Onkyo TX-SV70 Pro Amp-Tuner - Display But No Sound...

[Chris K-Man]

Onkyo TX-SV70 Pro Amp-Tuner - Display But No Sound

The owner states that \"all the buttons do something\" on
the front display when she presses them, but she hears no
sound out of the speakers attached to it.

I asked her to make sure she had selected the correct speaker
group(A or B). Still no sound. She was tuned to a known good
local radio station.

Any other suggestions?

 

[Phil Allison]

Chris K-Man wrote:
=================

Onkyo TX-SV70 Pro Amp-Tuner - Display But No Sound

The owner states that \"all the buttons do something\" on
the front display when she presses them, but she hears no
sound out of the speakers attached to it.

I asked her to make sure she had selected the correct speaker
group(A or B). Still no sound. She was tuned to a known good
local radio station.

Any other suggestions?

** Speaker relay not closing is likely.
Blown internal fuses another.


........ Phil

 

[whit3rd]

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 12:04:07 PM UTC-7, Chris K-Man wrote:

Onkyo TX-SV70 Pro Amp-Tuner - Display But No Sound

The owner states that \"all the buttons do something\" on
the front display when she presses them, but she hears no
sound out of the speakers attached to it.

So, she\'s tried the \'tape monitor\' button, and that didn\'t fix the problem?

 

[Chris K-Man]

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 5:18:59 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 12:04:07 PM UTC-7, Chris K-Man wrote:
Onkyo TX-SV70 Pro Amp-Tuner - Display But No Sound

The owner states that \"all the buttons do something\" on
the front display when she presses them, but she hears no
sound out of the speakers attached to it.
So, she\'s tried the \'tape monitor\' button, and that didn\'t fix the problem?
______

I\'ll check all that when I visit the customer

 

[abrsvc]

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 5:53:39 AM UTC-4, Chris K-Man wrote:

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 5:18:59 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 12:04:07 PM UTC-7, Chris K-Man wrote:
Onkyo TX-SV70 Pro Amp-Tuner - Display But No Sound

The owner states that \"all the buttons do something\" on
the front display when she presses them, but she hears no
sound out of the speakers attached to it.
So, she\'s tried the \'tape monitor\' button, and that didn\'t fix the problem?
______

I\'ll check all that when I visit the customer
The easiest thing to have the customer check is the sound of the protection relay releasing/engaging. Turn on the unit and listen for a click. If none, then there is a problem with the output section and the protection circuit is engaged preventing the speakers from connecting. This can be caused by many things in the output section.

When you get this for repair, look at the driver ICs (uPC1298V) for poor connections. This is a common failure point. Check any voltage regulators for poor connections as well.

Dan

 

[Chris K-Man]

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 9:19:05 AM UTC-4, dansabr...@yahoo.com wrote:

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 5:53:39 AM UTC-4, Chris K-Man wrote:
On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 5:18:59 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 12:04:07 PM UTC-7, Chris K-Man wrote:
Onkyo TX-SV70 Pro Amp-Tuner - Display But No Sound

The owner states that \"all the buttons do something\" on
the front display when she presses them, but she hears no
sound out of the speakers attached to it.
So, she\'s tried the \'tape monitor\' button, and that didn\'t fix the problem?
______

I\'ll check all that when I visit the customer
The easiest thing to have the customer check is the sound of the protection relay releasing/engaging. Turn on the unit and listen for a click. If none, then there is a problem with the output section and the protection circuit is engaged preventing the speakers from connecting. This can be caused by many things in the output section.

When you get this for repair, look at the driver ICs (uPC1298V) for poor connections. This is a common failure point. Check any voltage regulators for poor connections as well.

Dan
____

On my personal JVC receiver, there\'s a click almost concurrent with
pressing the power button, then about two seconds later, a second click,
after which I can hear sound. Is that the click I should listen for on hers?

 

[Phil Allison]

Chris K-Man wrote:
===============

On my personal JVC receiver, there\'s a click almost concurrent with
pressing the power button, then about two seconds later, a second click,
after which I can hear sound. Is that the click I should listen for on hers?

** The first click is the power relay - it turns on the main PSU.
The second is the muting/ protect relay.

BTW brand names are not models and models all differ.



....... Phil

 

[Dave Platt]

In article <7a578025-ca3f-450c-aa4f-dd44cc3e074fn@googlegroups.com>,
Chris K-Man <thekmanrocks@gmail.com> wrote:

On my personal JVC receiver, there\'s a click almost concurrent with
pressing the power button, then about two seconds later, a second click,
after which I can hear sound. Is that the click I should listen for on hers?

Probably, yes. The first \"click\" would be a relay closing in the
primary AC-power circuit, turning in the main power supply to the
tuner and preamp and the amplifier. The second \"click\" would be the
output (speaker-protection) relay closing, connecting the amplifier
output to the speakers. This approach protects the speakers, and
eliminates any bothersome \"POP\" when the DC power comes on.

In most such designs, the second \"click\" won\'t happen if there\'s been
a failure in the amplifier or power supply circuit which would allow
damaging DC voltage to be sent to the speakers. It can also happen as
a result of a problem in the circuit which detects such failures.

A few years ago I diagnosed a huge Heathkit amplifier which wouldn\'t
make music... the output relay never operated and the red \"FAULT\"
light stayed on. It turned out to be a simple matter... a tiny
(1/8-ampere) fuse providing power to one channel\'s input circuitry had
opened up due to old age, and this created a DC-voltage fault that was
caught by the protection circuitry. Simply replacing the fuse fixed
the problem.

Another possible problem can be the relay itself - sometimes the
contacts get dirty or arc-damaged, and won\'t make a proper circuit.
This _usually_ seems to happen on only one channel, not on both at the
same time... replacing the relay is the best solution in these cases.

 

[Dave Platt]

In article <7a578025-ca3f-450c-aa4f-dd44cc3e074fn@googlegroups.com>,
Chris K-Man <thekmanrocks@gmail.com> wrote:

On my personal JVC receiver, there\'s a click almost concurrent with
pressing the power button, then about two seconds later, a second click,
after which I can hear sound. Is that the click I should listen for on hers?

Probably, yes. The first \"click\" would be a relay closing in the
primary AC-power circuit, turning in the main power supply to the
tuner and preamp and the amplifier. The second \"click\" would be the
output (speaker-protection) relay closing, connecting the amplifier
output to the speakers. This approach protects the speakers, and
eliminates any bothersome \"POP\" when the DC power comes on.

In most such designs, the second \"click\" won\'t happen if there\'s been
a failure in the amplifier or power supply circuit which would allow
damaging DC voltage to be sent to the speakers. It can also happen as
a result of a problem in the circuit which detects such failures.

A few years ago I diagnosed a huge Heathkit amplifier which wouldn\'t
make music... the output relay never operated and the red \"FAULT\"
light stayed on. It turned out to be a simple matter... a tiny
(1/8-ampere) fuse providing power to one channel\'s input circuitry had
opened up due to old age, and this created a DC-voltage fault that was
caught by the protection circuitry. Simply replacing the fuse fixed
the problem.

Another possible problem can be the relay itself - sometimes the
contacts get dirty or arc-damaged, and won\'t make a proper circuit.
This _usually_ seems to happen on only one channel, not on both at the
same time... replacing the relay is the best solution in these cases.

 

[root]

Sorry for jumping into a continuing thread, but I \'ve had trouble
with Onkyo an receiver, but I found a very interesting thing:
they can heal themselves. The tuner on my first Onkyo failed.
Since everything else worked I put the receiver aside and bought
a new Onkyo. After a couple of weeks I decided I wanted to swap
it out for a Denon. So I packed up the new Onkyo, and before
I could return it I went back to the old Onkyo and the tuner
was working, as was everything else. The tuner healed itself
by sitting idle for a couple of weeks. Sometime later the
sound went out, and this time I just unplugged the unit
for a couple of days and, again the unit worked fine.

I still have the Onkyo, but I did switch to a Denon
because I got a 4K display.

 

[root]

Sorry for jumping into a continuing thread, but I \'ve had trouble
with Onkyo an receiver, but I found a very interesting thing:
they can heal themselves. The tuner on my first Onkyo failed.
Since everything else worked I put the receiver aside and bought
a new Onkyo. After a couple of weeks I decided I wanted to swap
it out for a Denon. So I packed up the new Onkyo, and before
I could return it I went back to the old Onkyo and the tuner
was working, as was everything else. The tuner healed itself
by sitting idle for a couple of weeks. Sometime later the
sound went out, and this time I just unplugged the unit
for a couple of days and, again the unit worked fine.

I still have the Onkyo, but I did switch to a Denon
because I got a 4K display.

 

[Phil Allison]

root wrote:
=========

Sorry for jumping into a continuing thread, but I \'ve had trouble
with Onkyo an receiver, but I found a very interesting thing:
they can heal themselves. The tuner on my first Onkyo failed.
Since everything else worked I put the receiver aside and bought
a new Onkyo. After a couple of weeks I decided I wanted to swap
it out for a Denon. So I packed up the new Onkyo, and before
I could return it I went back to the old Onkyo and the tuner
was working, as was everything else. The tuner healed itself
by sitting idle for a couple of weeks. Sometime later the
sound went out, and this time I just unplugged the unit
for a couple of days and, again the unit worked fine.
------------------------------------------------------------------

** That is called an \" intermittent fault \" in the repair business.

When the unit works fine most of the time, they are often near impossible to track down.


...... Phil

 

[John Robertson]

On 2021/08/26 10:18 p.m., Phil Allison wrote:

root wrote:
=========
Sorry for jumping into a continuing thread, but I \'ve had trouble
with Onkyo an receiver, but I found a very interesting thing:
they can heal themselves. The tuner on my first Onkyo failed.
Since everything else worked I put the receiver aside and bought
a new Onkyo. After a couple of weeks I decided I wanted to swap
it out for a Denon. So I packed up the new Onkyo, and before
I could return it I went back to the old Onkyo and the tuner
was working, as was everything else. The tuner healed itself
by sitting idle for a couple of weeks. Sometime later the
sound went out, and this time I just unplugged the unit
for a couple of days and, again the unit worked fine.
------------------------------------------------------------------

** That is called an \" intermittent fault \" in the repair business.

When the unit works fine most of the time, they are often near impossible to track down.


..... Phil

Indeed!

I use the \"Thump Test\" (patent pending) when dealing with intermittents
- it does turn up a fair percentage of bugs. Just today I spotted an
electrolytic cap that wiggled slightly when the case was lightly
thumped. Turned out one lead was not actually connected to the solder
(the joys of single sided PCBs), and the cap was a loose connection
causing other parts to fire (a strobe system) seemingly at random. This
was easy to fix, as it failed periodically, but only when tapped/thumped.

Other times not so lucky.

John :-#)#

 

[John Robertson]

On 2021/08/26 10:18 p.m., Phil Allison wrote:

root wrote:
=========
Sorry for jumping into a continuing thread, but I \'ve had trouble
with Onkyo an receiver, but I found a very interesting thing:
they can heal themselves. The tuner on my first Onkyo failed.
Since everything else worked I put the receiver aside and bought
a new Onkyo. After a couple of weeks I decided I wanted to swap
it out for a Denon. So I packed up the new Onkyo, and before
I could return it I went back to the old Onkyo and the tuner
was working, as was everything else. The tuner healed itself
by sitting idle for a couple of weeks. Sometime later the
sound went out, and this time I just unplugged the unit
for a couple of days and, again the unit worked fine.
------------------------------------------------------------------

** That is called an \" intermittent fault \" in the repair business.

When the unit works fine most of the time, they are often near impossible to track down.


..... Phil

Indeed!

I use the \"Thump Test\" (patent pending) when dealing with intermittents
- it does turn up a fair percentage of bugs. Just today I spotted an
electrolytic cap that wiggled slightly when the case was lightly
thumped. Turned out one lead was not actually connected to the solder
(the joys of single sided PCBs), and the cap was a loose connection
causing other parts to fire (a strobe system) seemingly at random. This
was easy to fix, as it failed periodically, but only when tapped/thumped.

Other times not so lucky.

John :-#)#

 

[Phil Allison]

John Robertson wrote:
=====================

I use the \"Thump Test\" (patent pending) when dealing with intermittents
- it does turn up a fair percentage of bugs. Just today I spotted an
electrolytic cap that wiggled slightly when the case was lightly
thumped. Turned out one lead was not actually connected to the solder
(the joys of single sided PCBs), and the cap was a loose connection
causing other parts to fire (a strobe system) seemingly at random. This
was easy to fix, as it failed periodically, but only when tapped/thumped.

--------------------------------------------

** That technique is known as \" percussive maintenance \".

Another technique is \" tune for maximum smoke\".
This involves a source of high current connected to a DC rail shorted to ground.
One increases the voltage gradually while looking for smoke signals.


..... Phil

 

[John Robertson]

On 2021/08/27 12:31 a.m., Phil Allison wrote:

John Robertson wrote:
=====================

I use the \"Thump Test\" (patent pending) when dealing with intermittents
- it does turn up a fair percentage of bugs. Just today I spotted an
electrolytic cap that wiggled slightly when the case was lightly
thumped. Turned out one lead was not actually connected to the solder
(the joys of single sided PCBs), and the cap was a loose connection
causing other parts to fire (a strobe system) seemingly at random. This
was easy to fix, as it failed periodically, but only when tapped/thumped.

--------------------------------------------


** That technique is known as \" percussive maintenance \".

Another technique is \" tune for maximum smoke\".
This involves a source of high current connected to a DC rail shorted to ground.
One increases the voltage gradually while looking for smoke signals.


.... Phil

We also use the \"dim light test\" where you put a light bulb in series
with the line input to the item under test. The light should not glow
brightly except for initial turn-on, where it would be brightish, then
dim as the caps charge.

Regulated power supplies are the technicians friend - where you can dial
up the current available...

John :-#)#


--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John\'s Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
\"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out.\"

 

[John Robertson]

On 2021/08/27 12:31 a.m., Phil Allison wrote:

John Robertson wrote:
=====================

I use the \"Thump Test\" (patent pending) when dealing with intermittents
- it does turn up a fair percentage of bugs. Just today I spotted an
electrolytic cap that wiggled slightly when the case was lightly
thumped. Turned out one lead was not actually connected to the solder
(the joys of single sided PCBs), and the cap was a loose connection
causing other parts to fire (a strobe system) seemingly at random. This
was easy to fix, as it failed periodically, but only when tapped/thumped.

--------------------------------------------


** That technique is known as \" percussive maintenance \".

Another technique is \" tune for maximum smoke\".
This involves a source of high current connected to a DC rail shorted to ground.
One increases the voltage gradually while looking for smoke signals.


.... Phil

We also use the \"dim light test\" where you put a light bulb in series
with the line input to the item under test. The light should not glow
brightly except for initial turn-on, where it would be brightish, then
dim as the caps charge.

Regulated power supplies are the technicians friend - where you can dial
up the current available...

John :-#)#


--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John\'s Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
\"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out.\"

 

[Chris K-Man]

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 11:45:48 AM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote:

On 2021/08/27 12:31 a.m., Phil Allison wrote:
John Robertson wrote:
=====================

I use the \"Thump Test\" (patent pending) when dealing with intermittents
- it does turn up a fair percentage of bugs. Just today I spotted an
electrolytic cap that wiggled slightly when the case was lightly
thumped. Turned out one lead was not actually connected to the solder
(the joys of single sided PCBs), and the cap was a loose connection
causing other parts to fire (a strobe system) seemingly at random. This
was easy to fix, as it failed periodically, but only when tapped/thumped.

--------------------------------------------


** That technique is known as \" percussive maintenance \".

Another technique is \" tune for maximum smoke\".
This involves a source of high current connected to a DC rail shorted to ground.
One increases the voltage gradually while looking for smoke signals.


.... Phil


We also use the \"dim light test\" where you put a light bulb in series
with the line input to the item under test. The light should not glow
brightly except for initial turn-on, where it would be brightish, then
dim as the caps charge.

Regulated power supplies are the technicians friend - where you can dial
up the current available...

John :-#)#


--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John\'s Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
\"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out.\"

______

So long story short: this lady and her brother lived next door to each
other on the same street. When he passed, she sold her property and
moved into his house. Included was this Onkyo receiver and CD player,
and about four pairs of speakers all over the house.

You can just about imagine what I thought when I went min back and
looked at how all of this was hooked up. The main speaker bus(A) is to the
pair in the dining room. Bus B is where it starts to get hairy: the left
speaker output goes to one of the speakers out on her deck, and the right
terminal, as well as the surrounds and center, all had at least TWO
SPEAKERS EACH hooked up to them!

Now she states that her brother ran it this way for years, and she just
continued using it when she inherited the house, and this mess. Neither
of them over drove it, just for background music from the built in tuner or
the CD changer.

So I explained to her that it was improper to havr more than one speaker
per terminal, let alone THREE, and that over time this affected the impedance,
and caused the Onkyo to eventually overheat and probably blow a fuse.
She says her brother worked in the stereo buisness for years. Hmmmm.

Sure enough, only one click after I turned it on, no delayed second click.

She said she doesn\'t care about \"surround sound\" and just wants to be
able to hear the radio or her CDs. So I said she could probably just find
ankther 10-15 year old receiver, plus a separate speaker sleector, and wire
up her whole house that way. Or, just runn speakers A in stereo in the
living room, speaker B left in e dining room, and speaker B right outside
on the deck.

 

[Chris K-Man]

On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 11:45:48 AM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote:

On 2021/08/27 12:31 a.m., Phil Allison wrote:
John Robertson wrote:
=====================

I use the \"Thump Test\" (patent pending) when dealing with intermittents
- it does turn up a fair percentage of bugs. Just today I spotted an
electrolytic cap that wiggled slightly when the case was lightly
thumped. Turned out one lead was not actually connected to the solder
(the joys of single sided PCBs), and the cap was a loose connection
causing other parts to fire (a strobe system) seemingly at random. This
was easy to fix, as it failed periodically, but only when tapped/thumped.

--------------------------------------------


** That technique is known as \" percussive maintenance \".

Another technique is \" tune for maximum smoke\".
This involves a source of high current connected to a DC rail shorted to ground.
One increases the voltage gradually while looking for smoke signals.


.... Phil


We also use the \"dim light test\" where you put a light bulb in series
with the line input to the item under test. The light should not glow
brightly except for initial turn-on, where it would be brightish, then
dim as the caps charge.

Regulated power supplies are the technicians friend - where you can dial
up the current available...

John :-#)#


--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John\'s Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
\"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out.\"

______

So long story short: this lady and her brother lived next door to each
other on the same street. When he passed, she sold her property and
moved into his house. Included was this Onkyo receiver and CD player,
and about four pairs of speakers all over the house.

You can just about imagine what I thought when I went min back and
looked at how all of this was hooked up. The main speaker bus(A) is to the
pair in the dining room. Bus B is where it starts to get hairy: the left
speaker output goes to one of the speakers out on her deck, and the right
terminal, as well as the surrounds and center, all had at least TWO
SPEAKERS EACH hooked up to them!

Now she states that her brother ran it this way for years, and she just
continued using it when she inherited the house, and this mess. Neither
of them over drove it, just for background music from the built in tuner or
the CD changer.

So I explained to her that it was improper to havr more than one speaker
per terminal, let alone THREE, and that over time this affected the impedance,
and caused the Onkyo to eventually overheat and probably blow a fuse.
She says her brother worked in the stereo buisness for years. Hmmmm.

Sure enough, only one click after I turned it on, no delayed second click.

She said she doesn\'t care about \"surround sound\" and just wants to be
able to hear the radio or her CDs. So I said she could probably just find
ankther 10-15 year old receiver, plus a separate speaker sleector, and wire
up her whole house that way. Or, just runn speakers A in stereo in the
living room, speaker B left in e dining room, and speaker B right outside
on the deck.

 

[Phil Allison]

John Robertson wrote:
===================

I use the \"Thump Test\" (patent pending) when dealing with intermittents
- it does turn up a fair percentage of bugs. Just today I spotted an
electrolytic cap that wiggled slightly when the case was lightly
thumped. Turned out one lead was not actually connected to the solder
(the joys of single sided PCBs), and the cap was a loose connection
causing other parts to fire (a strobe system) seemingly at random. This
was easy to fix, as it failed periodically, but only when tapped/thumped.

--------------------------------------------


** That technique is known as \" percussive maintenance \".

Another technique is \" tune for maximum smoke\".
This involves a source of high current connected to a DC rail shorted to ground.
One increases the voltage gradually while looking for smoke signals.



We also use the \"dim light test\" where you put a light bulb in series
with the line input to the item under test. The light should not glow
brightly except for initial turn-on, where it would be brightish, then
dim as the caps charge.

** That crude idea has very limited application.
The series resistance of the lamp plus the rather large voltage drop does not alloy many items to operate.

I use a Variac and a digital current meter when powering up anything on my bench.



...... Phil