OT: COVID experiences...

[Fred Bloggs]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 2:03:26 AM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:

On 07/19/2022 08:53 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:37:59 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 07/19/2022 05:40 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/19/2022 3:54 PM, Dave Platt wrote:
In article <rc7edh1icl9c1v8ev...@4ax.com>,
Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote:

The vaccines are not risk-free themselves, especially for young males.

Hmm. Why do you say this? I don\'t think that the young are at more
risk from vaccination, but they do appear to be at less risk from
COVID. This is the kind of thing that the FDA and CDC agonize over,
mainly for a well-founded fear of Congress.

The mRNA vaccines seem to be associated with an increased incidence of
myocarditis and pericarditis, affecting young males more than others..
If I\'m reading the report in The Lancet properly, the excess rate
is about 20 per million doses administered. Most cases are reported
as being mild, with no lasting effects on quality of life.

So, \"the vaccines are not risk-free\" is an accurate description.

However, according to a CDC study earlier this year, the risk of
cardiac issues after a COVID infection is higher - sometimes a good
deal higher.

\"Among teenage boys, the rate of myocarditis or pericarditis after
infection was at least 50 cases per 100,000 people, compared to at
least 22 cases per 100,000 after the second vaccine dose. The overall
risk of heart conditions after Covid infection was up to 5.6 times
higher compared to the second vaccine dose. The risk was up to 69
times higher after infection compared to the first shot.\"

\"Overall, the risk of a heart issue after Covid infection was anywhere
from 2 to 115 times higher compared to vaccination depending on age,
gender and the dose administered.\"

(both from CNBC summary of the CDC report).

So, \"not taking the vaccine\" is also not risk-free (for this very same
issue). In fact it appears to be significantly riskier for your heart -
and that\'s neglecting all of the other nasty things COVID infection can
do to your body.

Not insignificantly, getting a vaccine doesn\'t pose any increased risk
to those around you.

OTOH, catching COVID puts those around you (even casually) at increased
risk.

[Of course, if you don\'t give a rat\'s ass about others, then you can
ignore this additional downside to non-vaccination]

The only people I know personally that were diagnosed with covid were
also fully vaccinated and boosted. That also appears to be the case for
those high profile enough to attract media attention.

Right- they discovered early on that the vaccine does not prevent infection, so they moved the goal posts to serious disease requiring hospitalization.
\'You are still susceptible but it probably won\'t be as bad\' isn\'t much
of a selling point. Pre-vaccine they tested the inmates at Marion
Correctional and found over 2000 were positive, most of whom were very
surprised. The follow-up reports were hard to find but iirc there were 7
deaths in an overcrowded situation that should have been a recipe for
disaster.

They had a big problem with this massively expensive multi-vaccine development not meeting the initial FDA effectiveness requirements for approval. Once they changed the threshold for effectiveness to prevents disease serious enough to require hospitalization, all the vaccines effectiveness performance shot up to 95%- except the viral vector crap like J&J and AstraZeneca.

If Fauci was infected, anybody can be infected. He was vaccinated with Moderna. The news may have mentioned that he received a monoclonal antibody treatment- don\'t recall. When you head up NIAID, you have access to quite a few treatment options.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 4:03:26 PM UTC+10, rbowman wrote:

On 07/19/2022 08:53 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:37:59 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 07/19/2022 05:40 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/19/2022 3:54 PM, Dave Platt wrote:
In article <rc7edh1icl9c1v8ev...@4ax.com>,
Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote:

<snip>

Right- they discovered early on that the vaccine does not prevent infection, so they moved the goal posts to serious disease requiring hospitalization.

\'You are still susceptible but it probably won\'t be as bad\' isn\'t much of a selling point.

You are much less likely to end up dead puts it more accurately, and you do need to throw in the fact that you are less likely to infect other people if you do get infected after you have been vaccinated.

Treating vaccination as something that needs to be sold to reluctant customers may fit the private enterprise mind-set, but the public health issue is all about getting as many people as possible vaccinated, and giving them as little opportunity as possible to express any irrational reluctance they may feel.

> Pre-vaccine they tested the inmates at Marion Correctional and found over 2000 were positive, most of whom were very surprised. The follow-up reports were hard to find but iirc there were 7 deaths in an overcrowded situation that should have been a recipe for disaster.

Why? If the inmates had been elderly and sick there would have been a lot more deaths, but 7 out of 2000 is 0.35% which is not expected for the 20 to 30 year-old age bracket.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Don Y]

On 7/20/2022 6:39 AM, rbowman wrote:

On 07/20/2022 02:33 AM, Don Y wrote:
So, the restaurants sat empty -- but staffed! Ditto the nail salons, hair
dressers, etc. I\'m sure they were GLAD they could keep accumulating
operating expenses when everyone else had other plans! <rolls eyes

Most of the restaurants here survived.

I have no idea how they fared, here. But, given that ~25% of most fail,
it wouldn\'t likely be seen as a real \"loss\". We rarely visit restaurants
but made several trips for BBQ take out. And, based on those results,
decided we won\'t be doing that again!

There was a bit of irony when you had to
be masked for the 30\' from the door to the table and then off with the masks.

Here, they spaced out tables and reduced occupancy. As eating outdoors is
practical most of the year (save Monsoon), it\'s not hard to arrange for
\"safer\" dining.

Some were strictly off premises. I was annoyed when my favorite bakery required
you to call to place your order and I didn\'t have my phone. I guess they put
your brownies in a bag and pushed it out the door with a long stick.

Most stores offered roadside pickup. Even the hummingbird feeder that
we purchased was brought out to our car, for us.

NYC was different. My ex\'s favorite restaurant went under as did a lot of
others. She survived on DoorDash or the equivalent. Strictly credit card, the
courier left your chow in the lobby, called you, and disappeared. You masked
up, went down, and got your meal. Great life. We always talked several times a
year but the phone calls became more frequent as she went stir crazy.

Yeah, I found this amusing. The same folks who would scarcely take their
nose out of their phone DESPITE a \"live human\" standing next to them
BEFORE the pandemic suddenly *craved* that contact!

Maybe it\'s just their way of avoiding wearing makeup?? <grin

One article suggested they\'ve come to the point where they feel naked without a
mask sort of like the last century where a woman wouldn\'t go out without some
sort of head covering.

Dunno. I suspect more concern for disease. Now, masks are reasonably scarce.
OTOH, I\'ve noticed that it helps with my \"seasonal\" allergies (which seem
to occur in all five seasons!). But, I can\'t discipline myself to wear
one while walking the neighborhood or working in the yard (which is how I
see the difference in \"performance\")

Even medical providers just *inquire* as to your status -- mainly so
they can justify removing their masks during appointments.

More irony. My dentist requires a mask and the receptionist takes you
temperature. Then you fill out a questionnaire even if you were there the day
before. Then you proceed to the torture chamber and remove the mask obviously.

My dentist shut down all aerosol generating activities. E.g., cleanings
couldn\'t use cavitron *nor* polishing; everything had to be done by handwork.
Fillings only on an emergency basis, etc.

You waited in your vehicle instead of in the waiting room -- and someone
came out to fetch you when they were ready for you.

[Though masks are still required by *all* medical establishments. Gee,
do you think they know something that the grocery stores and restaurants
*don\'t*?]

It varies. I had two post-op appointments with the surgeon who nailed my femur.
He\'s in a rather busy orthopedic center and a mask was required when I went to
the first. By the time of the follow up 30 days later the only masks in site
were a few patients who chose to wear one. None of the staff was masked.

My primary physician still required masking.

It is only recently that ONE \"family member\" can accompany a pt. And, they
can\'t wait in the waiting room; wait elsewhere and they\'ll fetch you when
your pt is called in.

In a sense, many of the offices are now operating more efficiently.
Pts don\'t queue up in the waiting room ahead of time (\"Do NOT arrive
more than 15 minutes before your apppointment\"). I suspect they are
now taking a more realistic approach to appt scheduling -- leaving some
slop in the schedule so delays don\'t lead to a backlog of pts waiting.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 10:39:29 AM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 4:03:26 PM UTC+10, rbowman wrote:
On 07/19/2022 08:53 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:37:59 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 07/19/2022 05:40 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/19/2022 3:54 PM, Dave Platt wrote:
In article <rc7edh1icl9c1v8ev...@4ax.com>,
Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote:
snip
Right- they discovered early on that the vaccine does not prevent infection, so they moved the goal posts to serious disease requiring hospitalization.

\'You are still susceptible but it probably won\'t be as bad\' isn\'t much of a selling point.
You are much less likely to end up dead puts it more accurately, and you do need to throw in the fact that you are less likely to infect other people if you do get infected after you have been vaccinated.

Treating vaccination as something that needs to be sold to reluctant customers may fit the private enterprise mind-set, but the public health issue is all about getting as many people as possible vaccinated, and giving them as little opportunity as possible to express any irrational reluctance they may feel.

The public health issue was relieving the strain on a failing hospital system. Many people who ordinarily would be admitted to the hospital for other conditions were turned away, surgeries were postponed indefinitely, diagnostic testing was all but discontinued, standard operating procedures for treatment and triage were rewritten and became quite extreme in hard hit areas.. It is estimated that excess deaths due to cancer alone in U.S. for year 2021 were 38,000. The operative word is excess. Damage to the health care system was enormous and quite a bit of it was undocumented because people simply did not seek care.

Pre-vaccine they tested the inmates at Marion Correctional and found over 2000 were positive, most of whom were very surprised. The follow-up reports were hard to find but iirc there were 7 deaths in an overcrowded situation that should have been a recipe for disaster.
Why? If the inmates had been elderly and sick there would have been a lot more deaths, but 7 out of 2000 is 0.35% which is not expected for the 20 to 30 year-old age bracket.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Martin Brown]

On 20/07/2022 15:39, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 4:03:26 PM UTC+10, rbowman wrote:
On 07/19/2022 08:53 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:37:59 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 07/19/2022 05:40 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/19/2022 3:54 PM, Dave Platt wrote:
In article <rc7edh1icl9c1v8ev...@4ax.com>, Joe Gwinn
joeg...@comcast.net> wrote:

snip

Right- they discovered early on that the vaccine does not prevent
infection, so they moved the goal posts to serious disease
requiring hospitalization.

\'You are still susceptible but it probably won\'t be as bad\' isn\'t
much of a selling point.

You are much less likely to end up dead puts it more accurately, and
you do need to throw in the fact that you are less likely to infect
other people if you do get infected after you have been vaccinated.

That still isn\'t at all clear. UK has nearly 95% first dose with at
least one jab and a recalcitrant 5% still hardline refuseniks.

The current wave of BA.4 and BA.5 is sufficiently infectious in
vaccinated people that 1:18 people have Covid right *now* which is
almost as high as in the initial Omicron wave and it is still rising
(and that is in the middle of summer when respiratory diseases normally
disappear here with warm dry summer weather).

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/covid-19-variants-identified-in-the-uk-latest-updates

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

By comparison the first wave largely faded out during the first summer
(except in a handful of unlucky places) and the second wave also. The
behaviour of Omicron subvariants now is qualitatively different to
previous waves and it continues to become ever more infectious.

It must eventually hit some limit but BA.4 has 19% faster growth than
BA.2 and BA.5 is 35% faster so looks like it will win out (unless and
until BA.6 or some even more infectious new Greek letter comes along).

Treating vaccination as something that needs to be sold to reluctant
customers may fit the private enterprise mind-set, but the public
health issue is all about getting as many people as possible
vaccinated, and giving them as little opportunity as possible to
express any irrational reluctance they may feel.

UK has had a pretty successful vaccine roll out but the pandemic is not
really under control so much as no longer killing quite so many people.
This is in part because those most susceptible to harm are already dead!

I know people who have had two different strains in relatively quick
succession. It is endemic now and community transmission is rapid.

The vaccine buys you a factor of at least 10 protection against dying of
Covid if you get infected which has to be worthwhile.

It isn\'t if you catch Covid any more but *when* you next catch it.

Pre-vaccine they tested the inmates at Marion Correctional and
found over 2000 were positive, most of whom were very surprised.
The follow-up reports were hard to find but iirc there were 7
deaths in an overcrowded situation that should have been a recipe
for disaster.

Why? If the inmates had been elderly and sick there would have been a
lot more deaths, but 7 out of 2000 is 0.35% which is not expected for
the 20 to 30 year-old age bracket.

Age is the single most important factor followed by the most common
co-morbidities like diabetes, hypertension and obesity. Being male also
roughly doubles your chances of coming to harm from Covid.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34449622/

Around 90% of victims had at least one co-morbidity.

The average number of co-morbidities of those who have died is 2.5.

The statistic that the UK science communicators used that puts it into
context is that having Covid is roughly equivalent to taking your annual
age related risk of dying that year in a single hit.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[amdx]

 My experience so far: My son came home from work sic a week ago
Wednesday, a 3 month expired test, showed a week positive.
 Next day a new test was full on positive. His sore throat was better,
he said 1-1/2 of 10. He has coughed a few times, but very little.
He went back to work after 4 days, Corp. policy is 5 days off and 5 days
with a mask. The day he went back to work several people
were off with Covid. My son lives with mom and dad, we are 63 and 67, we
took no precautions other than not touching him or handling what he handled.
We have separate computers desks, 6 ft from each other and spend hours
sitting near each other. 8 days of son with known symptoms and mom and
dad are still fine. Wife and Son got J&J, I got
Moderna  (2)  and  booster (1). I have been taking a multivitamin,
Vitamin D, Zinc/vitamin C, Quercetin, Lactoferrin, L-Citrulline and
metformin, (I\'m not diabetic, it has been found to help)
I still have my fingers crossed.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 11:28:15 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:

On 20/07/2022 15:39, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 4:03:26 PM UTC+10, rbowman wrote:
On 07/19/2022 08:53 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:37:59 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 07/19/2022 05:40 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/19/2022 3:54 PM, Dave Platt wrote:
In article <rc7edh1icl9c1v8ev...@4ax.com>, Joe Gwinn
joeg...@comcast.net> wrote:

snip

Right- they discovered early on that the vaccine does not prevent
infection, so they moved the goal posts to serious disease
requiring hospitalization.

\'You are still susceptible but it probably won\'t be as bad\' isn\'t
much of a selling point.

You are much less likely to end up dead puts it more accurately, and
you do need to throw in the fact that you are less likely to infect
other people if you do get infected after you have been vaccinated.
That still isn\'t at all clear. UK has nearly 95% first dose with at
least one jab and a recalcitrant 5% still hardline refuseniks.

The current wave of BA.4 and BA.5 is sufficiently infectious in
vaccinated people that 1:18 people have Covid right *now* which is
almost as high as in the initial Omicron wave and it is still rising
(and that is in the middle of summer when respiratory diseases normally
disappear here with warm dry summer weather).

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/covid-19-variants-identified-in-the-uk-latest-updates

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

By comparison the first wave largely faded out during the first summer
(except in a handful of unlucky places) and the second wave also. The
behaviour of Omicron subvariants now is qualitatively different to
previous waves and it continues to become ever more infectious.

It must eventually hit some limit but BA.4 has 19% faster growth than
BA.2 and BA.5 is 35% faster so looks like it will win out (unless and
until BA.6 or some even more infectious new Greek letter comes along).

Treating vaccination as something that needs to be sold to reluctant
customers may fit the private enterprise mind-set, but the public
health issue is all about getting as many people as possible
vaccinated, and giving them as little opportunity as possible to
express any irrational reluctance they may feel.
UK has had a pretty successful vaccine roll out but the pandemic is not
really under control so much as no longer killing quite so many people.
This is in part because those most susceptible to harm are already dead!

I know people who have had two different strains in relatively quick
succession. It is endemic now and community transmission is rapid.

The vaccine buys you a factor of at least 10 protection against dying of
Covid if you get infected which has to be worthwhile.

It isn\'t if you catch Covid any more but *when* you next catch it.
Pre-vaccine they tested the inmates at Marion Correctional and
found over 2000 were positive, most of whom were very surprised.
The follow-up reports were hard to find but iirc there were 7
deaths in an overcrowded situation that should have been a recipe
for disaster.

Why? If the inmates had been elderly and sick there would have been a
lot more deaths, but 7 out of 2000 is 0.35% which is not expected for
the 20 to 30 year-old age bracket.
Age is the single most important factor followed by the most common
co-morbidities like diabetes, hypertension and obesity. Being male also
roughly doubles your chances of coming to harm from Covid.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34449622/

Around 90% of victims had at least one co-morbidity.

The average number of co-morbidities of those who have died is 2.5.

The statistic that the UK science communicators used that puts it into
context is that having Covid is roughly equivalent to taking your annual
age related risk of dying that year in a single hit.

That\'s a bunch of useless macro-statistics babble.

Very recent news release of breakthrough research on what it takes to actually keep people alive:

https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/coronavirus/article-712469

\"Results
Estimated high-shear BV (eHSBV) and estimated low-shear BV were associated with increased in-hospital mortality. One-centipoise increases in eHSBV and estimated low-shear BV were associated with a 36.0% and 7.0% increase in death, respectively (P < 0.001). Compared with participants in the lowest quartile of eHSBV, those in the highest quartile of eHSBV had higher mortality (adjusted HR: 1.53; 95% CI: 1.27-1.84). The association was consistent among multiple subgroups, notably among patients without any comorbidities (adjusted HR: 1.69; 95% CI: 1.28-2.22).\"

https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2022.04.060

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 3:23:18 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 11:28:15 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 20/07/2022 15:39, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 4:03:26 PM UTC+10, rbowman wrote:
On 07/19/2022 08:53 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:37:59 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 07/19/2022 05:40 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/19/2022 3:54 PM, Dave Platt wrote:
In article <rc7edh1icl9c1v8ev...@4ax.com>, Joe Gwinn
joeg...@comcast.net> wrote:

<snip>

> That\'s a bunch of useless macro-statistics babble.

Fred can\'t follow what it was saying.

Very recent news release of breakthrough research on what it takes to actually keep people alive:

https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/coronavirus/article-712469

\"Results
Estimated high-shear BV (eHSBV) and estimated low-shear BV were associated with increased in-hospital mortality. One-centipoise increases in eHSBV and estimated low-shear BV were associated with a 36.0% and 7.0% increase in death, respectively (P < 0.001). Compared with participants in the lowest quartile of eHSBV, those in the highest quartile of eHSBV had higher mortality (adjusted HR: 1.53; 95% CI: 1.27-1.84). The association was consistent among multiple subgroups, notably among patients without any comorbidities (adjusted HR: 1.69; 95% CI: 1.28-2.22).\"

https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2022.04.060

Fred hasn\'t noticed that correlation doesn\'t indicate causation. This research shows a correlation between blood viscosity and survival, but doesn\'t propose any scheme to lower whole blood viscosity or demonstrate that doing this would improve patient survival.

It\'s standard medical mindless observation. They publish and the patients keep on perishing.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[rbowman]

On 07/20/2022 09:13 AM, Don Y wrote:

My dentist shut down all aerosol generating activities. E.g., cleanings
couldn\'t use cavitron *nor* polishing; everything had to be done by
handwork.
Fillings only on an emergency basis, etc.

You waited in your vehicle instead of in the waiting room -- and someone
came out to fetch you when they were ready for you.

Mine tried to schedule so there was only one person in the waiting room,
and don\'t come in until your appointment. The major problem was the lack
of six month old magazines. I was happy to see that while Boys Life was
more technically oriented the same old bad jokes persist but they were
all removed.

Polishing still goes on. I drink enough coffee that they always dip
into the flour of pumice. It\'s easy to see the spread with that crap.

She dropped the cavitrons long before covid. I never asked why since I
don\'t miss them at all. I haven\'t had cause to have my hearing tested
but I still have some high frequency response. Doesn\'t help that we used
them for ultrasonically welding plastic shell. One doesn\'t forget that
sound.

 

[Don Y]

On 7/20/2022 9:25 PM, rbowman wrote:

On 07/20/2022 09:13 AM, Don Y wrote:
My dentist shut down all aerosol generating activities. E.g., cleanings
couldn\'t use cavitron *nor* polishing; everything had to be done by
handwork.
Fillings only on an emergency basis, etc.

You waited in your vehicle instead of in the waiting room -- and someone
came out to fetch you when they were ready for you.

Mine tried to schedule so there was only one person in the waiting room, and
don\'t come in until your appointment. The major problem was the lack of six
month old magazines. I was happy to see that while Boys Life was more
technically oriented the same old bad jokes persist but they were all removed.

Dentist is incredibly punctual. If you have a 10:00 appt, then you\'ll
be seen *at* 10:00! So, the number of folks potentially waiting is
limited to the number of hygenists + 1 (for the dentist). If you\'re
smart, you\'ll arrange to arrive coincident with your appt.

Doctors, OTOH, are notoriously late. So, number of practitioners at
the site multiplied by some small factor (related to how many of them
are \"running late\")

4:20PM appt, today. Got out of there at 5:58P.

Polishing still goes on. I drink enough coffee that they always dip into the
flour of pumice. It\'s easy to see the spread with that crap.

They, now, have restored the \"high aerosol\" procedures. Hygenist uses
cavitron (on me) due to my heavy *tea* drinking (basically, nothing
*but* tea!). So, even with aggressive toothpastes and frequent
brushing, there\'s a shitload of stain in places the brush can\'t reach
(e.g., buccal/facial are pearly white but lingual always \"need work\")

She dropped the cavitrons long before covid. I never asked why since I don\'t
miss them at all. I haven\'t had cause to have my hearing tested but I still
have some high frequency response. Doesn\'t help that we used them for
ultrasonically welding plastic shell. One doesn\'t forget that sound.

Yeah, the sound seems to originate *between* the ears. \"You can hear that?\"
\"Hell yeah! Can\'t *you*??!\"

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 1:43:26 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

On 7/20/2022 9:25 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/20/2022 09:13 AM, Don Y wrote:
My dentist shut down all aerosol generating activities. E.g., cleanings
couldn\'t use cavitron *nor* polishing; everything had to be done by
handwork.
Fillings only on an emergency basis, etc.

You waited in your vehicle instead of in the waiting room -- and someone
came out to fetch you when they were ready for you.

Mine tried to schedule so there was only one person in the waiting room, and
don\'t come in until your appointment. The major problem was the lack of six
month old magazines. I was happy to see that while Boys Life was more
technically oriented the same old bad jokes persist but they were all removed.
Dentist is incredibly punctual. If you have a 10:00 appt, then you\'ll
be seen *at* 10:00! So, the number of folks potentially waiting is
limited to the number of hygenists + 1 (for the dentist). If you\'re
smart, you\'ll arrange to arrive coincident with your appt.

Doctors, OTOH, are notoriously late. So, number of practitioners at
the site multiplied by some small factor (related to how many of them
are \"running late\")

That\'s because doctors are not running an assembly line and it\'s impossible to predict how long is required for each patient. A late doctor is a good caregiver.

4:20PM appt, today. Got out of there at 5:58P.
Polishing still goes on. I drink enough coffee that they always dip into the
flour of pumice. It\'s easy to see the spread with that crap.
They, now, have restored the \"high aerosol\" procedures. Hygenist uses
cavitron (on me) due to my heavy *tea* drinking (basically, nothing
*but* tea!). So, even with aggressive toothpastes and frequent
brushing, there\'s a shitload of stain in places the brush can\'t reach
(e.g., buccal/facial are pearly white but lingual always \"need work\")
She dropped the cavitrons long before covid. I never asked why since I don\'t
miss them at all. I haven\'t had cause to have my hearing tested but I still
have some high frequency response. Doesn\'t help that we used them for
ultrasonically welding plastic shell. One doesn\'t forget that sound.
Yeah, the sound seems to originate *between* the ears. \"You can hear that?\"
\"Hell yeah! Can\'t *you*??!\"

 

[Don Y]

On 7/21/2022 7:17 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 1:43:26 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

Doctors, OTOH, are notoriously late. So, number of practitioners at
the site multiplied by some small factor (related to how many of them
are \"running late\")

That\'s because doctors are not running an assembly line and it\'s impossible
to predict how long is required for each patient. A late doctor is a good caregiver.

\"good caregiver\" is a non sequitur. A doctor who manages his time poorly
is also late and need not be \"good\".

How that tardiness is *managed* is significant. Chances are, he\'s seeing the
same set of patients day after day, year after year. He should have
LEARNED how much time patients require, on average -- and in specifics!

[My PCP allocates a full hour to see me. Not because my needs are greater
than those of other pts but, rather, because he knows we\'ll spend a fair
bit of time \"talking shop\". \"Take two and call me in the morning\" won\'t
cut it. And, he actually enjoys having a pt that is engaged in his own
care and eager to understand how the Dx is made, the treatment plan
devised, etc.]

If my dentist has to address a dental emergency, I\'ll be notified
of that and my appointment rescheduled -- even if only \"can you come
in an hour later?\".

I had an outpatient surgery scheduled, many years ago. I arranged to
adjust my lunch break to coincide with the SHORT appointment. KNOWING that
\"shit happens\", I called the doctor\'s office just prior to departing for
my appointment.

\"Is the doctor running on-time? If not, I can come a bit later...\"

\"Yes, we\'ll see you at 1:00!\" (ten minutes from now)

I sat in the waiting room until 2:00 -- then left.

\"But you can\'t leave! You\'re next!\"

\"I called an hour and ten minutes ago offering to delay my
arrival to coincide with his slipped schedule. Did he
suddenly find himself an hour late in the ten minutes
it took me to drive here? Look on the bright side, the
time he WON\'T spend taking care of me will allow him to
get back on schedule for those who follow me!\"

[Lots of doctors! I can find another to deal with this
by week\'s end...]

 

[rbowman]

On 07/20/2022 11:43 PM, Don Y wrote:

They, now, have restored the \"high aerosol\" procedures. Hygenist uses
cavitron (on me) due to my heavy *tea* drinking (basically, nothing
*but* tea!). So, even with aggressive toothpastes and frequent
brushing, there\'s a shitload of stain in places the brush can\'t reach
(e.g., buccal/facial are pearly white but lingual always \"need work\")

Yeah. I\'m not known for big toothy grins so staining isn\'t a big issue
for me. I definitely don\'t stick a dental mirror in my mouth to examine
the lower lingual surface she obsesses about. Still I\'ve reached mid-70s
without sleeping with my teeth in a jar so I let her do her thing.

 

[Don Y]

On 7/21/2022 10:03 PM, rbowman wrote:

On 07/20/2022 11:43 PM, Don Y wrote:
They, now, have restored the \"high aerosol\" procedures. Hygenist uses
cavitron (on me) due to my heavy *tea* drinking (basically, nothing
*but* tea!). So, even with aggressive toothpastes and frequent
brushing, there\'s a shitload of stain in places the brush can\'t reach
(e.g., buccal/facial are pearly white but lingual always \"need work\")

Yeah. I\'m not known for big toothy grins so staining isn\'t a big issue for me.

I\'ve been accused of smiling too much. <shrug>

But, the facial sides of the teeth are always pearly white. You\'d
have to look *inside* my mouth to see the stain. Despite using
a very abrasive \"whitening\" toothpaste and electric brush, it\'s
near impossible to keep them clean (even on a 4 month schedule).

I definitely don\'t stick a dental mirror in my mouth to examine the lower
lingual surface she obsesses about. Still I\'ve reached mid-70s without sleeping
with my teeth in a jar so I let her do her thing.

I drink a lot of tea. A *lot* (to the tune of a gallon or more, daily...
EVERY day). My preferred tea is pu-erh -- delightfully dark and flavorful.
But, stains your teeth if you just LOOK at a cup of it!

Hygenist has made it abundantly clear that the degree of my \"comfort\"
(discomfort?) while seated in her chair will be directly related to
how much of said tea I consume.

So, I now limit myself to green tea.

But, even that, in the quantities that I consume, stains horribly!
She suggests drinking *water*! Christ, how boring is that??!

 

[rbowman]

On 07/21/2022 11:56 PM, Don Y wrote:

I drink a lot of tea. A *lot* (to the tune of a gallon or more, daily...
EVERY day). My preferred tea is pu-erh -- delightfully dark and flavorful.
But, stains your teeth if you just LOOK at a cup of it!

The worst thing I\'ve found is German style red cabbage. I think the
vinegar acts as a mordant.

I never had pu-erh but lapsang souchong is no slouch for staining.

 

[Don Y]

On 7/22/2022 2:21 AM, rbowman wrote:

On 07/21/2022 11:56 PM, Don Y wrote:
I drink a lot of tea. A *lot* (to the tune of a gallon or more, daily...
EVERY day). My preferred tea is pu-erh -- delightfully dark and flavorful.
But, stains your teeth if you just LOOK at a cup of it!

The worst thing I\'ve found is German style red cabbage. I think the vinegar
acts as a mordant.

<turns up nose> How much of THAT can you eat? (not a big fan of cabbage
in any form)

> I never had pu-erh but lapsang souchong is no slouch for staining.

All the teas stain (tannin?). The blacker, the more aggressively.

I found the taste of pu-erh to be much more pleasant than \"regular\"
tea... it\'s got a sort of \"earthy\" taste. It is left to ferment for
a period before being packaged for sale (you buy it in \"cakes\")

But, the higher caffeine content makes it a poor health choice in the
long term (but excellent for dealing with allergies as a short-term fix)

I think the way most (?) folks drink tea also has an effect; you
take the fluid into your mouth and then \"shotgun\" it into your gut.
So, it has longer time to linger against/between the teeth surfaces.

 

[amdx]

On 7/20/2022 12:09 PM, amdx wrote:

 My experience so far: My son came home from work sic a week ago
Wednesday, a 3 month expired test, showed a weak positive.
 Next day a new test was full on positive. His sore throat was better,
he said 1-1/2 of 10. He has coughed a few times, but very little.
He went back to work after 4 days, Corp. policy is 5 days off and 5
days with a mask. The day he went back to work several people
were off with Covid. My son lives with mom and dad, we are 63 and 67,
we took no precautions other than not touching him or handling what he
handled.
We have separate computers desks, 6 ft from each other and spend hours
sitting near each other. 8 days of son with known symptoms and mom and
dad are still fine. Wife and Son got J&J, I got
Moderna  (2)  and  booster (1). I have been taking a multivitamin,
Vitamin D, Zinc/vitamin C, Quercetin, Lactoferrin, L-Citrulline and
metformin, (I\'m not diabetic, it has been found to help)
I still have my fingers crossed.

Thursday, 8 days after coming home sick, but after questioning he said
he felt off on Tuesday, so 9 days after first symptom son has tested
Negative for Covid.
Dad, (me) tested on Friday and still Negative, not sure why I dodged it
being in close vicinity of him most of the time. His mother is fine
also. So far so good.

Mikek

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

 

[rbowman]

On 07/22/2022 04:07 AM, Don Y wrote:

On 7/22/2022 2:21 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/21/2022 11:56 PM, Don Y wrote:
I drink a lot of tea. A *lot* (to the tune of a gallon or more,
daily...
EVERY day). My preferred tea is pu-erh -- delightfully dark and
flavorful.
But, stains your teeth if you just LOOK at a cup of it!

The worst thing I\'ve found is German style red cabbage. I think the
vinegar acts as a mordant.

turns up nose> How much of THAT can you eat? (not a big fan of cabbage
in any form)

Platefuls. Rotkohl is the staff of life. Easy on the juniper berries,
please. Cabbage, red or white, is so versatile. Nothing like a bowl of
shchi with kasha on the side on a cold winter day, Krautsalat in the
summer. You talk od kielbasa led me to make a nice pot of kielbasa and
cabbage.

What can I say? I come from a long line of German peasants and cow thieves.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 14:22:32 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
wrote:

On 07/22/2022 04:07 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/22/2022 2:21 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/21/2022 11:56 PM, Don Y wrote:
I drink a lot of tea. A *lot* (to the tune of a gallon or more,
daily...
EVERY day). My preferred tea is pu-erh -- delightfully dark and
flavorful.
But, stains your teeth if you just LOOK at a cup of it!

The worst thing I\'ve found is German style red cabbage. I think the
vinegar acts as a mordant.

turns up nose> How much of THAT can you eat? (not a big fan of cabbage
in any form)

Platefuls. Rotkohl is the staff of life. Easy on the juniper berries,
please. Cabbage, red or white, is so versatile. Nothing like a bowl of
shchi with kasha on the side on a cold winter day, Krautsalat in the
summer. You talk od kielbasa led me to make a nice pot of kielbasa and
cabbage.

What can I say? I come from a long line of German peasants and cow thieves.

I\'m Irish. Free corned beef and cabbage at The Dovre Club on St
Paddy\'s Day. The beer isn\'t free but that\'s reasonable.

 

[rbowman]

On 07/22/2022 03:31 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 14:22:32 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com
wrote:

On 07/22/2022 04:07 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/22/2022 2:21 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 07/21/2022 11:56 PM, Don Y wrote:
I drink a lot of tea. A *lot* (to the tune of a gallon or more,
daily...
EVERY day). My preferred tea is pu-erh -- delightfully dark and
flavorful.
But, stains your teeth if you just LOOK at a cup of it!

The worst thing I\'ve found is German style red cabbage. I think the
vinegar acts as a mordant.

turns up nose> How much of THAT can you eat? (not a big fan of cabbage
in any form)

Platefuls. Rotkohl is the staff of life. Easy on the juniper berries,
please. Cabbage, red or white, is so versatile. Nothing like a bowl of
shchi with kasha on the side on a cold winter day, Krautsalat in the
summer. You talk od kielbasa led me to make a nice pot of kielbasa and
cabbage.

What can I say? I come from a long line of German peasants and cow thieves.

I\'m Irish. Free corned beef and cabbage at The Dovre Club on St
Paddy\'s Day. The beer isn\'t free but that\'s reasonable.

In 1847 the Irish were damned glad to get cabbage; the beef was exported
to Britain. I usually make colcannon. That\'s closer to reality although
even the potatoes may have been a problem.

At least Butte MT had a celebration this year. They\'d missed two years
because of the black plague or whatever.

An Ri Ra is back too.

https://www.mtgaelic.org/lineup

Good lineup this year, almost as good as 2016 when they pulled out all
stops.

Germans and Irish have gotten along well together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtmZtpjb4Ss

It came to nothing and Casement was hung but they tried.