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A
a a
Guest
On Saturday, 16 July 2022 at 18:11:11 UTC+2, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
to self-promote fake science
Climate Changes are clocked by fluctuations in solar activity.
Call NASA Solar Lab one day to verify the above.
Get latest data on solar fluctuations.
2. If you deforest millions of acres of land, so you support albedo effect and more solar thermal energy is consumed by the Earth, since natural water retention cycles get destroyed.
We all love Carbon
--CO2 is welcome
-CO2 is Plant Food
-Plants are Animal Food
-Animals are Human Food
--More CO2 more Human Food
-to end the world hunger
--https://sci.electronics.design.narkive.com/eMVDUFoy/we-all-love-carbon-we-all-love-co2
Water (H2O) in the gaseous state is the only greenhouse gas due to its high heat of phase shift: fluid > gas > fluid
CO2 is all bullshit and fake offered by the Greens, Al Gore, his IPCC team, UNFCC, Prof. MannOn Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 4:15:39 AM UTC+11, newshound wrote:
On 25/11/2018 18:49, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 15:58:51 +0000, newshound
news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
On 25/11/2018 15:16, Cursitor Doom wrote:
snip
The Hawaii data goes back to 1960 and is generally considered pretty good
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeling_Curve#Mauna_Loa_measurements
That data gives an increase of 2 ppm/a, so to reach the NASA alarmist
figures of 1500 ppm takes 550 years.
What NASA alarmist figure? Getting to just 500 ppm implies a couple of degrees Celcius of global warming which enough to screw our agriculture.
Everyone seems to ignore the biofeedback effects, i.e. the increased
biomass production with higher CO2.
They don\'t, but plants don\'t reliably produce more biomass if you give them more CO2 - they need water and nitrate and phosphate as well. The direct effect of more CO2 in the atmosphere is smaller stomata in leaves so the plants can get as much CO2 as they need while losing less water (which tends to be less accessible).
The annual +/- 3 ppm variation is also interesting. It is measured in
the middle of a nutrient poor deep ocean (thermocline) on a small
island, Is the variation due to vegetation on the islands only ?
Unfortunately there doesn\'t seem to be long time measurements on
continents.
Because they vary all over the place,
Cape Grim in Tasmania (about sixty miles west of where I grew up) hosts a second CO2 observatory
https://capegrim.csiro.au/
it shows smaller season variations in CO2 levels because the southern hemisphere has less seasonal vegetation. Like Manua Loa, it\'s down-wind of lot of ocean so it gets a fairly stable CO2 signal averaged out by a lot of mixing.
No mystery. The uniformity of the variation means that this site is
going a very good job of global averaging. There\'s more vegetation in
the Northern Hemisphere than the South, hence the \"summer\" dip as it is
growing.
I agree with you that there are *lots* of feedback mechanisms that are not very well understood.
Snort.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
to self-promote fake science
Climate Changes are clocked by fluctuations in solar activity.
Call NASA Solar Lab one day to verify the above.
Get latest data on solar fluctuations.
2. If you deforest millions of acres of land, so you support albedo effect and more solar thermal energy is consumed by the Earth, since natural water retention cycles get destroyed.
We all love Carbon
--CO2 is welcome
-CO2 is Plant Food
-Plants are Animal Food
-Animals are Human Food
--More CO2 more Human Food
-to end the world hunger
--https://sci.electronics.design.narkive.com/eMVDUFoy/we-all-love-carbon-we-all-love-co2
Water (H2O) in the gaseous state is the only greenhouse gas due to its high heat of phase shift: fluid > gas > fluid
A
Anthony William Sloman
Guest
On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 2:54:09 AM UTC+10, a a wrote:
<snip>
> Water (H2O) in the gaseous state is the only greenhouse gas due to its high heat of phase shift: fluid > gas > fluid
A a does seem to love this particular lunacy. \"Greenhouse gases\" are gases which have strong infrared absorbtion lines.
This has absolutely nothing to do with their latent heats of vaporisation. Methane is famously a more potent greenhouse gas than water vapour or carbon dioxide (though it gets oxidised to CO2 and water with a half life of 8.6 years in the earth\'s atmosphere at the moment).
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
On Saturday, 16 July 2022 at 18:11:11 UTC+2, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 4:15:39 AM UTC+11, newshound wrote:
On 25/11/2018 18:49, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 15:58:51 +0000, newshound
news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
On 25/11/2018 15:16, Cursitor Doom wrote:
<snip>
> Water (H2O) in the gaseous state is the only greenhouse gas due to its high heat of phase shift: fluid > gas > fluid
A a does seem to love this particular lunacy. \"Greenhouse gases\" are gases which have strong infrared absorbtion lines.
This has absolutely nothing to do with their latent heats of vaporisation. Methane is famously a more potent greenhouse gas than water vapour or carbon dioxide (though it gets oxidised to CO2 and water with a half life of 8.6 years in the earth\'s atmosphere at the moment).
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
A
a a
Guest
On Sunday, 17 July 2022 at 04:26:36 UTC+2, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
==The most abundant greenhouse gases in Earth\'s atmosphere, listed in decreasing order of average global mole fraction, are:[14][15]
Water vapor (H
2O)
Carbon dioxide (CO
2)
Methane (CH
4)
Nitrous oxide (N
2O)
Ozone (O
3)
Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs and HCFCs)
Hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs)
Perfluorocarbons (CF
4, C
2F
6, etc.), SF
6, and NF
-----
Role of water vapor
Increasing water vapor in the stratosphere at Boulder, Colorado
Water vapor accounts for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect, between 36% and 66% for clear sky conditions and between 66% and 85% when including clouds.[21] Water vapor concentrations fluctuate regionally, but human activity does not directly affect water vapor concentrations except at local scales, such as near irrigated fields. Indirectly, human activity that increases global temperatures will increase water vapor concentrations, a process known as water vapor feedback.[22] The atmospheric concentration of vapor is highly variable and depends largely on temperature, from less than 0.01% in extremely cold regions up to 3% by mass in saturated air at about 32 °C.[23] (See Relative humidity#Other important facts.)
The average residence time of a water molecule in the atmosphere is only about nine days, compared to years or centuries for other greenhouse gases such as CH
4 and CO2.[24] Water vapor responds to and amplifies effects of the other greenhouse gases. The ClausiusâClapeyron relation establishes that more water vapor will be present per unit volume at elevated temperatures. This and other basic principles indicate that warming associated with increased concentrations of the other greenhouse gases also will increase the concentration of water vapor (assuming that the relative humidity remains approximately constant; modeling and observational studies find that this is indeed so). Because water vapor is a greenhouse gas, this results in further warming and so is a \"positive feedback\" that amplifies the original warming.. Eventually other earth processes[which?] offset these positive feedbacks, stabilizing the global temperature at a new equilibrium and preventing the loss of Earth\'s water through a Venus-like runaway greenhouse effect.[22]
Contribution of clouds to Earth\'s greenhouse effect
The major non-gas contributor to Earth\'s greenhouse effect, clouds, also absorb and emit infrared radiation and thus have an effect on greenhouse gas radiative properties. Clouds are water droplets or ice crystals suspended in the atmosphere.[25][21]
----
When ranked by their direct contribution to the greenhouse effect, the most important are:[25][failed verification]
Compound
Formula
Concentration in
atmosphere[31] (ppm) Contribution
(%)
Water vapor and clouds H
2O 10â50,000(A) 36â72%
Carbon dioxide CO2 ~400 9â26%
Methane CH
4 ~1.8 4â9%
Ozone O
3 2â8(B) 3â7%
notes:
(A) Water vapor strongly varies locally[32]
----
Anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions
The way land is used affects climate change and the emission of greenhouse gases; the agriculture, land uses, and other land uses sector, on average, accounted for 13-21% of global total anthropogenic greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions in the period 2010-2019 (medium confidence).[91]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas
On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 2:54:09 AM UTC+10, a a wrote:
On Saturday, 16 July 2022 at 18:11:11 UTC+2, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 4:15:39 AM UTC+11, newshound wrote:
On 25/11/2018 18:49, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 15:58:51 +0000, newshound
news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
On 25/11/2018 15:16, Cursitor Doom wrote:
snip
Water (H2O) in the gaseous state is the only greenhouse gas due to its high heat of phase shift: fluid > gas > fluid
A a does seem to love this particular lunacy. \"Greenhouse gases\" are gases which have strong infrared absorbtion lines.
This has absolutely nothing to do with their latent heats of vaporisation.. Methane is famously a more potent greenhouse gas than water vapour or carbon dioxide (though it gets oxidised to CO2 and water with a half life of 8..6 years in the earth\'s atmosphere at the moment).
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
don\'t be silly
==The most abundant greenhouse gases in Earth\'s atmosphere, listed in decreasing order of average global mole fraction, are:[14][15]
Water vapor (H
2O)
Carbon dioxide (CO
2)
Methane (CH
4)
Nitrous oxide (N
2O)
Ozone (O
3)
Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs and HCFCs)
Hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs)
Perfluorocarbons (CF
4, C
2F
6, etc.), SF
6, and NF
-----
Role of water vapor
Increasing water vapor in the stratosphere at Boulder, Colorado
Water vapor accounts for the largest percentage of the greenhouse effect, between 36% and 66% for clear sky conditions and between 66% and 85% when including clouds.[21] Water vapor concentrations fluctuate regionally, but human activity does not directly affect water vapor concentrations except at local scales, such as near irrigated fields. Indirectly, human activity that increases global temperatures will increase water vapor concentrations, a process known as water vapor feedback.[22] The atmospheric concentration of vapor is highly variable and depends largely on temperature, from less than 0.01% in extremely cold regions up to 3% by mass in saturated air at about 32 °C.[23] (See Relative humidity#Other important facts.)
The average residence time of a water molecule in the atmosphere is only about nine days, compared to years or centuries for other greenhouse gases such as CH
4 and CO2.[24] Water vapor responds to and amplifies effects of the other greenhouse gases. The ClausiusâClapeyron relation establishes that more water vapor will be present per unit volume at elevated temperatures. This and other basic principles indicate that warming associated with increased concentrations of the other greenhouse gases also will increase the concentration of water vapor (assuming that the relative humidity remains approximately constant; modeling and observational studies find that this is indeed so). Because water vapor is a greenhouse gas, this results in further warming and so is a \"positive feedback\" that amplifies the original warming.. Eventually other earth processes[which?] offset these positive feedbacks, stabilizing the global temperature at a new equilibrium and preventing the loss of Earth\'s water through a Venus-like runaway greenhouse effect.[22]
Contribution of clouds to Earth\'s greenhouse effect
The major non-gas contributor to Earth\'s greenhouse effect, clouds, also absorb and emit infrared radiation and thus have an effect on greenhouse gas radiative properties. Clouds are water droplets or ice crystals suspended in the atmosphere.[25][21]
----
When ranked by their direct contribution to the greenhouse effect, the most important are:[25][failed verification]
Compound
Formula
Concentration in
atmosphere[31] (ppm) Contribution
(%)
Water vapor and clouds H
2O 10â50,000(A) 36â72%
Carbon dioxide CO2 ~400 9â26%
Methane CH
4 ~1.8 4â9%
Ozone O
3 2â8(B) 3â7%
notes:
(A) Water vapor strongly varies locally[32]
----
Anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions
The way land is used affects climate change and the emission of greenhouse gases; the agriculture, land uses, and other land uses sector, on average, accounted for 13-21% of global total anthropogenic greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions in the period 2010-2019 (medium confidence).[91]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas
F
Fred Bloggs
Guest
On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 10:26:36 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
No one wants to hear about those dumb absorption lines...
A person of just a modicum of intelligence would be compelled to learn about a quantitative measure of comparison for the various greenhouse gases. The Global Warming Potential (GWP) has been developed and measured to this end for the various atmospheric gas components. The measure is complicated by the reality of variability over time and place for some of them.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/understanding-global-warming-potentials
There\'s not a whole lot on water vapor, but the GWP is a ridiculously low 0..001 to 0.0005 that of CO2 baseline, if this paper can be believed:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327565344_The_global_warming_potential_of_near-surface_emitted_water_vapour
There are some real GWP gaseous doozies out there:
https://climatechangeconnection.org/emissions/co2-equivalents/
None of this makes any difference because all these people will be killed off in a few years. UN has recently told us Earth\'s human population will reach exactly 8 billion on November 15, 2022. Overpopulation is the main driver of GW. The Earth and its natural environment will survive no matter what, the human residents will not.
On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 2:54:09 AM UTC+10, a a wrote:
On Saturday, 16 July 2022 at 18:11:11 UTC+2, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 4:15:39 AM UTC+11, newshound wrote:
On 25/11/2018 18:49, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 15:58:51 +0000, newshound
news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
On 25/11/2018 15:16, Cursitor Doom wrote:
snip
Water (H2O) in the gaseous state is the only greenhouse gas due to its high heat of phase shift: fluid > gas > fluid
A a does seem to love this particular lunacy. \"Greenhouse gases\" are gases which have strong infrared absorbtion lines.
This has absolutely nothing to do with their latent heats of vaporisation.. Methane is famously a more potent greenhouse gas than water vapour or carbon dioxide (though it gets oxidised to CO2 and water with a half life of 8..6 years in the earth\'s atmosphere at the moment).
No one wants to hear about those dumb absorption lines...
A person of just a modicum of intelligence would be compelled to learn about a quantitative measure of comparison for the various greenhouse gases. The Global Warming Potential (GWP) has been developed and measured to this end for the various atmospheric gas components. The measure is complicated by the reality of variability over time and place for some of them.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/understanding-global-warming-potentials
There\'s not a whole lot on water vapor, but the GWP is a ridiculously low 0..001 to 0.0005 that of CO2 baseline, if this paper can be believed:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327565344_The_global_warming_potential_of_near-surface_emitted_water_vapour
There are some real GWP gaseous doozies out there:
https://climatechangeconnection.org/emissions/co2-equivalents/
None of this makes any difference because all these people will be killed off in a few years. UN has recently told us Earth\'s human population will reach exactly 8 billion on November 15, 2022. Overpopulation is the main driver of GW. The Earth and its natural environment will survive no matter what, the human residents will not.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
A
Anthony William Sloman
Guest
On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 4:36:47 AM UTC+10, Fred Bloggs wrote:
The problem with water vapour as a greenhouse gas is that it freezes out when the atmosphere gets cold.
The earth - as a black body radiator - has to radiate as if its surface temperature was -18C - so the effective emitting altitude is relatively high in the atmosphere, as Joseph Fourier worked out in 1824. The vapor pressure of water up where it matters is relatively low.
In reality the green house gases make sure that its emission spectum doesn\'t look much like that of a black body
https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/atmosphericwarming.html
<snipped the usual misunderstood stuff>
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 10:26:36 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 2:54:09 AM UTC+10, a a wrote:
On Saturday, 16 July 2022 at 18:11:11 UTC+2, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 4:15:39 AM UTC+11, newshound wrote:
On 25/11/2018 18:49, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 15:58:51 +0000, newshound
news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
On 25/11/2018 15:16, Cursitor Doom wrote:
snip
Water (H2O) in the gaseous state is the only greenhouse gas due to its high heat of phase shift: fluid > gas > fluid
A a does seem to love this particular lunacy. \"Greenhouse gases\" are gases which have strong infrared absorbtion lines.
This has absolutely nothing to do with their latent heats of vaporisation. Methane is famously a more potent greenhouse gas than water vapour or carbon dioxide (though it gets oxidised to CO2 and water with a half life of 8.6 years in the earth\'s atmosphere at the moment).
No one wants to hear about those dumb absorption lines...
A person of just a modicum of intelligence would be compelled to learn about a quantitative measure of comparison for the various greenhouse gases. The Global Warming Potential (GWP) has been developed and measured to this end for the various atmospheric gas components. The measure is complicated by the reality of variability over time and place for some of them.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/understanding-global-warming-potentials
There\'s not a whole lot on water vapor, but the GWP is a ridiculously low 0.001 to 0.0005 that of CO2 baseline, if this paper can be believed:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327565344_The_global_warming_potential_of_near-surface_emitted_water_vapour
The problem with water vapour as a greenhouse gas is that it freezes out when the atmosphere gets cold.
The earth - as a black body radiator - has to radiate as if its surface temperature was -18C - so the effective emitting altitude is relatively high in the atmosphere, as Joseph Fourier worked out in 1824. The vapor pressure of water up where it matters is relatively low.
In reality the green house gases make sure that its emission spectum doesn\'t look much like that of a black body
https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/atmosphericwarming.html
<snipped the usual misunderstood stuff>
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney