Numbers Behind Bird Friendly Solar Thermal

[Bret Cahill]

Googlemap "Ivanpah" to see tens of thousands of tracking mirrors in a 2 km dia farm.

Use these ballpark numbers:

mirror dimensions: 3 m X 3 m

ave. distance of mirrors from receiver: 600 m

angular velocity of the sun: 0.004 degrees /sec

ave. bird size: 1 m

ave. bird speed: 10 m/sec

ave. bird acceleration: 1 m/sec^2

% reduction of radiation required to save the bird: 80%

This problem isn't nearly as difficult as missile defense / bird hunting.

All that is necessary is to give some mirrors some advance time to defocus, move the beams 0.3 degrees perpendicular to and out of the bird's flight path.

The powerplant may already have a rapid defocusing system in place anyway for other safety reasons, overheated boiler or load leveling that is possibly independent of the primary tracking system.


Bret Cahill

 

On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 10:13:22 AM UTC-8, Bret Cahill wrote:

Googlemap "Ivanpah" to see tens of thousands of tracking mirrors in a 2 km dia farm.



Use these ballpark numbers:



mirror dimensions: 3 m X 3 m



ave. distance of mirrors from receiver: 600 m



angular velocity of the sun: 0.004 degrees /sec



ave. bird size: 1 m



ave. bird speed: 10 m/sec



ave. bird acceleration: 1 m/sec^2



% reduction of radiation required to save the bird: 80%



This problem isn't nearly as difficult as missile defense / bird hunting.



All that is necessary is to give some mirrors some advance time to defocus, move the beams 0.3 degrees perpendicular to and out of the bird's flight path.



The powerplant may already have a rapid defocusing system in place anyway for other safety reasons, overheated boiler or load leveling that is possibly independent of the primary tracking system.





Bret Cahill

How many birds are we talking about here? 1000/day? 1/day?

 

[Bret Cahill]

Googlemap "Ivanpah" to see tens of thousands of tracking mirrors in a 2 km dia farm.







Use these ballpark numbers:







mirror dimensions: 3 m X 3 m







ave. distance of mirrors from receiver: 600 m







angular velocity of the sun: 0.004 degrees /sec







ave. bird size: 1 m







ave. bird speed: 10 m/sec







ave. bird acceleration: 1 m/sec^2







% reduction of radiation required to save the bird: 80%







This problem isn't nearly as difficult as missile defense / bird hunting.







All that is necessary is to give some mirrors some advance time to defocus, move the beams 0.3 degrees perpendicular to and out of the bird's flight path.







The powerplant may already have a rapid defocusing system in place anyway for other safety reasons, overheated boiler or load leveling that is possibly independent of the primary tracking system.











Bret Cahill





How many birds are we talking about here? 1000/day? 1/day?

Maybe dozens, nothing honest birders worry about. This is something a winger got off of the Watts Up With That denier site.

Still it's an interesting academic problem.

80 km/hr winds are common in the Mojave so we know the tracking system in each of the 170,000 mirrors is geared way down to keep the mirror from being moved by the wind.

Without researching [cheating] do you think the original control system can be adapted to avoid birds w/o any hardware changes other than the addition of the radar/sonar?


Bret Cahill

 

On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:28:25 PM UTC-8, Bret Cahill wrote:

Googlemap "Ivanpah" to see tens of thousands of tracking mirrors in a 2 km dia farm.















Use these ballpark numbers:















mirror dimensions: 3 m X 3 m















ave. distance of mirrors from receiver: 600 m















angular velocity of the sun: 0.004 degrees /sec















ave. bird size: 1 m















ave. bird speed: 10 m/sec















ave. bird acceleration: 1 m/sec^2















% reduction of radiation required to save the bird: 80%















This problem isn't nearly as difficult as missile defense / bird hunting.















All that is necessary is to give some mirrors some advance time to defocus, move the beams 0.3 degrees perpendicular to and out of the bird's flight path.















The powerplant may already have a rapid defocusing system in place anyway for other safety reasons, overheated boiler or load leveling that is possibly independent of the primary tracking system.























Bret Cahill











How many birds are we talking about here? 1000/day? 1/day?



Maybe dozens, nothing honest birders worry about. This is something a winger got off of the Watts Up With That denier site.



Still it's an interesting academic problem.



80 km/hr winds are common in the Mojave so we know the tracking system in each of the 170,000 mirrors is geared way down to keep the mirror from being moved by the wind.



Without researching [cheating] do you think the original control system can be adapted to avoid birds w/o any hardware changes other than the addition of the radar/sonar?





Bret Cahill

Dozens... implies more than one dozen, so at least 24 birds/day, huh.

Without knowing anything about the hardware specs? Nope.

Bonus points for having your software recognize a bird, versus say aircraft.

Michael

 

On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:28:25 PM UTC-8, Bret Cahill wrote:

Googlemap "Ivanpah" to see tens of thousands of tracking mirrors in a 2 km dia farm.















Use these ballpark numbers:















mirror dimensions: 3 m X 3 m















ave. distance of mirrors from receiver: 600 m















angular velocity of the sun: 0.004 degrees /sec















ave. bird size: 1 m















ave. bird speed: 10 m/sec















ave. bird acceleration: 1 m/sec^2















% reduction of radiation required to save the bird: 80%















This problem isn't nearly as difficult as missile defense / bird hunting.















All that is necessary is to give some mirrors some advance time to defocus, move the beams 0.3 degrees perpendicular to and out of the bird's flight path.















The powerplant may already have a rapid defocusing system in place anyway for other safety reasons, overheated boiler or load leveling that is possibly independent of the primary tracking system.























Bret Cahill











How many birds are we talking about here? 1000/day? 1/day?



Maybe dozens, nothing honest birders worry about. This is something a winger got off of the Watts Up With That denier site.



Still it's an interesting academic problem.



80 km/hr winds are common in the Mojave so we know the tracking system in each of the 170,000 mirrors is geared way down to keep the mirror from being moved by the wind.



Without researching [cheating] do you think the original control system can be adapted to avoid birds w/o any hardware changes other than the addition of the radar/sonar?





Bret Cahill

So... you'd need a radar system capable of detecting the location and velocity of birds. How much would that cost?

I suppose you could divide the mirrors into say four large groups. For example, If a bird arrives from the east, have the western mirrors (which are pointing east, say) re-direct their light.

What do you do if you have birds approaching from both the east and west though?

 

[Bret Cahill]

> So... you'd need a radar system capable of detecting the location and velocity of birds. How much would that cost?

Not much compared to a 2 billion plant but more than what a few dozen birds are worth.

With 170,000 mirrors they may already be using some kind of target/feedback system to keep the mirrors properly positioned. This could eliminate a lot of individual programming for each location.

I suppose you could divide the mirrors into say four large groups. For example, If a bird arrives from the east, have the western mirrors (which are pointing east, say) re-direct their light.

What do you do if you have birds approaching from both the east and west though?

The ones flying South in the spring or North in the fall are obviously confused and probably wouldn't survive anyway.

So ignore those birds.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:51:21 -0800 (PST), mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:28:25 PM UTC-8, Bret Cahill wrote:
Googlemap "Ivanpah" to see tens of thousands of tracking mirrors in a 2 km dia farm.















Use these ballpark numbers:















mirror dimensions: 3 m X 3 m















ave. distance of mirrors from receiver: 600 m















angular velocity of the sun: 0.004 degrees /sec















ave. bird size: 1 m















ave. bird speed: 10 m/sec















ave. bird acceleration: 1 m/sec^2















% reduction of radiation required to save the bird: 80%















This problem isn't nearly as difficult as missile defense / bird hunting.















All that is necessary is to give some mirrors some advance time to defocus, move the beams 0.3 degrees perpendicular to and out of the bird's flight path.















The powerplant may already have a rapid defocusing system in place anyway for other safety reasons, overheated boiler or load leveling that is possibly independent of the primary tracking system.























Bret Cahill











How many birds are we talking about here? 1000/day? 1/day?



Maybe dozens, nothing honest birders worry about. This is something a winger got off of the Watts Up With That denier site.



Still it's an interesting academic problem.



80 km/hr winds are common in the Mojave so we know the tracking system in each of the 170,000 mirrors is geared way down to keep the mirror from being moved by the wind.



Without researching [cheating] do you think the original control system can be adapted to avoid birds w/o any hardware changes other than the addition of the radar/sonar?





Bret Cahill


So... you'd need a radar system capable of detecting the location and velocity of birds. How much would that cost?

I suppose you could divide the mirrors into say four large groups. For example, If a bird arrives from the east, have the western mirrors (which are pointing east, say) re-direct their light.

What do you do if you have birds approaching from both the east and west though?

Put a small explosive charge on each mirror and splatter the ones that might hit
the birds. Reaction time will be fast, you don't have to redesign the tracking
drives, and there are longterm economic benefits as well.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation