B
Bob Engelhardt
Guest
Is there still a use for CRT's?
Guest
Sure. Fixing scopes. 
Otherwise not so much.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Otherwise not so much.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
M
Martin Brown
Guest
On 21/05/2019 13:20, pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:
> Sure. Fixing scopes.
Or spare storage capacity for the Manchester Baby - Williams-Kilburn CRT
spots used as a whopping 1024 bits organised as 32 x 32.
There is a runnning and runable replica using some original parts at the
Manchester Museum of Science and Industry.
http://curation.cs.manchester.ac.uk/computer50/www.computer50.org/kgill/williams/display.html
And a fairly decent software emulator here:
https://www.davidsharp.com/baby/
(which will run on modern LCD displays too)
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
> Sure. Fixing scopes.
Or spare storage capacity for the Manchester Baby - Williams-Kilburn CRT
spots used as a whopping 1024 bits organised as 32 x 32.
There is a runnning and runable replica using some original parts at the
Manchester Museum of Science and Industry.
http://curation.cs.manchester.ac.uk/computer50/www.computer50.org/kgill/williams/display.html
And a fairly decent software emulator here:
https://www.davidsharp.com/baby/
(which will run on modern LCD displays too)
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Guest
Bob Engelhardt <BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote in
news:qc0p400j4m@news3.newsguy.com:
Scopes?
Naaah...
<https://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-
forest/2011/09/a_tektronix_oscilloscope_that.html>
I had a Viewsonic that had the highest video bandwidth of any and it
was flat and 22". It was the nicest CRT based PC display that came
out, excluding the overtly priced benq and other medical display
providers, etc. Sort of like audiophools, some niches charge
exhorbitant prices but deliver little extra for it.
Maybe they could switch from cathode rays to a phosphor screen in
a non vacuum fired against by lasers. They could make bulding sized
displays that look better than direct LCD panels.
Naaah... just an extra layer not needed LCD rules!
Hey that display I had sells now refurbed for $1300!
I paid about $350 for mine. I wish I still had it.
news:qc0p400j4m@news3.newsguy.com:
Scopes?
Naaah...
<https://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-
forest/2011/09/a_tektronix_oscilloscope_that.html>
I had a Viewsonic that had the highest video bandwidth of any and it
was flat and 22". It was the nicest CRT based PC display that came
out, excluding the overtly priced benq and other medical display
providers, etc. Sort of like audiophools, some niches charge
exhorbitant prices but deliver little extra for it.
Maybe they could switch from cathode rays to a phosphor screen in
a non vacuum fired against by lasers. They could make bulding sized
displays that look better than direct LCD panels.
Naaah... just an extra layer not needed LCD rules!
Hey that display I had sells now refurbed for $1300!
I paid about $350 for mine. I wish I still had it.
Guest
pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote in news:df14e2dc-46f4-4c49-8326-
a4646d1c2323@googlegroups.com:
Some fighter jets still use CRTs. Japan's f-$ Phantoms, for one.
The A-10s were old cockpit tech too, but likely got upgrades.
For Hollywood...
I used to make the dispays that the first steady-cam operators
used. We made the mil gyros they used before they were cantilever
balanced too.
The displays were using high brightness, daylight viewable 8"
diagonal non-green CRTs that were for F-4 Phantoms.
We designed and made everything, the driver board, the anode
supply, the whole thing, and it had hard camera marker lines
incorporated into the electronics to show the operator the frame
limits. They were mounted down near the ground, right in the view
of the operator, whom watches his footsteps, *and* the little camera
at his feet to keep the shot framed and not fall and bust his ass.
Now, they are modern LED backlit LCD displays and the steadycams
are far better as well. He quit buying our CRT displays nearly two
decades ago.
a4646d1c2323@googlegroups.com:
Sure. Fixing scopes.
Otherwise not so much.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Yeah... not so much any applications to speak of.
Some fighter jets still use CRTs. Japan's f-$ Phantoms, for one.
The A-10s were old cockpit tech too, but likely got upgrades.
For Hollywood...
I used to make the dispays that the first steady-cam operators
used. We made the mil gyros they used before they were cantilever
balanced too.
The displays were using high brightness, daylight viewable 8"
diagonal non-green CRTs that were for F-4 Phantoms.
We designed and made everything, the driver board, the anode
supply, the whole thing, and it had hard camera marker lines
incorporated into the electronics to show the operator the frame
limits. They were mounted down near the ground, right in the view
of the operator, whom watches his footsteps, *and* the little camera
at his feet to keep the shot framed and not fall and bust his ass.
Now, they are modern LED backlit LCD displays and the steadycams
are far better as well. He quit buying our CRT displays nearly two
decades ago.
D
DJ Delorie
Guest
Arcade machine restorations, especially 19" tubes. Even so far as to
remove the tube from a suitable TV and transplant the coils.
remove the tube from a suitable TV and transplant the coils.
J
Jan Panteltje
Guest
On a sunny day (Tue, 21 May 2019 09:26:53 -0400) it happened DJ Delorie
<dj@delorie.com> wrote in <xnblzw2b1e.fsf@delorie.com>:
One of the very interesting things I have worked with was TV system transcoding with CRTs.
This was in the seventies, equipment from Fernsehn GMBH (Germany),
It transcoded US NTSC into the then new European PAL color system.
The way they did that was display the black and white part of the NTSC picture on a green CRT,
and put a 50 Hz BW camera on it.
So NTSC 60 Hz translated to PAL 50 Hz..
they added some electronic vertical flicker compensation too.
Then they took the chrominance part of NTSC and displayed that on a second CRT (also as a green pattern mind you).
An other BW camera scanned that at 50 Hz, electronics decoded the NTSC pattern, and recoded it as PAL combined with
the first BW signal, resulting in PAL color.
I am sure it is patented, had to align that thing at times...
Anyway I would recommend using CRTs in physics classes to show the effect of magnetic and electrostatic fields on electrons (beam defection),
effect of earth magnetic field, basic oscilloscope...
CRTs are wonderful things.
BW (green basically) CRTs were also used in film scanners, vector displays, radar, what not.
Hang on to those!
You can do some very nice things with those.
<dj@delorie.com> wrote in <xnblzw2b1e.fsf@delorie.com>:
One of the very interesting things I have worked with was TV system transcoding with CRTs.
This was in the seventies, equipment from Fernsehn GMBH (Germany),
It transcoded US NTSC into the then new European PAL color system.
The way they did that was display the black and white part of the NTSC picture on a green CRT,
and put a 50 Hz BW camera on it.
So NTSC 60 Hz translated to PAL 50 Hz..
they added some electronic vertical flicker compensation too.
Then they took the chrominance part of NTSC and displayed that on a second CRT (also as a green pattern mind you).
An other BW camera scanned that at 50 Hz, electronics decoded the NTSC pattern, and recoded it as PAL combined with
the first BW signal, resulting in PAL color.
I am sure it is patented, had to align that thing at times...
Anyway I would recommend using CRTs in physics classes to show the effect of magnetic and electrostatic fields on electrons (beam defection),
effect of earth magnetic field, basic oscilloscope...
CRTs are wonderful things.
BW (green basically) CRTs were also used in film scanners, vector displays, radar, what not.
Hang on to those!
You can do some very nice things with those.
T
Tom Gardner
Guest
On 21/05/19 15:09, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Also scan converters.
in my first company, late 70s, the neighbouring company division
built the ASMI (airfield surface movement indicator), a short
range 40GHz/8mm radar.
Remote monitors were conventional TVs, so the best conversion
method was to point a TV camera at the PPI.
The ASMI at Heathrow was on top of the control tower. It
rotated at 70rpm(!), so if the service hatch under it
was opened when it was operating, there was a significant
danger you'd be sucked upwards.
I wonder how many 16yo kids would get into LHR control
tower nowadays.
Also scan converters.
in my first company, late 70s, the neighbouring company division
built the ASMI (airfield surface movement indicator), a short
range 40GHz/8mm radar.
Remote monitors were conventional TVs, so the best conversion
method was to point a TV camera at the PPI.
The ASMI at Heathrow was on top of the control tower. It
rotated at 70rpm(!), so if the service hatch under it
was opened when it was operating, there was a significant
danger you'd be sucked upwards.
I wonder how many 16yo kids would get into LHR control
tower nowadays.
R
Rob
Guest
Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
The question was "is there still use for CRT's".
Nobody in their right mind would still build a system (scan) converter
using a CRT and a camera. The quality was TERRIBLE. They were only
used because there was no other way back then.
The question was "is there still use for CRT's".
Nobody in their right mind would still build a system (scan) converter
using a CRT and a camera. The quality was TERRIBLE. They were only
used because there was no other way back then.
J
Jan Panteltje
Guest
On a sunny day (21 May 2019 17:05:45 GMT) it happened Rob <nomail@example.com>
wrote in <slrnqe8bv9.njm.nomail@xs9.xs4all.nl>:
Not so terrible as you suggest.
First reason the source was often NTSC where N.T.S.C stands for :
Never Twice Same Color
This was due to chroma phase errors, PAL did not have that problem.
So the US sources were often bad bad bad...
Even if it was film it was often not such high quality,
PAL started here in the Netherlands in 1967,
I was there from the beginning, 1968, at NOS (at that time) hired to get - and keep it going.
Lots of stuff was still tubes in those days, until studio Vitus (Bussum) burned down.
The optical scan converter was also used for EBU news exchange.
The alternative at that time (the only one I know about) was the BBC scan converter, a huge beast.
Here some more info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_standards_conversion
Just recently, with QO100 or Es'hail2 I have been recording retro_movies form that satellite at 26 East,
its easy, one button press:
http://panteltje.com/pub/recording_retro_movies.gif
then you get something like this:
http://panteltje.com/pub/retro_movie_shot.gif
all 'merrican movies, almost 24 hours a day (interrupted by hours of commercials), many 'golden oldies',
some in color, and when you see the quality of those days on a large LCD, its funny
http://panteltje.com/pub/retro_movie_color_shot.gif
at least there they got the colors right...
Yet, still some of these movies are cool, I save them, have the recorder (harddisk) running all night
fast forward next day to see if anything I like is there,
More fun than 'CQ CQ oscar100 CQ satellite I am using the Bulgarian transverter and the modified Octagon LNB', a hundred times over.
Nice BW film with Buster Keaton yesterday.. Proves it is not about resolution and not about color.
That is only to sell you a new TV set, just like new versions of MS widows,
just like the moved to DVBT2 here to sell you a new terrestrial box, mm just scrapped the analog ones,
periods between updates get shorter, end of the civilization?
OK.
;-)
OTOH things do get better, I attempted a system converter in FPGA some years ago...
Software .. it did not exist back than, not even in the seventies...
wrote in <slrnqe8bv9.njm.nomail@xs9.xs4all.nl>:
Not so terrible as you suggest.
First reason the source was often NTSC where N.T.S.C stands for :
Never Twice Same Color
This was due to chroma phase errors, PAL did not have that problem.
So the US sources were often bad bad bad...
Even if it was film it was often not such high quality,
PAL started here in the Netherlands in 1967,
I was there from the beginning, 1968, at NOS (at that time) hired to get - and keep it going.
Lots of stuff was still tubes in those days, until studio Vitus (Bussum) burned down.
The optical scan converter was also used for EBU news exchange.
The alternative at that time (the only one I know about) was the BBC scan converter, a huge beast.
Here some more info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_standards_conversion
Just recently, with QO100 or Es'hail2 I have been recording retro_movies form that satellite at 26 East,
its easy, one button press:
http://panteltje.com/pub/recording_retro_movies.gif
then you get something like this:
http://panteltje.com/pub/retro_movie_shot.gif
all 'merrican movies, almost 24 hours a day (interrupted by hours of commercials), many 'golden oldies',
some in color, and when you see the quality of those days on a large LCD, its funny
http://panteltje.com/pub/retro_movie_color_shot.gif
at least there they got the colors right...
Yet, still some of these movies are cool, I save them, have the recorder (harddisk) running all night
fast forward next day to see if anything I like is there,
More fun than 'CQ CQ oscar100 CQ satellite I am using the Bulgarian transverter and the modified Octagon LNB', a hundred times over.
Nice BW film with Buster Keaton yesterday.. Proves it is not about resolution and not about color.
That is only to sell you a new TV set, just like new versions of MS widows,
just like the moved to DVBT2 here to sell you a new terrestrial box, mm just scrapped the analog ones,
periods between updates get shorter, end of the civilization?
OK.
;-)
OTOH things do get better, I attempted a system converter in FPGA some years ago...
Software .. it did not exist back than, not even in the seventies...
J
Jan Panteltje
Guest
On a sunny day (Tue, 21 May 2019 14:46:34 -0400) it happened bitrex
<user@example.net> wrote in <eIXEE.28751$A74.25591@fx12.iad>:
Scope TV!
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
<user@example.net> wrote in <eIXEE.28751$A74.25591@fx12.iad>:
Scope TV!
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
B
bitrex
Guest
On 5/21/19 7:57 AM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
> Is there still a use for CRT's?
Scope clock:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goLIP8AaYb0>
> Is there still a use for CRT's?
Scope clock:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goLIP8AaYb0>
C
Cursitor Doom
Guest
On Tue, 21 May 2019 14:09:03 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> CRTs are wonderful things.
They are indeed. EHT notwithstanding. So we're all agreed, then. CRTs are
here to stay.
--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.
> CRTs are wonderful things.
They are indeed. EHT notwithstanding. So we're all agreed, then. CRTs are
here to stay.
--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.
B
bitrex
Guest
On 5/21/19 3:18 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Nice! Yeah there are plenty of uses for them!
Just not ones that would make anyone any money, unfortunately.
Nice! Yeah there are plenty of uses for them!
Just not ones that would make anyone any money, unfortunately.
S
Sjouke Burry
Guest
On 21.05.19 13:57, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
IIyama Vision Master Pro 410.
Better picture then the flatscreens around me.
Better survival time too.
Yes.I amreading this message on a crt, with an excellent black/white ratio.
IIyama Vision Master Pro 410.
Better picture then the flatscreens around me.
Better survival time too.
P
Phil Allison
Guest
Bob Engelhardt wrote:
** CRTs using electrostatic deflection are found in analogue scopes.
Older TV sets used "picture tubes" employing magnetic deflection - they are also called CRTs by some.
What is your Q about ?
...... Phil
** CRTs using electrostatic deflection are found in analogue scopes.
Older TV sets used "picture tubes" employing magnetic deflection - they are also called CRTs by some.
What is your Q about ?
...... Phil
T
Tim Williams
Guest
"Bob Engelhardt" <BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:qc0p400j4m@news3.newsguy.com...
> Is there still a use for CRT's?
Yes. They remain in demand among console gamers -- lots of old games are
still played, on original hardware, and most panel TVs have terrible
latency.
There's probably tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of "let's play"-ers and
speedrunners and "classic" gamers out there, hardly a large market by the
game industry's standards, but probably a sizable portion of the CRT resale
market.
Trinitron monitors still command reasonable prices on eBay. I've always
been tempted to get a 2048x1536x85Hz beast, but they don't come up all that
often and typically sell for $250.
Tim
--
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design
Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/
news:qc0p400j4m@news3.newsguy.com...
> Is there still a use for CRT's?
Yes. They remain in demand among console gamers -- lots of old games are
still played, on original hardware, and most panel TVs have terrible
latency.
There's probably tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of "let's play"-ers and
speedrunners and "classic" gamers out there, hardly a large market by the
game industry's standards, but probably a sizable portion of the CRT resale
market.
Trinitron monitors still command reasonable prices on eBay. I've always
been tempted to get a 2048x1536x85Hz beast, but they don't come up all that
often and typically sell for $250.
Tim
--
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design
Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Tue, 21 May 2019 07:57:52 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
<BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:
>Is there still a use for CRT's?
No.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
<BobEngelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:
>Is there still a use for CRT's?
No.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Guest
DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> wrote in news:xnblzw2b1e.fsf@delorie.com:
There are flat screens and PC with emulators to do that. Not
restore... UPGRADE.
I can play pacman or any of hundreds of other upright arcade games on
my 55" no problem. And it is the EXACT same game code, and is a
perfectly emulated process.
There are flat screens and PC with emulators to do that. Not
restore... UPGRADE.
I can play pacman or any of hundreds of other upright arcade games on
my 55" no problem. And it is the EXACT same game code, and is a
perfectly emulated process.
Guest
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote in
news:ds49ee1spifmaq3hsjco80s1qquc2tr7nf@4ax.com:
Sure there is. A you tube video of someone smashing an old CRT tube
over your head would go viral instantly. Especially if it was titled
"So There IS Still A Use For Old CRT Displays!"
news:ds49ee1spifmaq3hsjco80s1qquc2tr7nf@4ax.com:
Sure there is. A you tube video of someone smashing an old CRT tube
over your head would go viral instantly. Especially if it was titled
"So There IS Still A Use For Old CRT Displays!"