[OT} Al Qaida announces 18K new terrorists

R

Rolavine

Guest
Great just in time for summer.
Good work on that war on terrorism thing George, if you keep making then at
this rate they won't 'sell out' like your flight suit doll.

Rocky
 
Rolavine wrote:
Great just in time for summer.
Good work on that war on terrorism thing George, if you keep making then at
this rate they won't 'sell out' like your flight suit doll.

Rocky
Click to expand...
Wrong forum -- most of us (should) be here for electronics design. There are
plenty of other forums that are appropriate for such posts.

In the future, please take your 'news' and political posts to a forum that
welcomes them.

Thanks
 
"Julie" <julie@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:40B3E38C.666B52A8@nospam.com...
Rolavine wrote:

Great just in time for summer.
Good work on that war on terrorism thing George, if you keep making then
at
this rate they won't 'sell out' like your flight suit doll.

Rocky

Wrong forum -- most of us (should) be here for electronics design. There
are
plenty of other forums that are appropriate for such posts.

In the future, please take your 'news' and political posts to a forum that
welcomes them.

Thanks
Click to expand...
I have yet to see you post anything about electronics. Care to start? How
can I turn an LM339 output from open-collector to active pull-up (V+ = 30V)
without using more than 6mA when sinking, AND get a rise time of 20ns?

Surely the best way to determine if anyone "welcomes" such posts is to see
if they reply to them. a quick squiz at SED shows why yes, they do.
Conversely, if you dont like it, ignore it.

Suggestions like yours are somewhat like pissing yourself whilst wearing a
dark suit - it will give you a nice warm feeling, but no-one else will
notice :)

Cheers
Terry
 
"Terry Given" <the_domes@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:<CaVsc.10216$XI4.368622@news.xtra.co.nz>...
"Julie" <julie@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:40B3E38C.666B52A8@nospam.com...
Rolavine wrote:
Click to expand...
<snip>

I have yet to see you post anything about electronics. Care to start? How
can I turn an LM339 output from open-collector to active pull-up (V+ = 30V)
without using more than 6mA when sinking, AND get a rise time of 20ns?
Click to expand...
How you looked at using the LM339 output to turn on the gate of a
small P-channel MOSFET, perhaps via a cascode NPN with its base tied
to the +5V rail (if there is one). 6mA isn't much, and for a 2.5V
threshold means a 470R load resistor.

If you want 20nsec, the gate capacitance has to be less than 40pF,
which is why you'd need a *small* P-channel MOSFET, and not too much
Miller capacitance either. A PNP-bipolar transistor could be faster,
but it depends on the load you want to pull up.

------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
 
"Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:7c584d27.0405260153.7e152863@posting.google.com...
"Terry Given" <the_domes@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:<CaVsc.10216$XI4.368622@news.xtra.co.nz>...
"Julie" <julie@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:40B3E38C.666B52A8@nospam.com...
Rolavine wrote:

snip

I have yet to see you post anything about electronics. Care to start?
How
can I turn an LM339 output from open-collector to active pull-up (V+ =
30V)
without using more than 6mA when sinking, AND get a rise time of 20ns?

How you looked at using the LM339 output to turn on the gate of a
small P-channel MOSFET, perhaps via a cascode NPN with its base tied
to the +5V rail (if there is one). 6mA isn't much, and for a 2.5V
threshold means a 470R load resistor.

If you want 20nsec, the gate capacitance has to be less than 40pF,
which is why you'd need a *small* P-channel MOSFET, and not too much
Miller capacitance either. A PNP-bipolar transistor could be faster,
but it depends on the load you want to pull up.

------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Click to expand...
Gidday Mate, (thought a bit of antipodean twang would be ok :)

I was kinda hoping Julie would post something about electronics - AFAIK all
she has posted is complaints about [OT] posts.

Turn OFF is not so good that way - the 470R alone discharges the p-FET gate.
And of course at turn-on the cascode NPN will have to suck down on R//C,
slowing turn-ON. hang on a minute - current driving parallel RC = dual of
voltage driving series RC, so time constant = RgCg where Rg = 470R, Cg =
40pF Tau = 19ns. In practice I would want more margin on Vt, so would
probably use a 680R resistor. In other words its not that easy :) (that also
inverts, which I could live with - but where does the other edge come from)

how about a pullup current source, and an npn-pnp emitter follower

Q=it=CV so 6mA, 30V, 20ns C = 6mA*20ns/30V = 2mA*2ns/1V = 4pF (not 40pF).
Ouch, thats an ask.

Cheers
Terry
 
Al Qaida announces 18K new terrorists
From: bill.sloman@ieee.org (Bill Sloman)
Date: 5/26/2004 2:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <7c584d27.0405260153.7e152863@posting.google.com

"Terry Given" <the_domes@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:<CaVsc.10216$XI4.368622@news.xtra.co.nz>...
"Julie" <julie@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:40B3E38C.666B52A8@nospam.com...
Rolavine wrote:

snip

I have yet to see you post anything about electronics. Care to start? How
can I turn an LM339 output from open-collector to active pull-up (V+ = 30V)
without using more than 6mA when sinking, AND get a rise time of 20ns?

How you looked at using the LM339 output to turn on the gate of a
small P-channel MOSFET, perhaps via a cascode NPN with its base tied
to the +5V rail (if there is one). 6mA isn't much, and for a 2.5V
threshold means a 470R load resistor.

If you want 20nsec, the gate capacitance has to be less than 40pF,
which is why you'd need a *small* P-channel MOSFET, and not too much
Miller capacitance either. A PNP-bipolar transistor could be faster,
but it depends on the load you want to pull up.

------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Maybe it was a trick question, if 20ns was important why use an LM339 in the
Click to expand...
first place. Yeah I know maybe only the output is important but heck, wouldn't
a good designer want the fastest practical output on the comparator too?

After I put this thread in the Govt. announced possible terrorist actions this
summer. Hey maybe they can have one that closes the Polls in November?

Rocky
 
Terry Given wrote...
... so time constant = RgCg where Rg = 470R, Cg = 40pF Tau = 19ns.
Click to expand...
Don't assume Cg so directly controls the rise/fall time. Keep in
mind that only a portion of the gate charge is expended during the
time the drain is swinging, so the turn-on risetime will be much
faster than you calculate using Ciss. Instead use the gate-charge
curves. The turn-off falltime can be faster as well, although this
depends somewhat on the FET's gate construction, and the internal
resistance of the distant gate runners. Although most of the FET's
cells will turn off quickly, they all have to turn off fully before
the FET drain voltage can fully traverse its swing.

Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)
 
Terry Given wrote:
"Julie" <julie@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:40B3E38C.666B52A8@nospam.com...
Rolavine wrote:

Great just in time for summer.
Good work on that war on terrorism thing George, if you keep making then
at
this rate they won't 'sell out' like your flight suit doll.

Rocky

Wrong forum -- most of us (should) be here for electronics design. There
are
plenty of other forums that are appropriate for such posts.

In the future, please take your 'news' and political posts to a forum that
welcomes them.

Thanks

I have yet to see you post anything about electronics. Care to start? How
can I turn an LM339 output from open-collector to active pull-up (V+ = 30V)
without using more than 6mA when sinking, AND get a rise time of 20ns?
Click to expand...
Yes, I come here seeking knowledge and understanding about
SCI.ELECTRONICS.DESIGN. Whether or not I post any answers is irrelevant. I
have posted a question or two, but mostly read interesting (and topical) posts
by others.

Surely the best way to determine if anyone "welcomes" such posts is to see
if they reply to them. a quick squiz at SED shows why yes, they do.
Conversely, if you dont like it, ignore it.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately you are right -- 'mob rules' is what seems to drive a lot of
(unmoderated) usenet forums, however that doesn't make it right.

Yes, I could ignore it, but I can also raise my voice to blatant disregard to
the objective of this forum. I choose the latter. You are welcome to ignore
my responses.

I hope that you aren't concluding that your squiz/SED 'analysis' is anything
that could be considered even remotely as an analysis of what is/isn't
appropriate. If you want a definitive answer, check the charter, if there is
one, and if there isn't, then the FAQ. Barring that exists, then inference
based on the newsgroup name.

Suggestions like yours are somewhat like pissing yourself whilst wearing a
dark suit - it will give you a nice warm feeling, but no-one else will
notice :)
Click to expand...
Well, you noticed. If enough started speaking up about the off topic political
trash that polluted this forum, we could all enjoy this forum for its topical
content.
 
On Wed, 26 May 2004 12:42:05 -0700, the renowned Julie
<julie@nospam.com> wrote:

Well, you noticed. If enough started speaking up about the off topic political
trash that polluted this forum, we could all enjoy this forum for its topical
content.
Click to expand...
But maybe the people who tend to give the answers would find it a less
interesting place to spend their spare moments and cease to provide
that service. As primarily a consumer rather than a provider of ideas,
expertise and answers, that should be more your immediate concern.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
Winfield Hill <Winfield_member@newsguy.com> says...
Terry Given wrote...

... so time constant = RgCg where Rg = 470R, Cg = 40pF Tau = 19ns.

Don't assume Cg so directly controls the rise/fall time. Keep in
mind that only a portion of the gate charge is expended during the
time the drain is swinging, so the turn-on risetime will be much
faster than you calculate using Ciss. Instead use the gate-charge
curves. The turn-off falltime can be faster as well, although this
depends somewhat on the FET's gate construction, and the internal
resistance of the distant gate runners. Although most of the FET's
cells will turn off quickly, they all have to turn off fully before
the FET drain voltage can fully traverse its swing.
Click to expand...
I have a request.

Could you *PLEASE* take the [OT] out of the subject line and rewrite it
when you talk about electronics? I am sick and tired of having to read
every "[OT] Al Qaida announces 18K new terrorists" post just in case
you might be discussing gate charge and rise/fall time.

Sometimes I have plenty of time and read all posts. Other times I have
little time and read only the electronics posts. Your refusal to edit
the Subject line is making it very hard for me to accomplish this.

A minor amount of effort on your part would save me a lot of time and
effort, and would make this newsgroup a lot easier to use.

--
Guy Macon, Electronics Engineer & Project Manager for hire.
Remember Doc Brown from the _Back to the Future_ movies? Do you
have an "impossible" engineering project that only someone like
Doc Brown can solve? My resume is at http://www.guymacon.com/
 
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Wed, 26 May 2004 12:42:05 -0700, the renowned Julie
julie@nospam.com> wrote:

Well, you noticed. If enough started speaking up about the off topic political
trash that polluted this forum, we could all enjoy this forum for its topical
content.

But maybe the people who tend to give the answers would find it a less
interesting place to spend their spare moments and cease to provide
that service. As primarily a consumer rather than a provider of ideas,
expertise and answers, that should be more your immediate concern.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Click to expand...
Ends justify the means?
 
Spehro Pefhany says...
Julie wrote:

Well, you noticed. If enough started speaking up about the off topic political
trash that polluted this forum, we could all enjoy this forum for its topical
content.

But maybe the people who tend to give the answers would find it a less
interesting place to spend their spare moments and cease to provide
that service. As primarily a consumer rather than a provider of ideas,
expertise and answers, that should be more your immediate concern.
Click to expand...
In my opinion, proper use of "[OT]" will meet both or your needs.
Julie can just filter out all posts that have [OT] in the subject
line, and Spehro can read everything. We are already doing a pretty
good job of marking our posts in this way. Most engineers are quite
reasonable and will put in a small amount of effort if it will benefit
others. The important thing is to make it crystal clear that this is
a polite request that anyone is free to ignore, as opposed to an attempt
to control what people post.



--
Guy Macon, Electronics Engineer & Project Manager for hire.
Remember Doc Brown from the _Back to the Future_ movies? Do you
have an "impossible" engineering project that only someone like
Doc Brown can solve? My resume is at http://www.guymacon.com/
 
Julie <julie@nospam.com> says...

If enough started speaking up about the off topic political
trash that polluted this forum, we could all enjoy this forum
for its topical content.
Click to expand...
If you don't like off topic political posts, why on earth are you
reading a post with the title "Re: [OT] Al Qaida announces 18K new
terrorists"? You need to take responsibility for your decisions
about what you read rather than trying to control what other people
post about.
 
Guy Macon wrote:
Julie <julie@nospam.com> says...

If enough started speaking up about the off topic political
trash that polluted this forum, we could all enjoy this forum
for its topical content.

If you don't like off topic political posts, why on earth are you
reading a post with the title "Re: [OT] Al Qaida announces 18K new
terrorists"? You need to take responsibility for your decisions
about what you read rather than trying to control what other people
post about.
Click to expand...
<quote>

sci.electronics.design is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote for
creation by 169:35 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 24 Oct 1995.

For your newsgroups file:
sci.electronics.design Electronic circuit design.

The charter, culled from the vote result announcement:

***Discussions relevant to the design of electronics circuits.***

</quote, emphasis added>

I'm not trying to control what other people post about, just mentioning that
such posts are not topical in this newsgroup.

end.
 
Julie <julie@nospam.com> says...

I'm not trying to control what other people post about, just
mentioning that such posts are not topical in this newsgroup.
Click to expand...
....and you expect me to believe that you have no expectations
that mentioning this might have an effect on what people post?
That you are happy as a clam with off-topic posts, have no
opposition to them, and are "just mentioning that such posts
are not topical" because you think that we might not notice?
I find that hard to believe.

When you wrote "If enough started speaking up about the off topic
political trash that polluted this forum, we could all enjoy this
forum for its topical content", a reasonable person would conclude
that you *are* trying to control what other people post about.

I asked you a direct question, and you didn't answer. Let me ask
again: If you don't like off topic political posts, why on earth
are you reading a post with the title "Re: [OT] Al Qaida announces
18K new terrorists"? I am very interested in your answer to this.
 
Guy Macon wrote...
Winfield Hill says...

Terry Given wrote...

... so time constant = RgCg where Rg = 470R, Cg = 40pF Tau = 19ns.

Don't assume Cg so directly controls the rise/fall time. Keep in
mind that only a portion of the gate charge is expended during the
time the drain is swinging, so the turn-on risetime will be much
faster than you calculate using Ciss. Instead use the gate-charge
curves. The turn-off falltime can be faster as well, although this
depends somewhat on the FET's gate construction, and the internal
resistance of the distant gate runners. Although most of the FET's
cells will turn off quickly, they all have to turn off fully before
the FET drain voltage can fully traverse its swing.

I have a request.

Could you *PLEASE* take the [OT] out of the subject line and rewrite it
when you talk about electronics? I am sick and tired of having to read
every "[OT] Al Qaida announces 18K new terrorists" post just in case
you might be discussing gate charge and rise/fall time.

Sometimes I have plenty of time and read all posts. Other times I have
little time and read only the electronics posts. Your refusal to edit
the Subject line is making it very hard for me to accomplish this.

A minor amount of effort on your part would save me a lot of time and
effort, and would make this newsgroup a lot easier to use.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, Terry, but as has been covered here in detail several times,
some newsgroup readers, and especially the Google archive, which is the
most important reader, treat any changes in the subject as a new thread,
thereby breaking the conversation if any change is made. The only place
SUBJECT: changes can be safely made is when the topic first diverges.

Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)
 
On Wed, 26 May 2004 15:04:38 -0700, Guy Macon wrote:

Julie <julie@nospam.com> says...

I'm not trying to control what other people post about, just
mentioning that such posts are not topical in this newsgroup.

...and you expect me to believe that you have no expectations
that mentioning this might have an effect on what people post?
That you are happy as a clam with off-topic posts, have no
opposition to them, and are "just mentioning that such posts
are not topical" because you think that we might not notice?
I find that hard to believe.

When you wrote "If enough started speaking up about the off topic
political trash that polluted this forum, we could all enjoy this
forum for its topical content", a reasonable person would conclude
that you *are* trying to control what other people post about.

I asked you a direct question, and you didn't answer. Let me ask
again: If you don't like off topic political posts, why on earth
are you reading a post with the title "Re: [OT] Al Qaida announces
18K new terrorists"? I am very interested in your answer to this.
Click to expand...
If she didn't read it, it's likely that the subject line alone was
enough to elicit a response.

Why do you assume she read it?
--
Best Regards,
Mike
 
On Wed, 26 May 2004 14:43:22 -0700, Julie wrote:

Guy Macon wrote:

Julie <julie@nospam.com> says...

If enough started speaking up about the off topic political
trash that polluted this forum, we could all enjoy this forum
for its topical content.

If you don't like off topic political posts, why on earth are you
reading a post with the title "Re: [OT] Al Qaida announces 18K new
terrorists"? You need to take responsibility for your decisions
about what you read rather than trying to control what other people
post about.

quote

sci.electronics.design is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote for
creation by 169:35 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 24 Oct 1995.

For your newsgroups file:
sci.electronics.design Electronic circuit design.

The charter, culled from the vote result announcement:

***Discussions relevant to the design of electronics circuits.***

/quote, emphasis added

I'm not trying to control what other people post about, just mentioning that
such posts are not topical in this newsgroup.
Click to expand...
We already know that. It's highly likely that part of the reason we
go OT is because we'd rather discuss OT stuff among ourselves rather
than go to alt.whackosdiscussingpolitics.pluckmynerves

But thanks for stopping by. Not many gals here. If it's any
consolation, I like discussing food and recipies rather than
politics.

You like spicy food? :)
--
Best Regards,
Mike
 
Activ8 <reply2group@ndbbm.net> says...
Guy Macon wrote:


I asked you a direct question, and you didn't answer. Let me ask
again: If you don't like off topic political posts, why on earth
are you reading a post with the title "Re: [OT] Al Qaida announces
18K new terrorists"? I am very interested in your answer to this.

Why do you assume she read it?
Click to expand...
Her newsreader (Mozilla 4.8 [en] Windows NT 5.0) displays subject lines.
 
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