OT: Ebay - New paypal conditions - PP hold 30% of your sales

[kreed]

Received this email today

For those that use Ebay to sell:

I dont know how many sellers, particularly low margin, high volume are
going to be able to cope with this:


------------------------------
Your business is important to us, and we are working hard to provide
an easy, fast and secure payment service to you and your customers
while keeping our prices competitive. We're also committed to clearly
communicating changes to our policies and procedures. To that end, we
are writing to inform you of a change to your PayPal account, which
will take effect 30 days from the date of this email.

Beginning 09/30/2009, a small percentage of the total payments you
receive will be held temporarily as a reserve in your account. This
small reserve amount helps to ensure that funds are available to cover
payment reversals or buyer chargebacks, if you do not have a
sufficient PayPal account balance and do not provide the funds to do
so.

A reserve is like a security deposit for your PayPal account and is
standard practice in the payments industry, especially for retail
segments like General where there is a higher-than-average risk of
reversals or chargebacks. This does not mean that you have done
anything wrong. We are requiring a small reserve in your account
because you sell in a category that has a higher risk of reversals and
chargebacks.

Your reserve amount will be 30% of the total payments you receive,
which will be held on a rolling 90-day schedule. That means 30% of the
money you take in each day will be held in your account, and then made
available for withdrawal 90 days later.

For example, if you receive $2,000 every 90 days into your PayPal
account, then a reserve amount of about $1800 would be required on a
rolling 90-day period. In other words, about $20 would be held in
reserve each day, then released 90 days later.

If you are a PayPal Money Market Fund customer, you will still earn
interest on your total balance while your money is in reserve. Click
here for more information or to enroll in the PayPal Money Market
Fund.

We recognize this is a change in the way we do business with you. By
requiring some merchants to reserve money in their accounts, we're
able to lower our own costs. This helps us to continue providing
competitive pricing for all sellers who use PayPal.

If you have any questions about this change, please call us at
1-877-729-7252. We appreciate your business and look forward to a
continued partnership.

Sincerely,

PayPal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Sylvia Else]

And PayPal will be paying interest on this free loan?

Sylvia.

 

[David L. Jones]

kreed wrote:

Received this email today

I didn't get this email, did anyone else?

For those that use Ebay to sell:

I dont know how many sellers, particularly low margin, high volume are
going to be able to cope with this:

It's not just ebay, people use Paypal for all sorts of online businesses
outside of ebay.

------------------------------
Your business is important to us, and we are working hard to provide
an easy, fast and secure payment service to you and your customers
while keeping our prices competitive. We're also committed to clearly
communicating changes to our policies and procedures. To that end, we
are writing to inform you of a change to your PayPal account, which
will take effect 30 days from the date of this email.

Beginning 09/30/2009, a small percentage of the total payments you
receive will be held temporarily as a reserve in your account. This
small reserve amount helps to ensure that funds are available to cover
payment reversals or buyer chargebacks, if you do not have a
sufficient PayPal account balance and do not provide the funds to do
so.

A reserve is like a security deposit for your PayPal account and is
standard practice in the payments industry, especially for retail
segments like General where there is a higher-than-average risk of
reversals or chargebacks. This does not mean that you have done
anything wrong. We are requiring a small reserve in your account
because you sell in a category that has a higher risk of reversals and
chargebacks.

Your reserve amount will be 30% of the total payments you receive,
which will be held on a rolling 90-day schedule. That means 30% of the
money you take in each day will be held in your account, and then made
available for withdrawal 90 days later.

For example, if you receive $2,000 every 90 days into your PayPal
account, then a reserve amount of about $1800 would be required on a
rolling 90-day period. In other words, about $20 would be held in
reserve each day, then released 90 days later.

If you are a PayPal Money Market Fund customer, you will still earn
interest on your total balance while your money is in reserve. Click
here for more information or to enroll in the PayPal Money Market
Fund.

We recognize this is a change in the way we do business with you. By
requiring some merchants to reserve money in their accounts, we're
able to lower our own costs.
This helps us to continue providing
competitive pricing for all sellers who use PayPal.

Bullshit. They make record profits and take large margins already. They are
under no pressure to make this change to keep their costs down to maintain
"competetive" pricing.
Are they going to pass these savings onto us?, that would be a big fat NO I
bet.

If you have any questions about this change, please call us at
1-877-729-7252. We appreciate your business and look forward to a
continued partnership.

Is this PayPal Australia or Paypal US?
The number they give is a US number.

Perhaps the ACCC would like to give them a kick up the arse again?
In the last kerfuffle Ebay snuck through the stupid rule that every seller
MUST accept PayPal, that was bad enough.

Dave.
--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com

 

[David L. Jones]

kreed wrote:

Received this email today

For those that use Ebay to sell:

I dont know how many sellers, particularly low margin, high volume are
going to be able to cope with this:


------------------------------
Your business is important to us, and we are working hard to provide
an easy, fast and secure payment service to you and your customers
while keeping our prices competitive. We're also committed to clearly
communicating changes to our policies and procedures. To that end, we
are writing to inform you of a change to your PayPal account, which
will take effect 30 days from the date of this email.

Beginning 09/30/2009, a small percentage of the total payments you
receive will be held temporarily as a reserve in your account. This
small reserve amount helps to ensure that funds are available to cover
payment reversals or buyer chargebacks, if you do not have a
sufficient PayPal account balance and do not provide the funds to do
so.

A reserve is like a security deposit for your PayPal account and is
standard practice in the payments industry, especially for retail
segments like General where there is a higher-than-average risk of
reversals or chargebacks. This does not mean that you have done
anything wrong. We are requiring a small reserve in your account
because you sell in a category that has a higher risk of reversals and
chargebacks.

Your reserve amount will be 30% of the total payments you receive,
which will be held on a rolling 90-day schedule. That means 30% of the
money you take in each day will be held in your account, and then made
available for withdrawal 90 days later.

For example, if you receive $2,000 every 90 days into your PayPal
account, then a reserve amount of about $1800 would be required on a
rolling 90-day period. In other words, about $20 would be held in
reserve each day, then released 90 days later.

If you are a PayPal Money Market Fund customer, you will still earn
interest on your total balance while your money is in reserve. Click
here for more information or to enroll in the PayPal Money Market
Fund.

We recognize this is a change in the way we do business with you. By
requiring some merchants to reserve money in their accounts, we're
able to lower our own costs. This helps us to continue providing
competitive pricing for all sellers who use PayPal.

If you have any questions about this change, please call us at
1-877-729-7252. We appreciate your business and look forward to a
continued partnership.

Sincerely,

PayPal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like it only applies to some "high risk" accounts:
http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/06/08/why-paypal-is-holding-onto-some-ebay-sellers-money
http://consumerist.com/5334528/paypal-takes-bite-out-of-users-funds-calls-it-rolling-reserve
http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/running_small_business/archives/2009/08/paypals_reserve.html

Dave.
--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com

 

[terryc]

On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:46:10 -0700, Myforwik wrote:

Whats been happening is alot of people are using stolen credit cards to
buy things. The when the true owner tells their bank, the bank simply
find in favour of their card holder and honours none of the payments, so
Paypal has to take the credit back from the sellers account.

Personally I would not use paypal, because this basically means for 3
months any money you get and dissappear, well after you have sent out
the product and have any chance of getting it back.

And it isn't just peeps with "stolen" credit cards either. Some people
just tell their CC provider that they never ordered it and your stuck.







--

Great advances in Debian Linux; post a bug report and get spam in three
days.








--

Great advances in Debian Linux; post a bug report and get spam in three
days.

 

[Myforwik]

On Sep 2, 10:07 am, kreed <kenreed1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Received this email today

For those that use Ebay to sell:

I dont know how many sellers, particularly low margin, high volume are
going to be able to cope with this:

Whats been happening is alot of people are using stolen credit cards
to buy things. The when the true owner tells their bank, the bank
simply find in favour of their card holder and honours none of the
payments, so Paypal has to take the credit back from the sellers
account.

Personally I would not use paypal, because this basically means for 3
months any money you get and dissappear, well after you have sent out
the product and have any chance of getting it back.

 

[Sylvia Else]

terryc wrote:

On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:46:10 -0700, Myforwik wrote:


Whats been happening is alot of people are using stolen credit cards to
buy things. The when the true owner tells their bank, the bank simply
find in favour of their card holder and honours none of the payments, so
Paypal has to take the credit back from the sellers account.

Personally I would not use paypal, because this basically means for 3
months any money you get and dissappear, well after you have sent out
the product and have any chance of getting it back.

And it isn't just peeps with "stolen" credit cards either. Some people
just tell their CC provider that they never ordered it and your stuck.

So you say, "Well, I have evidence that the goods were delivered - where
are they?"

Sylvia.

 

[terryc]

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 16:49:50 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

terryc wrote:
On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:46:10 -0700, Myforwik wrote:


Whats been happening is alot of people are using stolen credit cards
to buy things. The when the true owner tells their bank, the bank
simply find in favour of their card holder and honours none of the
payments, so Paypal has to take the credit back from the sellers
account.

Personally I would not use paypal, because this basically means for 3
months any money you get and dissappear, well after you have sent out
the product and have any chance of getting it back.

And it isn't just peeps with "stolen" credit cards either. Some people
just tell their CC provider that they never ordered it and your stuck.

So you say, "Well, I have evidence that the goods were delivered - where
are they?"

Which is?

hint a few peeps have BTDT and are still out of pocket.

--

Great advances in Debian Linux; post a bug report and get spam in three
days.

 

[Sylvia Else]

terryc wrote:

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 16:49:50 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

terryc wrote:
On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:46:10 -0700, Myforwik wrote:


Whats been happening is alot of people are using stolen credit cards
to buy things. The when the true owner tells their bank, the bank
simply find in favour of their card holder and honours none of the
payments, so Paypal has to take the credit back from the sellers
account.

Personally I would not use paypal, because this basically means for 3
months any money you get and dissappear, well after you have sent out
the product and have any chance of getting it back.
And it isn't just peeps with "stolen" credit cards either. Some people
just tell their CC provider that they never ordered it and your stuck.
So you say, "Well, I have evidence that the goods were delivered - where
are they?"

Which is?

hint a few peeps have BTDT and are still out of pocket.

Depends how far you're willing to pursue it, and whether you have the
skills to do it without employing a lawyer whose costs you will likely
not completely recover.

But if goods have been delivered to the credit card's registered
address, (obtainable via court order if you start proceedings against
the alleged purchaser), haven't been returned, and the addressee denies
having ordered the goods, then it looks like fraud or theft, and the
police could get involved.

Main area of difficult would be on-line download purchases, but at least
then the seller has a marginal cost of almost zero.

Sylvia.

 

[terryc]

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:50:00 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

But if goods have been delivered to the credit card's registered
address, (obtainable via court order if you start proceedings against
the alleged purchaser),

The point is "if", how are you going to prove it?

--

Great advances in Debian Linux; post a bug report and get spam in three
days.

 

[Sylvia Else]

terryc wrote:

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:50:00 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:


But if goods have been delivered to the credit card's registered
address, (obtainable via court order if you start proceedings against
the alleged purchaser),

The point is "if", how are you going to prove it?

In a civil action, evidence of delivery, for example documentation from
Australia Post in respect of a registered parcel, or evidence from a
courier. The proof only needs to be at the level of balance of probability.

For a criminal proceeding more would be needed, but that, together with
the repudiation of the credit card payment based on the item not having
been ordered, might be enough for the police to get a search warrant,
and find the goods. Of course, a good lawyer would laugh at that, but
people so often incriminate themselves when questioned by police.

Sylvia.

 

[terryc]

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 22:29:50 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

terryc wrote:
On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:50:00 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:


But if goods have been delivered to the credit card's registered
address, (obtainable via court order if you start proceedings against
the alleged purchaser),

The point is "if", how are you going to prove it?


In a civil action, evidence of delivery, for example documentation from
Australia Post in respect of a registered parcel, or evidence from a
courier. The proof only needs to be at the level of balance of
probability.

Yawn, theory.

--

Great advances in Debian Linux; post a bug report and get spam in three
days.

 

[KR]

On Sep 2, 10:29 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote:

terryc wrote:
On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:50:00 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote:

But if goods have been delivered to the credit card's registered
address, (obtainable via court order if you start proceedings against
the alleged purchaser),

The point is "if", how are you going to prove it?

In a civil action, evidence of delivery, for example documentation from
Australia Post in respect of a registered parcel, or evidence from a
courier. The proof only needs to be at the level of balance of probability.

For a criminal proceeding more would be needed, but that, together with
the repudiation of the credit card payment based on the item not having
been ordered, might be enough for the police to get a search warrant,
and find the goods. Of course, a good lawyer would laugh at that, but
people so often incriminate themselves when questioned by police.

Sylvia.

Well some seem to know how to keep their mouth shut.

Its scary to think there are laws like this, and they have the nerve
to call something a "star chamber"

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,26011685-3102,00.html

 

[KR]

On Sep 2, 3:02 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:

kreed wrote:
Received this email today

For those that use Ebay to sell:

I dont know how many sellers, particularly low margin, high volume are
going to be able to cope with this:

------------------------------
Your business is important to us, and we are working hard to provide
an easy, fast and secure payment service to you and your customers
while keeping our prices competitive. We're also committed to clearly
communicating changes to our policies and procedures. To that end, we
are writing to inform you of a change to your PayPal account, which
will take effect 30 days from the date of this email.

Beginning 09/30/2009, a small percentage of the total payments you
receive will be held temporarily as a reserve in your account. This
small reserve amount helps to ensure that funds are available to cover
payment reversals or buyer chargebacks, if you do not have a
sufficient PayPal account balance and do not provide the funds to do
so.

A reserve is like a security deposit for your PayPal account and is
standard practice in the payments industry, especially for retail
segments like General where there is a higher-than-average risk of
reversals or chargebacks. This does not mean that you have done
anything wrong. We are requiring a small reserve in your account
because you sell in a category that has a higher risk of reversals and
chargebacks.

Your reserve amount will be 30% of the total payments you receive,
which will be held on a rolling 90-day schedule. That means 30% of the
money you take in each day will be held in your account, and then made
available for withdrawal 90 days later.

For example, if you receive $2,000 every 90 days into your PayPal
account, then a reserve amount of about $1800 would be required on a
rolling 90-day period. In other words, about $20 would be held in
reserve each day, then released 90 days later.

If you are a PayPal Money Market Fund customer, you will still earn
interest on your total balance while your money is in reserve. Click
here for more information or to enroll in the PayPal Money Market
Fund.

We recognize this is a change in the way we do business with you. By
requiring some merchants to reserve money in their accounts, we're
able to lower our own costs. This helps us to continue providing
competitive pricing for all sellers who use PayPal.

If you have any questions about this change, please call us at
1-877-729-7252. We appreciate your business and look forward to a
continued partnership.

Sincerely,

PayPal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like it only applies to some "high risk" accounts:http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/06/08/why-paypal-is-holding-on...http://consumerist.com/5334528/paypal-takes-bite-out-of-users-funds-c...http://www.businessweek..com/smallbiz/running_small_business/archives/...

Dave.
--
===============================================> Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com

Dont know, my Ebay and paypal ? have always been Australian accounts
to the best
of my knowledge.

I havent had any problems with buyers via Paypal that I am aware of,
and certainly dont (and never have) owed them or Ebay any money
outside of their normal monthly account terms.

I think that Ebay its an institution that's had its good years, been
an incredibly popular concept for a time, but bit by bit took
advantage of their customers time and time again, and is now heading
in an inevitable slide towards its death throes, and openly stealing
what it can while it still has some sort of reputation and customer
base left still.
Once they start losing a significant number of sellers, this cuts back
their range, cuts the competition (and competitive pricing), variety
of items etc, and this makes it less and less appealing to buyers.
This vicious cycle continues around and around, down and down.

Same could be said for a lot of businesses in these times.

Sort of like the country of Ebay's birth too.