NYC seeing worst air quality since 1960s, officials say. Global Warming Wildfires...

[Fred Bloggs]

They\'re not kidding. It smells and looks like the good old days when they were incinerating trash into the open air, and burning lots of unleaded fuel in 10 mpg guzzlers. This haze is much more diffuse, and doesn\'t seem to be producing the rainbow spectral decomposition of sunlight like 1960s-70s air pollution. There\'s also some kind of shredded something or another falling out of the sky, it\'s not ash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCWZojN_Kg

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

They\'re not kidding. It smells and looks like the good old days when they were incinerating trash into the open air, and burning lots of unleaded fuel in 10 mpg guzzlers. This haze is much more diffuse, and doesn\'t seem to be producing the rainbow spectral decomposition of sunlight like 1960s-70s air pollution. There\'s also some kind of shredded something or another falling out of the sky, it\'s not ash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCWZojN_Kg

Forest fires in Canada. It\'s bad in Mass too.

In many places, trees grow and they burn. That\'s not new. What\'s new
is using mass technology to put out lots of small fires so we can have
infrequent gigantic ones.

Not logging means more trees end their lives as smoke.

 

[Martin Rid]

John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> Wrote in message:r
> On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:>They\'re not kidding. It smells and looks like the good old days when they were incinerating trash into the open air, and burning lots of unleaded fuel in 10 mpg guzzlers. This haze is much more diffuse, and doesn\'t seem to be producing the rainbow spectral decomposition of sunlight like 1960s-70s air pollution. There\'s also some kind of shredded something or another falling out of the sky, it\'s not ash.>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCWZojN_KgForest fires in Canada. It\'s bad in Mass too.In many places, trees grow and they burn. That\'s not new. What\'s newis using mass technology to put out lots of small fires so we can haveinfrequent gigantic ones.Not logging means more trees end their lives as smoke.

I smells like living in Pennsylvania ;D
Or a mattress is burning.

Cheers
--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 21:11:17 -0400 (EDT), Martin Rid
<martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:

John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> Wrote in message:r
On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:>They\'re not kidding. It smells and looks like the good old days when they were incinerating trash into the open air, and burning lots of unleaded fuel in 10 mpg guzzlers. This haze is much more diffuse, and doesn\'t seem to be producing the rainbow spectral decomposition of sunlight like 1960s-70s air pollution. There\'s also some kind of shredded something or another falling out of the sky, it\'s not ash.>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCWZojN_KgForest fires in Canada. It\'s bad in Mass too.In many places, trees grow and they burn. That\'s not new. What\'s newis using mass technology to put out lots of small fires so we can haveinfrequent gigantic ones.Not logging means more trees end their lives as smoke.

I smells like living in Pennsylvania ;D
Or a mattress is burning.

Cheers

People aren\'t used to smoke nowadays. It was very common in past
millenia.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 9:26:22 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

They\'re not kidding. It smells and looks like the good old days when they were incinerating trash into the open air, and burning lots of unleaded fuel in 10 mpg guzzlers. This haze is much more diffuse, and doesn\'t seem to be producing the rainbow spectral decomposition of sunlight like 1960s-70s air pollution. There\'s also some kind of shredded something or another falling out of the sky, it\'s not ash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCWZojN_Kg
Forest fires in Canada. It\'s bad in Mass too.

In many places, trees grow and they burn. That\'s not new. What\'s new
is using mass technology to put out lots of small fires so we can have
infrequent gigantic ones.

Not logging means more trees end their lives as smoke.

John Larkin is out of date - or perhaps US forest management is.

Every winter we have \"fuel reduction burns\" around Sydney, when the forest is dry enough to burn, but not dry enough to sustain a bush-fire. Sometimes they end up burning a bit forest than they had planned, but never all that much. Global warming means that i recent years we have had one of two giant forest fires anyway, in areas that had never burnt before (or at least not when we were around to see it). The Australian aborigines have been doing fuel reduction burns for a few tens of thousands of years now, and the forest management authority has started copying some of their techniques.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 12:11:58 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 9:26:22 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

They\'re not kidding. It smells and looks like the good old days when they were incinerating trash into the open air, and burning lots of unleaded fuel in 10 mpg guzzlers. This haze is much more diffuse, and doesn\'t seem to be producing the rainbow spectral decomposition of sunlight like 1960s-70s air pollution. There\'s also some kind of shredded something or another falling out of the sky, it\'s not ash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCWZojN_Kg
Forest fires in Canada. It\'s bad in Mass too.

In many places, trees grow and they burn. That\'s not new. What\'s new
is using mass technology to put out lots of small fires so we can have
infrequent gigantic ones.

Not logging means more trees end their lives as smoke.
John Larkin is out of date - or perhaps US forest management is.

Every winter we have \"fuel reduction burns\" around Sydney, when the forest is dry enough to burn, but not dry enough to sustain a bush-fire. Sometimes they end up burning a bit forest than they had planned, but never all that much. Global warming means that i recent years we have had one of two giant forest fires anyway, in areas that had never burnt before (or at least not when we were around to see it). The Australian aborigines have been doing fuel reduction burns for a few tens of thousands of years now, and the forest management authority has started copying some of their techniques.

The jackasses need to manage regrowth in burn areas to keep those forest more natural, bigger trees, less competition for water and soil nutrients, better air circulation, greatly improved resistance to the infinitude of endemic blights that cause a lot of dead standing firewood, deeper shading to kill low growing dry shrubbery. It\'s MUCH easier to keep a forest thinned when you start in the sapling stage! Those jackasses in California just let the burned over areas rejuvenate on their own which become an impassible mess in 20 years. A forest is not a tree farm, where they deliberately crowd the trees to prevent lateral knot forming branches. Depending on species they need to thin those trees to up to 40 ft. spacing for the big hardwoods.

News has reported the fires in Nova Scotia were \"manmade\"- not saying arson- just yet. They also reported their fire service is using drones dropping sparklers to deliberately start \"backfires\" to clear zones for containing the bigger fire.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:26:22 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

They\'re not kidding. It smells and looks like the good old days when they were incinerating trash into the open air, and burning lots of unleaded fuel in 10 mpg guzzlers. This haze is much more diffuse, and doesn\'t seem to be producing the rainbow spectral decomposition of sunlight like 1960s-70s air pollution. There\'s also some kind of shredded something or another falling out of the sky, it\'s not ash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCWZojN_Kg
Forest fires in Canada. It\'s bad in Mass too.

In many places, trees grow and they burn. That\'s not new. What\'s new
is using mass technology to put out lots of small fires so we can have
infrequent gigantic ones.

Not logging means more trees end their lives as smoke.

The forests are becoming piles of firewood due to death from drought and disease, all due to global warming. All that stuff you\'ve been hearing about forest fires being beneficial is a load of crap.

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 10:11:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 12:11:58?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 9:26:22?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

They\'re not kidding. It smells and looks like the good old days when they were incinerating trash into the open air, and burning lots of unleaded fuel in 10 mpg guzzlers. This haze is much more diffuse, and doesn\'t seem to be producing the rainbow spectral decomposition of sunlight like 1960s-70s air pollution. There\'s also some kind of shredded something or another falling out of the sky, it\'s not ash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCWZojN_Kg
Forest fires in Canada. It\'s bad in Mass too.

In many places, trees grow and they burn. That\'s not new. What\'s new
is using mass technology to put out lots of small fires so we can have
infrequent gigantic ones.

Not logging means more trees end their lives as smoke.
John Larkin is out of date - or perhaps US forest management is.

Someone should point out to Sloman that the many fires in this case
are in Canada.

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 10:26:43 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:26:22?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

They\'re not kidding. It smells and looks like the good old days when they were incinerating trash into the open air, and burning lots of unleaded fuel in 10 mpg guzzlers. This haze is much more diffuse, and doesn\'t seem to be producing the rainbow spectral decomposition of sunlight like 1960s-70s air pollution. There\'s also some kind of shredded something or another falling out of the sky, it\'s not ash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCWZojN_Kg
Forest fires in Canada. It\'s bad in Mass too.

In many places, trees grow and they burn. That\'s not new. What\'s new
is using mass technology to put out lots of small fires so we can have
infrequent gigantic ones.

Not logging means more trees end their lives as smoke.

The forests are becoming piles of firewood due to death from drought and disease, all due to global warming. All that stuff you\'ve been hearing about forest fires being beneficial is a load of crap.

Forests keep growing and eventually the trees die and the wood has to
go somewhere. In a few places, like the Louisiana swamps, they settle
into the muck and decompose. In most places, they burn. That\'s been
going on since trees and lightning were invented.

Drought will, long term, reduce the number and intensity of forest
fires. There aren\'t many forest fires in a desert.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 2:41:59 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 10:26:43 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:26:22?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

They\'re not kidding. It smells and looks like the good old days when they were incinerating trash into the open air, and burning lots of unleaded fuel in 10 mpg guzzlers. This haze is much more diffuse, and doesn\'t seem to be producing the rainbow spectral decomposition of sunlight like 1960s-70s air pollution. There\'s also some kind of shredded something or another falling out of the sky, it\'s not ash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCWZojN_Kg
Forest fires in Canada. It\'s bad in Mass too.

In many places, trees grow and they burn. That\'s not new. What\'s new
is using mass technology to put out lots of small fires so we can have
infrequent gigantic ones.

Not logging means more trees end their lives as smoke.

The forests are becoming piles of firewood due to death from drought and disease, all due to global warming. All that stuff you\'ve been hearing about forest fires being beneficial is a load of crap.
Forests keep growing and eventually the trees die and the wood has to
go somewhere. In a few places, like the Louisiana swamps, they settle
into the muck and decompose. In most places, they burn. That\'s been
going on since trees and lightning were invented.

Drought will, long term, reduce the number and intensity of forest
fires. There aren\'t many forest fires in a desert.

That\'s not how it works. Trees don\'t die, they \"decline.\" The decline can last for quite a while, and then they turn into snags.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-07/snags-the_wildlife_tree-1.pdf

The snag eventually topples and falls to the ground, and that could take decades. The microbial ecosystem of the forest floor composts the remaining tree. The snag is not green wood and fuel. In natural forests, there is not enough fuel in the understory to turn trees into torches like we see in these poorly managed areas of California. The natural fire just races through and burns up the ground cover grasses, it doesn\'t hang around for long.

The timber industry has ruined all the forests in the west. They did this for profit. They subscribe to the inexhaustible Earth belief. The only thing inexhaustible about Earth is the supply of fools.

https://www.opb.org/article/2020/10/31/logging-wildfire-forest-management/

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 15:51:03 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 2:41:59?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 10:26:43 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:26:22?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

They\'re not kidding. It smells and looks like the good old days when they were incinerating trash into the open air, and burning lots of unleaded fuel in 10 mpg guzzlers. This haze is much more diffuse, and doesn\'t seem to be producing the rainbow spectral decomposition of sunlight like 1960s-70s air pollution. There\'s also some kind of shredded something or another falling out of the sky, it\'s not ash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCWZojN_Kg
Forest fires in Canada. It\'s bad in Mass too.

In many places, trees grow and they burn. That\'s not new. What\'s new
is using mass technology to put out lots of small fires so we can have
infrequent gigantic ones.

Not logging means more trees end their lives as smoke.

The forests are becoming piles of firewood due to death from drought and disease, all due to global warming. All that stuff you\'ve been hearing about forest fires being beneficial is a load of crap.
Forests keep growing and eventually the trees die and the wood has to
go somewhere. In a few places, like the Louisiana swamps, they settle
into the muck and decompose. In most places, they burn. That\'s been
going on since trees and lightning were invented.

Drought will, long term, reduce the number and intensity of forest
fires. There aren\'t many forest fires in a desert.

That\'s not how it works. Trees don\'t die, they \"decline.\" The decline can last for quite a while, and then they turn into snags.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-07/snags-the_wildlife_tree-1.pdf

The snag eventually topples and falls to the ground, and that could take decades. The microbial ecosystem of the forest floor composts the remaining tree. The snag is not green wood and fuel. In natural forests, there is not enough fuel in the understory to turn trees into torches like we see in these poorly managed areas of California. The natural fire just races through and burns up the ground cover grasses, it doesn\'t hang around for long.

Unless people with hoses and airplanes keep putting out the small
fires. The brush accumulates and we get firestorms that burn
everything.

In pre-columbian times, each bit of California forest burned about
every 10 years. That took out the small stuff and left the big trees.
Now we get monster firestorms every 100 years.

Smokey The Bear (we used to sing his song in grammar school) has been
retired. Actually, we never understood that, since there were no
forest fires in southern Louisiana.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 7:04:56 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 15:51:03 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 2:41:59?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 10:26:43 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:26:22?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

They\'re not kidding. It smells and looks like the good old days when they were incinerating trash into the open air, and burning lots of unleaded fuel in 10 mpg guzzlers. This haze is much more diffuse, and doesn\'t seem to be producing the rainbow spectral decomposition of sunlight like 1960s-70s air pollution. There\'s also some kind of shredded something or another falling out of the sky, it\'s not ash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCWZojN_Kg
Forest fires in Canada. It\'s bad in Mass too.

In many places, trees grow and they burn. That\'s not new. What\'s new
is using mass technology to put out lots of small fires so we can have
infrequent gigantic ones.

Not logging means more trees end their lives as smoke.

The forests are becoming piles of firewood due to death from drought and disease, all due to global warming. All that stuff you\'ve been hearing about forest fires being beneficial is a load of crap.
Forests keep growing and eventually the trees die and the wood has to
go somewhere. In a few places, like the Louisiana swamps, they settle
into the muck and decompose. In most places, they burn. That\'s been
going on since trees and lightning were invented.

Drought will, long term, reduce the number and intensity of forest
fires. There aren\'t many forest fires in a desert.

That\'s not how it works. Trees don\'t die, they \"decline.\" The decline can last for quite a while, and then they turn into snags.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-07/snags-the_wildlife_tree-1.pdf

The snag eventually topples and falls to the ground, and that could take decades. The microbial ecosystem of the forest floor composts the remaining tree. The snag is not green wood and fuel. In natural forests, there is not enough fuel in the understory to turn trees into torches like we see in these poorly managed areas of California. The natural fire just races through and burns up the ground cover grasses, it doesn\'t hang around for long.
Unless people with hoses and airplanes keep putting out the small
fires. The brush accumulates and we get firestorms that burn
everything.

In pre-columbian times, each bit of California forest burned about
every 10 years. That took out the small stuff and left the big trees.
Now we get monster firestorms every 100 years.

Smokey The Bear (we used to sing his song in grammar school) has been
retired. Actually, we never understood that, since there were no
forest fires in southern Louisiana.

Whoever told you all that is an idiot. You don\'t get large brush in natural forest. You only get grasses. It was the timbering clearcutting that allowed the big brush to propagate. The forest doesn\'t need any help from mankind to flourish.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 4:34:34 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 10:11:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 12:11:58?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 9:26:22?AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

They\'re not kidding. It smells and looks like the good old days when they were incinerating trash into the open air, and burning lots of unleaded fuel in 10 mpg guzzlers. This haze is much more diffuse, and doesn\'t seem to be producing the rainbow spectral decomposition of sunlight like 1960s-70s air pollution. There\'s also some kind of shredded something or another falling out of the sky, it\'s not ash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCWZojN_Kg
Forest fires in Canada. It\'s bad in Mass too.

In many places, trees grow and they burn. That\'s not new.

Not logging means more trees end their lives as smoke.

John Larkin is out of date - or perhaps US forest management is.

Someone should point out to Sloman that the many fires in this case are in Canada.

\" What\'s new is using mass technology to put out lots of small fires so we can have infrequent gigantic ones. \"

John Larkin\'s \"we\" is American, not Canadian. There are actually Australian fire-fighters in Canada at the moment, so maybe they are educating their Canadian opposite numbers. They may be more educable than the Californian equivalents, who have also used Australian help. If John Larkin is a representative sample of Californian educability one can\'t be optimistic.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 16:13:19 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 7:04:56?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 15:51:03 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 2:41:59?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 10:26:43 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:26:22?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

They\'re not kidding. It smells and looks like the good old days when they were incinerating trash into the open air, and burning lots of unleaded fuel in 10 mpg guzzlers. This haze is much more diffuse, and doesn\'t seem to be producing the rainbow spectral decomposition of sunlight like 1960s-70s air pollution. There\'s also some kind of shredded something or another falling out of the sky, it\'s not ash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCWZojN_Kg
Forest fires in Canada. It\'s bad in Mass too.

In many places, trees grow and they burn. That\'s not new. What\'s new
is using mass technology to put out lots of small fires so we can have
infrequent gigantic ones.

Not logging means more trees end their lives as smoke.

The forests are becoming piles of firewood due to death from drought and disease, all due to global warming. All that stuff you\'ve been hearing about forest fires being beneficial is a load of crap.
Forests keep growing and eventually the trees die and the wood has to
go somewhere. In a few places, like the Louisiana swamps, they settle
into the muck and decompose. In most places, they burn. That\'s been
going on since trees and lightning were invented.

Drought will, long term, reduce the number and intensity of forest
fires. There aren\'t many forest fires in a desert.

That\'s not how it works. Trees don\'t die, they \"decline.\" The decline can last for quite a while, and then they turn into snags.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-07/snags-the_wildlife_tree-1.pdf

The snag eventually topples and falls to the ground, and that could take decades. The microbial ecosystem of the forest floor composts the remaining tree. The snag is not green wood and fuel. In natural forests, there is not enough fuel in the understory to turn trees into torches like we see in these poorly managed areas of California. The natural fire just races through and burns up the ground cover grasses, it doesn\'t hang around for long.
Unless people with hoses and airplanes keep putting out the small
fires. The brush accumulates and we get firestorms that burn
everything.

In pre-columbian times, each bit of California forest burned about
every 10 years. That took out the small stuff and left the big trees.
Now we get monster firestorms every 100 years.

Smokey The Bear (we used to sing his song in grammar school) has been
retired. Actually, we never understood that, since there were no
forest fires in southern Louisiana.

Whoever told you all that is an idiot. You don\'t get large brush in natural forest. You only get grasses. It was the timbering clearcutting that allowed the big brush to propagate. The forest doesn\'t need any help from mankind to flourish.

Have you ever seen manzanita? It\'s an astonishing plant. When it\'s hot
and dry, the leaves all fall off and most of the branches turn to
brittle, crazy flammible dead sticks with just a thread of live stuff
snaking around on the outside. When it rains in winter, the live part
spreads around the dead sticks and it looks like a normal live branch,
which it mostly isn\'t.

In our place in Truckee, we have lots of manzanita and lots of small
trees and no grass. We do get interesting popups like mules\' ears in
the spring, after the snow melts.

https://calscape.org/Wyethia-mollis-(Mule-Ears)?srchcr=sc57ed775d88b0c

Aside from being paved in kindling, there are California forests that
have 10 times the tree density that they naturally had a century ago.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 11:42:40 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 16:13:19 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 7:04:56?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 15:51:03 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 2:41:59?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 10:26:43 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:26:22?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

> Aside from being paved in kindling, there are California forests that have 10 times the tree density that they naturally had a century ago.

So they aren\'t being carefully managed.That\'s just incompetence.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 9:42:40 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 16:13:19 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 7:04:56?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 15:51:03 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 2:41:59?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 10:26:43 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:26:22?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

They\'re not kidding. It smells and looks like the good old days when they were incinerating trash into the open air, and burning lots of unleaded fuel in 10 mpg guzzlers. This haze is much more diffuse, and doesn\'t seem to be producing the rainbow spectral decomposition of sunlight like 1960s-70s air pollution. There\'s also some kind of shredded something or another falling out of the sky, it\'s not ash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCWZojN_Kg
Forest fires in Canada. It\'s bad in Mass too.

In many places, trees grow and they burn. That\'s not new. What\'s new
is using mass technology to put out lots of small fires so we can have
infrequent gigantic ones.

Not logging means more trees end their lives as smoke.

The forests are becoming piles of firewood due to death from drought and disease, all due to global warming. All that stuff you\'ve been hearing about forest fires being beneficial is a load of crap.
Forests keep growing and eventually the trees die and the wood has to
go somewhere. In a few places, like the Louisiana swamps, they settle
into the muck and decompose. In most places, they burn. That\'s been
going on since trees and lightning were invented.

Drought will, long term, reduce the number and intensity of forest
fires. There aren\'t many forest fires in a desert.

That\'s not how it works. Trees don\'t die, they \"decline.\" The decline can last for quite a while, and then they turn into snags.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-07/snags-the_wildlife_tree-1.pdf

The snag eventually topples and falls to the ground, and that could take decades. The microbial ecosystem of the forest floor composts the remaining tree. The snag is not green wood and fuel. In natural forests, there is not enough fuel in the understory to turn trees into torches like we see in these poorly managed areas of California. The natural fire just races through and burns up the ground cover grasses, it doesn\'t hang around for long.
Unless people with hoses and airplanes keep putting out the small
fires. The brush accumulates and we get firestorms that burn
everything.

In pre-columbian times, each bit of California forest burned about
every 10 years. That took out the small stuff and left the big trees.
Now we get monster firestorms every 100 years.

Smokey The Bear (we used to sing his song in grammar school) has been
retired. Actually, we never understood that, since there were no
forest fires in southern Louisiana.

Whoever told you all that is an idiot. You don\'t get large brush in natural forest. You only get grasses. It was the timbering clearcutting that allowed the big brush to propagate. The forest doesn\'t need any help from mankind to flourish.
Have you ever seen manzanita? It\'s an astonishing plant. When it\'s hot
and dry, the leaves all fall off and most of the branches turn to
brittle, crazy flammible dead sticks with just a thread of live stuff
snaking around on the outside. When it rains in winter, the live part
spreads around the dead sticks and it looks like a normal live branch,
which it mostly isn\'t.

Most very slow growing species like that have very dense wood and therefore burn longer and hotter.

Pine stands and their needle drop make the soil very acidic which excludes growth of most grasses which need neutral to alkaline soil pH.

Pine is fine except for the CO2 sequestration. I can\'t find a single comprehensive reference, but whatever kind of pine they have in that heavily forested area of Maine has been estimated to sequester 0.5 metric ton CO2 per annum per acre. Compare that to mature oak stands which have been estimated to sequester 14 metric ton CO2 per annum per acre, and you can see how weak pine is. But CO2 sequestration isn\'t everything, there are probably very essential ecological reasons pine exists other than wood pulp production on land that has been ruined by ruinous agricultural practices.

In our place in Truckee, we have lots of manzanita and lots of small
trees and no grass. We do get interesting popups like mules\' ears in
the spring, after the snow melts.

https://calscape.org/Wyethia-mollis-(Mule-Ears)?srchcr=sc57ed775d88b0c

Aside from being paved in kindling, there are California forests that
have 10 times the tree density that they naturally had a century ago.

Right, the 19th and 20th century apes ruined them.

California is going in big for commercial cross-laminated timber construction.

https://www.apawood.org/cross-laminated-timber

The industry has been claiming these will not burn. BUT only time will tell when it comes to construction materials. If one of these goes up, it will be unstoppable.

https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/high-rise-mass-timber-structures-cleared-for-california/

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 9 Jun 2023 10:04:34 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 9:42:40?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 16:13:19 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 7:04:56?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 15:51:03 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 2:41:59?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 10:26:43 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:26:22?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

They\'re not kidding. It smells and looks like the good old days when they were incinerating trash into the open air, and burning lots of unleaded fuel in 10 mpg guzzlers. This haze is much more diffuse, and doesn\'t seem to be producing the rainbow spectral decomposition of sunlight like 1960s-70s air pollution. There\'s also some kind of shredded something or another falling out of the sky, it\'s not ash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJCWZojN_Kg
Forest fires in Canada. It\'s bad in Mass too.

In many places, trees grow and they burn. That\'s not new. What\'s new
is using mass technology to put out lots of small fires so we can have
infrequent gigantic ones.

Not logging means more trees end their lives as smoke.

The forests are becoming piles of firewood due to death from drought and disease, all due to global warming. All that stuff you\'ve been hearing about forest fires being beneficial is a load of crap.
Forests keep growing and eventually the trees die and the wood has to
go somewhere. In a few places, like the Louisiana swamps, they settle
into the muck and decompose. In most places, they burn. That\'s been
going on since trees and lightning were invented.

Drought will, long term, reduce the number and intensity of forest
fires. There aren\'t many forest fires in a desert.

That\'s not how it works. Trees don\'t die, they \"decline.\" The decline can last for quite a while, and then they turn into snags.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-07/snags-the_wildlife_tree-1.pdf

The snag eventually topples and falls to the ground, and that could take decades. The microbial ecosystem of the forest floor composts the remaining tree. The snag is not green wood and fuel. In natural forests, there is not enough fuel in the understory to turn trees into torches like we see in these poorly managed areas of California. The natural fire just races through and burns up the ground cover grasses, it doesn\'t hang around for long.
Unless people with hoses and airplanes keep putting out the small
fires. The brush accumulates and we get firestorms that burn
everything.

In pre-columbian times, each bit of California forest burned about
every 10 years. That took out the small stuff and left the big trees.
Now we get monster firestorms every 100 years.

Smokey The Bear (we used to sing his song in grammar school) has been
retired. Actually, we never understood that, since there were no
forest fires in southern Louisiana.

Whoever told you all that is an idiot. You don\'t get large brush in natural forest. You only get grasses. It was the timbering clearcutting that allowed the big brush to propagate. The forest doesn\'t need any help from mankind to flourish.
Have you ever seen manzanita? It\'s an astonishing plant. When it\'s hot
and dry, the leaves all fall off and most of the branches turn to
brittle, crazy flammible dead sticks with just a thread of live stuff
snaking around on the outside. When it rains in winter, the live part
spreads around the dead sticks and it looks like a normal live branch,
which it mostly isn\'t.

Most very slow growing species like that have very dense wood and therefore burn longer and hotter.

Pine stands and their needle drop make the soil very acidic which excludes growth of most grasses which need neutral to alkaline soil pH.

Yes, the blanket of needles strangles the small stuff. We have to
clear the needles near the cabin because they are flammible too.

Pine is fine except for the CO2 sequestration. I can\'t find a single comprehensive reference, but whatever kind of pine they have in that heavily forested area of Maine has been estimated to sequester 0.5 metric ton CO2 per annum per acre. Compare that to mature oak stands which have been estimated to sequester 14 metric ton CO2 per annum per acre, and you can see how weak pine is. But CO2 sequestration isn\'t everything, there are probably very essential ecological reasons pine exists other than wood pulp production on land that has been ruined by ruinous agricultural practices.

Sequestration here is temporary, until the trees burn.

In our place in Truckee, we have lots of manzanita and lots of small
trees and no grass. We do get interesting popups like mules\' ears in
the spring, after the snow melts.

https://calscape.org/Wyethia-mollis-(Mule-Ears)?srchcr=sc57ed775d88b0c

Aside from being paved in kindling, there are California forests that
have 10 times the tree density that they naturally had a century ago.

Right, the 19th and 20th century apes ruined them.

Apes with aerial tankers dumping flame retardants.

California is going in big for commercial cross-laminated timber construction.

https://www.apawood.org/cross-laminated-timber

The industry has been claiming these will not burn. BUT only time will tell when it comes to construction materials. If one of these goes up, it will be unstoppable.

https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/high-rise-mass-timber-structures-cleared-for-california/

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 3:34:30 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 9 Jun 2023 10:04:34 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 9:42:40?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 16:13:19 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 7:04:56?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 15:51:03 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 2:41:59?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 10:26:43 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:26:22?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:43:50 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

Pine stands and their needle drop make the soil very acidic which excludes growth of most grasses which need neutral to alkaline soil pH.

Yes, the blanket of needles strangles the small stuff. We have to clear the needles near the cabin because they are flammable too.

Pine is fine except for the CO2 sequestration. I can\'t find a single comprehensive reference, but whatever kind of pine they have in that heavily forested area of Maine has been estimated to sequester 0.5 metric ton CO2 per annum per acre. Compare that to mature oak stands which have been estimated to sequester 14 metric ton CO2 per annum per acre, and you can see how weak pine is. But CO2 sequestration isn\'t everything, there are probably very essential ecological reasons pine exists other than wood pulp production on land that has been ruined by ruinous agricultural practices.

Sequestration here is temporary, until the trees burn.

They don\'t burn completely, or anything like it.

<snip>

Aside from being paved in kindling, there are California forests that have 10 times the tree density that they naturally had a century ago.

Right, the 19th and 20th century apes ruined them.

Apes with aerial tankers dumping flame retardants.

That what happens after you\'ve got a full-fledged forest fire burning. Fuel reduction burns don\'t need that kind of expensive attention, if you\'ve got enough sense to do them in winter.

California is going in big for commercial cross-laminated timber construction.

https://www.apawood.org/cross-laminated-timber

The industry has been claiming these will not burn. BUT only time will tell when it comes to construction materials. If one of these goes up, it will be unstoppable.

Why would you think that? In practice fire regulations concentrate on sustaining the structural integrity of the building for long enough to let people get out.

> >https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/high-rise-mass-timber-structures-cleared-for-california/

Sound sensible. Even steel will burn if you get it hot enough, and you can protect it - for a bit - with a layer of wood.

https://www.progressivematerials.com.au/structural-steel-fire-protection/

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney