OT: Canadian mains sockets?

[Terry Pinnell]

Not 'electronics', so excuse me, but could someone on that side of the
pond please confirm the type of mains socket I'm likely to find during
an upcoming holiday in the 'Canadian Rockies' please? FWIW, our
hotels/Lodges will be in Calgary, Banff, Lake Louise, Jasper and
Kananaskis Village, although presumably the days of local variations
in appliance outlets are long past?

The AC-DC adapter for most of the gadgets I'll be taking specify
'100-240V', so no issues there. But one exception is my Nokia mobile
phone. Before I look around for a 110V version, what's the current
status of coverage of UK mobiles in Canada please?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

 

[Terry Pinnell]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
Not 'electronics', so excuse me, but could someone on that side of the
pond please confirm the type of mains socket I'm likely to find during
an upcoming holiday in the 'Canadian Rockies' please? FWIW, our
hotels/Lodges will be in Calgary, Banff, Lake Louise, Jasper and
Kananaskis Village, although presumably the days of local variations
in appliance outlets are long past?

The AC-DC adapter for most of the gadgets I'll be taking specify
'100-240V', so no issues there. But one exception is my Nokia mobile
phone. Before I look around for a 110V version, what's the current
status of coverage of UK mobiles in Canada please?

Electricaly, Canada and the US are the same. Their power "grids" are
interconnected and they use the same plugs, etc.

That would be (nominally) 127 volts, which is often referred to 120 or 115
or in the old days 110 volts 60 Hz (cycles per second).

As for UK mobiles, it depends upon twothings. UK mobile networks are
GSM, using 900 and 1900 mHz and a 3g (third generation network) all of
which are incompatible with the Canada. Many newer high end phones are
multi-band and have 4 band coverage, or work with both 3g networks.

Before you start you need to determine if your mobile is compatible with the
Canadian GSM networks.

The second issue is when you get there, will you have service? Even if your
phone company has the same name as a Canadian one, they are not the same
company, so your company has to have a roaming agreement with a Canadian
company.

Roaming is expensive, and rates of $3 to $5 a minute are not uncommon. If
someone calls you on your mobile, they have to call the UK (at their expense)
and then you pay for the cost of forwarding the call to your mobile in
Canada.

Contact your company and find out what their roaming agreements are, which
networks to roam onto (and which to avoid) and the costs involved. Here
Orange Israel has a call back arrangement which cut the cost of a roaming call
from the EU from $5 a minute to under $2, but it was still expensive.

Once you know what networks to use, look at their coverage maps. You can
find the maps and any other information you need at www.gsmworld.com.

I have no idea of what you can get in Canada, but I found that you can
buy a reconditioned AT&T phone in the US for $10 and get unlimited incoming
(you pay for them too) and outgoing calls anywhere in the country for $3 a
day. You may be able to find a similar service in Canada.

If you find one, please post a followup or email me, so I can keep a
record of it.

There are companies which rent phones to travellers, if you are going
to be there for several weeks it may be worth it. You should be able to
find one in the UK.

Another option, which is often overlooked is to take a cheap netbook or
wifi phone with you and call people when you have wifi or internet access.
You can buy wifi phones which use the SIP or SKYPE protocol, or just bring
a laptop or netbook with a headset. Netbooks are often better as more
places such as hotels and people's homes have wired access but not Wifi.

SIP is used for VoIP services such as Vonage, SKYPE is obvious. Skype has
a deal where you can get incoming calls and lots of outgoing calls for
around $20. It's slightly over $5 a month, but you have to buy 3 months at
a time to get an incoming number. Or you can get a UK number and forward
your mobile to it. If you are traveling around, it may not be useful, but
if you are spending most of your time at one location and they have broadband
Internet, it may just be what you are looking for.

If you already have Vonage or any other VoIP service contact them and ask
about either taking your "box" with you, or using a laptop.

Geoff.

Geoff,

Many thanks for that fast and very thorough reply - a solid basis for
follow-up.

I take it the mains plug pins are always the flat type, just two, with
no ground/earth pin?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

 

[Phil Allison]

"Terry Pinnell"

Not 'electronics', so excuse me, but could someone on that side of the
pond please confirm the type of mains socket I'm likely to find during
an upcoming holiday in the 'Canadian Rockies' please?

** Strangely enough, you are not the first person to have this issue:

See: http://www.kropla.com/electric2.htm

You will find 2 and 3 pin outlets in Canada.




...... Phil

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Terry Pinnell wrote:

Not 'electronics', so excuse me, but could someone on that side of the
pond please confirm the type of mains socket I'm likely to find during
an upcoming holiday in the 'Canadian Rockies' please? FWIW, our
hotels/Lodges will be in Calgary, Banff, Lake Louise, Jasper and
Kananaskis Village, although presumably the days of local variations
in appliance outlets are long past?

The AC-DC adapter for most of the gadgets I'll be taking specify
'100-240V', so no issues there. But one exception is my Nokia mobile
phone. Before I look around for a 110V version, what's the current
status of coverage of UK mobiles in Canada please?

Electricaly, Canada and the US are the same. Their power "grids" are
interconnected and they use the same plugs, etc.

That would be (nominally) 127 volts, which is often referred to 120 or 115
or in the old days 110 volts 60 Hz (cycles per second).

As for UK mobiles, it depends upon twothings. UK mobile networks are
GSM, using 900 and 1900 mHz and a 3g (third generation network) all of
which are incompatible with the Canada. Many newer high end phones are
multi-band and have 4 band coverage, or work with both 3g networks.

Before you start you need to determine if your mobile is compatible with the
Canadian GSM networks.

The second issue is when you get there, will you have service? Even if your
phone company has the same name as a Canadian one, they are not the same
company, so your company has to have a roaming agreement with a Canadian
company.

Roaming is expensive, and rates of $3 to $5 a minute are not uncommon. If
someone calls you on your mobile, they have to call the UK (at their expense)
and then you pay for the cost of forwarding the call to your mobile in
Canada.

Contact your company and find out what their roaming agreements are, which
networks to roam onto (and which to avoid) and the costs involved. Here
Orange Israel has a call back arrangement which cut the cost of a roaming call
from the EU from $5 a minute to under $2, but it was still expensive.

Once you know what networks to use, look at their coverage maps. You can
find the maps and any other information you need at www.gsmworld.com.

I have no idea of what you can get in Canada, but I found that you can
buy a reconditioned AT&T phone in the US for $10 and get unlimited incoming
(you pay for them too) and outgoing calls anywhere in the country for $3 a
day. You may be able to find a similar service in Canada.

If you find one, please post a followup or email me, so I can keep a
record of it.

There are companies which rent phones to travellers, if you are going
to be there for several weeks it may be worth it. You should be able to
find one in the UK.

Another option, which is often overlooked is to take a cheap netbook or
wifi phone with you and call people when you have wifi or internet access.
You can buy wifi phones which use the SIP or SKYPE protocol, or just bring
a laptop or netbook with a headset. Netbooks are often better as more
places such as hotels and people's homes have wired access but not Wifi.

SIP is used for VoIP services such as Vonage, SKYPE is obvious. Skype has
a deal where you can get incoming calls and lots of outgoing calls for
around $20. It's slightly over $5 a month, but you have to buy 3 months at
a time to get an incoming number. Or you can get a UK number and forward
your mobile to it. If you are traveling around, it may not be useful, but
if you are spending most of your time at one location and they have broadband
Internet, it may just be what you are looking for.

If you already have Vonage or any other VoIP service contact them and ask
about either taking your "box" with you, or using a laptop.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <slrnh4p3me.tlp.gsm@cable.mendelson.com>,
Geoffrey S. Mendelson <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:

The difference is AFAIK that the UK electrical code does not allow for
ungrounded plugs, the Canadian (and US) allows for "double insulated"
devices to have two pin plugs. Double insulated devices are those either
in a nonconductive case for example a telephone charger in a plastic box,
or a second layer of insulation inside a metalic case.

It does - plenty of wall warts etc have a plastic earth pin. It's just
that the standard '13 amp' socket has shutters to prevent inserting
anything other than an approved plug.

--
*When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson"

The difference is AFAIK that the UK electrical code does not allow for
ungrounded plugs, the Canadian (and US) allows for "double insulated"
devices to have two pin plugs. Double insulated devices are those either
in a nonconductive case for example a telephone charger in a plastic box,
or a second layer of insulation inside a metalic case.

** The rules for "double insulation" or " class 2 "' appliance are not
quite so easily summed up.

Basically class 2 means:

1. There is no safety ground conductor in the AC power lead.

2. Sufficient, good quality insulation exists between live parts and any
metallic part that can be touched by a user.

3. No single point or predictable insulation failure can cause any metallic
part contactable by a user to become live.

Lots of details go into making these rules effective - particularly in
relation to the design of any AC supply isolating transformer inside an
appliance.



...... Phil

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Terry Pinnell wrote:

I take it the mains plug pins are always the flat type, just two, with
no ground/earth pin?

They are either one of three kinds. Two flat plugs of equal size, two flat
plugs one larger than the other (polarized) and two flat plugs with a
round ground pin. The round ground pin is slightly longer so it makes
contact first and forms a triangle with the other pins (like the UK
plug).

The difference is AFAIK that the UK electrical code does not allow for
ungrounded plugs, the Canadian (and US) allows for "double insulated"
devices to have two pin plugs. Double insulated devices are those either
in a nonconductive case for example a telephone charger in a plastic box,
or a second layer of insulation inside a metalic case.

http://www.amazon.com/UK-USA-GROUNDED-PLUG-ADAPTER/dp/B000NND600

That's an example. There is probably also an adaptor without the ground
pin for those devices that have a plastic ground pin because there is no
connection, but they need one to be sold in the UK.

Avoid the ones that look like a little oval of plastic with two pins
sticking out, they tend to fall off. Since US/Canadian plugs do not
have the saftey insulation at the back end of the plug, grabbing them the
wrong way could be dangerous.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM

 

[PeterD]

On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 10:54:19 +0100, Terry Pinnell
<terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote:

Geoff,

Many thanks for that fast and very thorough reply - a solid basis for
follow-up.

I take it the mains plug pins are always the flat type, just two, with
no ground/earth pin?

Nope, there will be ground pins (which accept two pin plugs) on all
sockets you are likely to come across in a commercial (hotel/motel)
environment. The only places you are likely to not see a grounding pin
is in old(er) houses which pre-date the ground pin requirement. These
are the exception.

 

[Jamie]

Terry Pinnell wrote:

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote:


Terry Pinnell wrote:

Not 'electronics', so excuse me, but could someone on that side of the
pond please confirm the type of mains socket I'm likely to find during
an upcoming holiday in the 'Canadian Rockies' please? FWIW, our
hotels/Lodges will be in Calgary, Banff, Lake Louise, Jasper and
Kananaskis Village, although presumably the days of local variations
in appliance outlets are long past?

The AC-DC adapter for most of the gadgets I'll be taking specify
'100-240V', so no issues there. But one exception is my Nokia mobile
phone. Before I look around for a 110V version, what's the current
status of coverage of UK mobiles in Canada please?

Electricaly, Canada and the US are the same. Their power "grids" are
interconnected and they use the same plugs, etc.

That would be (nominally) 127 volts, which is often referred to 120 or 115
or in the old days 110 volts 60 Hz (cycles per second).

As for UK mobiles, it depends upon twothings. UK mobile networks are
GSM, using 900 and 1900 mHz and a 3g (third generation network) all of
which are incompatible with the Canada. Many newer high end phones are
multi-band and have 4 band coverage, or work with both 3g networks.

Before you start you need to determine if your mobile is compatible with the
Canadian GSM networks.

The second issue is when you get there, will you have service? Even if your
phone company has the same name as a Canadian one, they are not the same
company, so your company has to have a roaming agreement with a Canadian
company.

Roaming is expensive, and rates of $3 to $5 a minute are not uncommon. If
someone calls you on your mobile, they have to call the UK (at their expense)
and then you pay for the cost of forwarding the call to your mobile in
Canada.

Contact your company and find out what their roaming agreements are, which
networks to roam onto (and which to avoid) and the costs involved. Here
Orange Israel has a call back arrangement which cut the cost of a roaming call

from the EU from $5 a minute to under $2, but it was still expensive.

Once you know what networks to use, look at their coverage maps. You can
find the maps and any other information you need at www.gsmworld.com.

I have no idea of what you can get in Canada, but I found that you can
buy a reconditioned AT&T phone in the US for $10 and get unlimited incoming
(you pay for them too) and outgoing calls anywhere in the country for $3 a
day. You may be able to find a similar service in Canada.

If you find one, please post a followup or email me, so I can keep a
record of it.

There are companies which rent phones to travellers, if you are going
to be there for several weeks it may be worth it. You should be able to
find one in the UK.

Another option, which is often overlooked is to take a cheap netbook or
wifi phone with you and call people when you have wifi or internet access.
You can buy wifi phones which use the SIP or SKYPE protocol, or just bring
a laptop or netbook with a headset. Netbooks are often better as more
places such as hotels and people's homes have wired access but not Wifi.

SIP is used for VoIP services such as Vonage, SKYPE is obvious. Skype has
a deal where you can get incoming calls and lots of outgoing calls for
around $20. It's slightly over $5 a month, but you have to buy 3 months at
a time to get an incoming number. Or you can get a UK number and forward
your mobile to it. If you are traveling around, it may not be useful, but
if you are spending most of your time at one location and they have broadband
Internet, it may just be what you are looking for.

If you already have Vonage or any other VoIP service contact them and ask
about either taking your "box" with you, or using a laptop.

Geoff.


Geoff,

Many thanks for that fast and very thorough reply - a solid basis for
follow-up.

I take it the mains plug pins are always the flat type, just two, with
no ground/earth pin?
Yes,

U-Ground plug.

http://www.alphasoundandlighting.com/stagelighting/edison_u-ground_plugs.html

 

[David Nebenzahl]

On 7/2/2009 2:54 AM Terry Pinnell spake thus:

I take it the mains plug pins are always the flat type, just two, with
no ground/earth pin?

As others have pointed out, you may encounter both 2- and 3-pin sockets.
You can easily accommodate 2-pin sockets by carrying a simple grounded
socked adapter, available everywhere.

[note post trimming]


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

 

[Terry Pinnell]

David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:

On 7/2/2009 2:54 AM Terry Pinnell spake thus:

I take it the mains plug pins are always the flat type, just two, with
no ground/earth pin?

As others have pointed out, you may encounter both 2- and 3-pin sockets.
You can easily accommodate 2-pin sockets by carrying a simple grounded
socked adapter, available everywhere.

[note post trimming]

Thanks all, grateful for those responses.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

 

[Eeyore]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
Not 'electronics', so excuse me, but could someone on that side of the
pond please confirm the type of mains socket I'm likely to find during
an upcoming holiday in the 'Canadian Rockies' please? FWIW, our
hotels/Lodges will be in Calgary, Banff, Lake Louise, Jasper and
Kananaskis Village, although presumably the days of local variations
in appliance outlets are long past?

The AC-DC adapter for most of the gadgets I'll be taking specify
'100-240V', so no issues there. But one exception is my Nokia mobile
phone. Before I look around for a 110V version, what's the current
status of coverage of UK mobiles in Canada please?

Electricaly, Canada and the US are the same. Their power "grids" are
interconnected and they use the same plugs, etc.

That would be (nominally) 127 volts

No it wouldn't. The spec is officially 120V. 127V is found in Mexico ( uniquely I
think ).

Graham


--
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my
email address

 

[Eeyore]

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:

I take it the mains plug pins are always the flat type, just two, with
no ground/earth pin?

They are either one of three kinds. Two flat plugs of equal size, two flat
plugs one larger than the other (polarized) and two flat plugs with a
round ground pin. The round ground pin is slightly longer so it makes
contact first and forms a triangle with the other pins (like the UK
plug).

The difference is AFAIK that the UK electrical code does not allow for
ungrounded plugs, the Canadian (and US) allows for "double insulated"
devices to have two pin plugs.

Nonsense. "Double insulated" i.e. Class II equipment is perfectly legal in the
UK but requires at least a 'false' plastic earth 'pin' to open up the safety
shutters preventing ( particularly child ) access to the live and neutral
terminals. I did actually electrocute myself as a kid through curiousity with
the previous standard of un-shuttered UK mains plugs.

Graham

--
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment
to my email address

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

Eeyore wrote:

No it wouldn't. The spec is officially 120V. 127V is found in Mexico ( uniquely I
think ).

Are you actually in the US? or have ever been there?

The spec may say 120 volts, but the nominal line voltage is higher, usually
around 127 volts.

As an example, the spec for the UK is 230 volts, but every time that comes
up in discussion here, someone mentions that they measure their voltage at
240. It seems while the spec is 230, there is enough variation allowed to
permit the UK to operate a 230 volt EU spec network without actually
changing the voltage.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM

 

[Nobody]

On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:59:03 +0000, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

No it wouldn't. The spec is officially 120V. 127V is found in Mexico (
uniquely I think ).

Are you actually in the US? or have ever been there?

The spec may say 120 volts, but the nominal line voltage is higher,
usually around 127 volts.

As an example, the spec for the UK is 230 volts, but every time that
comes up in discussion here, someone mentions that they measure their
voltage at 240. It seems while the spec is 230, there is enough
variation allowed to permit the UK to operate a 230 volt EU spec network
without actually changing the voltage.

The mains supply in the EU is required to be 230V +/-10% = 207V-253V.

Prior to 2008, many countries restricted supplies further, so that the
voltage wasn't more than 10% from the historical value. Countries which
used 240V restricted supplies to 230V -6%/+10% = 216V-253V = 240V -10%/+6%
while 220V countries used 230V -10%/+5% = 207V-242V = 220V -6%/+10%.

Since 2008, the supply voltage can theoretically be anywhere in the
207V-253V range, so it could be as much as +/-15% from the historical
value. However, given that the power stations and distribution systems
haven't changed, this doesn't occur in practice.

Products sold anywhere within the EU are required to tolerate the full
207V-253V range (this was an issue for some of the early microwave ovens;
those designed for 240V produced significantly less power when run at 220V).

 

[Phil Allison]

"Nobody"

Products sold anywhere within the EU are required to tolerate the full
207V-253V range

** Tolerate = what ??

I say it means they do not fail to work nor become damaged.

It does not mean performance must be unaffected.


(this was an issue for some of the early microwave ovens;
those designed for 240V produced significantly less power when run at
220V).

** So what ??

An incandescent lamp will produce far more light at 253V than at 207V.

Even a simple heater will deliver 50% more over that range.



...... Phil

 

[Ron]

Eeyore wrote:
I did actually electrocute myself as a kid through curiousity with

the previous standard of un-shuttered UK mains plugs.

I certainly hope not Graham, as technically, you would be dead! As the
definition of word is death by electric shock. It`s a common mistake tho.

Ron

 

[Fred Abse]

On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:41:48 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

I did actually electrocute myself as a kid

How come you ain't dead then?

"Electrocute" - compound word made from "Electric" and "Execute", sometime
in the late 19th / early 20th century.

In general usage meaning *lethal* electric shock.

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

 

[Phil Allison]

"Fred Abse"

Eeyore = Graham Stevenson :

I did actually electrocute myself as a kid

How come you ain't dead then?

** A childhood "near death experiece" might explain a lot.

Then Graham IS always exaggerating...



..... Phil

 

[Eeyore]

Ron wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
I did actually electrocute myself as a kid through curiousity with
the previous standard of un-shuttered UK mains plugs.

I certainly hope not Graham, as technically, you would be dead! As the
definition of word is death by electric shock. It`s a common mistake tho.

Was I 'electrified' instead then ?

Graham


--
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment
to my email address