty lucky. Pretty stupid
too at the time.
Eric

 

[Jon Elson]

etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

I was standing on the muddy ground holding the plastic coated steel
handles on the rototiller. So I think I'm pretty lucky. Pretty stupid
too at the time.

Oh, WOW! Well, that plastic may have really worked, too! Over a couple
feet of wet ground, you probably don't drop all that much voltage, so
a little insulation might really help. On the other hand, the
electrical potential from a ground strike travels quite far. I had
my hand on a water faucet when we had a ground strike probably 1/4 mile
away, and I got a strong tingle.

Jon

 

On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 16:42:58 -0500, Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu>
wrote:

etpm@whidbey.com wrote:


I was standing on the muddy ground holding the plastic coated steel
handles on the rototiller. So I think I'm pretty lucky. Pretty stupid
too at the time.
Oh, WOW! Well, that plastic may have really worked, too! Over a couple
feet of wet ground, you probably don't drop all that much voltage, so
a little insulation might really help. On the other hand, the
electrical potential from a ground strike travels quite far. I had
my hand on a water faucet when we had a ground strike probably 1/4 mile
away, and I got a strong tingle.

Jon

I can be pretty clueless sometimes. Once I was pulling crab pots from
my 12 foot John boat while my wife watched from the shore. She started
yelling and waving to get my attention but I couldn't hear her. She
wanted to get my attention because a grey whale surfaced on the other
side of the boat, close enough for me to touch, and I didn't notice it
until it started to go under again.
Eric

 

[micky]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2014 08:50:43 -0700, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jul 2014 21:34:11 -0500, Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com
wrote:

etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

Before I got
the chance to put my foot in my mouth they both informed me that
lightning had struck the chainlink fence 15 feet behind me and didn't
that scare me enough to get inside? I had just been ignoring the
thunder and lightning and had no idea it was such a close strike. I
think I was pretty lucky that day not to have been cooked.
Yes, it is a fairly easy to understand phenomenon that lightning that
strikes REALLY close to you doesn't make a lot more noise.
If the strike is essentially end-on to you, all the sound goes
outward from the bolt. What you hear sounds more like a car door
being slammed than a lightning bolt. I assume you were on a
tractor of some sort? That prevented you from getting zapped by
currents in the ground. You really DON'T want to have (both) feet
on the ground anywhere near where lightning touches down.

I've been fairly close to a few lightning strikes (and not operating
noisy equipment at the time) and was interested to observe that while the
strike was really close (visually) it didn't make a huge noise.

Jon
I was standing on the muddy ground holding the plastic coated steel
handles on the rototiller. So I think I'm pretty lucky. Pretty stupid
too at the time.
Eric

That does sound like a close call. You're lucky you're not still
welded to the rototiller.

Did the lightning kill the gray whale?

 

[amdx]

On 7/8/2014 11:50 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 04:55:56 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com
wrote:

So if you're willing to stand in the rain in the open space, you might
as well play golf. Hard to beleive after all these years.

Lightning safety tips and facts -- and which activities are more
dangerous than golfing.
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2014/06/lightning_safety_tips_and_fact.html
Soccer is the deadliest sport when it comes to lightning. Of
the sports activities, soccer saw the greatest number of
deaths with 12 (golf had eight).

Ahh, statistics,
How do we account for deaths per man hour performing the activity?
Seems to be US stats, I would think there is a lot more total
(man hours performing the activity) for golf than soccer. so soccer
would seem to be much more dangerous than the 12 vs 8 shows.
Mikek