OpAmp questions

[steve gonedes]

[ I have attached a drawing in base64. Sorry for the inconvenience. ]

I have a quick question about some op amps. I have included a small sketch
of the circuit in ps/pdf. The circuit is taken from a well known book (it's
rather beginner level so I'm embarrassed to enclose the title) with the
circuit designed for use with 1/2 of a TL272. I however opted to use a 741
being that the results are usually better for me. The opamp is being used as
a simple comparator - how it works this way is unknown to me. The probe wire
is being jammed into various holes - the decisive being the 4.5 - 6 volts.

The question that I have arose while trying different opamps. When using the
TL272 both LEDs stay lit to some degree, although using a pot seems to clean
it up a bit.


New amp behavior
================
I just got a new (? do they age any?) 741 bought from a local radio hut that
does not have familiar markings. No big deal, the index is missing but it
works - labeled as an LM741CN. I think it's from fairchild (it has the
letter `F' kg42 in the top left corner).

When using this amp in the circuit both LEDs are lit at similiar luminosity
before I start jabbing with the probe. I would love to give foot candles and
current consumption but I don't know how to do that in the daytime. I am
running the circuit off of batteries. They seem like good batteries. I also
can't measure the capacitance of the LEDs. I don't know how - I would love
to be able to measure capacitors, I have a couple in the picofarad range and
don't know how reliable they are (replacement would seem to be the best
answer but ``new'' don't mean much here.)

After jabbing with a 20cm tinned 18guage wire (yes, I believe the insides of
the wire are solid) the green chip (top half of the voltage divider)
switches off and the red LED is all on whenever I plug into a voltage > 4
volts. Plugging into anything less (ground upto 5v) does nothing for my eye
ball inspection. I would expect that the red LED (top of voltage divider) to
become more illuminated - or the bottom at least - where does the extra
current go to? Does it (741) draw none or am I ``saturated''? It's like an
on off thing, not what I usually get from an amp.


Old amp behavior
================
When I use my other available JC79rA LM741CN I get the expected behavior.
Power up and Green LED is about 2/3 bright. When I probe a voltage half
reference the red LED goes high and the green goes low (practically off).

I'm only using some beat up old resistors, cracked to the helm I'm sure, but
the behavior of the new opamp seems more like a tl272 as opposed my ``old
fashioned'' 741s that are all plugged into something and usually reverse
biased by battery.


Questions
==========

If anyone has any ideas I would appreciate a haydirt. Please just skip the
questions if they are beneath you or if there isn't enough qalitative data.
I'm still new to these opamp things, don't know where else to post/go
without being called an idiot or told that the circuit is broken or end up
with missing and or stepped on parts.

1. what could cause the discrepancy? My initial guess is that I plugged the
chip in backwards and burned it out. How to verify?

2. how can I measure current in a live circuit accurately, in terms of
voltage and the magicall `I'. Also directionality and depth would be nice
too. I thought I had a pretty descent setup but it uses two 741 opamps
and a centertapped transformer. I can only run it at 5 volts because I
have ``misplaced'' all my 9 and 12 volt negative voltage regulators. I
usually trust the voltage regulators fairly well - assuming I am able to
pair them up.

3. how do I test a capacitor or the ``skin value'' of an object. I've used
teflon tape to wrap some electrolytic types - but soon decided that if
they leak maybe they should leak. I have seem a couple go - and it never
seems that bad - but I'm sure wrapping the bigger guys (+25v) could be a
sign of stupidity. (Although it does seem to work as an outdoor
experiement. That was when I could conduct experiments outdoors... damn
neighbors and their coffee I suppose - sigh.)

4. What is a negative capacitor used for and how again do you measure it
without using a 555 DC-DC converter to pulse the liberty bell until I
find a fuse that survives the onslaught (please don't say zener)?

5. Where can I get reliable voltage regulators with their matching
counterparts for cash (i.e., i do not use credit cards online because I
hate paypal. paypal is bad for the economy and tcp/ip is a session less
protocol. Maybe some cookies would help) . I.e. 7912 and a 7812 from the
same company or with same specs would be nice, especially if the casing
is etched. The ink seems to run or fade or something. Maybe putting them
in the oven to dry my solder paste was a bad idea?

6. Any good books on building test equiptment such as simple voltmeters with
overload protection (i.e., not a fuse) and thermal monitoring. Frequency
counters that work at low frequencies. Or a current meter if they exist.
Sound level meter, etc.

I've built a crystal tester (plans from inet) and it demonstrated that
the pizeo was oscillating but I can't count that fast - it would seem
nice to plug it into the 2 wire universal serial bus but visual basic is
rather slow and the overhead of the system call processing for a 16bit IO
port on a dual core processor with a ``64 bit IP'' would be a joke even
if there were a buffer or some parallel design. I mean forget it if
someone tries to use some other input peripheral on a different bus.

My guess is that the parts I need are all patented or something, but I'd
still love to read a book on how they made them tools.

7. I would just break down and buy a microcontroller but I use linux and a
serial port. The last micro I had took more time to program the programer
than it did to discover the ``bypass'' transistor that would make
measurements somewhat costly in terms of 9 volt batteries.

I would like to use the ADC in the parallel port but I think either
someone just bought the patent or people really have no desire to plug
their printers into a computer anymore. I can't even find a crimper for
the cable (assuming you have the right cable). The game port would be
nice but they removed them from computers when I was out of it, along
with the analog joysticks. Click, click, click.



and (with-open-dribble-file

Sorry for the elongated and usless dribble. But do appreciate any replies.
Thanks.

)

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====

 

[Andre Majorel]

On 2008-08-02, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

steve gonedes wrote:

[ I have attached a drawing in base64. Sorry for the inconvenience. ]

Firstly you don't attach drawings to non-binary groups.

The OP could post his schematic to
alt.binaries.schematics.electronic.

I haven't a clue what base 64 would be anyway.

8-to-6 bit encoding scheme to convert binary data to ASCII and
back. Your news reader probably knows how to handle it.

I'm not seeing the original post at all, though. My ISP likely
dropped it because of the base64 attachment...

--
André Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
"Buy in bulk, that's my advice." -- Lemmy